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Why Mindset Is the Biggest Bottleneck in Real Estate Investing (And How to Break Through It)

By February 6, 2026Real Estate Pros Show

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Show Summary

In this episode of the Real Estate Pros podcast, host Micah Johnson speaks with Francesca Apostolou, a seasoned real estate investor and life coach. They discuss Francesca’s journey into real estate, the importance of personal development, and how mindset shifts can lead to success in investing. The conversation emphasizes the need for clarity, accountability, and continuous learning in both real estate and personal growth. Francesca shares insights on overcoming challenges and the significance of staying focused on one’s goals.

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    Investor Fuel Show Transcript:

    Francesca Apostolou (00:00)
    So the personal development helps me get out of my own way because we start to get limiting beliefs too about how much more we can do or how bigger we can go. So the person development helped me to recognize what my fears were and why I was having those fears. But then I also feel like we can go off on a not sure like with the clarity of where is it that we want to be? Where is it that how am I going to do this anyway? And so step by step being able to be held accountable to.

    and create a plan was something that I needed. ⁓ And it was just the personal development helped me get into larger multifamily.

    Micah Johnson (02:16)
    Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Real Estate Pros podcast. I’m your host, Micah Johnson. And today I’m joined by Francesca, who’s been making moves in real estate investing since 2007. Francesca, welcome in. Glad to have you.

    Francesca Apostolou (02:18)
    Thank you.

    Thank

    I’m so happy to be here, Micah. Thanks for having me.

    Micah Johnson (02:31)
    Absolutely, I’m excited for you to be here today too. Our pre-recording call, you and I, we were into some of the same stuff and I’m excited to bring it out for folks because I think it’s very important as part of their journey. So let’s dig in on that. For those who may not know you yet, what’s your main focus right now and what markets do you operate in?

    Francesca Apostolou (02:40)
    Very.

    Get

    So our main focus is to acquire more multifamily properties. We are looking in the Southeast and in North Carolina, South Carolina areas. So that’s our main focus in real estate. And also a main focus of mine is something that I absolutely love. Apart from real estate is ⁓ personal development. So I’m also a life coach and I just love being able to help others recognize their full potential and help them.

    with their limiting beliefs and get out of their own way. So those are two of my main focuses.

    Micah Johnson (03:23)
    Love that, love that. Man, we can go deep on that second one for sure. Okay, so take us to 2007. How did you first get into real estate? And then we’ll work to where you are today and the couple of things that you do.

    Francesca Apostolou (03:31)
    think you’re gonna stay in the bowl.

    Okay,

    in 2007, my husband and acquired a condo in Florida. And it was really by accident. It was something that we just bought to use for ourselves and our children to enjoy, you know, the beautiful weather because we’re up in the northeast. So we wanted to be able to go down on these cold January days down to Florida and enjoy the weather. But we realized as the years were going on, we didn’t really have as much time to get down there with our kids growing.

    Micah Johnson (03:50)
    Yeah.

    Francesca Apostolou (04:06)
    So we started to rent it. And when we rented it, we realized that, you know, it was paying for itself and it was also something that we were making money while we were sleeping. And, you know, we realized that we also have W-2 jobs that we only had so much time to make money. And that was like giving us, you know, a nice little, I want to say it was a college fund for our kids at the time. So it was giving us, you know, that little.

    that little income every month to set aside. And then that just, we recognize the power of it and that just made us want to learn how to do it bigger and go bigger. And so, you know, that’s what sparked it was just that trying to get out of the Northeast to enjoy some warm weather for ourselves, but then kind of became ⁓ accidental landlords in a sense.

    Micah Johnson (04:36)
    Are you set?

    Happy little accidents, that’s what I call them, right? Is it one thing that you can’t see coming because you did something else, which ⁓ kind of ties in with how personal development works a lot in the grand scheme of it all. So before we jump into that, so how did Connected Dots for us on the real estate and the personal development part, was it personal development first and then you saw real estate or real estate first and then showed you, wow, there’s some stuff I got to work on.

    Francesca Apostolou (05:51)
    Yeah.

    Mm-hmm.

    Yeah, so trying to get into larger multifamily properties or even just do multiple instead of just the one. ⁓ It was a mindset shift that we had to have.

    the personal development helps.

    me get out of my own way because we start to get limiting beliefs too about how much more we can do or how bigger we can go. So the person development helped me to recognize what my fears were and why I was having those fears. But then I also feel like we can go off on a not sure like with the clarity of where is it that we want to be? Where is it that how am I going to do this anyway? And so step by step being able to be held accountable to.

    and create a plan was something that I needed. ⁓ And it was just the personal development helped me get into larger multifamily. Besides learning how to buy larger multifamily, I had to get out my own way. Like that was the first thing, right? And getting rid of that mental block that would come where I wasn’t clear on the direction I wanted to go or I wasn’t clear on how to get there.

    Micah Johnson (07:33)
    love the point you’re bringing up about the clarity part in personal development, because personal development, it’s a tool. That’s what it is. It’s a tool to get good at being human. Like that is how I view them. It’s a skill set. I say, you know, if you want to be a good human being, get good at being human. If you do that second one, the first one will line up. It can’t help but do it because you start to see there’s a skill set to all this. And it doesn’t work quite as good when you’re just wandering.

    Francesca Apostolou (07:39)
    Absolutely. Yeah. ⁓

    Micah Johnson (08:00)
    When you’re not sure, when there’s a lot of

    fog in there where you don’t have this, know, Tony Robbins refers to it as that thing you believe in in the next day. If you have that hope for the next day, you can withstand any hard now, right? So it’s, but when you’re not sure what that is, now you’re just floating. And to a mind that does not practice personal development and you mix in floating, that you create chaos in your world. You kept saying it over and over. I’m the one in my own way.

    Francesca Apostolou (08:05)
    this.

    that you believe in the next day. you have that hope today, you can look into any part of that right now. Yes. But we’re not sure what that is. you’re just going to go find the non-practice person in development and you fix it. You create chaos in your world. Exactly. You’re going it over and over. I’m the one in

    my own way.

    Micah Johnson (08:29)
    That was my

    same thing too. Real estate led me to personal development and it showed me, this is you dude. This ain’t nobody else, it’s you. You’re the problem. We gotta sit and figure this out.

    Francesca Apostolou (08:30)
    That’s right. ⁓

    Micah Johnson (08:43)
    What’s in your journey of it? What was a lesson for you that like stuck out that when it, when it, you heard it, like it was one of those things you can’t unhear.

    Francesca Apostolou (08:43)
    Thank you. ⁓

    those things get

    better and better.

    A lesson that stuck out when I was going through my real estate journey was like, say in your lane, what is it that you are looking to invest in and go all in? If it’s going to be a market, then go all in on that market. Cause I think this is what happens. We think like, ⁓ there’s nothing here in this market. And then we start all over again and we go somewhere else. So it’s like, stay

    your lane, where is it that you’re looking go all in and go deeper into that market or Even another thing that stuck with me is have a criteria So, you know what to say yes to and you know what to say no to because if you don’t know you’re gonna say no to everything or yes to everything so it’s like you need to have that specific criteria or what it is that you’re looking for so that Totally stuck with me and that helps me make my decision quick

    Micah Johnson (09:49)
    Right. Learning it, I’m not sure if it was Warren Buffett, heard so this, or I made it up completely, but it was learning to say yes is like step one to this world. The next one is learning to say no.

    Francesca Apostolou (09:57)
    Yes.

    Micah Johnson (10:35)
    It’s you’ll see when you learn how to see opportunity, it’s everywhere. It’s everywhere. And if you get distracted by it, you won’t get anywhere. So you’re, you’re, killing it with it. It’s stay in your lane, keep that clarity. And it’s okay for that lane to adjust.

    Over time, if it’s adjusting, it’s adjusting. It’s one of the reasons I love real estate. It’s big. You got started with a condo in Florida and now you’re doing multifamily. It doesn’t require

    you to stay one thing. It can grow with you.

    Francesca Apostolou (11:04)
    Absolutely.

    Micah Johnson (11:07)
    So what was it about multifamily for y’all that drew you there?

    Francesca Apostolou (11:08)
    I

    Well, most I family was just a way of doing it where we had all under one roof. wasn’t just single ones ⁓ in multiple different places. It was like easier to control. And not to say you can’t do it with single cause you can, no doubt. It was just, we wanted to build a business within one property. So that’s why most I family made the most sense for us.

    Micah Johnson (11:39)
    which lines up against finding that niche that how do you wanna do this? What do you wanna wake up and do every day? And it comes back to that clarity of what’s your end goal? What is the point of what you’re doing? And then work backwards. It’s so helpful because it creates that lane where, all right, these are my bumpers. If it’s on the outside of this, I’m not doing it. Automatically, no, I can stay right in here and whatever it’s coming, okay, yep, nope, yep, nope.

    Francesca Apostolou (11:45)
    Yeah. Right. Yeah. ⁓

    Micah Johnson (12:07)
    And you get so much stress relief just from having the clarity, taking the time. And it’s not simple. Like if you’re listening

    Francesca Apostolou (12:14)
    like you’re listening to this. is sometimes, one of my favorite books is the Talisman.

    Micah Johnson (12:15)
    to this, it isn’t sometimes one of my favorite books is the Tao Te Chang. And it says the master’s water is always muddy because man, there’s somewhere where you’re just like, Hmm, Hmm. I’m not quite sure. You’re not clear everywhere every day, but in that’s what it’s leading to is get that clarity, take the time to understand. It’s not something you just rush into or rush off with.

    Francesca Apostolou (12:29)
    every day. in that way, students get that clearly. It’s a time to understand the context of the question.

    Right, exactly. Love that.

    Micah Johnson (12:42)
    So take us into your opportunity for 2026. Multi-family has been kind of an interesting world here for the past couple of years. And that led you to being able to express, you said earlier, your transformational life coach as well as an investor. So what are you excited about there?

    Francesca Apostolou (13:00)
    Some things I’m excited about is just being able to help other people open up their mind. And like you said before, how when life takes over us, we start to drift, right? And we don’t really know what direction to go in. And that’s when we don’t feel like we’re making any progress. So it’s just helping other people to stay in their lane and to direct their own ship, if you want to say, cause it’s just like a ship going out to sea.

    If we don’t have a direction where to go, it’s just going to aimlessly go around and we’re not going to make any progress. So, I mean, if we’re feeling that way, there, you can make progress. It’s just a matter of getting that help to create that system and create that way with empowering questions, right? Cause I think we don’t ask ourselves enough questions. We don’t sit with our thoughts enough. That’s the thing too. ⁓ and so something I’m excited about is,

    in March, I’m starting my next, cause it’s cohorts, my next cohort for my group coaching, which will help people, high performers, just like any real estate investor out there that is a high performer, cause they are, where they may need more clarity and they’re not sure what direction to go in, or maybe they’re in their own way. This will definitely put you on a track to help you get to where you want to go and get out of your own way and create that plan.

    So I’m excited about that. I’m also excited about still diving deeper into finding more properties. And I’m, you know, it’s, on my plan to close by one by the end of the year. So I’m still looking. So I’m excited about finding one.

    Micah Johnson (14:43)
    It’s coming around.

    beauty of the cycle. It’ll come back eventually. Just wait long enough. ⁓ Well, thanks for sharing about the coaching and the one-on-one. Because if you’re listening to this or watching this, there is absolutely zero shame in working with someone. Honestly, if you don’t, you’re leaving most of your potential on the table.

    Francesca Apostolou (14:48)
    Yeah, exactly. It’s true.

    Micah Johnson (15:44)
    It is a quote I heard as a kid. It’s hard to read your label from the inside of the bottle. We just have blind spots.

    There’s things we can’t see about ourselves.

    And that’s why we are like a community driven species. We feel the best when we have a strong community around us, because they help us see things we can’t see. And there are just things you can’t see.

    Francesca Apostolou (15:55)
    Yeah,

    Yeah, and you know, it’s just, it’s like this, I think of it this way too. We go into something so excited, right? It’s like the beginning of the year. I’m gonna go to the gym. I’m so excited about going to the gym. I’m gonna go, cause this is my New Year’s resolution. You go to the…

    But then like you join, let’s just say everybody knows what a plan of fitness is, right? They just don’t know. And then they go, but then they’re not sure what to do. So they’re always doing the same thing and they’re not seeing the results because they’re really not sure what to do and they don’t have a plan. Or they stop going because there really is no accountability there. So it’s just like, if you’re not really holding yourself accountable, sometimes you need someone else to do that. I know for myself going to the gym, I need an appointment.

    and I need someone to tell me what to do. That’s just how I will see the results I want. And it’s just anything in life. That’s just what I feel that if you want to make change in your life, sometimes you need an outside person to help you with that. And there’s nothing wrong with it. There’s nothing wrong with it. Whether you’re trying to get into real estate and learn how to buy real estate, there’s nothing wrong with, I’m a product of it, of finding someone a mentor to help you.

    Absolutely. I believe in that. So it’s just really about learning yourself and what you need, right? And then going in and going to get it and finding it. I love that James Campbell because he’s so right. He’s the greatest actor in the day. I don’t get my really, really 20s. The trainer, if they’re both that company, that’s what Doug Wanderwood hired us to help them.

    Micah Johnson (17:35)
    I love that gym example because you’re so right. I used to work at a gym way back in the day in my early, early twenties. And I was a trainer and the folks that come in and ask questions and dug in or would hire us to help them. They

    had a way different experience than the ones you saw come in and just didn’t know what to do. And it’s not their fault. How do you know what to do? Right?

    Francesca Apostolou (17:53)
    They’ve had a way different experience than once yourself in it. Didn’t know what to do. it’s not involved. How you do it?

    You know. you just ask people for pitch and it’s working out. It’s never long gone. We’re already coming to that workout. And we’re not custom. That’s the now, is that for a workout. Exactly.

    Micah Johnson (17:58)
    You go to the gym now and you see folks super fit and doing these workouts. They spent a long time learning how to do that workout. They probably worked out with someone else who showed them how to do that workout. Most likely it is the same

    idea of someone learn, use other people’s information to grow yourself and your business. Because if you’re just go to learn it all on your own, you’re inviting every pothole you can find into your life. Like it’s there’s, there’s two rules I try to live by rule one. Don’t be dumb. Rule two, be kind.

    Francesca Apostolou (18:12)
    learn other people’s information and grow yourself and your business.

    You’re inviting every pop you can find into your life. Don’t be tough. You

    tough. You can be tough. can tough. tough. tough. You can You You You can You You You be tough. You tough. You be be tough. be tough. be tough.

    Micah Johnson (18:28)
    And the third one’s never reverse the order, right? You can try to be kind being dumb, but that’s a different conversation. But it’s don’t be dumb. Like, okay, what do actually need to do? What do need to think about? And personal development led me there. I’m a very action-oriented person and I’m ready to shoot aim. And I had to learn, don’t, don’t ready shoot aim, buddy. Like it’s good,

    you can go and you have no problem going. What we need to learn how to do is calm down upfront. Where the heck are we going? Like, what are we doing, man?

    You’re just, you got all this energy and you’re going as hard as you can and you’re just spinning in circles. ⁓ Right.

    Francesca Apostolou (19:02)
    Or you’ll just keep spinning your wheels and it’s just like and

    you’re not seeing the results because you just keep spinning the wheels and then this is what happens people stop. They’re like ⁓ it’s just I’m not getting any results. So it’s really finding the right people to help you is what has helped me.

    Micah Johnson (19:08)
    Thank you.

    I couldn’t agree more. Something

    I’ve noticed for that too, and I’ll recommend this to folks, if you never worked with a coach before, you’re working with coaches, it is very effective for you to learn how you learn. Like I know how I learn. And so I hire coaches and fire them based on how I learn. If someone’s not saying it in a way that makes sense to me, no offense, I just don’t understand you because in the end, you study personal development deep enough.

    Francesca Apostolou (19:28)
    period.

    Yeah. ⁓

    Micah Johnson (19:45)
    you start to realize they’re all saying pretty much the same thing. It’s just a different way that they’re saying it. And you’ve got to hear it in your own version. The one that someone’s life experience lines up with you. Their energy makes you vibe together, right? And you said this earlier too, they ask you the right questions. The most inspirational

    Francesca Apostolou (20:05)
    Absolutely. I love that. Yes. ⁓

    Micah Johnson (20:05)
    voice we hear is our own. And when we hear it answer questions from people like those conversations asking, I can easily reflect on the ones I’ve heard.

    where me answering it to me, they just asked it. I’m like, okay, I’m literally a different person now just to a powerful question. And that’s what started hitting me like, man, a good question’s worth its weight in gold. Answers, you got answers for days. me really good questions, please.

    Cause you said earlier too, we don’t think about enough when we think about, ⁓ that’s like my favorite thing to do. I get accused of thinking too deep most of the time, but I love to go on long walks and that’s literally what I’m doing. I’m just thinking about what’s going on through the day. Where am I at right now? Checking in on myself. Like, okay, am I getting in my own way? If I’m feeling stressed, why am I feeling stressed? Where’s it coming from? Is it something I can do something about? If yes, do it. If not, dude, learn how to let it go, man. Like there’s, it’s not helping you at all.

    stressing you out and just processing life, going through it day by day.

    Francesca Apostolou (21:07)
    I that. And I think we don’t do that enough. think we have so many distractions around us that we’re not alone with thoughts enough. So, but when you are, that’s when you start to get more clear. That’s when, like you said, you realize, why did that bother me? And you start to like, you start to coach yourself. You start to ask yourself questions. And that’s the whole reason personal development is so great. Cause then eventually it just becomes a natural,

    Micah Johnson (21:29)
    right.

    Francesca Apostolou (21:36)
    thing for you to do is not just coach yourself and ask yourself these questions or how do I step away from something that’s just taking over me because I’m not being productive. You learn all these different strategies that you could use throughout life and you don’t forget them. And then that’s when you start to learn yourself and you learn who you are. And like you said, how you learn. So important. So, and as an educator, because that’s what I am as well, so important for me to know my students on how I teach them, right?

    Micah Johnson (22:01)
    It’s everything.

    Right?

    Francesca Apostolou (22:05)
    where

    either you’re an auditory learner, you’re a visual learner, there’s all different types of learners out there. And so it’s important to recognize who they are.

    Micah Johnson (22:14)
    And there’s nothing wrong with any of them, right? Like we were all shoved in classes as a kid with all different kinds of like the teacher taught how they taught. And if it didn’t make sense to you too bad, like I, the only C I got in high school was in geometry. And it’s cause I just struggled so much with how she explained what was going on to where everything else. was like straight A’s and a C, UB’s in there throughout my career. But it was just like that one right there. And it, but it showed me like, huh, okay. You need to pay attention to that.

    Francesca Apostolou (22:16)
    ⁓

    Micah Johnson (22:41)
    Get over the fact that it’s your C, but think about why it didn’t work. There was this way

    she was saying it. So if you notice it again in the future, hand up, ask questions. Hey, this doesn’t make sense. What about this? Can you explain it this way? And I have a 10 and 12 year old right now and that’s what I teach them to do. Like we were literally going over their grades earlier this afternoon when I got them from school. And there was a couple that I’m not like a Harper on grades, but what I want to know is were you trying your hardest or were you not trying here? And only you know.

    Francesca Apostolou (22:45)
    Makes you a stang. Exactly.

    She’s gonna do.

    All

    right.

    Micah Johnson (23:11)
    Like if you’re trying your

    hardest, what questions do you have? If you’re not, you know, hey, I need you to step up a little bit. This is, this is what you’re supposed to do. You go to school right now. I need you to do your best. And it just trying to layer it in early. That’s what I love about personal development. You were saying it, it becomes your operating system. All of a sudden it can’t help but ooze out of you. And if you think compounding interest is awesome with money, wait till you start lining up years of your life, after doing personal development.

    Francesca Apostolou (23:16)
    You know, step up. This is what you’re supposed to do. You go to bed. The layered and early. That’s what I about personal development. You’re your operates. Right. Right.

    Micah Johnson (23:39)
    My mentor, calls it paying it forward to your future self. I nickname it farm in time. You can literally make whatever you want in the future by understanding what I need to do right now, how I need to walk through right now, what it is. It’s not random what’s fixing to happen. You have more control than you think. And man, personal development led me down that whole road where I can look back to 10 years ago me and be like, dude, one, you should be proud of yourself and you are proud of yourself, way to go. Like you did a lot with that timeframe.

    Francesca Apostolou (23:41)
    ⁓ very positive plan for your future self. I think that one in time you could literally take whatever you want in the future by understanding what I need to do right now. Right. Right now. But it is not random what’s best for the hat. got more control than you think. And let me down that road right. Look back that 10 years ago, me and Greg knew much.

    Micah Johnson (24:09)
    But too, like, man, there’s so much to learn along the way and it doesn’t stop. Like I’ve realized there is no stopping. I don’t know what I don’t know. I’m going to die that way. There will be things I just don’t know.

    Francesca Apostolou (24:15)
    I love that.

    That’s so true.

    Micah Johnson (24:24)
    I get hyped up about it, Francesca, I’m sorry.

    Francesca Apostolou (24:26)
    I love it. could see that.

    Listen, always learn. We’re always learning and we’re always grow. You want, if you want to grow, you have to be a learner and always want to learn. And that’s, that’s exactly how my thought process is. I’m a mom of two and I always, I tell my own kids that it’s just like, never think you know it all or cause you don’t. You always be learning. Always be a student.

    Micah Johnson (24:30)
    Always. Always.

    Right.

    Always. And it’s a chance.

    And it’s one thing tying it back to real estate, why I love real estate. The natural action of participating in it is always learning. Each deal is its own little thing. Like you may have done hundreds of them, but each one, each thing, life literally almost feels brand new every single day. You’re just like, wow, okay. Cause you get to take everything you’ve learned up until that point and then deploy it in real time. Okay, this is what’s going on.

    Francesca Apostolou (24:58)
    Absolutely.

    Yep.

    Micah Johnson (25:18)
    And then it’s like, this is the whole experiment. What happened? All right. Now, didn’t like this. I like that redo. Okay. What’s next? Next. That’s it. That’s it.

    Francesca Apostolou (25:20)
    Right, right, right. It’s problem solving. That’s what

    we’re, we’re being a problem solver.

    Micah Johnson (25:30)
    That’s it. They’re not, and they don’t, they’re not meant to stop you. Another thing I tell my kids, heart equals good. If it’s hard, everything you want’s on the other side of hard. There’s nothing good you’re going to get in life that’s not hard. Right? And I know you can, right. I know you can do it because you’re walking. If you were truly a quitter, you would still be sitting on the floor in the living room, pitching a fit, not walking, but you didn’t. You fell hundreds of times and here you are. Now you can ride a bike. Right? You can do this.

    Francesca Apostolou (25:41)
    You have to work for everything.

    it.

    That’s right. That’s right. And no kid,

    no child, when they’re starting to walk, every time they fell, they didn’t get up and say, this isn’t for me. Or they didn’t sit down and say, this isn’t for me. They got up again and started to walk, trying to walk, and they tried and tried. And so it’s the same thing. It’s just that we can’t just give up and say, this isn’t for me. It’s just a matter of, it could be the economy or it could be what’s going on. You know, in the rental market, there’s so many…

    Micah Johnson (26:04)
    Nope.

    Francesca Apostolou (26:22)
    things that are, they’re factors that are happening. But something that I know that’s true with all my years living is that real estate’s always been the place to be. It’s always been a wealth builder from years gone, you know, in the past. And I mean, I even see my own home and other homes I’ve had. They’ve always gone up eventually, obviously, but everyone needs a place to live. So.

    Micah Johnson (26:39)
    Right?

    Francesca Apostolou (26:50)
    It’s just a matter of staying the course and not saying this isn’t for me because it’s just get up again and brush yourself off and let’s keep going. Yeah.

    Micah Johnson (26:53)
    Stay in the court.

    Right. And

    if you want a different asset class, fine, switch. It’s just like which thing, don’t tell yourself generational wealth isn’t for you. Don’t tell yourself that changing your family’s life forever isn’t for you. Because that’s what the American real estate market is. It’s the largest wealth builder in the history of the universe that we know of so far. Right. It is.

    Francesca Apostolou (27:06)
    Absolutely. Yes.

    Exactly.

    Always was and you could ask chat GBT.

    Micah Johnson (27:26)
    It’s what it is, learn how to participate in it, but you’re going to deal with the fact that your brain’s going to mess with you along the way. It’s going to, it’s going to, it’s going to tell you can’t, I like to play golf and a one coach told me one time, he goes, would you pay a caddy to talk to you? Like you’re talking to you right now? I’m like, no, I would not pay anybody to talk to me. Like I’m talking to me right now. Why am I talking to me that way? And it was just like, ⁓ wow. Okay. I don’t need to beat myself up into action.

    Francesca Apostolou (27:49)
    ⁓ Right, right.

    Micah Johnson (27:55)
    That lesson, that’s a life changer for me right there. Cause I always use being less than feeling like I was losing some sort of negative emotion to gain progress. But when you do that, you’re literally digging the hole you’re going to have to live in because you’re always telling yourself you can’t I’m this, I’m that, I’m this, I’m that. And all of sudden you

    Francesca Apostolou (27:56)
    That’s a life-threatening for me right here. I always choose being less negative. It’s like that was a thing. So for a negative emotion, you’re not going to When you do that, you’re literally being a whole. You’re going to have to listen. I’m back all of sudden.

    Micah Johnson (28:14)
    wake up to kind of a wrecked life and you’ve literally believed your way into it.

    Francesca Apostolou (28:14)
    You wake up to kind of a wrecked life and you literally lead your way into it. Yeah.

    Yeah. So true.

    Micah Johnson (28:22)
    So don’t do that y’all, take our word for it. And we were talking about this pre-recording, first, yeah, that’s right. The first person to development by book I read was Jensen Cheros, You Are a Badass. And she said upfront, if you’re gonna make life changes, don’t be surprised when something hard happens close by. And it was like three days later for me. And it was so helpful to know because you hear, you

    Francesca Apostolou (28:24)
    Don’t do that. Get out of it. ⁓

    Micah Johnson (28:45)
    You gotta have peace about it and it’s gotta go smooth. if it’s not going completely smooth, then it’s not right. That is so not true. It’s not true. It’s gonna be hard if you want it. That’s what that clarity comes from though. Because what you know you want, you’ll do all the hard parts to get there.

    Francesca Apostolou (28:53)
    not true is gonna be hard.

    And hey, it’s like climbing a mountain. Like it’s not easy to climb a mountain. You’re going to hit obstacles. You’re going to, it’s going to get hard when you’re trying to climb it. But once you get up there, that view is beautiful.

    Micah Johnson (29:15)
    Right? Right. It feels worth it. It feels worth it.

    Francesca Apostolou (29:17)
    It’s worth it.

    The air is clean. The view is beautiful. So no matter what it is, we’re going to go through obstacles. There’s going to be hard times. There’s going to be. It’s not just going to be all roses. So it’s part of the, it’s part of life. It’s part of life. It’s how we respond to it.

    Micah Johnson (29:32)
    It is. when you can make

    one, there it is response to it. It’s not reacting. It’s going to come. That’s what my mentor teaches, man. We know exactly what’s going to come. We just don’t know when. Just don’t like we know we humans been doing this for a while now. I even in real estate, we’ve been doing real estate for a long time. Now we know what’s coming. We just don’t know what’s going to cause it. And typically it’s a few minutiae details like the black Swan events, but we know there’s a major cycle in real estate every eight to 12 years. It’s going to come around.

    Francesca Apostolou (29:43)
    Exactly. Right. ⁓

    Micah Johnson (30:02)
    So even knowing that, going back to your own life, all the things like expecting it and not letting it be the thing that deters you. You can either tell yourself a story you can, or you can tell

    yourself one you can’t. Like in the end, that is each of our choices. Like at our heart of heart level, it starts at D.

    Francesca Apostolou (30:12)
    You can your own fun together. you can get into that. It’s amount of choices. you’re a part of the level. Yes. Start

    that. Yes. Sure does. I’ve got the ⁓

    Micah Johnson (30:22)
    Well, Francesca, thanks for joining me today. Thanks for letting me get a little hyped up on here with you. Again, I love these style of conversations. I think they’re super important. Folks just to see, hey, there’s a behind the scenes. It’s not just glamorous and closing days all the time. Closing days are actually the least of what we have the most. It’s all the in between days that we do

    creating the closings and where we spend most of our time. So for those that are listening in that would like to learn more either about some one-on-one coaching with you or possibly joining that cohort, what’s the best way for them to find you?

    Francesca Apostolou (30:42)
    creating the most important events at same time. those that are listed today and they would like to report either about some fun or coaching with me or possibly if want to do that report, what’s way

    to find me? They can find me on my social media handles. I’m on ⁓ Instagram, francesca.coaching. I’m on Facebook, francescaapostolou. TikTok, francesca.coaching. ⁓ They can email me if they want. I mean, I would love to have a conversation with them. It’s a complimentary.

    clarity session, it’s 45 minutes. And my email is [email protected].

    Micah Johnson (31:20)
    Excellent, thank you for sharing that. If you’re listening or watching, please check the show notes. We’ll have all of Francesca’s links there for you to follow along with or reach out to her. When I find folks that are doing good stuff and teaching good things, I highly recommend it. Go check it out. Get your dose of, I can actually do this. So again, Francesca, thanks for being here. I appreciate you. Thanks to everybody listening. If you got value out of today’s episode, please like this episode, share it with someone else you think can get value out of it too. And don’t forget, please to subscribe.

    Francesca Apostolou (31:30)
    and introduce things I highly recommend.

    Yeah. for having me.

    Thanks.

    Micah Johnson (31:49)
    We appreciate every single one of you that follow along with us out there. We’ve got more conversations coming up with operators just like Francesca out there building a real business and making a difference in real estate. Thanks again. We’ll see you all in the next episode.

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