Unlocking Real Estate: Charles Farnsworth’s Journey Through Lending Challenges

Dylan Silver (00:01.388)
Hey folks, welcome back to the show. I’m your host, Dylan Silver, and today on the show I have lender based out of Tacoma, Washington, Charles Farnsworth. Charles, welcome to the show.

Charles Farnsworth (00:15.4)
Thanks for having me.

Dylan Silver (00:16.896)
It’s a pleasure to have you. I always like to start off at the top. We chat a little bit before hopping on here, but I always like to start off by asking you how you got into the real estate space.

Charles Farnsworth (00:25.63)
We have how much time do we have? So I started right out of college. I met a guy who was demoing houses, saw what he was doing, figured I could do the same thing, which is dangerous. Hubris is always very dangerous in his business. Didn’t have money, found some investors, bought my first house, didn’t really know what a mortgage was, rehabbed it, turned it, did it again, kept doing it.

which gave me lot of understanding of the skill sets that I understand my clients have to go through now. And this is back in 93, 94, some time ago. And then I was running into other investors who were buying properties who needed money and they asked me where I got my money. And I just happened to say, well, I have some investors that I work with and they asked, we use some of that money? I said, and then came the idea of, if I broker a deal, can I get some?

Dylan Silver (01:01.922)
Yeah.

Charles Farnsworth (01:21.736)
home points or something for that. then so I started doing that. And that quickly showed to me that that could be a very viable business in itself. And so I would do that, but I would still use the money myself. And then I started a fractional deed company to because I had more people wanting to invest. And I’m selling out of that, got into private wealth management for 10 years. And then 2008 happened and quickly saw an opportunity for private capital is going to come back because I saw

the evolution of private capital turned into what we call subprime, right? That’s really what this high return, high Wall Street came in, subprime, you could get money for free and lots of it. And private capital just wasn’t available. It sort of disappeared. And when I saw 2008 happen, I was like, okay, there’s not gonna be any money you’re gonna have to get from individuals. And so I got back into the business and as we’ve seen over the past, what, 15 years now,

Dylan Silver (02:07.704)
That’s true.

Charles Farnsworth (02:19.89)
just this industry mature. It’s now very institutional, lots of money available, but there’s still a handful of small guys out there that just don’t want to be big and want to remain small.

Dylan Silver (02:32.385)
That’s an interesting point too. This idea that money was so readily available that people didn’t need private capital and that this really was spawned from crisis. And so if it wasn’t for that, we wouldn’t have the, you know, lending gears that we have today. And so I do want to pivot though and ask you about that, that first deal, that first fix and flip. you saw someone else, you had a, a

Charles Farnsworth (02:45.244)
Yes, absolutely.

Charles Farnsworth (03:00.224)
huh.

Dylan Silver (03:02.67)
Buddy who who did one of these and then you decided I’m gonna do it myself. How’d you fuck? Do you remember the deal? How’d you find the deal? How long did it take to flip? Okay

Charles Farnsworth (03:10.226)
Yeah, it was a wholesaler. It was a wholesaler who brought me the deal. I rounded up some money to buy it. Ironically, as it’s fixing that up, he brought me another deal. And I’m like, I could do two of these. I could handle this. Picked up another deal. And as typical everybody does, didn’t have enough money to finish either one of the deals. And so then, you you move into this quickly learning panic phase and find the necessary funds to finish one, then go finish the other.

Dylan Silver (03:25.506)
Yeah, sure.

Charles Farnsworth (03:41.058)
And the second one I bought was an Assumable Farmers Home Loan. It wasn’t an Assumable Farmers Home Loan. And so when Farmers Home Loan saw a payment come from a different lender, I’m in a different bar where they called me and they said this loan is due in full. need to pay this thing off. can’t be. Uh huh. Yeah.

Dylan Silver (03:54.894)
They did the do on sale clause on ya? No, that never happens. There you go.

Charles Farnsworth (04:00.894)
second house happened to me. Yeah, exactly. So like you quickly learn, right? You just you got to pivot. You got to end. yeah, fortunately, if I finished at one, there’s enough equity in both. I went got my first institutional loan, right? I can’t remember the rate was nine and a half or something at that time. I mean, it seemed high, but now that’s kind of a going thing. Yeah. And so I got out those and was able to get some liquidity and keep moving forward. But yeah, it’s the first deals are always nerve wracking for sure.

Dylan Silver (04:28.654)
So what happened when you got effectively told that you had to pay this in full?

Charles Farnsworth (04:33.63)
Yeah, like I’m like, come get it.

come get it, you know, what do you, I knew there was going to be a process, right? And during that time I’m finishing it up. I’m trying to get refinance and main time. I can’t write a check for this. So they can’t just come get it overnight, right? They got to do something. So I started calling the bluff on it, but I was fully entitled. I was fully, you know, I was going to get out, but it just, had to, I can’t pay it. Like, yeah, I will keep making payments. If you want to come get it, you can in the meantime, feel free to call them back, but.

Dylan Silver (04:50.646)
Yeah, it’s not like, repoing a car, you know?

Dylan Silver (04:59.65)
weight on it,

Dylan Silver (05:06.466)
That’s funny because as as a wholesaler, we always say, you know, well, now I’m a real estate agent, so I can’t do the same thing. But as a a wholesaler, we always said that never happens. The do on like one is then. Yeah, second deal. Hey, man, what would an interest. So you have that experience. You’re also then seeing at that point in time that there’s a business there and then.

Charles Farnsworth (05:06.782)
There’s nothing I can really do.

Charles Farnsworth (05:12.478)
step in, just make the payments. It’s gonna be fine. Nobody will know. Second deal. They called me. I’m like, no. Yeah.

Dylan Silver (05:34.614)
You fast forward, I think you said you were an asset asset manager for a time period.

Charles Farnsworth (05:38.684)
I was in private wealth management, so I deal with generational wealth and private banking.

Dylan Silver (05:42.626)
Yeah.

A good time to be doing that, because probably a lot of people were making a lot of money.

Charles Farnsworth (05:49.246)
Well, it was good for me to understand different facets of banking and credit. so, know, have institutional banking experience. have real-time mortgage experience. I still build two to three houses a year with other investor clients and friends of mine. You have a sense of it all, right? And the interesting thing is a lot of people ask me, how do get started in this business, right?

And it’s hard to say because mine was an evolution of a lifetime of doing real estate. But now there’s with all these companies out there, there’s ways to get into the industry, you know, to just to move money if you want to move money. But it’s a great time to real estate investor right now. Well, I think in the next year or two, it’ll be better. But right now, it’s it’s a little tough. Yeah.

Dylan Silver (06:21.005)
Yeah.

Dylan Silver (06:31.886)
It really is a great time.

Dylan Silver (06:36.238)
You do kind of I mean, it’s interesting as a real estate agent, I feel bad for other agents who are just getting in because they’re trying to find homes to list. Well, if you are listing a home, then that person’s got to go move into another home unless they’ve got multiple homes and they’re just selling rental properties or something like this. So it’s a little bit difficult for agents. But then at the same point in time, I also feel like we’re and I don’t think I’m alone in thinking this like we’re either in or right around the corner from a big

Charles Farnsworth (06:51.71)
Mm-hmm.

Dylan Silver (07:05.816)
real estate event happening where there could be blood in the water. And then so… Yeah.

Charles Farnsworth (07:09.822)
Yeah, I’ve been saying that for a while. I thought I’d be here a little sooner, but I saw what happened 2008. saw, you know, I saw what was going to happen out of COVID in regards to just letting people slide. I mean, 2008, there are people who weren’t paying mortgages for like five years before banks moved, or did anything, you know?

Dylan Silver (07:26.616)
So you’re into, actually this jogs my memory. In Seattle is one of the places where like the moratoriums people were not, and this was I think federal, but Seattle too is just the epicenter of a lot of this, not paying rents for a long long time.

Charles Farnsworth (07:37.246)
Yeah. Yeah. Did enough pay? Yeah. That’s, that’s, which then caused stress on the investor who holds that got to get into a variance relationship with their bank. And then how are they going to get current instead? They have to cast their balance. I mean, yeah, it was a terrible time, but as when you’re in this business, as long as I have, you realize these strange events happen. And the problem is they’re unforeseeable. So you just, what are you going to do? Yeah. What are you going to do? Right.

Dylan Silver (07:46.316)
Yeah.

Dylan Silver (08:02.168)
Black Swan events.

Charles Farnsworth (08:05.278)
if I had known interest rates would go up 400 basis points, I would have lent a little differently, but you don’t want, that’s not part of your business plan. If that was part of your business plan, you wouldn’t go into business because you just, you can’t foresee. You can model what’s historically happened and pivot, but if something brand new happens, you just have to be ready to solve problems.

Dylan Silver (08:09.464)
Hehehehe, wait.

Dylan Silver (08:23.458)
You have to be ready to exactly and that’s the hallmark of being a successful real estate earn or operational real estate operator person for more than a handful of years because you’re going to have to pivot when 2008 happened. You were in wealth management. Of course that can be tricky in 2008.

Charles Farnsworth (08:40.446)
Well, actually in 2008, so 2006, I was in private wealth management. had a client of mine that wanted me to run a private lending company for him, stepped out and then he said, can you actually like you to run my residential lending arm instead? So I was in residential mortgages when 2008 happened. So that was another big black swan event where I ramped up this company. We were expecting to do phenomenal. And then all of a sudden the spigot shut off.

Dylan Silver (09:05.848)
Yeah.

Charles Farnsworth (09:09.776)
no loans or nothing. Huge companies went, the entire office floors went vacant the next day. Just lenders just vanished, they disappeared. And so I had to get through that event, which was fending off banks that were calling loans due. Everybody’s looking for any reason to force a broker to buy a loan back. It was terrible time.

Dylan Silver (09:29.806)
So how did you get through that?

Charles Farnsworth (09:32.574)
I basically, so I had a request for two buybacks on sizable loans, fully performing loans. They looked for anything they could find that was, so example one was they weren’t on the job for 24 months, they were on the job for 18 months, but the loan was five years old. But countrywide needed liquidity, so they were forcing anything they could find in any loan, they’re forcing people to buy back.

And we did that through a bank. sold it to Countrywide, so the bank sued us. So I was running around trying to get performing loans refinanced in a market where liquidity was drying up, which I did. So I got everything taken care of. I got all the investors taken care of. At that time, though, was running a larger organization. I didn’t have deal flow. got the danger of growing an organization, taking yourself out of the deal flow, is then you’re relying on other people for.

Dylan Silver (10:01.794)
Wow.

Dylan Silver (10:12.387)
Yeah.

Dylan Silver (10:29.934)
Deal flow. Yeah.

Charles Farnsworth (10:30.46)
your existence, right? Their ability to deal flow. Well, that quickly dried up. And so the company I left to a handful of good operator and friends of mine with some money in the bank. And I said, I got to go restart. I have to go redo. I have to start over, right? And so, but because of my experience in private capital, I knew where the next opportunity was. So I had to get everybody safely out of that. And then I packed, this is, was in Honolulu while I packed up.

Dylan Silver (10:46.115)
No.

Dylan Silver (10:53.774)
private camp.

Charles Farnsworth (10:59.326)
came back to Washington. I’m originally from Honolulu. So I was up here doing private money. Yeah, so I came up here to go to school, did a bunch of real estate, went back for 10 years for private banking at Bank of Hawaii, then came back up here when I saw capital dry up and started private capital again, pushing private capital.

Dylan Silver (11:02.862)
You’re originally from Hawaii?

Dylan Silver (11:17.486)
I didn’t know you were from Hawaii, so I have to say, anybody who’s from these just beautiful areas, I feel like if you’re sor- and I’ve heard mixed things about Hawaii, cause some people say expensive, isolated, this and that, but I’m like, look, if you’re next to the water and you’re making a halfway decent living, just like look outside, like just look outside. Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.

Charles Farnsworth (11:35.208)
Just find a way, just find a way. Yeah. It’s really expensive. It’s really tough. And I knew if I was going to raise a family, it’d be harder. You know, a lot of people have multiple generations living in households. And that wasn’t something that was going to be made available to us. yeah, so, and there’s always the idea. You can always move back, you know. But then I’m pretty well, yeah. Born and raised, my wife too, yeah.

Dylan Silver (11:57.656)
So did you grow up there? You grew up there, okay. So, you know, I have a question just about the area. maybe I should ask you this at the end too, but with the growth of people doing work without borders and remote and remote and you know, I’ve seen it in lending for sure, a lot in lending. I’ve seen it a lot with wholesale. I haven’t seen it with real estate agents, because you got to get your license in so many different places. But certainly in those two spaces, you know,

Charles Farnsworth (12:20.808)
Correct, yeah, you gotta get the F.

Dylan Silver (12:26.026)
It seems like everyone’s going, I don’t know what’s in the water in Florida, but everyone’s going out to Florida. I said, your business, I spoke to a guy, his business was in Wisconsin. He’s like, yeah, I’m moving down to South Florida. I said, why? I’m jealous now. What’s going on? So are we gonna see something like that maybe to Hawaii? Cause if they’re going to Florida.

Charles Farnsworth (12:43.038)
No, it’s too, it’s, it’s so, if you’re in real estate, it’s tough. It’s, it’s a very captured Island, right? So for all it is great. Cause there’s sprawl and there’s growing, there’s sprawling and there’s a, there’s a lot of wealth that is in Florida. So if you’re a real estate investor and you want to be sure that you have other investors around, there’s wealth around and people who are, um, opportunistic, you know, it’s a good place to be, but Hawaii is not, it’s, it’s a completely different animal and get anything done to build anything extremely expensive.

Dylan Silver (12:50.562)
Yeah.

Dylan Silver (13:09.963)
isolated, you know.

Charles Farnsworth (13:12.912)
land to build cost is land is two, build cost is one. it’s two to one. So it’s, it doesn’t feel comfortable. It’s not that it doesn’t work. That’s just how that is. And it makes a lot of people uncomfortable. We do do, I do, I have a builder out in Hilo that I do fund new construction with though. And I’ve been doing that for a while. So, and I’m, because I’m from there, we’ll look at certain types of deals out of Hawaii. We tend to do business in regions where we’re in. So.

Dylan Silver (13:19.182)
It doesn’t work. The math isn’t math.

Dylan Silver (13:24.653)
Mm.

Dylan Silver (13:41.443)
Yeah.

Charles Farnsworth (13:42.17)
Hawaii, Washington, we have a principal in Utah. So we do Utah. Yeah, so.

Dylan Silver (13:47.63)
I always think that all these areas when I have people that are in Southern California I haven’t had anyone in Hawaii. This is the first conversation about but you know Florida Southern California and they’ve got this view in the background that just looks like a green screen I’m like stop it. I’m jealous now. I’m jealous. Well, maybe not Hawaii, but at least I’ll have to make my way out there but I do want to ask you about bridge loans because we talked a little bit about that before hopping on here and I’m familiar with what a bridge loan is and

Charles Farnsworth (14:00.872)
Yeah.

Charles Farnsworth (14:07.311)
Ha ha ha

Dylan Silver (14:17.666)
We chatted briefly about kind of this idea where it’s probably, you don’t go in thinking I’m gonna need a bridge loan, right? So normally, you think…

Charles Farnsworth (14:23.908)
No, people go to construction and then generally to perm and normally their construction only gives enough time to rent up or stabilize to get to perm but that’s tough, that can be tough.

Dylan Silver (14:27.532)
You know, you get in

Dylan Silver (14:35.596)
Yeah, so in most cases I’m thinking people are looking for an exit and it doesn’t happen immediately and then they’re needing a way to not pay so much interest and therefore they’re pivoting on a dime. Are you coming in and is it many cases like they’re in a state of do or die or are they thinking, well, we have at least a game plan of some kind?

Charles Farnsworth (15:02.818)
The interesting thing is depends on the property, right? Single family could be challenging. So the individual investor who is trying to do something and can’t get to the finish line depends what it is. If they’re trying to refi and they don’t have rental income, I don’t do a lot of bridge loans there. Most of my single family stuff are fix and flips. They’re I want to get in, I want to get out, right? Where we see bridge loan problems are larger multifamily properties.

Where, for example, I got a 44 unit apartment building the other day called they needed, I don’t know, 15, 10 or $15 million. Probably because their underlying construction lender needed out and they were 25 % occupied. So most lenders might look at that and say, well, debt service coverage, there isn’t any, so that’s hard. You don’t have enough cash reserves, that’s hard. So we looked at it, to me there was enough…

There’s enough room in the loan value to build an interest reserve to try to get them there. So essentially fund our own payments to get them to stabilization. And based on that stabilization, that would give them a good debt service coverage ratio based on a different rate. Cause our rate is obviously high. So it’s doesn’t, it’s not a long-term penciling. It’s, it’s a premium to get to a desired exit, right? And that desired exit can be

Dylan Silver (16:25.112)
And in that case, yeah.

Charles Farnsworth (16:27.132)
Yeah, even if you want to sell it, you still want to lease it up so you get the most for it or you’re going to be preyed upon. But best case scenario, the permanent financing shows up. Worst case scenario, they got to sell it. But at least they have the opportunity to sell it and do good, do OK on it because they got to leased up.

Dylan Silver (16:43.822)
So in that case, you’re really banking on, we have to get this occupied. We have to get this close to 100 % occupied. And then don’t fall for the lowest and quickest offer. We have to say, look, we’ve got it 100 % leased out. This is our asking price.

Charles Farnsworth (17:03.09)
Yeah, or like I said, they’re trying to get a refi, they want it for long term hold, you know, you don’t, most people don’t generally flip apartment buildings, they build them to hold them, you know, and yeah, so then they get the permit financing, and permit financing has, has so everything has a parking lot that the next lender needs to back into, right? So they might have, they might have HUD housing or some sort of government programs that might be 85 % loan to value, right?

Dylan Silver (17:09.41)
Yeah. So looking for the long-term hold, the finance.

Charles Farnsworth (17:29.534)
The construction lender won’t go more than 60 % loan value. If you finish it and you got now this gap of equity, but you don’t have the cashflow to get to the exit, we can use that as the interest carry. Does that make sense? So we’re this bridge in the middle that tries to create a solution to get to back into that parking stall. We have to be sure we underwrite. So when you go to back into that, it works. For example, if they’re only going to do 85%,

Dylan Silver (17:41.74)
Yeah. Yeah.

Charles Farnsworth (17:58.78)
You know, we don’t want you to back into it at 90 or, know, we, got to, this ball has to be big enough to get back into. Yeah. And that’s not a perfect sign. That’s not a perfect science. And what we run into a lot of times is when they get there, the lender who made all these promises eight months ago is like, things have changed and we need now this, we need that, you know, that is the risk people take, but they don’t have many other options other than to fire sale it or let it go into fault.

Dylan Silver (18:05.048)
Now for bridge loans… Yeah.

Dylan Silver (18:24.684)
Right.

Charles Farnsworth (18:26.94)
which then clouds title, which makes it harder in the future to get that perm fina… It’s, you know, it gets to that difficult phase. So our goal is to try to prevent the car from getting too scratched up. So, you know, the perm financing people are happy to take a look at it.

Dylan Silver (18:42.668)
Now, when you’re looking at these deals and when they’re coming across your desk, how do people find bridge financing? they’re probably not in a spot where they’re able to take their time, right? They can’t just, know, tipsy-toe around in pool.

Charles Farnsworth (18:54.942)
A of times we get lot of that from our brokers. So I have a handful of relationships with brokers. And again, we’re fortunate in that we’re a small niche fund. So if you’re a big massive originator, just say you can do everything to everyone. You bring in everything you can and you do some, sell some, give some to a broker. I establish relationships with a handful of brokers that I know well, that know what I do well, that have enough business that generally can drive enough to me. Cause I don’t want to, I don’t like saying no.

so large we can just keep saying yes. So I don’t subscribe to the overmarket principle even though there’s some value in doing that because you can get the better deals but you know start saying no to a lot so many deals yeah and then you got to look at a lot of stuff which we are what I call right sized where we don’t have the capacity to do certain activities right that doesn’t make sense to us so

Dylan Silver (19:37.08)
then you have to say no to so many people. Yeah.

Dylan Silver (19:49.4)
Yeah, mean, we were talking about this too. This idea that a lot of hard money lenders are not lending their own money, you know, and that even the people that are getting the loans and borrowers may not be aware of that. And so when, in the niche that you’re in, is, you you’re on the deal, right? So it’s really more invested, right? So it’s a…

Charles Farnsworth (19:58.45)
Mm-hmm.

Dylan Silver (20:19.136)
It’s a different kind of relationship there.

Charles Farnsworth (20:21.818)
Yes, it’s our funds. So family that I work with or work for is the Corliss family, the five generations, Gravel business. We have a development side. We develop multifamily properties. We have a master plan community. And so we understand real estate costs more and takes longer all the time. And so when we go in to deal with the client,

If it works perfectly, I’m surprised. Put it that way. So I’m prepared that might go a little longer. I’m prepared they might run low on funds. I try to structure the deal so they have to try to cover that. But obviously, if that doesn’t happen, it’s not in my best interest to not finish something that needs an extra 10, 15 grand. Right? Let’s finish it. Yeah, we’re not finishing time, but let’s finish it. Let’s get it listed. Let’s get it sold. As long as the client’s calling me and working with me and trying, then I’m in the car with them.

Dylan Silver (21:07.15)
Yeah.

Charles Farnsworth (21:18.876)
stop calling me, then you know, I got I got problems. But yeah, yeah, I got lots. But that’s why I encourage people who are first getting into this business to try to find a smaller lender, try to find somebody who’s making those decisions. There’s actually a handful of just private investors. I mean, I started my business, putting out private investors money, you can go to them directly, but

Dylan Silver (21:22.062)
a little more concerned.

Charles Farnsworth (21:43.206)
My clients want to talk to me, wanted me to handle all that. so I got, you know, but they’re, they’re out there. And if you can find one that’s pretty well healed and understands business, it’s easy to work with, it’s not too quirky. then, you know, it’s much more comfortable because they also realize if things go wrong, they’ll work with you. You know, they don’t necessarily want to own the thing. they want to protect their money. The problem with the commoditization and the institutionalization of private money now or hard money now is you’re.

the customization is gone. They have metrics, they’re selling these. If they sold these and it’s not performing, the person who owns it dictates how that’s gonna be managed. Sometimes there’s buyback provisions where that other learner needs to buy it back. And if they have to buy it back and they do, and they have capital for that, then they can manage that on their own and then try to fix the problem. But if it’s sold and it passes the seasoning period and now it doesn’t perform very well, now you’re subject to these guys.

Dylan Silver (22:16.834)
Yeah.

Charles Farnsworth (22:41.724)
in Wall Street or wherever securitized and they’re, they don’t write extra checks typically. They just foreclose, right? Right. Right. Right. And so that’s where you can tell, that’s where you get a sense of what’s going on with who your lender is. And so I always tell people, ask them when it goes sideways, what happens? Like, do you work with me? Is it, cause at that point you can ask the question, are these sold? You know, what,

Dylan Silver (22:49.922)
Yeah, that’s exactly right. There’s no flexibility. That’s exactly right.

Charles Farnsworth (23:11.358)
what’s gonna happen, you I think that’s important because I’ve never, majority of deals just don’t go, at least the ones I, I’m not saying I make bad loans, but they don’t, real estate is highly unpredictable animal, you know? Even the best people will tear into a wall and go, no, I didn’t see or expect that, right? Lots, yes, lots, yeah.

Dylan Silver (23:13.358)
For sure.

Dylan Silver (23:18.67)
according to plan 100%. Yeah.

Dylan Silver (23:25.548)
hugely.

Dylan Silver (23:31.758)
How many times has that happened? Many times, most times, most times. Charles, we are coming up on time here. Where can folks go to maybe learn more about the work that you’re involved in and maybe reach out to you?

Charles Farnsworth (23:44.924)
Yeah, so anybody can reach out to me anytime by email. My email is CharlesF at 1892capital.com. You can also give me a call. I love talking about the business. I love helping people. I’ve been in this business a long time. I just like it, right? Even if I don’t do a deal, if somebody’s got a question or cares about something, I’m happy to take a call. My telephone is 253-

5923452. If I don’t pick up right away, I’ll do my best to get back to you. Yeah, but we do focus in Washington, Utah, typically in Hawaii. So if you have deals in those areas, fix and flip, ground up new construction. I mean, we do everything. So I recommend people to try the credit tree. Start at the top. Do you fit the criteria at the top? If you’re working down and you kind of fit, but there’s some underwriting issues, don’t fit.

still want to do this and you’re down here that’s generally when I’m more helpful because I if you come to me and I see you’re better for I’ll tell you go call them or go call them you’re going to get a better deal than working with me if if you’re new and experienced and but you have a lot of you have more cash reserves and they won’t take you because you don’t have experience then yeah maybe maybe we can take a look at you you know so I’m kind of I don’t like to sell myself as a lender of last resort but I do because then I don’t I don’t want to be

We don’t generally compete over price. Our business models, we are lending money to solve a problem that another lender or working on an opportunity that another lender didn’t see or is hamstrung by their underwriting for whatever reason. That’s what we exist for.

Dylan Silver (25:25.44)
a very specific niche. you know, it’s really been interesting to talk to all the people in the lending space. And the more that I’ve spoken to lenders, the more I realized that even though it’s been it’s evolved from where it started, there’s still so much variance from lending. Like, it’s not like you just check a bunch of boxes and therefore you go to a lender and it’s just going to be the same. It’s completely different and it’s specific. And, you know, in talking with

Charles Farnsworth (25:28.243)
Yeah.

Dylan Silver (25:53.996)
yourself, had that impression. each lender is entirely different. But Charles, thank you so much for coming on the show here today.

Charles Farnsworth (26:00.474)
Absolutely, Dylan. Yeah, anytime. Love to talk about the business. So feel free to give me a call anytime.