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Show Summary
In this episode of the Investor Fuel Podcast, host Michelle Kesil interviews Jason Powers, who discusses the Infinite Banking Concept and its application through properly structured whole life insurance. Jason explains how this strategy allows individuals to control their money flow, access cash value, and become their own bankers, particularly benefiting real estate investors. He emphasizes the importance of education in understanding this financial strategy and addresses who may not be suited for it. The conversation also touches on the significance of networking and building connections in the real estate investment space.
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Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
Jason K Powers (00:00)
So how many of us have gotten into fix the flip and we took down that wall and whatever was behind that wall just added two months to your flip? And you know who doesn’t care is the lender. They say, well, I’m sorry, you’re to keep paying.You’re like, well, but I need some more time. need a higher, more, our budget just went up, da da. You know, if you’ve borrowed against your own policy, you can basically, you know, and I kid, I’m like, self, self, need more time. Can I have more time to pay me back? You know, and you get to dictate how that works and say, okay, well, I can stop paying myself back for a little bit until I’ve handled the situation, right?
Michelle Kesil (02:04)
Hey everybody, welcome to the Investor Fuel Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Kesil And today I’m joined by someone that I’m looking forward to chatting with, Jason Powers, who has been making serious moves, creating a strategy called Infinite Banking Concept. So excited to have you here today, Jason.Jason K Powers (02:23)
Hey, thanks for having me. I always enjoy these programs.Michelle Kesil (02:27)
Awesome, me too. I think our listeners are going to really take something away from how you’re teaching people how to control their flow of money. So let’s dive in. First off, for those that are not familiar with you and your world, can you give the short version of what your main focus is?Jason K Powers (02:46)
Yeah, so we teach people about this thing, this concept called the infinite banking concept. And that concept really is about putting your money in a vehicle that you control. Because we’re constantly putting our money into different vehicles that we have no control over. We finance everything we do in life. Think cars, colleges, credit cards.think we put our money into qualified accounts that we can’t touch or we get penalized for touching. And so we’re constantly placing our money into vehicles that we can’t really have any control over. Even in the, think about the stock market, right? We don’t have any control. The stock market dictates what it’s gonna do. And so teaching people how to change the flow of their money in that regard. And then the vehicle that we teach people how to,
utilize this concept through as properly structured dividend paying whole life insurance from a mutual carrier, which is a mouthful.
Michelle Kesil (03:43)
Yeah, amazing. I think that is so important. Can you expand on this life insurance program that you are teaching? What it does, what it offers people?Jason K Powers (03:53)
Sure, so I believe the, again the concept, right, is getting away from our money being in these different debt vehicles and things we can’t control again, but, then properly structured dividend paying whole life insurance, like I said, is a mouthful because it’s not just, go get some life insurance and it works that way. There’s different types of life insurance vehicles out there. And so that’s why I say properly structured,whole life insurance, so we’re dealing with whole life insurance versus other kinds you may have heard of. And it’s properly structured, it’s structured in a very particular way to get access to what’s called cash value. So if you’re not familiar with whole life insurance, you do pay a premium like you any life insurance, but along the way, you get access to what’s called cash value. And that cash value inside of the policy, you can borrow against it, and you can use it for whatever you want.
throughout your life. So in this vehicle, the cash value is growing at uninterrupted compounding rate year over year over year throughout your entire life.
And you can access that cash value when you access that cash value. It actually grows inside of the policy as if the money never left. So it’s this uninterrupted compounding. Now, so now you’ve got the growth inside of the policy, but now I’ve accessed
that cash value and in this context I’m gonna go purchase real estate with it, I’m gonna do some kind of type of real estate investment deal with it. So now my money is making money in two places at once. So I have this positive arbitrage. And then I am my own banker in effect, right? I’m borrowing against my policy and I wouldn’t steal from a lender in any situation so I’m gonna pay myself back as well. I’m gonna borrow from myself and pay myself back.
And thus, obviously, the longer you have this type of vehicle, the larger it’s growing and the larger that pool of money is throughout your life.
Michelle Kesil (06:31)
Yeah, amazing. Sounds like such a powerful concept. How is this supporting investors specifically? Why would real estate investors want this?Jason K Powers (06:39)
Yeah.Yeah, so you think of all types. So you’ve got fix and flip is the most common one. Maybe know, wholesaling, fix and flips. You’ve got the buy and holds, commercial property. In all situations, we need capital as real estate investors. I do real estate investing myself. And so if I’ve got a short deal, I’m going to pick up a property. I need a quick
money deposit, right? But I had to warehouse that money somewhere. So in my savings account, I can do that. Or I could have it warehoused in my policy. I can borrow against my policy and then use that money as a quick down payment, have quick access to it. Or if I need to finance something, if I need to do a flip, and I’m going to go get a private money or hard money loan at 10 and two, 12 and four, whatever you’re paying these days. And instead, if I have start building up this vehicle, I can borrow against my own policy.
at a way cheaper rate than what I’m getting from any outside lender. And now I’m controlling the lending function. And so I can borrow, let’s use a buy and hold example. We’ve got people that will have built up cash value in these policies and they’ll borrow against the policy and say purchase a rental property, pay cash for it. Well instead of,
the mortgage, the would-be mortgage, paying the bank, they’re now paying themselves back. And while they’re paying themselves back, every dollar they’ve paid back to themselves is there to be used again on something else. But at the same time, which I alluded to at the beginning, is the cash value inside the policy actually is growing as if it never left. And so, even if you don’t have enough in there for a…
purchase, outright purchase, a down payment at worst for a rental property. And then, so we’ve got people that after a couple of years of doing this, the cash value inside of these policies is growing enough that that money is basically duplicating itself, it’s doubling itself every few years, and they can go and just rent and repeat. Keep borrowing, keep paying back, keep putting deposits on houses or purchasing houses, however much you’ve got.
your rental income was gonna be used to pay the mortgage, so be your own banker now. Now instead of paying the outside mortgage, you could pay yourself back and recapture that money. And again, every penny you recapture, you can go and purchase another property with it all over again. And so the same works when it comes to fix and flips. If I’ve gotta put money into a rehab, I’m gonna borrow against my policy, I’m gonna save a
boatload of money on the interest because I’m not paying a hard money guy. And then I’m going to pay myself back. And it’s unstructured loans. So I get to dictate when am I going to pay it back? How much am I going to pay back over how much time?
So how many of us have gotten into fix the flip and we took down that wall and whatever was behind that wall just added two months to your flip? And you know who doesn’t care is the lender. They say, well, I’m sorry, you’re to keep paying.
You’re like, well, but I need some more time. need a higher, more, our budget just went up, da da. You know, if you’ve borrowed against your own policy, you can basically, you know, and I kid, I’m like, self, self, need more time. Can I have more time to pay me back? You know, and you get to dictate how that works and say, okay, well, I can stop paying myself back for a little bit until I’ve handled the situation, right?
And then even bigger, right? We’ve got guys that use it for commercial.
commercial stuff and it works the same. It doesn’t have to just be real estate, know, cars, colleges, emergencies, retirement, you can build this up and it can be an income free retirement for you at the end. And so you’re using this vehicle throughout your entire life to make you money, save you money, turbo charge the things you’re already doing and then you could
continue to use it into retirement as an income free retirement even. And it’s a fantastically diverse strategy that I think not enough people know about and don’t realize. Because we have these misunderstandings of the capabilities of life insurance.
Michelle Kesil (11:00)
Yeah, absolutely. That is so fascinating. I definitely didn’t know that. it sounds like there’s so many pros and solutions that this can offer people. Are there any reasons this wouldn’t work or any type of person or investor that this, you know, may not be a fit for?Jason K Powers (11:10)
Mm-hmm.Yeah, I would say typically what happens is, you know, we sit down and build out strategies with people. It’s not a one size fits all approach. Everybody’s situation is unique. And so we’re going to come in and go, OK, well, what are your goals and objectives? What’s your income and expenses look like? And help formulate a plan to build out this plan for you. So the people this usually doesn’t work for, I’d say,
From a monetary perspective, if you are in, let’s call it an irresponsible spender in general, and you have a long history of it, and you don’t have any plans on changing that, that’s probably not a good idea. Because you’re spent monies coming in one hand and out the other, and you have no control, or you feel like you have no control, and you refuse to do anything about it. I’d say it’s a bad idea to add this to the mix also, you know.
just like going to get another credit card when you have a spending problem. It’s just, you like, you’re just gonna make it worse. So that’s bad. I’d say another type of person that this probably isn’t good for are people who aren’t willing to think outside the box, right? If you like just sticking with the norm and you don’t wanna vary from that, you know, this is, it’s gonna make you,
squirm in your seat, I’ll call it, right? Because you don’t want to think outside the box. And this is a think outside the box model, right? If you’re hearing this for the first time, you don’t fully understand it. And so I want people to understand it. I want you educated before you’re implementing. And so I rarely will we get into getting an actual policy.
until we’ve gone through quite a bit of education beforehand and making sure you understand it and the nuances of it and how’s it work, right? There’s this thing called the arrival syndrome where is basically the thought process of I’ve already learned all there is to learn and there’s nothing more you can teach me, I have arrived, right? It’s that mindset. That’s a tough mindset to overcome in this context. If you’re like, I already know all there is to know, then
You know, great, good for you. You keep doing what you’re doing and that’s okay. But I think a concept like this, a strategy like this, I’m not coming in and I’m not saying you need to change your real estate investment strategy. Your strategy may be working great. I’m talking about changing the flow of your money. And just by changing the flow of your money through a vehicle like this can turbo charge what you’re already doing. It’s not an either or strategy.
You know, it’s a both the end strategy. We’ll do both this and that. And in tandem, what it’ll do for me will be much more than I was doing, you know.
Michelle Kesil (13:53)
Yeah, absolutely. That feels so supportive for people to have that resource and flow for their money. And yeah, also that awareness of where they’re at with their beliefs and their financial goals for how this can support them. Awesome. So what are you most focused on solving or scaling next in your business?Jason K Powers (14:54)
Well, I think as I kind of alluded to, everybody’s situation is different. And so when I sit down with people, don’t want to put you in a box. It’s not a one size fits all approach. people come in and they’re putting a couple hundred bucks into a policy to start because that’s what they can do. People come in and do a couple hundred thousand a year to start. mean, everybody comes in, everything in between, right? And it’s just what’s yourWhere are you at in life? And so I think the work is all in the beginning, right? You didn’t get to be good at real estate investing overnight. And you put in the work, you put in the effort, you put in the education and the experience and you got your feet wet. Maybe you started small and you built up over time. Some real estate investors are crazy enough, they just dump ahead.
head first in and jump into the big commercial deals out of the gate, fine. But in most cases, you’re starting small and working your way up. So maybe that’s how it works with implementing infinite banking in your life. And so I think it’s exciting for me to see people get it and implement it and then go, oh, wow, when that light bulb comes on and then they see it work.
And so that’s what I spend my time on, is the educating and the helping implement and the strategizing and all of that and helping each person get this thing in play.
Michelle Kesil (16:17)
Yeah, absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. So are you coaching people one-on-one? Are you teaching people in a course? How are you educating people?Jason K Powers (16:26)
Yes, we have we do I do tons of one-on-ones every day every day in education I do online webinars I do events We speak at a lot of real estate investor associations around the country Got a lot of stuff online as well And and that’s kind of a good way to because you can educate on your own time when you have time me, right? We’re a busy culture. We all want to kind of watch our videos when we have timeBut I always love just meeting people. And then get on the website and schedule a call and we will talk. And I’ll show you the ropes and show you case studies and show you how it works. the education, right, is wide, let’s say. There’s a lot online and there’s a lot of programs they do throughout the year.
Michelle Kesil (17:10)
Yeah, definitely. I love that. think educating people is so important. So are you like walking them through this process of how to get started and what to do and just giving them the full roadmap?Jason K Powers (17:22)
Yep, yeah. So again, education, we start with education. And then after that, once you get it enough to know, okay, yeah, I want to explore how this might work for me personally now, then we’re going to set up some strategy planning meetings and start having those conversations, start talking through income, expenses, assets, liabilities, goals, objectives. What are we trying to accomplish here? And what are the numbers look like? And then that kind of allows me to move the puzzle pieces around and see what works.in your situation. And then brainstorm with you as the client and then we work together on it. Like it’s not me trying to just design your life, you it’s you got to partake in that process, you And so work together and come up with a strategy that works, that you want to implement. And then obviously it deals with life insurance and so in the end we have to get through the underwriting process of that and get approved.
And so we’re strategizing through that process and we know what we want to do by the time that offer comes back. And then when it comes back, we’re ready to implement and you are off to the races. And then continue educating, right? It’s, it’s, I’ve been in this for years and I still learn things. It’s, it’s not a set it and forget it type of approach. You get in there and you implement it and get started. And the more you use it, the more you’ll understand it.
And so continued education throughout the year. I we constantly have programs throughout the year that are just reviewing and teaching new stuff, new strategies, new case studies, things like that. So it’s a process, right?
Michelle Kesil (18:51)
Absolutely, that makes sense. So yeah, when it comes to like growing your business and connecting with new people, growing that network, what are some things that have made that big difference for you?Jason K Powers (19:02)
Well, I think just getting out there and meeting people, talking to people and getting yourself out there, know. Obviously in my business, it’s getting out there and getting in front of people and educating. You know, for the real estate investor, how do you find the deals? How do you find those deals? Well, you find the deals by, again, getting out there. Get to these networking events, get your network together. And who do you know? Who do you know that knows people?and make those connections and go to, there’s a lot of wonderful programs out there. You guys have programs built in here and there’s so many places you could learn real estate investing, but best place is really experience, right? And so at some point you have to stop learning and start doing and get out there and start doing and I think it’s that way for anything.
Michelle Kesil (19:48)
Yeah, 100%. The doing piece is necessary. So before we wrap up here, if someone wants to reach out, connect, learn more from you, where can people do that? Where can people find you?Jason K Powers (19:52)
Mm-hmm.Yeah, I think the best place to get started is on my website, 1024wealth.com slash real estate. It’s 1024wealth.com slash real estate. That’ll get you right to a page. We’ve got a free ebook on there about infinite banking. You can download the ebook. There’s a couple of on-demand webinars on there. You can schedule a meeting with me. If you want to skip all that, do all of that and schedule a call. We’ll do it all at the same time. And just get started and look into it.
You know, the ebook is free. You can get that and download it get a preliminary perspective. Watch one of the quick webinars on there. And then call me. Ask questions. Don’t self-eliminate. I always encourage people. Don’t self-eliminate if you’re like, I can never afford that. I can’t get insurance, et cetera. Let’s have that conversation because there’s a lot of peripheral ways to implement this if it can’t be on you specifically. But that’s the best place to start.
Michelle Kesil (20:51)
Absolutely.Perfect. Love that. Well, I appreciate your time, your story and your perspective. So thank you for being here.
Jason K Powers (20:58)
I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.Michelle Kesil (21:00)
Of course. And for those listeners tuning in, if you got value, make sure you’ve subscribed. We’ve got more conversations with operators just like Jason who are building real businesses. We’ll see you on our next episode.
