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Show Summary
In this episode, Cody Crabb interviews Chris Lefebvre from First Choice Title Company to discuss the important role title companies play in real estate transactions. They cover common mistakes investors make, how title companies help streamline property closings, and current market insights in Maine. Chris also shares practical tips for avoiding legal issues and ensuring smooth deals through proper due diligence.
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Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
Chris (00:00)
Yeah, I mean I always tell people 10 to 14 business days now the worst one I ever encountered was Two guys on a handshake deal and literally brought me a piece of paper where they wrote out their contract and come to find out The seller couldn’t even sell the property because it was his mother’s and it had to be probated and the problem was the mom had 12 bail liens on the propertyCody Crabb (00:03)
Okay.⁓ man.
⁓ my gosh.
Welcome back to the Investor Fuel podcast. I am your host, Cody Crabb. Today I’m joined by Chris Lefebvre He’s with First Choice Title Company in Maine. He works closely with real estate investors. He’s done lots and lots of closings. He knows what he’s talking about. So we’re gonna get him to talk about the role that title companies play when it comes to real estate deals, how they can help, and what you can do to make that happen ⁓ for yourself.
Chris, thanks so much for joining us here.
Chris (02:26)
Hey, well, thank you for having me. It’s pleasure.Cody Crabb (02:28)
Yeah, of course. Now, I always like to ask about people’s origin story because in this business, it’s not typically something that kids had on their, know, when I grow up, I want to be like, it’s not a firefighter, an astronaut. So ⁓ out of curiosity, like how did you get into the title business?Chris (02:45)
you know, if you had said that out of college, this is what I’d be doing many years later. I would have laughed at you. So, after I graduated college, I moved down to Florida. I worked for, Walt Disney World resorts for eight years and, COVID hit. So unfortunately my job was, eliminated and, I was looking for another opportunity. I had called around and I had an interview for a job with the Boston Bruins.And I called home and told my dad, hey, I’m up for this job with the Bruins. And he said, well, hell, if you’re going to apply for jobs in New England, I know a title company that would hire you, which is fantastic. But it’s the first time in 20 years he ever said that. he, you know, six weeks later, I found myself in a U-Haul moving home. And now I get to work with my dad and his longtime business partner ever since he got in the title game. So it’s been a it’s been a blessing.
Cody Crabb (03:22)
Youwow.
Yeah, that’s great. It sounds like this was meant to be. The timing was right and things just happened to work out there. So what does the company focus on mostly today?
Chris (03:45)
Yeah.So we’re a full service title company. the way I always explain it to people is when you buy a property, my job is to make sure you own it. Or if you’re a wholesaler, my job is to make sure your buyers and sellers get to the table. And again, make sure the buyer owns the property, but also make sure you get paid. ⁓
Cody Crabb (04:11)
Pretty important part of the process,I’d say, yeah.
Chris (04:14)
Yeah, we were also a couple years ago. We ended up buying a company called Merchants Reporting Services and what they do is your typical one owner search on a property. But for lenders, we also offer a monthly mortgage report where we go county by county and in Maine there’s only 16, so that’s nice. But everyone that writes a mortgage in that county goes on a report and then we can break it down to.What was the average of that mortgage and you know how many were written so you know where you where you stand county by county in the state of Maine. So yeah, we’re a full service title company.
Cody Crabb (04:51)
Yeah, that’s neat. The mortgage, yeah, well, I think that sounds like it would be very, very helpful. ⁓ So now, working in the title business, you probably see so many deals constantly and see kind of the backend maybe about, or the behind the scenes maybe of some of these kind of the classic mistakes that you see investors make.I would be curious to ask, what do you see that’s like, not this again. We’re seeing this mistake again. it’s like a silent, like, this is probably not gonna go well.
Chris (06:17)
you know, we’ve, Ken has been very creative and he’s been excellent to learn from, you know, especially being my dad. But one of the most common obstacles, if you want to call it, is, you know, Maine being a small town state that I like to call it.You know, these neighbors or when somebody bought a property, the seller gave them, you know, said, ⁓ I’ll loan you, let’s say $10,000 on a handshake deal. And then they wrote up a private mortgage. Well, it’s safe to say that, you know, that type of deal from 1980 has been paid back, but then nobody files a discharge. So it becomes our job to trace down and, sometimes in that case, that person has passed.
So we have to trace down, who can sign for them? And if they’re still leaving in the state. So we have to chase them down and say, hey, can you sign this mortgage? And explain to them why they’re signing on behalf of this person. But that’s the most common one. nothing too crazy that we can’t solve.
Cody Crabb (07:08)
Yeah.Yeah, well, mean, that’s that is pretty wild already. Like that’s if you’re running into those, I mean, I’m glad I’m glad that you kind of know how to handle that. So in that in that case, like so let’s talk about when a deal actually reaches your desk. Like, can you give me kind of the scaffolding of like how how does that actually work until closing? Like what’s what does the process look like?
Chris (07:46)
Yeah, so when someone sends me a purchase and sale, we have a process that we make sure it’s all put into ours so we can track it down the line. But really, the first step is calling it the towns to make sure taxes are all up to date on their end. And then I’ll take a quick look at the legal description to see if any red flags jump out at me really quickly.Then it goes to our abstractor. He’ll do a 40 year search on the property. So it’s 40 years, two owners, or we can look through the company that we underwrite for, which is first American title. We can see if there’s a back title on the property and if there is, he can start from there. So he loves those. But if not, he has to go back 40 years or two owners, whichever comes first. As long as from there, he generates a report for me.
and I’ll type up the title commitment. So after that, it goes to our attorney. He takes a look at it and kicks it back to us. Once it gets back to us, then we have a game plan on when are we gonna get this closed and keeping everybody abreast of the situations and what do we need to chase down? is there a mortgage on the property? Well, then we need the seller’s information to get payoffs. Are there tax liens on it?
Are there writs of execution on it? So that’s when we start gathering information, what we need to get everybody to the closing table. If there’s nothing crazy that we need to chase down, and especially if it’s a cash deal, hey, I’m ready to close. When can I get you guys to the table?
Cody Crabb (09:20)
Cool, okay, that’s good to know. So if you’ve got kind of these extra things hanging out on the property, might be wise to kind of bring some extra documentation and make sure everything is well, well kind of researched and things beforehand, I’m assuming.Chris (10:09)
Yeah, in the process and I skipped over this. If it’s a traditional where there are real estate agents involved, I’ll send them a questionnaire because I need to know what their commission information is on the investors or wholesaler side for the seller. I may need to know your your name and your Social Security number and have you sign it on a piece of paper. Because if I’m sending it to a bank, they need to know I have your permission to speak on your behalf.Cody Crabb (10:37)
Mm-hmm,yeah.
Chris (10:38)
And then lately with some new regulations that came down from FinCEN or the Financial Crimes Enforcement Agency that came about If it’s LLCs or businesses that are entering into these transactions Well, the government wants to know that you obtained that money by legal means so they may have some information for you So we First American has partnered with a company that they do that for you for youCody Crabb (10:57)
Reasonable. Yeah.Chris (11:06)
So as long as we have your name and email and then they want a copy of the contract, they’ll reach out and get that information, do everything for you. So that way they can give the green light on it, which means the government gave the green light on it so we can get everyone to the closing table.Cody Crabb (11:21)
That’s good, yeah, and as you know, mean, obviously people sometimes need that process to happen as quickly as possible. So, you know, what kind of, on the best of circumstances, let’s give it like a window, like on best of circumstances, worst of circumstances, what kind of timeframe can someone expect? Like if they are really in a rush, and is this, are you like, don’t even bother if it’s like really, really, we’re in a rush, or is it like, make sure you do these things first?Chris (11:42)
⁓So with I used I mean before FinCEN it was if you got me a purchase and sale and it went through abstracting and nothing came back on the property I’ve stayed here till eight o’clock with my dad pumping out documents and we’ve closed it the next morning Now that’s that’s a very rare occurrence. Yeah
Cody Crabb (12:07)
Wow.But optimistic, yeah. ⁓
Chris (12:12)
With FinCEN now, if it meets the FinCEN requirements, it’s going to be at least 72 hours. So at least three days for me to get the green light from them and pump out documents.Cody Crabb (12:21)
Okay.Gotcha, okay, so try to plan on at the very most optimistic 72 hours. What’s like the uh-oh we ran into some problems, like that kind of window, just to kind of give people an idea of if I’m looking for this to go through, how long do I need to make sure I, you know, like what’s the maximum? And obviously, probably not maximum, because there’s probably some extreme case out there, but like, you know what I mean, like if it’s on the long side.
Chris (12:51)
Yeah, I mean I always tell people 10 to 14 business days now the worst one I ever encountered was Two guys on a handshake deal and literally brought me a piece of paper where they wrote out their contract and come to find out The seller couldn’t even sell the property because it was his mother’s and it had to be probated and the problem was the mom had 12 bail liens on the propertyCody Crabb (12:55)
Okay.⁓ man.
⁓ my gosh.
Chris (13:17)
So, and they were from like the 90s. So according to him, those were all paid, but the state hadn’t discharged them. So it was working with the courts to get all these old documents. That took three months. So.Cody Crabb (13:30)
I’msurprised it didn’t take longer based on that description. Holy cow. That’s wild.
Chris (13:34)
Yeah.Yeah, so that’s the worst one I’ve encountered, but you know, typically I say 10 to 14 days. If nothing is crazy on it, I can get it closed earlier.
Cody Crabb (13:39)
What’s up?Okay, that’s good to know, that’s good to know. Wow, that is, that’s a lot, I can’t, you literally one piece of paper saying hey, here’s, like, deal was made signature, that’s pretty crazy.
Chris (13:59)
buyer, seller, price, signatures, and to cover my own, but I was like, no. So I typed one up for them, had them sign it and they got it back to me. But yeah, that was a long process.Cody Crabb (14:10)
⁓ That’s like a post-itcontract, that’s wild. Yeah, so it’s good to know though that a really complex situation like that is not gonna deter you. That’s still workable, we’re gonna figure it out kind of thing. Because I think some people kind of look at a messy situation and they just are like, let’s not do this, let’s not bother.
Chris (14:29)
Yeah, well, I always look at it like this where if it’s If it’s not me that fixes it, it’s gonna be somebody else but because main sorry for the truck passing So if it’s not me fixing it it’s gonna be somebody else but main such a small town state where eventually It’s gonna be my problem. So why not just fix it now?Cody Crabb (14:39)
You’re good.Let’s
do it from the beginning, yeah. So let’s kind of zoom out. Our audience is full of real estate investors, obviously. So I’d love to kind of get, let’s zoom out a little bit maybe, and what are you seeing in the market right now that you think might be helpful for people to know?
Chris (15:52)
You know now New England itself is kind of a different market From you know when I especially when I talk to some friends of mine that still live in Florida and have gotten into the real estate game They can go year-round New England nobody wants to show a property when there’s six feet of snow on the ground and You know, it makes it a little bit more difficult. Well yesterday it was 70 degreesCody Crabb (15:58)
Yeah.Yeah.
Yeah, I’m from Salt Lake City, I can absolutely
understand the whole like, yeah, let’s not do this now. Can we wait till March, please? Yeah, I feel that.
Chris (16:24)
Yeah, so I mean andtypically around the holidays it slows down anyway, but then with New England you get to get through the winter. We’re now what March 11th and yesterday it was 70 degrees out. So if you’re an investor and you’re looking New England and it makes financial sense for you now is the time because especially as rates start to tick down, it’s going to start pulling buyers off the bench. So that puts in a network.
for as an investor, you, like I said, if it makes financial sense to come off. And I mean, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of land that I’m seeing being traded on. There’s a lot of rehab opportunities out there for investors. So now is a great time to start looking at Maine.
Cody Crabb (17:09)
Yeah, so start putting your feelers out like yesterday is what you’re saying. Like if you’re looking around the New England area. Okay, good to know. So what do you think the most important thing to be, not so much like seasonally, but like how things are trending. What do you think would be an important thing for, let’s say you’re new at real estate investing, what would be an important thing to pay attention to?Chris (17:17)
Yeah.Cody Crabb (17:35)
that you see in the kind of broader market.Chris (17:37)
if people are new and actually it’s funny, I did just have a conversation with somebody who he was a referral from these guys that I know that have done a bunch of deals from us ever since they were new to the game. And he started, he wanted to look around Portland, which is the biggest city in Maine. And I said, you know, I’m, I’m renting, so I’m casually in the market cause I’m, I’m looking to buy when it’s right.like financially. You got to look at where the potential is. So you got to branch outside of Portland and find those suburbs that are up and coming. And especially, yes, you’re going to find your one-off deals like around Sebago Lake, because everyone loves to be around a lake, especially in the summer. ⁓ But maybe some areas around there. mean, you saying you’re being from Salt Lake City. And back when I lived in Orlando,
Cody Crabb (18:06)
huh.Chris (18:35)
I was 13 and a half miles from my office when I lived there, but that drive took 45 minutes. That’s not the case in Maine. You know, you can get somewhere. So people are okay with living in the suburbs, but commuting because it’s not that bad. So don’t think.Cody Crabb (18:41)
⁓ man. Yeah. Yeah.Yeah, I’ve heard many
times 10 miles in LA is not the same thing as 10 miles in rural Kansas or something. That’s just not the same thing.
Chris (18:59)
Right.Yeah, so find those potentials. Phone calls are free. If you need my opinion on a property or we’ve got guys that go to auction and say, hey, I’m going to this auction tomorrow. I’m looking at this property. Can you give me a quick search? Yeah, as long as nothing’s crazy out there. Because sometimes they want to know what’s on the property, but they can go on the registry and they might not be familiar with what they’re looking at. That’s OK.
Cody Crabb (19:28)
Yeah,yeah, that’s cool. That’s so you can kind of be a little bit more of an expert in that in that way. ⁓ So do you do much real invest real estate investing yourself or is that not not something that and that could be personal to not even not even as part of the company?
Chris (19:34)
Yeah.So eventually I will. mean some of my guy friends and I we’ve talked about that. For me, most of my finances right now are going towards I get married in June, so that’s where my finances are going at. Thank you. But having been in this business for six years, I can see where. It is definitely going to be worth the investment in the time and having that network around that I do.
Cody Crabb (19:58)
congratulations. Yeah, I feelChris (20:11)
But not yet, I will say.Cody Crabb (20:13)
Gotcha, but it’s on the horizon somewhere.Chris (20:17)
Yeah, absolutely.Cody Crabb (20:19)
Gotcha, okay. as far as the growth of your business, I’m curious, have you expanded recently or are you looking to expand? Are you focused on growing at all or are you kind of like we’re content being the hometown lender? I’m curious what you’d.Chris (20:47)
You know, that’s… that is a possibility. There’s a couple things at play. Because number one, some of these title companies, they’ll underwrite for First American, but also for Chicago Title and Old Republic. So this all got started back… there was a previous company that my dad and Jill and a few other business partners were a part of, and it closed.And my dad and Jill decided to spin off and create what is now First Choice Title. Well, Ken called up one of the heads at First American in Maine at the time, named Robin Watts, she just said, keep going, let us know what you need. So my dad has always operated under, dance with who brung you. And First American got us here, so we will always underwrite for First American.
Cody Crabb (21:38)
Gotcha.Chris (21:38)
⁓Now, as far as opening other offices, if it came down to it, that’s fine. But another business premise that we’ve always operated under is I’m okay with not being the biggest title company in Maine. I just need clients that are going to send me a majority of their business. We can give them great service from A to B. And, you know, I’m okay operating like that. Now, if someone wants to be a part of that,
that family, that’s okay. And then if we’re getting more more clients that are sending us all their business, and for some reason we’re not giving them the level of service that I think is appropriate, then maybe we do need to look at expanding or adding onto the company. But for right now, we’re okay. I wanna be busier, don’t get me wrong. Yeah.
Cody Crabb (22:27)
Yeah, sounds good. Who doesn’t? Yeah.Yeah, cool. So that, let’s say someone wants to work with First Choice. What do they need to, like, where do they need to live? What do they need to have? Who’s an ideal person to get in touch and work with you?
Chris (22:46)
so as far as how do they contact me or like what’s my ideal?Cody Crabb (22:49)
No,like, if someone, like, well, what I’m really trying to get at is like, do you have to live in Maine to work with first choice title? Like, that’s mostly what I’m getting at.
Chris (23:00)
No, if you’re an investor and you find some property in Maine, even so we’re located in Gorham, which is just outside Portland, so Southern Maine. But let’s say, I found this property and it’s in outside of Bangor. Can you help me? Yeah, we’re licensed in the entire state of Maine. If we need to do mail away closings, we certainly are happy doing that. In that case.Cody Crabb (23:23)
Gotcha.Chris (23:24)
Either I’d email you documents or I’d FedEx them to you. You just got to, the only logistics on your end is finding a notary, which walk in any bank and you can find a notary. And then in those packets, I send you a FedEx label to get everything back to me. I’ll handle the recordings. I’ll pay everybody. You know, that’s makes it easy. yeah, being out of state is not an obstacle to doing business with us or doing business in Maine.Cody Crabb (23:32)
Yeah, sure. That’s not too bad.Okay, good, I always wanna clarify that, because some lenders are like, they work nationwide, but only on certain properties, and only on certain, so I just wanted to be just crystal clear. You can work with you as long as the property’s in Maine. You can live wherever you want in the US, yeah. Okay, cool. So this has been really helpful. I think getting a little bit of behind the scenes on kinda how this works.
Chris (24:04)
Right. Yeah, absolutely.Cody Crabb (24:17)
So if someone wants to work with First Choice, they’re looking at a property in Maine from anywhere in the US, how can they get in touch?Chris (24:26)
Yeah, so I am on LinkedIn. So if you search Crystal Lefebvre or First Choice Title, you’ll see my name pop up and more than welcome to reach out to me there. You can find us at firstchoicetitleme.com or if you search First Choice Title on Facebook, we’re also on there as well.Cody Crabb (24:44)
Okay, awesome. So one last thing before we go, thanks so much for coming on.What is your one thing that you would say to make sure those people are successful?
Chris (24:56)
Yeah, I think and I look at these these two clients of mine they just started last year and they’ve done they did 40 transactions last year and one thing they did was one they hustled but two they built a network now they built with they Came they send us most of our business but also, you know, we’ve gotten to the point where phone calls are You know free so I’m happy to do thatBut we’ve also connected them with some hard money lenders when they needed hard money or hey, we just did this property, but it needs some electrical work. They found we found them an electrician. Now they could have done that on their own, but if you’re just getting started on the game, find a good network. I would suggest starting with a title company, but that’s me being bias. And then
expand on that network so whatever obstacle you think may come down the line you can overcome it quickly and that’s how you’re going to be successful.
Cody Crabb (25:59)
That is great advice, I love that. Chris, thanks again, thanks so much for joining us. This has been delightful. And to our listeners, thanks for joining us. Go ahead and subscribe and listen for the next episode of the Real Estate Pros podcast. Catch you next time.Chris (26:13)
Yeah, thank you, Cody Appreciate it.
