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Show Summary
In this conversation, Moses Hall, a commercial real estate developer and broker in Chicago, shares his journey into the real estate industry, emphasizing the importance of foundational training for new realtors. He discusses the unique challenges and opportunities in the commercial real estate landscape, including the significance of government contracts and the role of local municipalities in development. Moses highlights the pressing need for affordable housing in Chicago and the innovative solutions being explored, such as accessory dwelling units (ADUs). He encourages aspiring developers to build relationships within the community and navigate the complexities of the real estate market with patience and persistence.
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Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
Moses Hall (00:00)
You really have to, before you start diving into a project ⁓ in a certain area or radius, you really have to understand what that local government wants in their area. Does it coincide with what they foresee in the plans that they want for their area? I think a lot of developers just see a plot of land and it’s, I’m going to build this, you know, you know,skyscraper here and maybe that’s not what the municipality wants.
Dylan Silver (01:50)
Hey folks, welcome back to the show. Today’s guest Moses Hall with Mohall Commercial and Urban Development is a developer broker commercial investor in Chicago. Moses, welcome to the show.Moses Hall (02:04)
Thanks for having me. Appreciate the opportunity.Dylan Silver (02:06)
It’s great to have you on here, great to meet you. And I always like to start off at the top of this show by asking guests how they got started in real estate.Moses Hall (02:16)
So yeah, I got licensed as a realtor ⁓ in January, 2014 is where I got my start in real estate. I just had graduated college and like most college graduates, I was trying to figure out that next career move. And I always had a passion for real estate, even though I didn’t go to college for it, but that was something that I always wanted to do and always wanted to invest and always want to develop. However, as a recentcollege grad, didn’t have much funds to get straight into investment or development nor that know how to. And so I thought the best way for me to kind of get that boots on the ground experience and build my resume is to enter as a commercial broker. And so I started my career in 2014 as a broker. I started more at a boutique residential firm, but I was kind of the commercial guy. And over the years I’ve been able to build my
book a business, learn the industry, learn how to analyze deals, make investments and kind of foresee where the future ⁓ of the market is going. And so that’s kind of a little brief overview of my start into commercial real estate.
Dylan Silver (03:25)
Now, I’m a realtor in Texas. got licensed earlier this year. Do you have any guidance for folks who may be aspiring realtors or new realtors and wanting to get in on the commercial side? And it seems like you got in on the commercial side right away.Moses Hall (03:42)
Yeah, absolutely. One thing I would invest in as a new realtor or spying realtor is wherever you decide to hang your real estate license, make sure that brokerage has good training. I know obviously when we first get in, we’re trying to chase the commission and the money, but the biggest thing is building that foundation. And I think that’s kind of what helped me in the success of my career is having a good training at the brokerage that I was at. SoThat’s really going to secure your future is understanding foundational principles of how to do a real estate deal. And that’s going to come through your managing broker or the real estate brokerage you decide to hang your license with.
Dylan Silver (04:24)
So getting into the commercial space, it’s of course a totally different beast than the residential space. Deal cycle is longer. There’s kind of more riding on it. Well, there is more riding on it. There’s more risk, more reward, but you know, people can spend lots and lots of time and have a deal fall through and it can be devastating because these deals take longer to matriculate. Walk me through those first couple years, what it was like.you know, earning your stripes as ⁓ a newer realtor in the commercial space.
Moses Hall (05:43)
Yeah, it takes a while. know with the glitz and glam of social media and reality shows, we think every deal is going to be a million dollar deal is going to hit it right out the park. You’re to come home with this fat commission check, but it takes time. It takes grind. It takes patience. definitely going to take a couple of months to a year to get that first deal. You have to kind of hit the ground running, reach out to your spirit of influence. For me, I was able to start with small local investors.that we’re here in Chicago, we have what’s called two to three units. So it’s a condensed apartment building with two or three units and under one roof. And so that’s still considered residential, but for me, as my investors portfolio grew, then my business grew. So they may have initially started out with a two, three unit. Like I have a perfect example. I represented a investor.
He used the FHA loan that is a home loan that allows you to buy ⁓ with a lower down payment. He lived in one unit, rented out the other unit. We bought it. think the purchase price was like $300,000. We ended up selling it. He made some minor improvements to it. He ended up selling it a couple of years later for over $600,000, almost $700,000.
Dylan Silver (07:08)
the cow.Moses Hall (07:09)
And so, and then what we ended up doing is taking those proceeds and he ended up growing his portfolio to scale up to a larger commercial multifamily building. And so that’s kind of an example of how my clientele grew and the commercial people started out small, buying a multi-unit, lived in one when it was time to cash out, they would take those funds and upgrade.to larger commercial buildings within the Chicago lane area. So you start with a small base and then scaled up. And so that’s kind of how I built my book of business.
Dylan Silver (07:48)
Right. Right. And we were talking before the show as well. ⁓ You work with investors. You’re a developer. You also do government contracts, which frankly is new to me. I don’t know much about how this interfaces with real estate. You’re the first person that I’ve spoken with who does government contracts while also doing real estate. So walk me through. I’m assuming these are real estate related contracts. What is a typical contract look like?Moses Hall (07:55)
Yeah. Yeah.Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
So oftentimes we have what’s called a request for proposal, RFPs that a local municipality government agency will put out seeking representation. And so I often submit for these things. My firm gets hired. And so a prime example, there was a local municipality here in the Chicago land area that had a commercial corridor that was blighted, vacant, run down.
and they wanted to turn it into the arts district for their local municipality. And so I’ve been tasked to redevelop and put parcels and packages together to redevelop this area. And so we’ve been super successful in putting ⁓ music schools, ⁓ art galleries, all different types of stuff into a corridor that was once blighted.
And so I was hired by the local government agency to revitalize because they had these properties in their possession. Oftentimes, you know, I know we had the big 2008 market crash and a lot of businesses closed down, a lot of vacancies happened and certain areas were not able to recover. And so they, you know, bring on professionals to help them. ⁓
Dylan Silver (09:20)
Yeah.Moses Hall (09:39)
revitalize these blighted areas. And so I had the opportunity to do things like that. So I do a lot of consultant work. represent banks. Oftentimes banks get back ⁓ properties in their possession and so working with them. So those are the type of opportunities in terms of economic development and revitalizing blighted communities.Dylan Silver (10:33)
Now, when we talk about developing and then also working with investors, my background as a Texas licensed realtor, I almost feel like, and this isn’t true overall, maybe, but there’s certain people in Texas that feel this way, that you have to almost come into conflict with, you know, the people who are at the permitting office and the people who you need approvals from for so many different types of projects.Moses Hall (10:45)
Yeah.Dylan Silver (11:01)
from building out a subdivision to putting up storage facility, basically anything that you need, right? But what I understand about Chicago, which is really unique, is this process is even more cumbersome than in most other places. So there’s really no way where you can ⁓ try to get something through quickly, because it’s most likely gonna be a longer, more drawn out process. Now, you’re able to workwith the government, with these municipalities, doing these government contracts. So you must have a really interesting perspective of how all of this works and also to how the cities plan for their growth.
Moses Hall (11:48)
Yeah, I mean, You really have to, before you start diving into a project ⁓ in a certain area or radius, you really have to understand what that local government wants in their area. Does it coincide with what they foresee in the plans that they want for their area? I think a lot of developers just see a plot of land and it’s, I’m going to build this, you know, you know,skyscraper here and maybe that’s not what the municipality wants.
I think sometimes the challenge comes in with not understanding not just what the local government wants, but what the community wants. What is the community outcry? Cause that’s a lot of the challenge that developers faces understanding even though sometimes certain projects will benefit the community. Sometimes certain communities don’t quite understand what is being proposed. And I think as developers,
We have to educate not only the government, ⁓ people that hold government seats, but also the community. think there’s a ⁓ barrier in language. think with Chicago, we allow, know, the, the, cause you know, in certain markets, they’re very tenant protection. I saw that there, there, there’s a market in DC. Someone had rented an Airbnb, but they did it for
Dylan Silver (13:05)
Sure, sure.Moses Hall (13:13)
32 days and because they did it for 32 days versus like 28 days, they created a Tennessee right. And so that Airbnb landlord had to take this tenant to eviction court and it took almost a year to get them out. And so I bring up that example is because oftentimes as investors, developers, we have a hard time communicating our value and what we bring.And so oftentimes when they lobby for certain legislation and laws, they bring those heartfelt stories versus they look at investors, developers as the big guys and you have all this disposable income and you’re gentrifying the neighborhood. And we need to tell the stories of those that are mom and pop landlords. Those are small scale developers. Cause we, everyone plays a part. I think
Some of the struggle that you kind of mentioned is that we’re not getting our stories heard. How, like I said, you know, someone that bought a small multi-unit and was able to build their real estate portfolio over the years. They sent their kids to college, they opened up other businesses and to see how they are a productive member of society. And now maybe they want to do a ground up development to do affordable housing. We need to tell, tell that story. And I think that’s kind of where the challenge.
Dylan Silver (14:33)
Yeah.Moses Hall (14:39)
comes in is that we’re not magnifying our voices in terms of the good work that we do as investors and developers. We just seen as the big billionaires, like everybody in development and investor is this. Yeah. Yeah. And so that narrative gets created and then it makes it harder to do deals because we’re not getting our stories told. And so I think that’s part of the challenge is working hand in hand.Dylan Silver (14:53)
We’re making money. Hand over tickets.Moses Hall (15:08)
with the municipality, making sure that we control the narrative of what’s kind of going on and then kind of taking it from there. And that’ll kind of help get your project off your ground when you can create that story that’s a heartfelt story and how you’re transforming other communities and other lives.Dylan Silver (16:07)
Now, are most people in the development space aware that they can look for and bid on these government contracts? You’re the first person that I’ve spoken with who’s brought this to my attention. So I’m thinking there’s developers who this isn’t even on their radar. It’s something that they could do, not just as another source of income for themselves, but also because you got to know the people that youMoses Hall (16:32)
Yeah.Dylan Silver (16:36)
Need to know for business.Moses Hall (16:38)
Yeah, yeah. I, it’s, public when you’re working with government agencies, this is public record. has to go on their agenda. If they’re having a board meeting and so everything is accessible to the public. Oftentimes. Now there are certain levels, certain platforms in order to get access to the RFPs and nowhere that’s that you do have to pay a subscription for it. But I just seen, for example, thatThe city of Detroit just released an RFP for developers. have ⁓ parcels of land that they want multifamily affordable housing to be built on. And so they put a call out to developers to submit their proposals, to see past projects, different things of that nature. So that is a way to kind of get in on certain development deals is to kind of ⁓ partner with the local municipalities. Oftentimes you can tap into what we call
TIF funds, TIF districts, grants, all that type of stuff to kind of make the deal make sense. Because sometimes as developers, especially with the rising construction costs, labor shortages, sometimes it’s hard to pencil deals at market. But if you can get a source from the government that can add to your capital stack, it can make the process a little bit more easier in putting the deal together.
Dylan Silver (17:59)
Now, when we’re talking, getting a little bit granular here, Moses, when we’re talking about Chicago development, mean, Chicago is one of the biggest cities, right? And people may not have a experience living in Chicago. Almost everybody been through Chicago and they understand just the scope and how big it is. There’s other cities that I can compare it to, but Chicago is so unique for so many reasons.Moses Hall (18:04)
Yeah.Yeah. Yeah.
Yes, yeah.
Yeah. Yes.
Dylan Silver (18:27)
If someone is is in the development space and they’re trying to identify, well, what what is the need for this municipality? And maybe they’re a newer developer, right? I understand it’s going to be, you know, a longer process for them to get this deal approved. Would affordable housing be a good place to start? I know you mentioned Detroit, of course, different city. But affordable housing seems to be like something that all people can generally get behind it is.Moses Hall (18:37)
Yeah.Yeah.
Dylan Silver (18:54)
Chicago and the various different municipalities within Chicago, are they looking for more affordable housing?Moses Hall (19:01)
I think that is the goal. Everyone, I think, and that’s why a lot of legislation is happening ⁓ that are more pro-tenants is because we do need affordable housing. However, I think oftentimes government agencies, because they have so many bills to look at, it’s hard for them to be fully educated about things within real estate. And so I think the,intent in terms of good intent is there, but to actually get a project across the finish line is where the challenge is in affordable housing. Like I said, I know the numbers is kind of where, where a lot of developers struggle. It’s just trying to make sure that the numbers make sense. know that, ⁓ Chicago has, you know, vacant office buildings and downtown, and they were talking about converting them to affordable housing. And it’s just trying to get from point a to point Z, but
There are opportunities. They are looking for affordable housing projects. It just takes time. As we kind of previously mentioned, it’s not going to be an overnight thing, but a developer that is doing good work ⁓ on the South side of Chicago and it’s learned how to pull the grants and get the local city participation. His name is Leon Walker, DL3 ⁓ Realty. They are doing a great job in terms of affordable housing.
and bring in ⁓ commercial retail to the South side of Chicago. But those projects take years to kind of get approval and know, penciling the deals, getting your capital stacked together. So we are seeing projects completed, but you just have to have the patience and understand how city hall works. You do have to have boots on the ground. I wouldn’t recommend if you’re just kind of out of state.
Dylan Silver (20:39)
Yeah.Moses Hall (20:58)
trying to do some development, you do have to have relationships. It is a relationship city to kind of move things along. Like you said, zoning, permitting, all those different types of things. You want to have those relationships and know who the right law firms are, who the alderman is, all these type of things. But there is opportunity in Chicago, as you kind of mentioned, we’re the third largest metropolitan city. We have one of the most expansive international airports, our railroad system, our workforce. have one oftop medical schools. We’re trying to be a tech hub. have Google, we have Facebook, we have what used to be called Twitter X here. ⁓ So there’s a lot of major corporations. McDonald’s is headquartered here. So there’s a lot of opportunity and the workforce need housing. And so I think it is an opportunity for developers to invest here. We also, I just saw that the Obama library ⁓ is planning to open
in June of 2026. So that’s going to create a lot of economic development and housing needs and different business needs. So there’s a lot of opportunity in the city of Chicago.
Dylan Silver (22:08)
Now, there’s so much to talk about in the affordable housing segment. truly, whether it’s Chicago, whether it’s Detroit, whether it’s Texas, where I’m licensed or anywhere, there’s so many different strategies that people are looking at. I’ve heard even in Los Angeles that they’re very big on ADU’s dwelling units that people can put. ⁓ Do you know if Chicago is looking at anything similar to that? Or is it more so people are looking atMoses Hall (22:26)
Yes. Yes.Dylan Silver (22:37)
I would say more traditional ⁓ multifamily housing apartment complexes, that type of thing.Moses Hall (22:44)
No, actually Chicago is exploring other alternatives like ADUs and making those legal and compliant with the city to ⁓ have additional housing. housing, we know that we need more affordable housing. I think where the disconnect is, is how do we tie that gap? And I think that’s where ⁓ markets, government have to come together and kind of figure out a solution. But those are proposals on the table.They are exploring those things as well. I do think sometimes people look for quick plugins like rent control. That’s not necessarily a great ⁓ approach in affordable housing as we see in other markets ⁓ that it does the reverse of what the intended goal is. I think one of the best ways to kind of lower housing costs is to cut some of the red tape.
on development. I think Chicago does have an initiative with that. It’s called Cut the Red Tape, where we can kind of cut down on some of the permit, waiting on permits, zoning, all those different types of things. So there are initiatives out there. It’s just about the execution of getting it from point A to point Z. ⁓
Dylan Silver (23:58)
Now we are coming up on time here Moses, where can folks go? Where can our audience go if they’re interested in reaching out to you? Maybe they’ve got a deal that they’d like you to look at. Maybe they’re aspiring developer in the Chicago area would like some feedback based on what they’ve got going on. How can folks reach out to you?Moses Hall (24:15)
You can find me on all social media platforms at Moses. M O S E S last name hall. H A L L I’m on Instagram. I’m on Facebook. I’m on LinkedIn. You can find me on all those platforms. Shoot me a message. If you have any questions, I’ll answer immediately. Please. ⁓ like I said, please find me. I definitely look forward to helping the next generation of developers. And even if you’re a current developer, please reach out. There’s a lot of knowledge that I can share to kind of help you kind of scale your portfolio.Dylan Silver (24:44)
Moses, thank you so much for coming on the show today.Moses Hall (24:47)
Thanks for the opportunity.
