Tracking KPIs, Smarter Leads, and Real Mentorship (with Shadd Boucher)

Shadd Boucher (00:00)

Well, you know, it’s basically paying attention to your business, understanding your numbers. You know, that’s the problem with most real estate brokers. know, brokers, agents, they don’t track. They don’t run numbers. They have no idea where their business is coming from. They have no idea what the split is between buyers, sellers, investors, renters. They have no idea and they can’t track trends. You know, what gets measured gets improved. What gets measured gets done. And I think in a lot of ways, agents are really, really horrible at running a

business.

Dylan Silver (02:01)

Hey folks, welcome back to the show. Today’s guest is the managing broker at Remax Alliance Group in Florida, the largest Remax franchise. Please welcome Shadd Boucher. Shadd, welcome to the show.

Shadd Boucher (02:15)

Hey, glad to be here.

Dylan Silver (02:16)

Great to have you on. We were chatting before hopping on here. ⁓ I’m a big fan of Tampa, I really am. ⁓ But before we get into that, I do want to ask you, backing all the way up to the beginning, how did you get into the real estate space?

Shadd Boucher (02:31)

Well, I was actually brought in, believe it or not, by a broker who said that he would basically pay for my real estate school back when that used to be a thing. And if I worked for him for a year, he would basically bankroll me into doing it. I was in retail at that time and I jumped in and I’ve been doing it ever since, about 25 years now.

Dylan Silver (02:50)

I asked this because there’s a lot of people who have friends family in the real estate space but then you have just as many people who don’t know anybody and I was one of the people that didn’t know anybody. Did you have already conception about the real estate space Jeff Foss that you have relatives friends family or was this at that point in time something totally new.

Shadd Boucher (03:10)

It was completely new, completely different. was literally, ⁓ I was in my 20s. I was renting an apartment. I had no concept of buying a house, had no thoughts of buying a house. ⁓ Basically what this gentleman told me was, if you could sell me this, it was luxury sunglasses and watches at the time, then you should be selling houses. And that’s kind of how I got into it. I mean, I’ve always been in sales, but this was just sort of an evolution. And then when I actually did get into this, I found that not only

Did I enjoy it? But it was like something I was number one, good at, and number two, really, really loved.

Dylan Silver (03:43)

I want to ask you about managing so many agents and 102 people that you manage with the Alliance Group. But before we get into that, I want to ask you about the first couple of years in real estate. Because we were talking before hopping on here about the differences then versus now. Walk me through that first year, the first two years in real estate. What was your experience like? And then also, what did you think of the space when you were just getting started?

Shadd Boucher (04:57)

Well, the space when I first getting started was like almost tech phobic. I ⁓ was a technology kid. My dad was always on the bleeding edge. He was in mobile telecom for 40 years. I had a pager when I was in the eighties. I had cell phones in my life in the early nineties. So I was always a technology kid. And when I got to the space, it was backwards. mean, the MLS was still a book at that time. They were just transitioning to an online version.

which by the way Realtors thought was gonna be the apocalypse. The fact that we were gonna give the customer the ability to go online and look at public records and all those things. And I will say that I really found my comfort level with technology to be a great advantage. ⁓ I was actually on the forefront of ⁓ online leads that before the Zillows and all that of the world, it was 0.2 agent, 0.2 systems, which was out there.

Dylan Silver (05:41)

Hmm.

Shadd Boucher (05:52)

And at that time, those leads were converting at 37 % if you knew how to work with them, and most agents didn’t, nor did they want to.

Dylan Silver (05:57)

goodness. Yeah.

I want to specifically I want to get a little bit granular on the leads. Yeah right. Because when people talk about leads I think there is generally speaking this this idea that OK well I could go this route I could go you know paid leads I could just strictly work my you know hot 100 list.

As someone who’s been on all sides of it, when do you think is kind of the right time for an agent to start considering to buy leads for themselves?

Shadd Boucher (06:25)

It depends on the size of their sphere. Honestly, when they get into the business, if you have a circle of 100 people that will answer their phone, go to lunch with you that you know, then really to tell you the truth, you need to work those and work them properly. ⁓ I was a Brian Bafini trained agent when I was young. I’m a big relationship person. Like I said, I came from sales. So relationship has always been the way I’ve liked to sell. But if you’re new to an area, if you just moved somewhere or you’re

transitioning from a job that necessarily doesn’t have sales in its background and you don’t have a sphere, then absolutely buying leads to build that sphere is fantastic. I have an agent that’s doing that right now. They’ve been 20 years in the business, but they moved here from Canada. They don’t know anybody. And so they’re rebuilding their business basically while they still have their business running in Canada. So they’re buying leads and they’re calling. That’s what they’re doing.

Dylan Silver (07:09)

Yeah.

I want to ask the question that I thought about when we were talking about 100 people in the Alliance script that you’re directly managing. think, especially for new agents, when they’re starting out, they’re looking at, OK, what are my goals? I want to build a large team? Do I want to have a lot of personal production? There’s so many different ways to make a career in real estate. Did you intentionally set out on, OK, I’m going to be

managing broker and I’m going to have a large team underneath me or did was this a progression that happened with time?

Shadd Boucher (07:50)

complete progression. was a producer for about 15 years and the downturn started happening in Florida. It actually started happening in 05. That’s when the market started crashing. It didn’t nationally hit the news till 08, but it started crashing in Florida in 05-06. I didn’t have enough industry knowledge to know what was happening, but I knew something was happening from coming from,

being in sales and running other stores in retail, I could read a P &L and I could see that the trending line was going the wrong way. So I knew something was coming. And at that time, I had just gotten married, just had a baby. And there was a large brokerage for Century 21 that was offering a five year contract to become the manager. You know, here’s a salary, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, that’s a safe space to park until I figure out what to do. And, you know, I’ve been in this 25 years and I’ve pivoted multiple times and

Dylan Silver (08:41)

Thanks.

Shadd Boucher (08:45)

I don’t see myself pivoting again, but I’ve had to reinvent myself a couple of times in this business, for sure.

Dylan Silver (08:51)

I want

to talk about those pivots. You you mentioned having to pivot multiple times. It’s interesting being a host of the show because I’ve been able to talk with so many different avatar of real estate operator, investor, you know, people that do mortgages, folks that are in direct lending, you know, even trades companies that are real estate tangent and heavily involved, let’s say in fix and flip.

The hallmark that I’ve noticed of an effective real estate operator, someone who’s been doing it, you know, more than five years is they’ve had to pivot. And it can be very uncomfortable at times. Other times people realize, okay, if I don’t do this, I’m going to, you know, sink.

One of the big ways that I saw a pivot pretty much across the board was anyone who was doing mortgages before 2008 kind of had to switch to stay afloat. And that whole game changed. ⁓

When you’ve gone through pivots in your business, walk me through the conditions that have created those pivots, but then also too, how do you evaluate when the right time is to make the pivot?

Shadd Boucher (10:29)

Well, you know, it’s basically paying attention to your business, understanding your numbers. You know, that’s the problem with most real estate brokers. know, brokers, agents, they don’t track. They don’t run numbers. They have no idea where their business is coming from. They have no idea what the split is between buyers, sellers, investors, renters. They have no idea and they can’t track trends. You know, what gets measured gets improved. What gets measured gets done. And I think in a lot of ways, agents are really, really horrible at running a

business.

And I think one of the advantages I have is I had a business acumen before coming to this. So I’ve always run my business like a business. ⁓ You know, I’ve helped agents before, you know, pivot their business like they have no idea where their business is coming from. So we sit down, we talk about it. I had one agent we discovered he was spending $5,000 a month on Zillow and $200 a month on his church circular. He was sponsoring his church circular because he felt he needed to.

Once we analyzed where all of his business came from, we figured out that 80 % of his business came from a $200 investment. And basically, we doubled down on the church circular and dropped Zillow. And his business skyrocketed. But I think that’s one of the problems with agents is they don’t track. And if you don’t track, you don’t have the ability to see into the future. And you can’t read trends. You have no idea what’s going on. And you don’t know where to pivot or when to pivot. And I think that’s where most agents go sideways. And so

Dylan Silver (11:37)

Yeah.

Thanks.

You just don’t know.

Shadd Boucher (11:52)

You know, I would love to say this in this new realm of 100 % brokerages where the agent makes everything and the newer models, you know, we won’t name any of the three letter real estate agencies, but the problem is, is the agents want 100 % and they’re not willing to pay to have a mentor and they’re not willing to pay to have somebody there to help them with the tea leaves, you know, and if they’re not going to run their business like a business owner, then that’s hard and most producers are not leaders and most leaders are not producers. So it’s hard to be both.

100%.

Dylan Silver (12:22)

I want to ask you about newer agents getting that mentorship because you brought up really a phenomenal point. ⁓ I’m a newer agent. got licensed earlier this year. Prior to that, I networked a lot with investors as a wholesaler, but just loved real estate even from afar prior to getting in. The way that I got in was through a Google search. What’s the fastest way to generate wealth? Well, it’s not fast, but it is real estate in many cases.

As a new agent, what shocked me was how it felt like there was a lot of people who were vying for my attention, but that on all sides, both from brokers and from agents, that attention quickly dissipates. Like you really do have to seek out the knowledge yourself. Do you think that there is a strategy that newer agents can have as far as getting that mentorship, making sure that they’re with the right people who are…

and gonna be helping in them or is that really not even important is it more important to say hey I’m just gonna do whatever I have to do to get open houses and showings and work my network and I’ll let the mentorship come when I start getting properties under contract people will see and they’ll be more likely to help

Shadd Boucher (13:30)

No, that’s the last thing they should think about. To be honest with you, when I do a recruiting appointment with a brand new agent, because Remax, we are pivoting to start to hire brand new agents, but traditionally, we were the home of the experienced agent. We always have been as a brand. ⁓ But here’s the thing, the agent walks in, what’s my split? That is the wrong answer. That’s the wrong thing to even care about. It’s how are you going to make me a success?

How are you going to answer the questions for me that I don’t even know how to ask? How are you going to guide me? How are you going to mentor me? You know, can you show me people that have walked the path that I’m going to walk? Can you show me how they were successful? Do you have an office that’s built on a culture of collaboration where the older agents will sit down with me and speak and tell me what to do and you’re there for me? You know, I tell people all the time, I’m a resource. You know, I’m a salaried position in the company. I don’t list and sell. I’m allowed to.

I still have my license. still active. I still have an MLS, you know, but I don’t. My job is to be a visionary and to sit down with agents and consult and guide and strategize. And I think, unfortunately, too many agents have watched HDTV and a bunch of other garbage shows that make it look easy. And they sit down and think that it’s just going to show up. And it’s not. It’s this business will give an opportunity to anyone. The biggest problem is when it knocks on your door and you open it.

Dylan Silver (14:40)

Yeah.

Shadd Boucher (14:53)

It’s wearing overalls and looks like work because it 100 % is. Absolute.

Dylan Silver (14:57)

Absolutely.

You know, I couldn’t agree any more with that. Both from my perspective as having gotten deals across the line working with investors, but also as a new agent saying that, this is a totally different ballgame here. And then seeing where some of the obstacles and I would say pitfalls are in general. I do want to pivot a bit here, Shadd, and ask you about Tampa in general. I’m a big fan of Tampa. I’m a big fan of Florida, realistically, in general.

I’m Texas licensed realtor living outside of the country, but I think there’s something in the water in Florida. I don’t know what it is. It could be the weather. It could be a lot of things. So many people who are real estate operators, realtors, brokers, but also real estate tech, know, fix and flippers, even people doing modular. They seem so many people seem to be going to Florida to base their business out of. Is there this vibe in Florida that, you know, real estate is

very much the center of business in a lot of ways and I think a lot of business probably not just real estate.

Shadd Boucher (16:39)

Well, I would say that it’s not real estate necessarily. We’re a service economy. The whole state of Florida is a service economy, which is changing. That’s all starting to change very drastically now. But traditionally, we’ve always been a service economy. But it’s paradise. Let’s be honest. Everybody else likes to vacation here. We live here. ⁓ The problem is that before, when I first got in the business, everybody wants to have a million dollar producer on their card. I’m a million dollar producer. 25 years ago, that meant something. You were selling

$40,000 houses, $90,000 was a big sale. Now, the average is over 400. So a lot of people are starting to get priced out of the market, but we’ve had a lot of industry showing up here. mean, there’s, you know, we’re starting to hit a heavy dose of the medical field. We’re starting to get a heavy dose of Amazon dropping warehouses left, right and sideways. know, Target just built a massive warehouse near our one office. There’s lots of things that are happening to the Tampa economy and

Dylan Silver (17:21)

Yeah.

Shadd Boucher (17:34)

You know, there’s a lot of plans to make this almost the Silicon Valley of the East Coast. So the problem with that is, is our housing is going that direction very quickly. You know, we saw a massive boost during the COVID pop of 2020 to 2022, and houses skyrocketed. You know, my own home was two and a quarter when I purchased it in 2018. Now it’s praising for almost 450. And you know, and let’s be honest, I put a fence up.

Dylan Silver (17:38)

Yeah.

Shadd Boucher (18:01)

You know, yay, I put a fence up, but that’s about it. ⁓ But that’s where housing is showing up. So we’ve got an affordability problem in a lot of spots because again, with that service economy backbone still being there, there’s a lot of people that can’t afford those jumps. know, and homeowners insurance is our other big underpinning. It’s incredibly expensive here.

Dylan Silver (18:01)

you

you

Yeah.

Sure.

Are you seeing, and this is a question that I’ve asked a lot of people in Florida, I’ve gotten mixed responses. Are you seeing a trend towards disaster resilient homes to kind of combat that flood insurance issue and insurance in general? I don’t necessarily know that they’re gonna stop making homeless from wood. That seems to be a big uphill battle, but something that would make homeless more disaster resilient, wind resilient, ⁓ water resilient.

Shadd Boucher (18:38)

Mm-hmm.

There’s been a lot of changes. Believe it or not, majority of our homes here are actually concrete block. ⁓ All the builders that build here, Lenar, D.R. Horton, all that. D.R. Horton actually makes some concrete block, both stories. So if you have a two-story home, it’s concrete block, both stories. So a lot of people are doing concrete block. ⁓ We just had a lot of changes to our HOA rules here because HOAs ⁓ were a big impediment to people being able to harden their homes.

because, you can’t put those shutters on, it’s ugly and all these other things. So now if you want to harden your home and HOA can’t stop you, which is going to change a lot of the things, metal roofs, things of that nature. ⁓ But yeah, we’re seeing a lot of shift towards what to do because of the storms. know, we’re still dealing with Milton from last year. There’s still blue tarps on roofs. I mean, and you’re talking a year later. So, but when you look at Florida.

Dylan Silver (19:33)

Yeah. Rain.

Shadd Boucher (19:42)

I mean, there’s whole cities, Punta Gorda, you know, on our coast down to the south. It was flat. know, Charlie back in the early 2000s wiped it off the map. It was literally was flat. And now it’s a vibrant place again. you know, I think the state itself is resilient. I think, you know, let’s be honest. I’ll give you a funny one. Nature basically for three months out of the year attempts to murder every Floridian known to man. You know, you’ve got hurricanes.

Dylan Silver (19:53)

Yeah.

Amen.

Shadd Boucher (20:08)

You have

alligator mating season. You have the… We’re the lightning capital of the world. Okay? And that’s not even to have to do with the heat index. So the whole point of Florida is if you survive the summer, then you get nine months of the most beautiful weather you’ll ever have. But… Yeah. Yeah, in fact, we’re about to get a cold snap very soon.

Dylan Silver (20:14)

Yeah.

It’s so great. ⁓

I fell in love with the opposite side of Florida. I know that there’s maybe some friendly competition between South Florida and West Coast of Florida, but on my route to the Dominican Republic where I currently live, I had to stop or have a layover at Fort Lauderdale. And it didn’t matter what time of year it was, I was like, my goodness, this is so amazing. There’s people like on here relaxing. It’s a Tuesday. didn’t matter. was beautiful weather.

I would then go back to Dallas and it would be frigid at times of year. I lived about an hour north. We might get a tornado. So it was a big juxtaposition. And then I’ve had many guests on this show really put me on to St. Petersburg in particular, but Tampa as a whole. And it really made me think, I may actually like that better than even other parts of Florida. But I digress here, Shadd. We are coming up on time though. ⁓

Where can folks go if maybe they are in the Tampa area or they may be anywhere and they’d like to reach out to you, maybe get some feedback on their own real estate journey.

Shadd Boucher (21:33)

Honestly, my LinkedIn page is probably the best place to go. It’s been there for 25 years. That’s the easiest way to reach out to me, or they can give me a phone call or email me directly. That’d be great. But yeah, I’m always willing to help. In fact, ⁓ I’m a teacher at heart. So that’s what I like to do. I like to educate, because I think that’s what people need in this business, because there is a lot of people that just don’t understand what all of this does, what you and I do. The investing side of it, the renting side, the flipping side, all of that stuff is definitely different.

For sure.

Dylan Silver (22:03)

Shadd thank you so much for coming on the show here today.

Shadd Boucher (22:06)

Awesome, thank you.