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Show Summary
In this conversation, Marios Kirios shares his journey in real estate investing, discussing his strategies, experiences, and insights into the market. He emphasizes the importance of learning from each property transaction, adapting to market changes, and the significance of building relationships in the industry. Marios also provides valuable advice for new investors and explains his approach to creative financing, particularly in the context of working with flippers.
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Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
Marios Kirios (00:00)
That’s a tough one, I would say. Definitely just do it, for sure. You know, I have some friends that are wanting to get into it, that they’ve wanted to get into it, but they’re a little scared or they’re waiting for the sidelines and ⁓ I think you just have to do it. You know, it’s one of those things that if you wait and wait, you’re not gonna do it. ⁓Real estate is like, almost like the stock market, you know? A lot of people say they want to wait until, I’m gonna wait till the market drops or they want to wait till a crash happens. There’s two things people don’t want to buy when they’re cheap. That’s stocks and real estate.
Michelle Kesil (02:20)
Hey everybody, welcome to the Real Estate Pros podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Kesil. Today I’m joined by someone I’m looking forward to chatting with, Marios Kirios, who’s been making serious moves in creative financing and seller financing to flippers. So, excited to have you on the show today, Marios.Marios Kirios (02:42)
So good to be here.Michelle Kesil (02:45)
Awesome. I think our listeners are going to take something away from how you’re approaching investing and breaking down deals. So let’s dive in. First off, those not yet familiar with you and your world, can you share what your main focus is?Marios Kirios (02:57)
That’sMostly do seller financing to flippers
Michelle Kesil (03:12)
Awesome. Is this in any specific market?Marios Kirios (03:17)
The Rhode Island I live in Rhode Island so we do Mostly Rhode Island a little bit of Mass a little bit of Connecticut here and there but mostly Rhode IslandMichelle Kesil (03:27)
Cool, how did you get started as an investor?Marios Kirios (03:32)
Basically, my father had been doing it for many years before me. And I started when I was about 10 or 11 years old, going with him to look at properties and all that kind of stuff. then around the, I would say 2006, 2007, I started getting more involved. 2009, I bought my first property.And then 2011, me and my father partnered up together and we bought and sold properties and we would buy, fix and sell. But we came up to the conclusion that a lot of houses weren’t selling at the time and the only way we could sell them was to sell or finance them. So we started selling financing properties to people that were actually going to live there long term, 15, 20 year loans.
And then we just converted from that to just seller financing flippers in 2019. So we pretty much go buy the property. Let’s just say for $250,000, I need some work. And we’ll sell it to a flipper for a little bit more, maybe 270, 280. And instead of doing how hard money is, 12 % plus three or four points.
We do flat 10 % interest only.
that’s it. Usually flippers are in and out of there in between four and seven months. Get our money back, we just go back into another property. And we have about seven or eight flippers that we deal with, you know, now, but always open to more people. We give them the deal.
first dibs on every deal we have until, if they don’t want to take it, then we put it out there.
Michelle Kesil (06:24)
Awesome! That’s really cool that you were able to pivot and support people in this way.Marios Kirios (06:32)
Yeah.Michelle Kesil (06:35)
What have been some of the main keys that have allowed your business to be able to grow and to run smoothly?Marios Kirios (06:44)
I would say, you know, at first we did use leverage like when we first started, but then we pivoted, we turned all to just using cash only, especially in the area of like, you know, 2017, 2018 when, you know, loans were kind of high at that time, it was still in the…like 8 % didn’t drop to 2 or 3 % until like 2019. And so we took it, not advantage, but we took advantage of the, at the time it was a peak. So we sold off a lot of property. We used that cash to buy properties that we still have financed. And just moving with the power of cash and not borrowing any money.
Michelle Kesil (07:40)
Yeah, why do you move with cash instead of borrowing money?Marios Kirios (07:47)
⁓ just, help this, ⁓ you know, not help this, but, you get a better deal, a little bit better deal because hard money still takes, you know, sometimes two or three weeks to close. We can close in like two or three days, depending on a title. Basically if title is ready same day, we can close same day. ⁓ get a little better, better of a deal and you don’t have.anybody to approve of anything other than yourself. ⁓ you know, ⁓ just, you you feel better sleeping at night knowing you don’t owe anybody money, you know? You can go through downturns better. ⁓ You don’t have, you know, when COVID hit, we didn’t have any outstanding loans.
and a few people that we did know that had outstanding loans, they were either losing property or selling properties at a discount to not lose them and lose whatever equity they had.
Michelle Kesil (08:58)
Yeah, absolutely. That makes sense. Everyone has their own way of doing things and you have to find the way that works for you.Marios Kirios (09:07)
Yeah, yeah. And it might not be the best way, you know, still every day we’re learning new things, every day we’re adjusting things. We just bought a property that… So when we buy properties, we usually are able to sell them in between one week and three or four weeks. Because like I said, we’re just selling to flippers. We’re not selling to the regular market. And I have this property right now that…It needed more work than I usually buy, but it was a really good price. And right now I’ve had it for sale for almost seven weeks. So it’s kind of at the longest that I’ve had a property for sale for a flipper because it needs extensive work. And that’s another learning curve, know, like, okay, I’m not going to buy a property that needs too much work because
a flipper is also not going to want to buy that either, you know.
So every day you learn.
Michelle Kesil (10:44)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I know every investor has those moments where they’re learning and pivoting and trying new things. Would you mind sharing? Yeah, would you mind sharing some of those experiences for you?Marios Kirios (10:53)
I’m sorry.Um, yeah, other than that property, there’s properties that I’ve seen that actually just went to look at one today. Uh, it’s four houses, four single family houses on one lot. Um, they’re not split-able. The, the, uh, town wants to keep them all together. And, uh, each one, every, every, of them have been empty and vacant for about seven to 10 years.
So they all need pretty much everything. ⁓ Vinyl siding, bathroom, kitchen, everything that works.
After the experience I just went through, was originally going to make them a pretty decent offer. They were looking for $500,000. I think ARV, after repair value and all that, is around $850,000 or $900,000. And I was going to come in around $300,000 or $350,000. And they probably need about $300,000 worth of work.
And after thinking about the experience I just went through with this property that I have now, I’m still considering buying it just at a lower price, maybe around $250 because of I’m going to take into account I’m going to probably hold it for a lot longer to sell it than a normal property.
Michelle Kesil (12:35)
Yeah, absolutely that makes sense that you’re working on these new strategiesMarios Kirios (12:41)
Yeah, yeah.Michelle Kesil (12:45)
So, what are you most focused on solving or scaling to next in your business?Marios Kirios (12:52)
We’re thinking about taking in money right now. There is ⁓ a good market to buy right now, I think. the next 12 months, we’re going to probably take a 10 % dip in our market anyway. But I think ⁓ we’re still super short in housing over here in Rhode Island. ⁓And springtime is just going to be, I think is going to be a crazy busy market. And especially if they roll out with that 50 year loan.
And I just want to have, you know, money waiting to be able to buy a bunch of properties ready to sell around springtime, you know? And not for me, obviously for the flippers, I’m just going to finance them to the flippers. But if they buy something around now and ready to sell it around springtime, you know, everybody makes money, you know?
Michelle Kesil (14:08)
Absolutely. And what does your business growth strategy look like in connecting with these flippers or the right people to work with?Marios Kirios (14:20)
⁓ I usually just meet them, ⁓ you know, like I have a, I have a restaurant, so I have a diner and I get to meet a lot of people. I’ve gotten a lot of deals from, but old folks that come in and, they’ve, you know, we’ve built trust with them over the last 30 years as, you know, daily customers and stuff. And I’ve gotten a lot of deals from them, like buying their grandparents homes or their homes or whatever. And I also get to meet a lot of contractors.and people that come in like that.
So that’s one way I’ve met a lot of people, obviously being in the field, you meet a lot of people.
I don’t really go to too many meetups. I have gone to a few here and there. I’m gonna start probably going to more in the future. I know that’s something I have to do. And hopefully I can meet some people that are looking to put some money to work, you know?
Michelle Kesil (16:06)
Absolutely. Relationship building is important in this industry.Marios Kirios (16:12)
Absolutely.Michelle Kesil (16:15)
So what would you say to someone that’s newer in their investing journey? Maybe they’re just starting or they’re looking to scale. Do you have any advice for people that are getting started?Marios Kirios (16:30)
That’s a tough one, I would say. Definitely just do it, for sure. You know, I have some friends that are wanting to get into it, that they’ve wanted to get into it, but they’re a little scared or they’re waiting for the sidelines and ⁓ I think you just have to do it. You know, it’s one of those things that if you wait and wait, you’re not gonna do it. ⁓Real estate is like, almost like the stock market, you know? A lot of people say they want to wait until, I’m gonna wait till the market drops or they want to wait till a crash happens. There’s two things people don’t want to buy when they’re cheap. That’s stocks and real estate.
You know what mean? And when the market’s down, most people are not even gonna be able to get a loan. See, we do get a market crash.
the banks aren’t going loan out money. you know. And then another thing my father’s always told me is ⁓ he doesn’t care what the market is. buy when it’s flat, you buy when it’s high, you buy when it’s low. As long as you keep buying, you get a good deal at today’s market, you know.
Michelle Kesil (17:56)
Yeah, I think that’s important to note because you never know the economy is not so predictable and it’s better to just get in the game and Yeah, there are so many opportunities to make profit once you’re in itMarios Kirios (18:13)
Absolutely.Michelle Kesil (18:15)
Awesome. So what are some of your goals that you have for where you want your business to head to?Marios Kirios (18:25)
Honestly, I don’t really have like, I don’t keep a goal. I just keep going, you know, and the way our thing works is you don’t know if, cause it’s all like us, I mean, they’re still a finance business. So,Let’s just say right now we have 10 seller finance deals out right now. You don’t know when they’re going to pay you off. Let’s say they’re done with the house, so it takes them maybe a month or two to close. So you don’t know when you’re going to get return of capital. So until you get the return of capital, you can’t really look at other deals unless you have enough built up. And then sometimes you don’t have anything coming in.
let’s just say three of them pay off at once. And now you’re out looking for two or three or four deals. You know, so it’s an ever going up and down situation. And you just work with, like I said, we’re just doing it with our own cash. We don’t have any investors or any partners or anything like that. So that’s, like I said, that’s one of the things that we’re looking into. But
You know, I’ll from there.
Michelle Kesil (19:46)
Yeah, absolutely. And are you looking to expand in other markets as well?Marios Kirios (19:54)
I’m not really no, I like to see them myself touch them see him walk them and Check them out myself We have bought some in the past ⁓ further away than we’d like and They weren’t the best experience not the best experience, but you know, you don’t know the people there You don’t have contractors there. You don’t have ⁓ You know, you’re a lawyer that you trust ⁓title company that you trust, you know? So I like to keep it local, at least for right now anyway, you know?
Michelle Kesil (20:33)
Yeah, absolutely.So when you talk about creative financing, can you expand on what that looks like for you?
Marios Kirios (20:45)
Yeah, so in the past we’ve done long-term seller finance. So it’d be like somebody that’s living there would be like a 15 or 20 year loan with, you know, 10 % down and 8 % interest over the 15 or 20 years. No balloons, no nothing like that.But like I said, we’ve gone away from that and we’ve been doing the seller finance on flippers and on that we typically do $20,000 down and 10 % interest only over 12 months. So we do interest only that way they have a payment during their flip. That way they can use all the money they have to fix the house and
You know, it’s cheaper than hard money, so I’m kind of competing with hard money people a little bit. Because hard money people want either 10 or 20 % down. They want, you know, three points, 12 % interest in this principle and interest. So I’m just trying to, you know, compete with them a little bit, but not really, you know, of course, like, you know, it’s…
You know how it was, you know?
That’s it. And then like a flip side.
You know, we were in obviously first position alone on the house. Sometimes they, sometimes depending on the size of the project, they might get hard money. Also for the flip side, you know, for the rehab part. And they would, you know, then the hard money guys in second position, so they would probably require more in interest. You know, I’ve seen as much as 15 to 18 % for second position hard money.
Michelle Kesil (22:50)
Yeah, absolutely, that makes sense. Thank you for explaining that.So before we wrap up here, somebody wants to reach out, connect, learn more, where can people find you and reach you?
Marios Kirios (23:04)
I’m on Facebook and Instagram, MariosKirios on both. Just my full name. ⁓ That’s it.Michelle Kesil (23:18)
Okay, perfect. Well, thank you for coming on here. Appreciate your time and your perspective.Marios Kirios (23:25)
absolutely think you’re having me.Michelle Kesil (23:27)
Yeah. And for the listeners tuning into the show, if you got value, make sure you’ve subscribed. We’ve got more conversations coming with operators like Marios who are building real businesses. We’ll see you on the next episode.
