
Show Summary
In this episode of the Real Estate Pros Podcast, host Michelle Kesil speaks with Melissa Darnay, a real estate agent in Panama, about the booming real estate market in the country. Melissa shares her personal journey to Panama, the reasons why it is an attractive place for investment, and the challenges faced by expats. The conversation also covers the current state of the real estate market, investment opportunities, and how Melissa’s brokerage connects with clients. The episode concludes with insights on the future prospects of real estate in Panama.
Resources and Links from this show:
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- Investor Fuel Real Estate Mastermind
- Investor Machine Real Estate Lead Generation
- Mike on Facebook
- Mike on Instagram
- Mike on LinkedIn
- Choose Panama Real Estate’s Website
- Choose Panama Real Estate on Facebook
- Choose Panama Real Estate on Instagram
- Choose Panama Real Estate on Youtube
- Choose Panama Real Estate on Podcast
Listen to the Audio Version of this Episode
Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
Melissa Darnay (00:00)
And you know, when people look at things, just look at purchase price. And I think that’s what our brains have been trained to do. And they don’t even think about those carrying costs. But that is where Panama shines. You know, if you compare buying something in Panama to buying something in North Dakota, you know, we might be more expensive. But first of all, it’s not beachfront.So if you compare apples to apples and make sure it’s beachfront and then put those other things in also because we’re just sort of pouring the gas on what’s going on in Panama. And right now, like I said, the catalyst is just happening. So people who are getting in right now, they’re not only going to see return on investments from year over year rentals, but they’re also going to see appreciation.
Michelle Kesil (02:20)
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Real Estate Pros Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Kesil. Today I’m joined by someone I’m looking forward to chatting with, Melissa Darnay, who is a estate agent in Panama.Melissa Darnay (02:20)
Yes. Hi, how are you? Greetings from Panama. Excited to have you here. I think that our listeners are really going to take some ink away from how you’re approaching why Panama is a greatMichelle Kesil (02:36)
Awesome. Excited to have you here. I think that our listeners are really going to take some ink away from how you’re approaching sharing Panama is a great placeMichelle Kesil (02:46)
to invest in. So let’s dive in.Melissa Darnay (02:49)
Great. You know, I’ve been in Panama since 2012. It was sort of a happy accident for me. I didn’t really mean to get, you know, be here all this time. I came because I wanted a little bit of adventure and I wanted to live on the ocean. And then I found I found my place I found my people. And in doing so I started doing real estate pretty much, you know, day three of landing here and have has I’ve built areal estate company that’s a very concierge type company. So we do real estate and vacation rentals. And it’s been amazing. I’ve got to meet people from around the world.
Right now, one of the reasons it’s so good to that Panama’s booming, because it hasn’t always been this way since I’ve been here, but so many people are looking for a plan B. So they’re looking for something that’s in a dollarized economy, that’s safe politically, that they can say, okay, I’m not going to live there full time, but I want it to pay for itself. And I want to be able to live there if I ever needed to. And that is where Panama really shines.
You know, our water is safe to drink, the economy is super stable, politically again, it’s super stable. And there are people from around the world. So it’s, it’s a great place to think about if it’s not on your radar yet.
Michelle Kesil (04:09)
Awesome. And so why specifically was Panama like the place that youMelissa Darnay (04:09)
Like I said, it was a happy accident. I’d been to about 30 different countries and I just happened to come here right about the time that I needed an adventure in my life. So, you know, it was one of those things I had come here, saw the beautiful sparkling blue ocean and thought, you know what, there’s something wrong. I was living in Dallas at the time.And Dallas gets really cold winters and in 2012 we had that we hosted the Super Bowl. And it was basically iced in. So I couldn’t go to the Super Bowl. I had tickets to these VIP parties, couldn’t go. And then that summer was one of the hottest on record. Dallas gets to be, 115, 120 on bad days, 100, 105 on normal days. And I just one day I’d had enough. I wanted better weather. I wanted more natural beauty.
So again, I just moved kind of lock, stock and wine barrel myself and my two dogs to Panama, not thinking, is this going to be forever? Is this going to be for how long? I just thought, you know what? I need a little adventure. I’m going to do it for as long as it makes sense. So here I am 14 years later, still in Panama. And at this point I’m here. I’m never leaving. I love it so much.
Michelle Kesil (06:14)
Awesome. And so are you supporting more people that are from the US to buy real estate in Panama, or is it also like a local endeavor as well?Melissa Darnay (06:27)
No, 100 % of our clients are expats. So people that are not from Panama, they’re English speaking expats. I’ve been here, I knew no Spanish when I moved here. I’ve gotten better. I’m now conversational, but I’m still not fluent.So we do focus on the English speaking expat market. Obviously I’m American, US is so close, it’s an easy flight. So a good portion of our clients are Americans, but not necessarily 100%.
Michelle Kesil (06:55)
Awesome. What would you say are the biggest challenges of living in Panama?Melissa Darnay (06:55)
The biggest challenge, know, so many things are easier. There are things that I miss, you know, so for example, right now you can probably get either same day or maybe next day from Amazon. We can’t, we have to wait a week. So that can be a challenge. The food here, you know, when you import food, it’s more expensive. So some of my favorite snacks like wheat thins or triscuits.be more expensive than what you pay. But then on the flip side, the local produce that you might pay so much for is very cheap here, as well as fresh fish. We get fresh seafood that’s like literally just out of the ocean that morning, you know, for a dollar or two dollars a fish. So it’s pretty amazing.
Michelle Kesil (07:42)
Definitely. And what would you say as far as real estate goes? How is the market growing there?Melissa Darnay (07:50)
The market right now is pretty booming. For any market to either grow or contract, you have to have a catalyst. So that happened to me when I was living in Northern California, the market expanded due to the dot com boom, and that caused prices to go way up. The same thing happened in Dallas when a lot of the corporate headquarters moved into Dallas. Dallas had been very flat for like 15 years, and then all of a sudden it had a boom.Right now, Panama has done a couple of things to really position itself as the leader in Latin America. One of those is it has not only the Panama Canal, but it has it just expanded the International Airport, making it a gateway for all of Latin America. So by expanding that airport and doubling traffic and tripling the number of passengers it can accommodate, you know, that was very forward thinking. The other thing it did is it just
finished a cruise ship terminal where it can process two of those great big gigantic ships and 10,000 passengers a day. With that increased tourism, there’s more and more people who are sort of discovering Panama. You know, before I came the first time, I thought it was really going to be dirt roads and roosters and kids with no shoes on. And it was really eye-opening. When you look at the skyline in Panama City, it’s Miami. It’s tall.
glass skyscrapers and boulevards. And it’s just completely different than you think. There are world-class restaurants here. There are, you know, there’s a good thriving arts basis here, whether it’s art or theater or ballet. There’s a lot of concerts that come here. So because of that, that has been attracting a higher caliber of people.
And a lot of people will come here on vacation to go through the Panama Canal on a cruise or just to check it off their bucket list. And then once they’re here, they start going, wow, okay, maybe this is someplace that we should invest in. One of the reasons people are investing so much now is because the carrying costs are so low. If you look at beachfront property around the world, whether it’s Miami or Southern California or the South of France,
It’s not even the cost of the property, although that can be very high as well. But the carrying costs, like in Miami, if you’re going to have an apartment that’s the same size as mine, you’re going to pay about $6,000 a month, just between three things. Your your HOA, your insurance and your property tax. So that’s zero electricity. That’s not a mortgage. That’s just the carrying costs. And in Panama for the same size apartment,
your carrying costs are going to be between about $400 to $700 a month, inclusive of property tax and insurance.
Michelle Kesil (11:20)
Yeah, definitely a more affordable option for people.Melissa Darnay (11:21)
Yeah.And you know, when people look at things, just look at purchase price. And I think that’s what our brains have been trained to do. And they don’t even think about those carrying costs. But that is where Panama shines. You know, if you compare buying something in Panama to buying something in North Dakota, you know, we might be more expensive. But first of all, it’s not beachfront.
So if you compare apples to apples and make sure it’s beachfront and then put those other things in also because we’re just sort of pouring the gas on what’s going on in Panama. And right now, like I said, the catalyst is just happening. So people who are getting in right now, they’re not only going to see return on investments from year over year rentals, but they’re also going to see appreciation.
And that’s something
that we know right now is happening in the market that it will cap at some point. So right now is the sweet spot.
Michelle Kesil (12:22)
Yeah, absolutely. And do most of the people that you work with come there for retiring or what type of like living are they coming to you for?Melissa Darnay (12:23)
Yeah, some people come for retirement. Really, it’s the people who come here retire is probably 10 % or less of our clientele. Because when you think about it, moving to another country, like moving like I did everything, that is a big decision. And a lot of peopleDon’t feel comfortable making that big of a decision. But when you’re talking about investing in a vacation property, a beachfront property, or maybe a mountain condo, where you can get return on investment, appreciation, and be able to use it as your vacation home, then all of a sudden it makes more sense. You can get something in Panama beachfront starting about $200,000 for a nice beachfront.
condo with a lot of amenities. You can get something in the mountains again, starting to $300,000. The sweet spot really is going to be the 300 to $400,000 mark though, because that gets you residency. There are several residency programs where you only have to be in Panama, two weeks every two years, you spend a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. And again, you’re going to have your
vacation home, you’re going to, know, depending upon the place, the ROI might be 4 % to about 14%. So the first thing we do when we chat with someone, say, you know, what are your goals? If your goal is return on investment, we’re gonna look at these properties. But if your goal is some sort of blended lifestyle, then we’re gonna look at these properties that will allow you to use them, maybe get a lower ROI, but you can use it a couple months out of the year and still put money in your pocket.
Michelle Kesil (14:58)
Yeah, amazing. That makes sense. And what about for like real estate investors? A lot of the people listening to the show are investors. What would you say to them?Melissa Darnay (14:59)
So for real estate investment who want pure ROI, so you’re going to say, okay, I’m not going to go stay there. Maybe I want one condo, maybe I want 10 condos. Then the conversation we would have is, okay, what sort of capital do you want to invest? And then what sort of return on you looking for?and what sort of appreciation because it’s all part of the package. know, one other thing is especially when comparing Panama to other places because when you compare, for example, in Panama, you’re not just comparing this building to this building, you’re comparing Panama to Dubai, to Colombia, to Mexico. That’s what the typical real estate investors looking for. So when you’re looking at pure ROI,
A lot of investors have said, hey, you we can get better ROI in Dubai. Well, you know, I’ve been, I’ve lived in that part of the world. I know that what they tell you and what the actuality is, isn’t necessarily the same thing. And we have proven, we have proven records of numbers. So in Panama, we’re not saying we’re going to have the highest ROI of anything around the world, but what it is, is it’s a safe investment.
You can get without working a sweat, you can get a 5 % ROI plus appreciation plus diversification into a safe economy. And I think that’s where Panama’s sweet spot is right now.
Michelle Kesil (16:35)
Yeah, amazing. Sounds like a great opportunity for people.Melissa Darnay (16:38)
One of the other things that is going on in Panama right now, in the Latin culture, when people get old, so your parents or grandparents, the family takes care of them. So when it comes to things like assisted living, just doesn’t, it has not existed in Panama, because it goes against the grain of the culture. So now enter all the, you know, North Americans.Michelle Kesil (16:40)
Sure.Melissa Darnay (17:01)
who, you there’s a lot of people, and I’m gonna say my mom is one of them, she’s finding it very hard to pay for getting old in the city where, you know, she’s lived for so long. And she’s not alone, there’s a lot of people like that. So Panama is finally introducing the first independent living facilities that in order to get in, it’s like less than $300,000 investment.And it’ll be a pretty low monthly carrying costs. So a couple thousand versus five to 10,000. And I think this is one of the areas. I don’t think Panama really even believes in it yet, but I think once they test it and see how many people come down here who can’t afford to get old in the U S I think this is the next boom. That is something if somebody’s looking to get into what I’m going to call an emerging market.
In Panama, that’s something you can enter into for less than 300,000 right now.
Michelle Kesil (18:02)
Yeah, absolutely. That’s awesome. And so what does your real estate brokerage look like? How are you guys connecting to clients that areMelissa Darnay (18:16)
We’ve been in business since 2012. So we get a lot of referrals. Number one. Number two, I also have a YouTube channel. I have a podcast called the Panama podcast, where we talk about all things Panama lifestyle.And we get a lot of potential clients from that who are interested in, you whether it’s relocating, retiring, investing, anything like that. We also manage about 40 rental properties. And through those rentals, we also get people who come here and stay on vacation and fall in love and then want to buy real estate. So those are our main channels.
right now.
We also offer, here’s one that we just recently started, we offer to other real estate brokers, for example, in the United States. If you’re a real estate or a realtor and you have a client base, we can help take care of your clients who might be interested in investing in Panama. Here’s the reality, your clients are gonna invest overseas whether or not you help them. And if you partner with us, you’ll get a piece of that commission and do nothing.
All you have to do is the introduction.
Michelle Kesil (19:30)
Amazing, that’s a great offer for people.Melissa Darnay (19:32)
Yes. And you can contact our team and learn more about that. Awesome. So what do you think is the biggest opportunity for Panama real estate? The biggest opportunity right now, like I said, is we know that we’re in this growth cycle and we’re at the bottom. So right now the big opportunity is that people who get in nowMichelle Kesil (19:36)
Awesome. So what do you think is the biggest opportunity for Panama Real Estate?Melissa Darnay (19:57)
or going to see the biggest returns on appreciation. And 10 years ago or five years ago or two years ago, that was really not part of the conversation. So someone who’s been sitting on the fence about investing overseas, now is the time in Panama is the place.Michelle Kesil (20:15)
Amazing sounds like now is a perfect time for people to diversify and yeah, try some international adjustments.Melissa Darnay (20:15)
Absolutely. You know, something international should at least be part of your portfolio. You know, for someone who has stocks, bonds, real estate in the United States, again, the next part of diversification is having real estate outside of the US. And that I would say is the majority of our clientele.Michelle Kesil (20:42)
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing about everything that you’re offering people. Before we begin to wrap up here, if someone wants to reach out, connect, learn more about what you’re up to, where can people find you and connect with you?Melissa Darnay (20:43)
Our website is choosepanama.com. our real estate on YouTube, our podcast is YouTube, of course, youtube.com. And then it’s @choosepanama.
or you can do a search for the Panama podcast.Michelle Kesil (21:12)
Perfect. Well, I appreciate your time, your story, and your perspective. Thank you so much for being here.Melissa Darnay (21:09)
Thank you for having me. Greetings from Panama, sending you some sunshine.Michelle Kesil (21:19)
You’re welcome.Thank you. And for the listeners tuning into the show, if you got value, make sure you have subscribed. We’ve got more conversations with operators like Melissa who are building real businesses and we’ll see you on the next episode.
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