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Show Summary
In this conversation, Carrie discusses the challenges faced by short-term rental hosts, particularly with rising commission fees from platforms like Airbnb. She introduces her platform, Indirectly, which aims to simplify the booking process for both hosts and guests by providing features like notifications for available properties. The discussion also covers the ease of integrating properties into the platform and the benefits of a referral program that incentivizes users to share the platform with others.
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Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
Carrie With Inndirectly (00:00)
Yes, so Airbnb has changed over time and unfortunately the hosts and who have signed on, know, have aren’t grandfathered in to whatever structure they signed on in. And so things just change over time and you have no control over that. So yes, the commission, the commission that Airbnb takes from hosts went from 3 % to 15 and a half percent. There was a few months. ⁓kind of forewarning on that, but that just happened in October and that’s pretty huge. mean, if you imagine as a host, a lot of hosts will have a property management software which costs something, a lot of them will have a property manager or a co-host which can cost upwards of 20%. ⁓
And then now the Airbnb is taking 15 and a half percent pretty soon. That’s 50 % of any income that you make is put back out towards your just managing and listing. And that’s huge.
Kristen (02:31)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros podcast. I’m Kristen and I’m here with Carrie Nilsen, a host, entrepreneur, and the creator of Inndirectly, which is a platform reshaping how guests and hosts connect. And we’re gonna talk about a lot of short-term rentals today and kind of the challenges there are with the existing system. So I’m excited to get into it, Carrie.Carrie With Inndirectly (02:51)
Thank you.Kristen (02:53)
So tell us, you’ve built this great platform. ⁓ Before we go into your history, give us just a little brief overview of what Inndirectly does and what it’s solving.Carrie With Inndirectly (03:06)
Inndirectly is a short-term rental marketplace for hosts and guests to connect. The idea is that you as a host would list your property on our site and link all your booking options, whether that’s Verbo, Airbnb, Direct Booking, or any other sites, your social media links, YouTube videos, however you’d like. You list your property and… ⁓Then when guests come and search for your area and they find your property, they can contact you directly or they can book any of the different options that you have. And that way, the focus is back on the property and not a certain platform.
Kristen (03:49)
Yeah, I mean, you shared a really interesting stat with me how Airbnb overnight just changed their commission. So it is interesting how people are really chained to these big platforms.Carrie With Inndirectly (04:06)
Yes, so Airbnb has changed over time and unfortunately the hosts and who have signed on, know, have aren’t grandfathered in to whatever structure they signed on in. And so things just change over time and you have no control over that. So yes, the commission, the commission that Airbnb takes from hosts went from 3 % to 15 and a half percent. There was a few months. ⁓kind of forewarning on that, but that just happened in October and that’s pretty huge. mean, if you imagine as a host, a lot of hosts will have a property management software which costs something, a lot of them will have a property manager or a co-host which can cost upwards of 20%. ⁓
And then now the Airbnb is taking 15 and a half percent pretty soon. That’s 50 % of any income that you make is put back out towards your just managing and listing. And that’s huge.
people, hosts who are already in, yeah, the idea is that hosts can raise their price to, you know, offset that 15 and a half percent increase. But unfortunately, what that
does is Airbnb is able to tell their guests that they don’t charge a commission anymore, which is now true, but those guests will see the price and think, why on earth does a host charge that much? And it kind of throws the host under the bus. But anyway, there’s nothing that we can do as a host, as hosts, ⁓ because our, our original policy is not grandfathered in.
Kristen (06:35)
Yeah, I mean, that’s a huge problem with people who are really invested in short-term rentals is they’re at the whim of whatever these large companies want to do. Also a lot of regulations. So before you started Inndirectly, how did you get into real estate and kind of what were you doing in the space?Carrie With Inndirectly (06:53)
Yeah, sooriginally we had some equity in our home and wanted to just invest and felt like real estate was a really good way to invest. ⁓ In the process, short-term rentals, of somebody suggested instead of investing in a long-term rental to try short-term. And actually we really have enjoyed that because it’s a place that our first place that we invested in, we thought of it as a vacation home for ourselves. We could go visit it. ⁓
And it was actually a joy. was very fun to design our kind of our theme for the house and to make it a place that we want to vacation ourselves. And it went really great that first year and it was very fun. So we ended up now we have three short term rentals and ⁓
That’s how we got involved and the first couple of years were pretty good. And then things just started to change a little bit in the industry and just being, ⁓ realizing how reliant I became or on the big platforms, which, you know, as a host, you’re signing up on these big platforms and using them to get your property out there for people to book and in doing that, you’re paying a commission and that makes sense. But pretty soon I realized that felt like they were using.
me and instead of caring about the host
⁓ They kind of use hosts, I guess. I mean, it makes sense in some way, but it became where it just really took the heart out of hosting, I guess. So I realized pretty soon that you’re having to walk on eggshells with what you say, how you respond. I could go on and on. The review system is…
You’ve got hosts leaving perfect reviews where they shouldn’t just for fear of receiving, you know, ⁓ poor reviews if they are honest. ⁓
It just has changed. But anyway, that’s how we originally got into it. So as I noticed these changes occurring ⁓ and how reliant I was, 60 to 70 % of all bookings for me in my area come from Airbnb and about 20 % from BRBO. And I appreciate those companies for sure, but it’s scary to be reliant on them. So I started thinking about what…
What do you do to break free from that reliance? And just general consensus is have your direct booking site. So a few years ago, I’m like, all right, I’ve got my direct booking site. Here it is. And I quickly realized, wait a minute, how are people going to find it? And I don’t know how they’re going to find it, right? People who come to visit my vacation homes tend to not come back time and time again. It’s a one-time vacation. Maybe I have a couple return people. But for the most part, advertising in my home is not effective. ⁓
That’s part of what inspired me to build Inndirectly. Also, as a guest myself, when I go to vacation somewhere, I really love looking for a place to stay. It’s so fun. I love staying in different homes.
And I spent a few hours on one big platform trying to find just the right place and then checked out another big platform and spent an hour or two. And pretty soon I’m just annoyed. I’m like, I just got to book a place. But… ⁓
And I thought, you know what, maybe I’ll look for direct bookings in this. I was going to Phoenix and I’m like, maybe I’ll look for direct booking. But then I was like, wait a minute, how on earth do I find a direct booking, a list of direct booking places in Phoenix? And I Google it, maybe two places pop up. But I wanted to search by like three bedroom, you know, with the pool, whatever. I wanted to be able to search and you can’t do anyway. I couldn’t find a place to go and do that. And so I thought, well, what on earth? That should definitely be.
out there. And so the combination of those things is why I began to build Inndirectly. So now you have a place to go to search.
⁓ All platforms in one place, but it’s also this direct connection with host and guest That’s available. So for example on some of the big platforms like ⁓ you cannot share your phone number before booking, right? So if a guest says hey, can you call me have a question say no, can’t we have to go through the platform. I mean there’s ⁓ Which is fine to some degree, but it’s really nice to be able to have that connection. I mean
It’s my property, right? And if I want to talk to this person, but you know, if they’re found through the big platform, okay. But then their phone number is available only for the duration of the stay and then it’s gone. So something happens a few weeks later, I find an item of theirs. I have to go through the platform. ⁓
There’s pros and cons to that but sometimes people don’t look at their they don’t have the app on their phone They just go to their computer to book, you know ⁓ and so It’s kind of a challenge Sometimes people never respond again to the platform after their stay and maybe you have something you need to follow up on So with Inndirectly you can contact the host before during or after a booking outside of the platform Before they ever choose a platform to book on if they’re going to book on a platform. So
Kristen (12:46)
That’s amazing. I feel like you’re solving a lot of different problems that ⁓ short-term investors really run into ⁓ Yeah, it is just it’s really hard when your equity is on the line with these big companies ⁓ You know just generally speaking I would love for you to talk about the short-term rental market in general and kind of the opportunity there that you see and Yeah, I’m sure it varies from city to citybut yeah.
Carrie With Inndirectly (13:19)
The short term rental market seems to, you know, like anything ebb and flow and there seems like the general consensus right now is that there’s a little bit of an oversaturation in certain ⁓and so hosts are struggling to stand out and get bookings amongst the competition. So that’s a challenge right now. Also there’s a lot of cities that are highly regulating the short-term rentals or disallowing them and so that’s also a challenge. Some places have a 30-day minimum where typically short-term rentals are for the weekend or four days or whatever it is. So… ⁓
I would say that right now the market’s a little challenging, ⁓ but getting a unique place in just the right location is still very lucrative.
Kristen (14:10)
Absolutely, and I feel like your platform, mean the rental short-term rental market is threatened right now because there’s so many regulations being put in place and I feel like your platform really does solve a lot of that as well. ⁓Carrie With Inndirectly (14:25)
Yeah, there’s a feature about my platform I’m so excited about. ⁓And that is notifications. It’s similar to Redfin or OfferUp when a guest goes to search for a property and maybe there’s a few things available. Maybe there isn’t anything available. Maybe there’s a lot, but they can’t find what they want and you can save your search. so I’m super excited about that because as a guest myself, when I’ve gone to look for a place, maybe several months in advance, I find a couple options, but I’m thinking, do I choose one of those or do I wait a little bit and see what else becomes available?
But there’s that risk.
there do I or maybe it’s in two weeks I’m going somewhere and I’m trying to decide and I’m so worried that I’m gonna miss something what if something new comes on the market what if somebody cancelled and now it’s available do I have to check back every day do I have check back every week how does this work but now within directly a guest will simply be notified when something becomes available that meets their criteria
leading up to their vacation date, which I’m so excited about because I feel like that just takes a lot of the stress out of searching for a place to stay and it allows you to just kind of…
Kristen (16:04)
Amazing.Carrie With Inndirectly (16:17)
Be assured that if something becomes available you will know and also as a guest I’ve had a lot of hosts reach out Sorry a lot of as a host I’ve had a lot of guests reach out and say hey I was going to book your property But now I see somebody else snagged it for the weekend. I wanted and I’m disappointed Can you let me know if they cancel and I’ll say yes, I’d love to let you know if they cancel I’ll pencil it in somewhere I’ll try to remember but I’ve got a lot going on with my three properties and You know a few months down the road I get some cancellation and I’m thinking okaySomebody cancelled. Was there somebody who wanted that place on these dates? I’m trying to remember, see where I wrote that down, trying to keep track of it all. And if they had, you can not only save your search, but you can save a property for certain dates. So if that property becomes available, you’ll know. Now that’s less likely to happen.
But you can rest assured that you’ll know if it does. And so there’s just that assurance there, which is really nice. Also, two of my properties are in a college town. the ⁓ most sought after weekend of the year is college graduation in May. last year I had a cancel. And those are booked a year prior, you know, sometimes. And last year I had a cancellation about six weeks prior to graduation. was.
so disappointed and I thought, no, how are people going to know that it’s available now if there’s no system that puts it back out there in front of the guests. So that’s why we built that. I’m super excited about that feature because I feel like that’s just not been out there in the short-term rental world.
Kristen (17:49)
Yeah, you’re really, you’re helping both sides of it. You’re helping the host, but then you’re also helping the customers. And I’m sure, you know, generally speaking, I’m sure the rates are much lower booking direct. So I’m sure that that’s incentive enough for someone to book direct.Carrie With Inndirectly (18:05)
Absolutely, I would have to do the math exactly, but it’s 15.5 % that Airbnb takes. But that’s pretty standard for some of the big platforms. believe booking may be 18 % actually, booking.com. But that makes a big difference. If there’s a booking that’s however long it is, and say it’s a $3,000 booking, like I said, I’d have to do the math again, but I did see something come through, and it was $500 to $700 in platform fees.for that booking and the guest doesn’t really realize maybe especially if it’s all mixed in that they’re paying that much extra to cover the platform fees, especially now that it’s all mixed in or some of the platforms can say we don’t charge the guest. So they don’t realize it. If they book direct, they save a lot of money that way. So yeah, it can make a really big difference for the guest price-wise.
Kristen (19:05)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think this is such a cool platform and very exciting. So how are you working with investors or hosts to integrate into the platform?Carrie With Inndirectly (19:16)
Yeah, well, integration into the platform is actually super easy. It can take as little as five to 10 minutes. But I’m working right now just trying to market and ⁓ share. Today’s our one month anniversary of launching. So we launched on 10-10, which is kind of a fun date.because 10 out of 10. But anyway, so we’re fairly new, but we’ve gotten several properties already listed and several hosts because this is such a desire for hosts right now that when it’s mentioned, everybody’s like, well, yeah, absolutely. I totally see the need. want that. So right now the integration itself is going onto our site for a guest or a host. You just have to make a user login
takes maybe 15 seconds. And then to list a property that can take as little as five minutes. So if that’s what you mean, but you just put your property, ⁓ you know, title, location, your contact information and one picture is all it takes to get it listed. Obviously, most people want to add more details, but you just copy your links to all your platforms and your direct booking link. And it’s really simple to get it listed. So I had somebody
like in real time on the phone, other day list in about five minutes. Anyway, without any issues, so.
Kristen (20:44)
Amazing. Well, that’s very easy. So tell people. Yeah.Carrie With Inndirectly (20:45)
Yeah, also.sorry, also.
the calendar link. on our site, the calendar is for ⁓ availability viewing purposes only because the bookings aren’t coming through our site, right? So on the calendar associated with your listing, we’ll have the dates that are already booked blocked out. And the way that that works as far as integrating is your iCal link. So whether that’s through your property management software or through one of the big platforms that’s linked to the other big platforms, you just copy that iCal link. So any bookings that occur will block out on the calendar and people can see that. So that is one
integration aspect as well.
Kristen (21:24)
Amazing. So tell people where to find you, to find Inndirectly, and how to work with you.Carrie With Inndirectly (21:30)
Yeah, Inndirectly, also the name is kind of a play on words. Inndirectly has two Ns, I-N-N, and our website is inndirectly.com. And you can reach out to us at [email protected]. there’s, we have on our website an explainer video. You can watch this two minutes, 45 seconds to kind of.give the whole story of who we are and what we have to offer. And there’s various ways to find out, know, press here to contact us or you can email us. ⁓ I do respond personally to everybody right now as we’re small and growing. So I will give you a phone call if you want. ⁓ We’ll definitely email if needed, but really it’s not even necessary unless you’d like because it’s such a simple process to get on board.
Kristen (22:22)
Awesome, well thank you so much for being here, Carrie.Carrie With Inndirectly (22:25)
Thank you. ⁓Kristen (22:28)
I think that people learned a lot about how maybe they can optimize their short-term rental business. And I think Inndirectly is a great ⁓ way to kind of tackle that white space or those issues within the industry. So thank you everybody for listening. Hope you learned a lot. I mean, definitely reach out to Carrie, work with Inndirectly. There’s no downside, right?Carrie With Inndirectly (22:49)
Right, I also have one more feature I wanted to mention. ⁓We have a referral program built in. So when you have a user account, which just takes a few seconds to make, there’s a little referral box at the top and you’ll have a unique referral code associated with your name. So every time, if you share that with another host who then lists the property, they’ll get a discount off their listing fee, which by the way, the listing fee is $50 per year and we don’t take any commissions of any kind. And that’s guaranteed to be grandfathered in.
For the life that you can have your listing that you keep subscribed So even if our price is raised in the future yours will not if you say subscribed so but anyways $50 a year per listing But if you share that referral code that’ll take $10 off for whoever signed up their property using your referral code And you’ll get a $5 credit so your little wallet referral wallet on Inndirectly will build credit over time and if you
if you wanted or you could build up however much credit and completely cover your next year’s renewal fee. So that was just a fun feature we built in. Thought it was a fun incentive and motivation because we just want to be fair and feasible and you know not make it cost an arm and a leg ⁓ and theoretically you can have it for free if you’re referring to other people.
Kristen (23:59)
Wow.That’s amazing and I’m sure I think a lot of people who are in short-term rentals know a lot of people in short-term rentals so I think that’s a great feature. So everyone definitely take advantage of that. Free money back for sure. And we will see you back next time. So thank you so much. Bye.
Carrie With Inndirectly (24:32)
Thank you.
