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Show Summary
In this episode, Sebastian Jania from Ontario Property Buyers shares his journey into real estate, focusing on off-market acquisitions in Ontario’s competitive market. Discover his strategies for finding hidden value, leveraging marketing channels like SEO and PPC, and expanding into broader markets while managing risks and regulations.
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Sebastian (00:00)
I think I would say don’t rush into what’s, I guess, what’s kind of sexy when it comes to real estate. For us, when we got started, we started immediately flipping and we went to, think, three flips within the first like four months all at a time. And there was big market shift and it was all capital that we raised and we didn’t really plan for what if things went wrong.
and in hindsight, I would have just started off with one deal at a time, see proof of concept, get paid, build the confidence to the next deal and kind of build a little slower.
Scott Bursey (02:12)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros podcast powered by Investor Fuel. I’m your host, Scott Bursey. Today we’re diving deep into the Canadian real estate scene, specifically the dynamic market of Ontario. Our guest is Sebastian Jania from Ontario Property Buyers. He isn’t just talking the talk. He’s dominating the purchasing game by helping investors find hidden value in a competitive landscape.
He’s bringing the high octane fuel of strategic property acquisition and you, our listeners, are about to fill up. Get ready to unlock some serious value. Let’s fire up this episode. Sebastian, welcome to the show.
Sebastian (02:55)
Thanks so much, Scott. Happy to be here.
Scott Bursey (02:57)
It is fantastic having you here and for our listeners who may not be familiar with your journey, please tell us how did your career begin and what is your main focus now?
Sebastian (03:08)
Okay, so actually a lot earlier on, wanted to go to school, become a physiotherapist, ended up kind of going abroad for a while, did some different personal development seminars, things like that, and came across a bunch of people who were doing fix and flips, wholesaling, and that kind of started to spark some curiosity. ⁓ And at the time though, I was thinking, well,
How do you do that if you don’t have money? How do you do the buy and holds if, you know, again, you don’t have capital? At the time, I didn’t know about raising capital or anything like that. And at the end of 2020, I ended up starting to just kind of research different coaching programs in Canada. And so I ended up signing up for one and then ended up working with a coach in my local market for about six months or so where I started to learn.
more about fix and flip and wholesale and just really haven’t kind of looked back since then.
Scott Bursey (04:09)
That’s awesome, what a journey and congratulations on the path that you’re on. And really what caught my attention about you was the way that you’ve been able to secure winning deals for clients by mastering the art of off-market acquisitions, even in Canada’s most fiercely contested markets.
Let’s dive right on in because I know our listeners are going to want to hear this from you. What is your greatest asset in finding Ontario deals right now?
Sebastian (04:37)
So definitely my greatest asset and just our company’s greatest asset is on the marketing side and also on the various kinds of acquisitions that we do just within residential real estate. So I guess to give some context to that, ⁓ on the actual marketing side, like we’re really good at SEO, at PPC, those are our main two marketing channels, which…
I mean, I believe those are like the highest intent channels ⁓ where the sellers are actively seeking us out and they’ve gone through our website, they’ve gone through our YouTube videos. They already feel like they know us even before we connect with them on the phone, which gives us a big competitive advantage. And then also on the exit strategies and just the way we acquire deals, we do…
regular fix and flip where we raise the capital, we close the deal. We do regular wholesale, but at the same time, we also do what I call seller input deals where we get, it’s basically a kind of like a JV with a seller. And so there’s been multiple occasions where the seller has a wholesaler offer that, you know, we tell them that, this is not like a legitimate cash offer. It’s conditional for a couple of weeks.
but here’s a better solution where we can pocket you a lot more money and then we can actually execute on that. And so for us being able to give them a cash offer, a wholesale offer and like a seller JV offer allows us to really, after we’ve dug deep into the seller situation, present actually what’s gonna be the best fit. And I just find that that, like our conversion rates just go way up. And so we can…
outspend people on marketing because our return per actual lead that we talk to is just way higher because there’s so many ways to monetize those leads.
Scott Bursey (07:24)
That’s a massive advantage in this market and if one of our listeners or a series of listeners is saying hey I like this guy and I like to partner up what would you like them to know about your business what’s the first thing you like them to know?
Sebastian (07:41)
I mean, when it, when it comes to, let’s say people bringing us deals or something like that, ⁓ it’s, it’s important that my approach is always if you wouldn’t buy it, then don’t lock it up. So if someone’s bringing us a deal, make sure that, you know, they’re actually, the numbers are, are so good that they would consider buying it. And then we can give our input and either we can help them wholesale it, or maybe we can buy it from them.
That’s always kind of my philosophy rather than just locking up something that, maybe this is good for someone else, but you kind of know deep down that it’s not really that great of a deal. And if it’s on the capital side, well then ⁓ that’s pretty straightforward. We just look for people who, I guess have, who are comfortable with the different uncertainties that come with.
flipping real estate or holding real estate and sometimes things can take a little bit longer. And so I tell on the capital side that if you can’t wait any, like if it’s your last dollar, like don’t lend to us. I want to make sure that people are in a comfortable spot and we want to take care of people really well too.
Scott Bursey (08:52)
That’s an excellent philosophy and an excellent breakdown. Let’s shift gears just a little bit here and let’s talk about the biggest time drain or perhaps bottleneck for new investors in your market in Ontario.
Sebastian (09:07)
I would say, so a couple, a couple of things with that. So what I find is that a lot of people, let’s say if they are doing wholesale or flipping, just in general doing marketing, they’re spending time on the wrong opportunities. And so they might talk to someone who bought the house a year ago and spend all this time to run comps and make them an offer when, when really I think it’s important that people go through their own data and understand.
which like what is the what is my avatar that typically converts and so we’ve spent a lot of time refining our processes there and then as far as actually other bottlenecks like I guess from more of something I guess that other people can relate to as well is the actual delegation of various like high level tasks too.
So it’s very easy as like an owner operator to feel like you need to hold on to acquisitions and like, don’t let it go because other people aren’t going to convert like you will. And I think even I’m learning right now that that’s pretty limited thinking. And that ultimately there’s going to come a point at which you can’t scale more without delegating or streamlining certain aspects of what you do.
So yeah, those are definitely.
Scott Bursey (11:06)
Well, you’re hitting on some crucial points there. Avoiding analysis paralysis is essential for action. No question about that. And what do you feel in your market is the biggest opportunity, something that you’re ready to perhaps tackle now?
Sebastian (11:24)
I mean for us it’s really just…
expanding kind of our footprint. So I find like a lot of people, they want to go deeper in the market that they know, but I don’t think a lot of people realize that certain channels, their costs don’t go down with scale. like if you do, let’s think of an example, let’s say Facebook ads. If you run Facebook ads and you cover a wider population, your cost per lead is going to go down. And so,
If let’s say like for us, what we’re looking at right now is more kind of more all over Canada and then also the States. And so by spreading the different marketing channels that we’re already good at, we just get a lot more leverage there rather than just sticking to Ontario and now adding on direct mail and adding on, I don’t know, bandit signs or something like that. There’s a learning curve to each of those different channels versus
taking what we already know is very easy to step into a different market and just do the exact same thing. So that’s kind of how I’m seeing things and yeah.
Scott Bursey (12:33)
guess through your lens, where do you see the biggest growth potential?
Sebastian (12:38)
So as far as growth potential, I say for us, one of the ways is some additional exits, additional exit strategies where we can maximize, I guess, the leads that we get even more, but also, again, more delegating. So if we can delegate more, we can spread out more, and overall, again, we can scale more versus…
I would say being a very highly profitable, lean team, but also having somewhat of a cap on that. Unless we are only doing marketing or only doing something else where we can leverage other people.
Scott Bursey (13:16)
What is one area that you’re watching closely now?
Sebastian (13:20)
So for us right now, we’re really looking at regulation in the US. just the way that I kind of see the Canada and the US is that US is always a couple of years ahead. Like wholesaling is further along or just even I would say even tech companies that deal with real estate are further along. There’s different privacy laws here which don’t apply in the States.
that tech can advance a lot more. And so I’m always looking to see kind of like where the puck is going. And so for me, it’s okay, if regulation is coming down in different States for things like novations and wholesale, and even just distressed, you know, property acquisitions, we need to be thinking on our side. Okay. That could be a couple of years away, but how do we position ourselves?
that now so that we’re never caught by surprise.
Scott Bursey (14:11)
Certainly. And on that note, what do you feel is the biggest risk factor that you’re watching closely over perhaps the next 12 months?
Sebastian (15:04)
I would say definitely, again, definitely the regulations. We’re also kind of looking at how do we, I would say bring more AI into our business so that we’re again, streamlining a lot of our processes more. I kind of feel like now is going to be an opportunity where we can really eat up a lot more market share by just having better tools like that in place.
that kind of streamline the repetitive tasks like lead manager calls or things like that.
Scott Bursey (15:40)
Besides competition, what’s slowing down the market share?
Sebastian (15:43)
So I would say it’s largely marketing. So for us right now, our thing this quarter is really starting to dump a lot more money into marketing. think we’ve been very, like PPC is something new this year. Up until this year, we were 100 % SEO. Every single deal we were doing was through Google or Bing search. And that went very well.
But now we’re starting to see certain advantages of PPC and also that we need to kind of be diversified in our marketing efforts too, rather than reliant on a single channel. ultimately, I guess the great thing about just paid marketing versus SEO is that like you can flip a switch today and it starts to work versus SEO. mean, we’ve been…
working on our websites for years to get to the position that we’re in now.
Scott Bursey (16:40)
And that’s really was framed nicely. Considering the current high interest rate environment and the tight inventory in many Ontario areas, what is the single best strategy every buyer must implement today to ensure that they are making a profitable acquisition that will perform over the next, let’s say up to five years?
Sebastian (17:03)
So a couple of things. So I’m going to hit this kind of from a couple of different angles. if it’s my opinion, after having lost a lot of money on flips a couple of years ago, when we shifted a lot more towards wholesale, largely to basically dig ourselves out and get our investors money back to them. We’ve kind of learned that. I think it’s really important to start with the lower risk.
strategies first. And so in this market, it’s very easy to buy bad deals. Yes, there’s a lot more deals out there, but it’s very easy to buy what you perceive to be a good deal and actually find out that it’s, you know, basically close to market value or there’s issues with it. And so in order to navigate this market, think for especially for new people,
doing something like wholesaling or something like lower risk where maybe you can help out another investor is probably a good approach. But also, again, another angle to this is the multiple exit strategies, where for us, in order to stay very profitable, we’re pitching different options to sellers so that in a competitive environment and a slower environment, we’re
rarely squeezing out the best deals that we can. And then also the marketing. So on the marketing for us, we’re again, really, really focused on very high intent channels to get around like away from the noise. Because right now, the way that I kind of look at it now is 2021, 2022, very, very few motivated sellers. But when you found them, it was a great deal.
And right now I see it that there’s a lot of motivated sellers, but not that many, like very, very motivated sellers. And to do deals right now, you need very, very motivated sellers because everyone wants to sell and everyone’s got something going on and everyone’s got some kind of financial situation. But unfortunately, if there’s not a way to help that seller out while you’re, basically end up being like a counselor for them. And,
You can’t really help them out in a lot of these cases.
Scott Bursey (19:19)
100 % and you’ve provided so much great insight for our listeners today, but is there any golden nuggets or any advice that you’d like to leave with them?
Sebastian (19:29)
I think I would say don’t rush into what’s, I guess, what’s kind of sexy when it comes to real estate. For us, when we got started, we started immediately flipping and we went to, think, three flips within the first like four months all at a time. And there was big market shift and it was all capital that we raised and we didn’t really plan for what if things went wrong.
and in hindsight, I would have just started off with one deal at a time, see proof of concept, get paid, build the confidence to the next deal and kind of build a little slower.
and, have cash reserves for if things go wrong. so that’s, again, with social media and everything right now, it’s, very easy to feel like, well, I have to be flipping or I have to be.
buying commercial properties or I have to be doing seller finance or subject to and all that stuff, which again looks fantastic for marketing and content, which again, all of it works, but like you have to really assess your own situation and be comfortable with what if it doesn’t work out. And so like with wholesale, if something doesn’t work out, you might lose the couple grand that you spent on marketing.
But if you, if you buy wrong and on, you know, an impulse emotionally, I mean, I know there’s a lot of people who will say that the market will save you, but there’s also a lot to stomach to wait however many years it’s going to take to, to, you know, kind of fix a bad decision. And so if you’re not, not to, not to ramble too long, but I look at like Ontario right now where people who bought at the peak in 2022, they’re holding on.
but the value of their property is down 30%. So there comes a point where then they get hit with a mortgage renewal, because the mortgage terms here are like five years. They can’t necessarily hold on for that much longer. you know, it’s really assessing your own situation, what you can afford to lose and make sure that you have good guidance to kind of navigate that.
I think it’s.
Anyone can win in real estate, also anyone can lose. so, you know, making sure that you’re positioned well.
Scott Bursey (21:53)
Just excellent words of wisdom. And Sebastian, this has been incredible. Thank you for sharing your insights with us here today and for the pros that would like to follow your journey, collaborate with you. What is the best way for them to contact you?
Sebastian (22:11)
I would say if they want to reach out to, you know what, probably I just, I can put maybe in the notes, my Facebook and Instagram, I would say mainly Facebook. And again, I’m happy to message with people or jump on a call or anything like that. I’m very happy to give people advice who are willing to put in the work to actually execute on it. I’m not a big fan of, you know, investing.
my heart and my energy into people and then maybe they just don’t do anything with it. you know, if you’re wanting to get better and you’re serious about getting better, then yeah, definitely happy to connect.
Scott Bursey (22:46)
Sebastian, thank you so much for joining us today.
Sebastian (22:49)
Appreciate having me on, this is great opportunity.
Scott Bursey (22:51)
This has been just outstanding. And to our listeners, we appreciate each and every one of you. If you got value from today’s episode, please subscribe. We have a lineup of exceptional guests, just like Sebastian, who are making huge moves in the market. Until next time, keep your standards high and your vision clear. We’ll see you on the next episode, everyone.
