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Why Down Markets Create the Best Multifamily Deals

By October 27, 2025Real Estate Pros Show

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Show Summary

In this episode of the Investor Fuel Podcast, hosts Michelle Kesil, Michael Mannino, and Nareman Hamdan discuss the intricacies of multifamily and student housing investments. They explore how to bring institutional-grade investments to the average investor, the importance of market timing, and strategies for maximizing returns through tax benefits and education. The conversation also covers investor qualifications, future growth plans, and how to connect with potential investors.

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    Investor Fuel Show Transcript:

    Michael Mannino (00:00)
    Right now the interest rates at six, 7 % and that was 3%. So literally two years ago, the properties were double. So if we’re looking at a $10 million deal today, it was a $20 million deal two years ago, three years ago.

    So when times are hard, it becomes the best deals. Warren Buffett said it best. Get greedy when people are scared and scared when people are greedy.

    Michelle Kesil (00:27)
    Yeah, I think that’s a good perspective. Not many people think that way.

    Michael Mannino (00:33)
    Well, there’s no, there’s no, yeah. Well, they should. Everybody on your podcast should think that way because Warren Buffett, that’s how he’s made his millions.

    Michelle Kesil (02:13)
    Hey everybody, welcome to the Investor Fuel Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Kesil, and today I’m joined by someone that I’m looking forward to connecting with today. We have partners, Michael Mannino and Nareman Hamdan, who are working together, investing in multifamily and student housing, as well as helping investors and partners

    get double-digit returns on their investments. So excited to have you both on the show today.

    Michael Mannino (02:50)
    Thank you, Michelle.

    Nareman Hamdan (02:51)
    Thanks.

    Yeah, thank you for having us, Michelle.

    Michelle Kesil (02:54)
    Of I think our listeners are really going to take something away from how you’re supporting people earn positive income and how you’re growing your investments. So, let’s dive in. First off, for those not yet familiar with your world, can you give the short version of what your main focus is right now?

    Michael Mannino (03:19)
    ⁓ our main focus is to bring institutional grade investments to the average person. A lot of our investments are taken up by hedge funds and, ⁓ higher end, you know, black rocks, ⁓ ETFs, black rocks, vanguards. And so we snatch them before them and bring them to the public, which typically you don’t get the returns and the tax mitigations and all kinds of benefits that the black rocks and vanguards get.

    Michelle Kesil (03:48)
    Which markets are you operating in?

    Michael Mannino (03:53)
    Nierman?

    Nareman Hamdan (03:54)
    in ⁓ Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri, Texas, North and South Carolina, and Georgia.

    Michelle Kesil (04:03)
    Amazing. How did you guys get started in this business?

    Michael Mannino (04:11)
    Ooh, that’s a good question. So typically what happens is, you know, as a contractor and then it got into building and then get building, it got into flipping and then after flipping, it got into multifamily. And then I brought Nierman on and she’s, she’s killing it. What she’s doing is customer’s relations. That’s a typical, when I, when I was talking to some brokers, said, yeah, that’s a typical, ⁓ plan for most people that are in construction. They get into construction, building, flipping, and then multifamily.

    So it’s a progression that kind of self-sealed itself.

    Michelle Kesil (04:47)
    Yeah, amazing how you were able to take your wisdom from one area and expand into where you are now.

    Michael Mannino (04:58)
    Business is business.

    Michelle Kesil (05:47)
    course. What are some of the main keys that have allowed your business to grow successfully and to run smoothly?

    Michael Mannino (05:59)
    I don’t know if any business runs smoothly.

    Michelle Kesil (06:01)
    Well, yeah, that is true.

    Nareman Hamdan (06:04)
    for sure.

    Michael Mannino (06:05)
    Right? So obviously experience is one of them. know, ⁓ if you’ve been through a lot, you’ve been through a lot, the more you’ve been through, the less you’re worried. You know, ⁓ I was through eight and, ⁓ it was tough back then. And it seems, it appears today that, you know, it seems like it’s coming back around and, it’s going to be different, but the same in, ⁓ the lessons I learned from it is when you’re, when you’re, when times are good, you make money. When times are bad, you make more money.

    More millions are made in the hard times than the good times.

    Michelle Kesil (06:44)
    How does that work? Can you expand on, like maybe an example?

    Michael Mannino (06:48)
    Sure, sure, sure. ⁓ Right now we’re trying to buy deals and we’re buying deals fighting against a bunch of people that are trying to buy the deals too. Right? So we have competition. ⁓ With competition, it minimizes profits. Because if everybody’s fighting for the deal, sometimes the deals don’t even work when they’re fighting too hard. Does that make sense? When times are good, two years ago…

    We were having conversation with brokers and a broker is a real estate broker, just like, know, a single family house is a commercial brokers, you know, so if they got a bunch of people coming in to fight over a property, the property goes up in price. You know, if there’s nobody been on it, the price goes down. Does that make sense?

    So when times are hard, nobody’s bidding on them. If nobody’s bidding on them, you can get good deals. I remember when I was in a tax sale in Michigan back in the day looking for houses, I saw 102 lots and they were going for, the opening bid was $200,000. And you had to have the money in hand that day. You had to pay for it that day. And I didn’t bring enough for that particular asset, but I would have got 102 lots.

    for $200,000. That’s $2,000 a lot. Waited three years and sold them for $30,000. That’s a 300X. Yeah, 300X. Maybe more. Maybe a 400X return on investment. But I just didn’t have the money at the time. So nowadays we notice in the flipping business and housing is starting to slow down a lot. So in multifamily, the slowdown happened in last two years.

    So with interest rates low, the multifamily is worth more. When the interest rates rise, the multifamily is worth less. Does that make sense?

    Michelle Kesil (08:43)
    Yeah, absolutely.

    Michael Mannino (08:43)
    So

    now the interest rates at six, 7 % and that was 3%. So literally two years ago, the properties were double. So if we’re looking at a $10 million deal today, it was a $20 million deal two years ago, three years ago.

    So when times are hard, it becomes the best deals. Warren Buffett said it best. Get greedy when people are scared and scared when people are greedy.

    Michelle Kesil (09:11)
    Yeah, I think that’s a good perspective. Not many people think that way.

    Michael Mannino (09:18)
    Well, there’s no, there’s no, yeah. Well, they should. Everybody on your podcast should think that way because Warren Buffett, that’s how he’s made his millions.

    Michelle Kesil (09:23)
    Yeah.

    Nareman Hamdan (09:23)
    Bye.

    Michelle Kesil (09:25)
    Yeah. Definitely.

    Michael Mannino (09:28)
    Or should I say billions?

    Nareman Hamdan (09:30)
    Right.

    Michelle Kesil (09:32)
    So what are you guys currently focusing on solving or scaling to next?

    Michael Mannino (09:42)
    Nareman, you wanna go on this one?

    Nareman Hamdan (09:44)
    Yeah, I mean, we are just working on finding the best opportunities out there for our investors so they can earn the maximum on their investment. So the markets again that we’re in, so we’re scoping out Texas area, St. Louis area, which we currently have an opportunity there

    a student housing opportunity. That’s a new build as of well, semi-new 2017. So that one is 206 units.

    with 365 beds, mean, insane amenities, mean, tanning booths, pools and state of the art gyms. And it’s right downtown St. Louis. ⁓ So we’re growing and growing our business to have more multi-families in our portfolio and then to just help our investors earn money on their investment in

    just making passive income. So, or they just literally sit there and just collect the check and not have to deal with any of the hard work that we handle for them.

    Michael Mannino (11:25)
    tenants and toilets and also ⁓ tell them about the bonus depreciation.

    Nareman Hamdan (11:30)
    the best part is Donald Trump just brought back this past January, this summer, over the summer, the 100 % bonus ⁓ depreciation act. So what that is, any real estate investment you have, you can get up to 100 % off of your personal income taxes, off of what you invest. ⁓

    Michael Mannino (11:53)
    So if you invest

    $100,000, you can get $100,000 off your taxes this year.

    Nareman Hamdan (11:58)
    I mean, you’d have to talk to your CPA or tax professionals to see where you qualify. ⁓ typically, if you’re a real estate investor, you can get up to 100%, if not 100%.

    Michelle Kesil (12:15)
    Wow, that’s amazing, that’s exciting.

    Michael Mannino (12:17)
    And so

    let me, let me, let me show you a neat little, a neat little scaling tool. If you are a real estate investor and this is what I’m doing. We have, I have an asset, ⁓ and let’s just say it’s a hundred thousand dollar investment and it’s in my Roth IRA, my SEP IRA. And I want to convert it to my Roth IRA. Right. Cause anything that grows in a Roth is tax free. So the money is already deployed into the, into the asset.

    we’re getting, if I get another say a hundred thousand bonus depreciation, I can transfer that set to a Roth without even touching the asset itself, just in my management company of my IRA management company, I use Equity Trust. So just transferring over that becomes a taxable event. And then if I have a bonus depreciation of that same amount, I can transfer my set to a Roth and do a wash.

    on the taxes. So I don’t pay taxes. turn it into Roth and anything from there is tax free.

    Michelle Kesil (13:24)
    Wow. ⁓

    Michael Mannino (13:24)
    So some neat little strategies

    to think about when you’re investing.

    Michelle Kesil (13:28)
    Yeah, absolutely. think there’s so many things that people don’t know or aren’t taught and yeah, there’s so many hacks that some people know and some people don’t.

    Michael Mannino (13:43)
    Right. And this is we like to do, we like conforming our clients and friends to show them how they can do it. A friend of mine wants to pull money out of this house. He might want to sell this house. I was explaining to him, you can sell your house and not pay any taxes on it, buy another house for lesser money, and then just put money in your pocket without doing a home equity loan or doing any kind of loans. Just buying a new house, moving into that one and selling the other.

    Michelle Kesil (14:07)
    Yeah, amazing.

    Michael Mannino (14:09)
    you

    can get up to $500,000 married, tax free.

    Michelle Kesil (14:16)
    Are you guys offering education to your investors? What does this kind of, how do you support them? What does that look like?

    Michael Mannino (14:27)
    So we have a YouTube channel, we have a podcast and if you join our investor club, you have our personal phone number. Have meetings with us anytime, free. And you can learn how to invest safely, easily and double digit returns with huge tax savings.

    Michelle Kesil (14:53)
    Are there any qualifications that someone needs in order to invest like in this way with you guys?

    Nareman Hamdan (15:42)
    Mm-hmm.

    Michael Mannino (15:44)
    Michelle, good question.

    So typically, ⁓ if you want to invest, there’s either a credit or non-accredited. We take both. We just need to know what you are when you come in, what your goals, and how we can help you get there.

    Gotta have goals. If don’t have goals, if you don’t have a target, you can’t hit it.

    Michelle Kesil (16:06)
    Yeah, of course. So what do some of these qualification goals look like for most of the investors that come through your door?

    Michael Mannino (16:16)
    Qualification

    goals? Great question. ⁓ One of our investors said, I want to retire and make $200,000 a year. Like, perfect. Invest.

    He had over a million dollars and we’re getting anywhere from 12 to 20 % return. And he doesn’t have to pay taxes. So he’s making more money than his $200,000 a year. So if you invest at a 20 % return on a million dollars, make $200,000 a year and don’t pay taxes.

    So the qualifications are where you’re at, where you want to go. This guy was, you know, he’s just learning, he’s just learning how to work with real estate. A lot of people see the biggest problem nowadays. Most people just, they don’t know how to invest. I mean, if you’ve had a few people on your show and you talk about investments, you get the dumb look like we get. like, I don’t know. I don’t know how to do passive. What do you do for passive income? Think like this. Stock market. Okay. What are your returns? And then they go, we don’t know. You don’t know what you’re making. You’re like, no.

    Nareman Hamdan (17:11)
    Right? We don’t know. Don’t know. ⁓

    Typically,

    yeah, typically it’s between 8 and 10 % if they’re lucky. Wherewith, yeah, if they’re lucky, wherewith multifamilies, I mean, you’re making anywhere from 18 to 24%. And then you’re also making anywhere from 6 to 9 % cash on cash returns. So that’s every month coming in. And then you’re not paying taxes because you’ve invested in real estate or you’re saving on your taxes, I should say.

    Michael Mannino (17:22)
    if they’re lucky.

    Yeah, it’s a slam dunk, but nobody knows about it.

    Yeah, and nobody knows about it.

    Nareman Hamdan (17:47)
    So it’s a

    no brainer. then, know, it’s, it’s the, so the, you know, we tend to have a five, we like to have a five year hold with every property that we have and to let the investors know it’s a five year hold. then either we end up refinancing it and paying out all our limited partners, or we end up selling it if the market makes sense and pay everybody out what they invested.

    And then we help them take those capital gains and rather than paying taxes on those capital gains, they’ll roll them into another investment and make some more passive income and just keep going and going and going and basically just saving on teaching them how to make the best investment and to save the most taxes that they can on their investment.

    What you say, Mike?

    Michael Mannino (18:42)
    I

    Michelle Kesil (18:43)
    Yeah, that’s amazing. I definitely think that a lot of people are wanting to invest, looking to get started, but it seems like one of the biggest blocks for people is thinking they don’t have enough cash. What would you say to someone that maybe that’s like their limitation?

    Michael Mannino (19:02)
    Well, that’s limitation that there’s in multifamily as well. There’s ⁓ a ton of different ways to make money in real estate multifamily without having cash. You can find the deals, you can help find investors. can, ⁓ you could work, you could manage the deals. You know, that’s not a lot of fun either. Tennis and toilets aren’t fun and the people that manage it, they get paid, but that’s a tough gig.

    That is one of the toughest gigs, man. They’re to call at two o’clock in morning, my toilet’s broke. Well, they go over there and find out their kid shoved a doll in it. You know, you’re like, wow, you know, the emergency was on you. You got to pay it now. And then the tenants lose their minds. Yeah, I’m not, not a fan of that, but, there’s all different ways. it really, you know, I wouldn’t say you don’t have the money. I just don’t think you have the education.

    Michelle Kesil (19:51)
    Yeah, absolutely, that makes a lot of sense. What are some of your big goals for where you want your business to head to in the next coming years?

    Michael Mannino (20:06)
    Great question. we got a fund of a $25 million. We’re going to fill that up and start another fund with a million dollars. or I’m sorry, $25 million. And we’re going to start another fund. It’s a hundred million dollars. So close up the $25 million fund and then start the new one. So, uh, just looking for people that want to want to learn how to just want to learn how to invest in multifamily. You know, the multifamily is 10 times better than, know, I put multifamily investing against anything.

    A lot of people have second single family houses and then they got to manage them or, you know, up to eight units. You know, there’s a huge difference between the profit margin on eight units versus the profit margin on 365 beds. Does that make sense? Economy of scale. And then you just get more people involved and it’s just a win, win, win situation all the way around. That’s what we’re looking for. We’re looking for the win of the investors, the capital raisers and the LPs and GPs in the property and actually the tenants too.

    Nareman Hamdan (20:44)
    Sure.

    Michael Mannino (21:00)
    We want the tenants to have a nice, clean, safe place, reasonable rent so they can keep coming, they can keep renting from us. So a win-win-win situation all the way around.

    Nareman Hamdan (21:06)
    Right.

    And then, you know, we do a cost segregation on each property that creates a depreciation typically over 27 years, but with the bonus appreciation act that Trump just passed, we’re able to do an accelerated depreciation. And that’s how it helps our investors get up to 100 % off on their investment.

    where if you were doing like rental single family homes, can’t really, you could do a cost, I mean, you can definitely do a cost segregation, but it’s not nearly going to be anything near what a cost segregation comes in at and how it depreciates multifamilies because there’s so many units and there’s toilets, you know, multiple toilets and faucets and sinks and this and that that, you know, that need to be replaced and updated. So that’s how.

    we’re able to depreciate a lot more than on a single family home. And then you’re able to.

    Michael Mannino (22:13)
    There’s a big difference

    between a $200,000 house and a $20 million.

    Nareman Hamdan (22:17)
    Right, big difference.

    Michael Mannino (22:19)
    It’s a big difference. lot of zeros. Just zeros.

    Michelle Kesil (22:23)
    Yeah, definitely. So what if an investor is curious about, you know, collaborating with you guys? What kind of does, what does that process entail?

    Michael Mannino (22:40)
    Just setting up an appointment with us. That’s all you have to do. Check out the website. See if you like it. You can talk to me, [email protected] or at [email protected].

    Nareman Hamdan (22:57)
    and we’ll have our phone numbers, direct cell phone numbers on there and just shoot us a text or call us and ask any questions. Yeah, set up a meeting and we’ll go over all your questions and walk you through some of our previous deals and give you an example of how they’re performing, how it works and all that good stuff.

    Michael Mannino (23:05)
    Set up a meeting.

    Give them a game plan to succeed.

    Michelle Kesil (23:22)
    Perfect.

    Nareman Hamdan (23:22)
    And

    then we’ll get them in our investor club and get them on our monthly newsletter. Let them know what’s going on and what opportunities are available.

    Michelle Kesil (23:34)
    Amazing, I love that. So before we wrap up here, yeah, I know you just mentioned ⁓ some ways to find you guys, but are there any other platforms or places where you guys can be reached that you’d like to share?

    Nareman Hamdan (23:49)
    Yeah, sure. We host a podcast called Driven Unscripted Success Podcast. So you can subscribe to that and find us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, pretty much everywhere, Amazon Prime, all of it. So just Google that and you’ll find Driven Unscripted Success Podcast and Mike and I are the hosts. And if you or somebody you know has a great success story, just

    Michael Mannino (23:49)
    Nareman, talk about the podcast? I always forget that one.

    Nareman Hamdan (24:18)
    Send them our way and have them book in to be on the show. We’d love to interview them. And you can also find both of us on LinkedIn. We’re on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. We’re on all social media. We’re everywhere.

    Michelle Kesil (24:34)
    Perfect. Well, I appreciate your story, your perspective, and your time. Thank you for being here.

    Nareman Hamdan (24:43)
    Thank you for having us. Yeah, that was great. Thank you, Michelle.

    Michael Mannino (24:43)
    Well, thank you, Michelle. We appreciate you. It was a great podcast. Thank you.

    Michelle Kesil (24:46)
    Of course.

    Thank you guys. And for those tuning into the show, if you got value from this, make sure you’ve subscribed. We have more conversations with operators that are building real businesses and we’ll see you all on our next episode.

    Michael Mannino (24:51)
    You’re welcome.

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