The Hidden Dryer Vent Problem That Could Burn Down Your Rental Property

Doug Warren (00:00)
Really, it’s the dryer vent cleaning. You know what I mean? I know people get annoyed. People get annoyed by it because it’s just like you don’t know about these things until you own a house, right? You don’t even think about those types of those type of maintenance items. You because you should get done annually and it’s going to cost you depending on what market you’re in anywhere between probably 150 and $300. And it sounds expensive. The problem is if you’re not cleaning it.

Cody Crabb (00:04)
So simple, yeah.

Yeah.

Doug Warren (00:24)
your dryer is running so much more than it has to, you’re wearing out your dryer so much quicker,

Cody Crabb (02:02)
Hello and welcome to the Real Estate Pros Podcast.

I am Cody Crabb with Investor Fuel. Today I’m joined by Doug Warren out of Michigan. He’s the owner of a Ductz franchise focused on air duct cleaning and HVAC restoration. So we’re going to dig into a little bit into the do’s and don’ts and how he’s built his business, but also how to kind of not have to call him so much ⁓ if you can possibly avoid it. we’re going to hopefully we’ll put you out of business completely, right Doug? No, of course not. ⁓

Doug Warren (02:28)
⁓

Cody Crabb (02:32)
So thanks for joining us today. So tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you get involved in the industry?

Doug Warren (02:40)
Sure, thanks for having me on first and foremost. ⁓ You know, I kind of actually fell into this industry. You know, I went to college, secondary education degree, and I graduated ⁓ as a social studies teacher. I was gonna teach, you know, I had a certification to teach seventh grade through 12th grade, and I thought that’s what I was gonna do. ⁓ I didn’t even know what duct cleaning was when I graduated from college. And… ⁓

I was unsuccessful. It was 2008. It wasn’t really a great year to be looking for any type of jobs, little on education. And I was looking for a job. was substitute teaching. I was coaching locally in a couple of high schools. And I had a friend who actually worked for Belfort Franchise Group, which actually owns Ductz. And he was selling franchises at the time. And he’d reached out to me and said, have a franchise owner who is looking for help.

with this startup that he’s got. he, long story short, he ended up hiring me to do outside sales, promoted me to general manager several months later and then I ended up buying it. So I’ve been doing it since 2008.

Cody Crabb (03:49)
Gotcha, okay, so that’s great. mean, I feel like a lot of people end up in their industry on accident and they’re afraid to admit it. I love when people are just like, nope, don’t even know how I got here, but here I am. All right, so just for a newish investor, let’s say you’re kind of coming into this, you maybe don’t know a whole lot about real estate, but you kind of have a vague idea that HVAC and duck cleaning and all these things are, obviously they’re important. Give us a quick, you know, what?

Doug Warren (03:58)
Yeah. ⁓

Yeah.

Cody Crabb (04:18)
What should someone look for? Let’s say like we’re talking to some investors. Let’s say what someone should look for in terms of like red flags in an HVAC system right away.

Doug Warren (04:28)
Yeah, sure. So the first thing is checking the filter. And so we get a lot of calls out to homes for investors and for the general public of, know, what does the filter look like? If the filter is really dirty, and you know, we’ll ask them how often are you changing the filter? And so an investor might want to look at that. They might want to take the register covers off, look inside the duct work, because we all know that there are the clients out there who are going to look at those things. And when they

Cody Crabb (04:33)
Well, yeah.

Doug Warren (04:56)
when they hire somebody to come out and do the inspection, they’re gonna look at those things as well. And sometimes you can kind of head those off with the past before it becomes an issue and get the ducts cleaned. ⁓ The same thing. Yeah.

Cody Crabb (05:07)
I suppose that’s a good little shortcut. Like if you go into

a property to buy it and you check the ducts or like the filter, even just the basic filter, and it’s like completely, barely ever been changed, that’s probably a red flag that your system is maybe not gonna be in the best shape.

Doug Warren (06:09)
you might end up with weird smells in the house that you need to remedy and it might be coming from the HVAC system. And the other thing that’s secondary that a lot of people don’t think about is the dryer vents, you know, because dryer vents is a leading cause of fires in the country. And so, you know, what an investor can look at is they can look at, you know, locate where the dryer vent exhaust outside and is it full of lint. And if it’s full of lint, they know that it’s probably not going to pass inspection.

Cody Crabb (06:12)
Hmm. Hmm.

Doug Warren (06:38)
And so that’s one of the things that they can maybe have the seller remedy before they buy it. Hey, make sure that the dryer vent’s cleaned out so I don’t have to worry about doing this once I purchase it.

Cody Crabb (06:47)
Yeah, I used to think that that couldn’t possibly be a problem. And then I saw like social media videos of people like, I didn’t know you were supposed to clean your dryer filter, or I didn’t know that you were supposed to have your ducts cleaned. And I’m just like, how does someone get, like, they’re just lucky that something bad hasn’t happened, I suppose. ⁓ So ⁓ I find that really interesting. Like, it’s such a simple fix. ⁓ I’ve been told, and correct me if I’m wrong, ⁓ that…

Doug Warren (06:58)
Yeah.

Cody Crabb (07:15)
⁓ not maintaining your ducts can really put a strain on your HVAC system, on your air conditioner and your furnace and stuff. Can you kind of tell us a little more about that?

Doug Warren (07:24)
Yeah, sure. mean, when a new system is installed, it’s balanced to work optimally with a clean system, right? And so over time, the analogy I kind of like to use is we all have desktop computers, right? No matter how clean you keep your house, you look at that fan on the back of your desktop computer, it just gets dirty over time. And so you just don’t think about it. Every time you open your door, you open up windows, it’s pulling air in from outside, right? And that’s getting pulled into your system.

And so it’s just going to get contaminated over time and when it does, the furnace has to work harder to push air throughout the system. And once the system gets dirty, the EPA says that it’s circulating that same dirty air up to seven times an hour, so you’re breathing that in, but it’s also, as it’s building up in the blower compartment, it’s building up inside the furnace, inside the ducts, the system is working that much harder. actually when we clean commercial systems that haven’t been cleaned in a long time,

they end up having to get it balanced afterwards because the system is actually working so much more efficiently than it has in years.

Cody Crabb (08:28)
Hmm. That’s also a good call out. Maybe if you feel like you’re frustrated about the HVAC system maybe not pulling its weight in a property, that might be a really easy fix. So one of my favorite things to ask about in episodes like this is, so what is something you see that’s kind of an annoyingly expensive fix now, but it is way, way worse down the line? Do this now or else there’s a massive problem.

Doug Warren (08:38)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Really, it’s the dryer vent cleaning. You know what I mean? I know people get annoyed. People get annoyed by it because it’s just like you don’t know about these things until you own a house, right? You don’t even think about those types of those type of maintenance items. You because you should get done annually and it’s going to cost you depending on what market you’re in anywhere between probably 150 and $300. And it sounds expensive. The problem is if you’re not cleaning it.

Cody Crabb (09:02)
So simple, yeah.

Yeah.

Doug Warren (09:22)
your dryer is running so much more than it has to, you’re wearing out your dryer so much quicker,

and then if you end up having a fire, I mean, just think about the nuisance of having to jump through all the hoops with your insurance company to get this taken care of, to get it remedied, and if you lose personal items in the fire, when you think about it in those terms, you’re like, you know, two, $300 a year really isn’t a lot of money in the grand scheme of things when you think about what the totality of a house fire would

Cody Crabb (09:29)
Hmm.

Yeah, seriously. Well, and not to mention, mean, what else could happen? mean, who knows what could happen if someone is in a property of yours and something happens. So yeah, think ⁓ HVAC is one of those things where it’s kind of behind the scenes and it kind of doesn’t really, you don’t think about it until it doesn’t work type thing. ⁓ And so in some ways it’s kind of frustrating because something like plumbing and electricity, you use it every day and you’re in contact with it most days. But…

Doug Warren (10:00)
Yeah, yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cody Crabb (10:53)
If HVAC is working well, you just never think about it. So it’s not a nuisance until it’s a nuisance, and then it’s bad.

Doug Warren (10:59)
Yeah, and it always

seems to go out at the worst times, right? So you ignore having it maintenance and then it’s 105 degrees out and you want the AC or it’s below zero and you need the heat and it’s not working because well, you haven’t had a maintenance in 10

Cody Crabb (11:02)
Yeah

Well, not to mention you’re probably cranking it extra hard because of the extreme temperatures. So ⁓ yeah, I can attest to that. I actually a couple of years ago had a birthday party for my son in July, by the way. I’m in the middle of Utah, like full on desert, hottest summer I can remember,

Doug Warren (11:19)
Absolutely.

Cody Crabb (11:30)
and air conditioner went out during the birthday party.

Doug Warren (11:30)
Yeah.

Cody Crabb (11:34)
it’s, seriously, yeah, yeah.

Doug Warren (11:34)
The worst time, it’s funny,

I just had a friend who vacationed just for a short while down in Palm Beach and they’ve got a big group together.

There’s 13 of them there. They’re all, they all come together. They have a great time. Air conditioner goes out and they’re at an Airbnb. And so now you’re calling them, you know, the homeowner and everybody’s unhappy and it just creates this issue.

Cody Crabb (11:53)
Yeah.

Yeah, it’s kind of like when you’re in college trying to print an assignment at midnight, like something bad is going to happen. Yeah. Well, I mean, this has been really helpful so far, I think. Just a few more things here. So what are some things that people don’t know that maybe they really need to know about an HVAC system or about kind of air quality and things?

Doug Warren (12:02)
Absolutely, yes.

Yeah, you know

the biggest thing about air quality that nobody really thinks about is the EPA has found that indoor air quality is oftentimes two to five times more polluted than outdoor air quality. know, and so

Cody Crabb (12:33)
How?

Doug Warren (12:35)
especially if you’re never opening the windows or opening the doors, I mean I know that we have filtration and you need to replace that filter as often as it’s recommended,

but once you get something inside

the house it’s kind of stuck there. You know what I mean?

And

so a lot of times that indoor air quality becomes a problem and then not getting the ducts cleaned in a timely manner means you’re just breathing this contamination in over and over and over.

Cody Crabb (13:02)
Yeah, you said up to seven times an hour, is that right? Yeah, wow. And especially, I’ve heard also, and again, correct me if I’m wrong here, that kind of during flu season and cold season, you can be really circulating a lot of stuff as well. So like, you can get yourself sick again because it’s in the system and it kind of damp, damp, warm environments and it’s just.

Doug Warren (13:05)
Yeah.

Cody Crabb (13:27)
it can just keep circulating. yeah, millions of reasons to think about this. okay, so one more framing this kind of for investors. What is something that investors maybe would have to deal with in an HVAC? Let me put it this way. What problem can an investor avoid? Can you think of some problems that an investor might run into with tenants or with clients or someone in their property?

Doug Warren (13:28)
Yep, absolutely.

Cody Crabb (13:56)
that you can kind of avoid with a good HVAC maintenance schedule and stuff.

Doug Warren (14:00)
Yeah, I mean, we

get calls from tenants all the time talking about smells. Smells like, you know, I just moved in this apartment, I’m getting these weird smells because what happens is a lot of times, you know, ⁓ an investor will come in and they’ll do a remodel, right? It’s one of the first things that everybody thinks about doing and I understand it, is you want to make this place turnkey. And so what they’ll do is they’ll go through, they’ll clean everything.

They might do drywall, they might rip out the flooring and redo all those cosmetic things so the house looks very inviting. Well then if you get someone who moves in, especially someone who moves in that has asthma or has respiratory issues, all of a sudden they’re calling you the homeowner and they’re complaining that like I’m just getting sick all the time, I’m coughing nonstop or I’m getting these weird smells, especially if you’ve had previous smokers in the home.

or if they’ve had pets and some people are very allergic to those types of items. We get those phone calls from the tenants and it putting the pressure, you know, wanting us to prepare reports or coming out and doing inspections for them so that they can pass it off to the homeowner about, the system’s contaminated. And sometimes it’s easier just to get out in front of it. So I have several builders that they just package. They know, hey, we’re doing all this drywall, we’re ripping out all this flooring or this carpeting. We’re just going to have the duct work.

leaned when we wrap this project up before this new tenant moves in. And it just kind of heads that stuff off to pass and they don’t have to worry about receiving that phone call.

Cody Crabb (16:11)
You know, I didn’t even think about the fact that if you’re kind of flipping a house or something, people that are working on it may not smell it because there’s all kinds of smells that go with that. And then someone moves in and you see it and you’re like, you know, and you might attribute some weird smell to something that happened in there when they were working on it. And then there you go. have no clue that there’s this horrible smell because you just kind of, you didn’t even clock it while that was going on. So yeah, see lots of little things like that I think are important to think about. So.

Doug Warren (16:19)
Right. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Cody Crabb (16:37)
⁓ Doug, thanks so much for these tips. I think that our audience is really going to like these. ⁓ If somebody is in your area, let us know kind what your service area is, kind of, and if

Doug Warren (16:46)
Sure.

Cody Crabb (16:48)
they want to work with you, how can they get in touch?

Doug Warren (16:50)
Yeah, they could just call the office. Our main office number is 517-499-6692. And we actually operate all over southern Michigan. So we call it Lake to Lake. So for those of you that aren’t from the Michigan area, that’s Lake area all the way to Lake Michigan. And so we have a very, very large

service area, but we have a few different offices that we service people out of.

And so just call us at that main number. We’d be happy to provide

you with a free estimate.

even take some before and after. We also take before and after photos on every project we complete so we show you what was inside the system before we start and how it looks when we’re done. And you know a little known fact it’s not like this in every state but in Michigan you actually have to possess a mechanical contractor’s license to provide this work and of course I possess that.

Cody Crabb (17:32)
Hmm.

Gotcha, yeah, and I think as an investor, before and after anything is a great way to kind of position yourself. So I think that’s a great value there. So ⁓ Doug, once again, thanks so much for joining us today. If you got something out of this audience, please go ahead and give us a like, subscribe, comment, do all the things. Call Doug in your area, if you’re in his area, and we’ll see you next time on Real Estate Pros. ⁓ Thanks so much for your time today, Doug.

Doug Warren (18:01)
Thanks Cody, appreciate your time.