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How the BRRR Method Built My Portfolio from Zero (Real Numbers + Lessons)

By October 14, 2025Real Estate Pros Show


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Show Summary

In this conversation, William Holder shares his journey as a real estate investor, discussing the challenges he faced, the lessons learned, and the strategies he employs to succeed in the industry. He emphasizes the importance of patience, responsible scaling, and building strong partnerships while navigating the complexities of real estate investment.

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    Investor Fuel Show Transcript:

    William Holder (00:00)
    even though I wake up every day staring at the ceiling of this house that ruined my life for three years, ⁓ I now am able to find a way to make that a win. And by make that a win, I mean I’ve got I’ve since invested in

    20 or more rental buildings. I’ve sold a few, I’ve kept a few. We have about 70 doors and I’ve done about 20 flips and ⁓ my team is selling a couple hundred homes a year. We’re very busy, I’m all in on real estate ⁓ and I owe that to one.

    those mistakes I made, but to the BRRR Method.

    Michelle Kesil (02:10)
    Hello everybody, welcome to the Investor Fuel podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Kesil, and today I’m joined by someone that I’m looking forward to chatting with, William Holder, who has been making serious moves as a real estate investor as well as agent. So excited to have you on the show today, William.

    William Holder (02:32)
    ⁓ excited to be on here, thank you.

    Michelle Kesil (02:34)
    I think our listeners are really going to take something away from how you’re approaching scaling your real estate portfolio using the BRRR method. So excited to dive in.

    William Holder (02:48)
    Awesome, ⁓ yeah, predominantly what I do and what I’ve followed over the last eight years of being an investor is the BRRR Method. ⁓

    a little backstory in 2011, I think just like most people I read Rich Dad Poor Dad and it kind of legitimately rewired my brain. I always thought I was gonna be working at nine to five and maybe at some point in my life I’d make six figures and hopefully retired happily. And after reading that book I realized I had this whole thing incorrect. I was going about it the wrong way. I had to become my own boss. So the problem was I was 25, I was broke,

    didn’t really have any money or anything to put into it. I moved to America in 2002 when I was 15, didn’t really have any money or connections and finished high school, worked a couple of jobs, went to community colleges, but really didn’t know what I wanted to do or how to figure this out. And after reading Rich Dad Poor Dad, I decided I gotta bet on myself. mean, if I’m gonna change my life and the life for my family, I had to go a different route. So I decided to get my real estate license and to

    I in real estate, but quickly found out you need to make money to invest in real estate. So, ⁓ started selling a few homes here or there to a few of my friends and family members after my full-time job. And just kind of slowly fell in love in that side of the industry and realized there’s a real business there. If you scaled it, there’s a real business. And that was my way to get into real estate investing. So, I decided to quit my job, go into real estate full-time. It was a big swing. But after two years, ⁓

    pretty strong real estate business, I was able to get back into investing. What I learned in that two years is that there are a lot of investors out there and they don’t really value real estate agents nearly as much as they should, in my opinion at least. So I got taken advantage of by a few investors and it’s my own fault, I should have seen it coming, but they would get frustrated, tell me they weren’t making money, I would cut my commissions. And after a few years of doing that, I just decided, this isn’t that…

    Difficult I can do this right I can figure this out so there was a property that came up in a town I lived nearby

    pretty awesome property and this was 2017, two years of me being a realtor and this, wasn’t hard to find deals back then. In 2017, people were finding deals all over the place, right? It wasn’t a very difficult thing to do. It was to find a flip or a burr. I didn’t even know about burrs really that well at that point, but I knew about flips and a property came up, my client bid on it. There were 20 offers we lost. It went back on the market, we bid again.

    Same thing, another bunch of offers we lost, it fell through again. And the agent who knew me, done a couple deals with me, reached out and said, hey Will, I know you’re a good agent, the bank’s frustrated here, this was a foreclosure, they know you’ll close, I know you’ll close, so can ⁓ you let me know if your buyer’s interested, I’ll get you this deal. So I reached out to them and they didn’t wanna do it, and again, these were the investors that I think were kind of… ⁓

    taking advantage of the situation of me being a bit of a rookie. So I decided I’m gonna do this flip myself. And that was probably the worst and best decision of my life. ⁓ I have a pretty… ⁓

    hellish story when it comes to that transaction. I closed on it. My sister and I decided to go in and try to do this flip ourself. And one of the things I teach to people that I speak to in my agents is don’t go too big too fast. And I learned that from going too big too fast, right? I bought a property that needed to essentially be knocked over. And at the time I was optimistic. You know, I did some rookie things like I

    Got three contractors, went with the cheapest one. ⁓ You know, got left in the dust by two contractors. ⁓ Got left in the dust by a lawyer. I mean, it was three years of torture of my life getting through this flip. And really taught me.

    all the things I don’t want to do as a real estate investor, right? I’m lucky that I was able to sell enough real estate to keep myself afloat and to really build myself back up whilst getting out of this project. And I remember it every day and I try to take as many of the experiences I got from that and apply them to what I’ve done since because I still live in the house to this day. ⁓ In 2020 when we were completed with the project,

    put it on the market two months later, COVID happened in Pennsylvania where we live. You weren’t allowed to sell real estate. So I decided to sit there, looked at my wife and said, I think we’re moving into this thing. don’t think… ⁓

    you know, selling it at a loss is a plus for us at this point in our life. So it worked out. mean, I just had my first kid. needed a bigger house anyway. We moved in, luckily with appreciation and with the way things have changed, the house is worth a lot more than it was back then. And if I were to sell it today, it won’t be a break even anymore. And I was able to parlay that into some significant wins because the appreciation and the value in the property led me to be able to take out a line of credit, which I’ve used to invest over and over and over again since that loss. So even though I wake up every day staring at the ceiling of this house that ruined my life for three years, ⁓ I now am able to find a way to make that a win. And by make that a win, I mean I’ve got I’ve since invested in

    20 or more rental buildings. I’ve sold a few, I’ve kept a few. We have about 70 doors and I’ve done about 20 flips and ⁓ my team is selling a couple hundred homes a year. We’re very busy, I’m all in on real estate ⁓ and I owe that to one.

    those mistakes I made, but to the BRRR Method.

    ⁓ I’m not sure if your viewer, I’m sure your viewers are familiar with the BRRR Method. Anyone that’s listened to Bigger Pockets or anything of that nature or any investor type podcast have heard of the BRRR Method. But for those that don’t, it’s buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. I’ve even heard someone put depreciate in there, which is certainly something people should think about as well. ⁓ But I learned that to me,

    it’s the best way to invest in real estate, especially as someone that’s not coming into the business or the industry with a lot of money. ⁓ It’s really a good way to rinse and repeat and reuse your money as often as possible. Right?

    It’s the hardest, in my opinion, it’s the hardest type of investing because you’re doing all of the things that every of the other stages has, right? ⁓ If you’re a flipper, you’re buying, you’re fixing it up and you’re reselling it. If you’re turnkey investor, you’re buying it and you’re renting it. ⁓ With BRRR, you’re buying, you’re looking for a deal, you’re buying the deal, you’re rehabbing the deal, you’re renting it, you’re refinancing and you’re going to add it all over again. It’s all of the steps compacted into

    to one transaction and it’s very, very, very, very difficult. And it’s a tough pill to swallow because most people don’t realize that when you’re done with a burr or turning a property into an investment property, you’re really not making that much money. At the end of the day, if you’re looking at it from a per door perspective, you’re not making that much money. On average, we make somewhere around 150 to $200 per door after

    all is said and done every month. That’s after we factor for principal interest, taxes, insurance, capital expenditures, vacancies, any ⁓ utilities that we pay for as a landlord. And personally, I factor 18 % for property management. I know a lot of people do 10%, but I’ve always found that doing 18 % is more accurate over time because you’re factoring at worst that your property manager is going to have to turn the unit over

    over every year. And if that’s the case and they’re taking a full month’s rent, you’re really only getting 11 months rent each year, not 12. So looking at that number, it’s really not just 10%, it’s closer to 18 % when you’re all said and done. So it’s not easy to find a good deal that fits in that framework. You really, really, really have to dig. And in order to do that, that might require you getting out of your comfort zone, right? It require you investing in markets that…

    maybe aren’t in your primary market or aren’t somewhere you thought you would be an investor in. ⁓ So, you one of the main things I teach people when we’re doing BERS is expect that this is a method that works at scale. It doesn’t work if you’re looking to retire from your job this year or in the next five years or even the next 10 years. It’s a method that works at scale. You have to start slow.

    understand, learn, take your lumps on a small property, and then eventually grow that to the point where you have enough that maybe you can clump those properties, sell them, do a 1031 exchange, and buy something with a larger down payment, and then burrow a bigger project. And that’s when you really start to see the profits stacking. Does that make sense?

    Michelle Kesil (13:54)
    Yeah, absolutely. It makes a lot of sense. I love how you really simplified that process and yeah, just shared how it has been supportive for your journey and how you’ve made it work and some of the roadblocks that can happen. It’s important for people to be aware of all of that.

    William Holder (14:16)
    Yeah, yeah. you know, ⁓ I think an important part and something you guys asked for is kind of defining, you know, what your goal is from all of this before you get into it. Like, because in any career, in any journey or anything you chase in life, you need to have a goal or else it’s just gonna lead to an empty result, right? And ⁓ it’s corny, but the result’s not the…

    the good part the journey is. in terms of this for me, it’s always been about.

    eventually having an easier life for my kids, for my family, to give them an opportunity that I never had growing up.

    And that’s the end result. But I’m having fun along the way now. I mean, I didn’t have fun for three years. It was a nightmare. It was terrible. I had to learn how to have fun doing this again. And that means finding properties I enjoy doing this and people I enjoy doing this with.

    and like-minded individuals to do this with. ⁓ luckily I’ve built a pretty strong core group of people around me over the years that know who I am, how I operate. ⁓ And when you’re choosing partners to do these with, and I’m not a syndicator, I don’t have tons of money from a lot of people in some sort of fund that I invest in, I’m either doing this with my own money or I’m partnering with a friend or two or a family member, but…

    It’s really important to pick the right people to do that with. People that…

    align with your goals, people that understand their role in the organization, people that are going to do as much as necessary. A lot of people expect you to do everything and if you’re giving money as well as doing everything, that can become overwhelming. So I’ve aligned myself with partners that understand their role. They might lean on me for the evaluation, finding the deals, running the numbers, but they know when it comes to

    out to the properties or dealing with tenant issues or things of that nature, that’s kind of where I’m going to tap into them, right? And having partners that are along that same path ⁓ is really, really huge. If you pick the wrong ones, that could be a recipe for disaster. So, you know, being honest about your expectations, defining your roles clearly, and knowing kind of what season of life you’re in, I think is really important. You know, if you have, I’ve seen this happen with some…

    and luckily I haven’t been a part of it, if you have partners that are maybe, some are older, they’re empty nesters, they have more time, and then you have some younger partners that have young kids and their life is currently run 24 seven by working kids, might not make for a good partnership, right? That one person is expecting a lot more of the other. So you really have to pick your bandwidth, understand your.

    your roles as partners in this.

    in this entity and I think that’s really important. Now if you’re doing some sort of syndication that’s obviously handled a lot differently and it’s not my forte but I personally don’t like to do anything on my own. I just think I tried that before it didn’t work out for me. I like to have some people there to help me and also enjoy this with and keep me in check. You if I’m getting a little bit out of control you know or taking things too lightly we’re there for each other you know. So I hope that helps people that are looking to

    set up some sort of partnership that advice at least helps them not make any big mistakes.

    Michelle Kesil (18:38)
    Yeah, thank you for sharing that. think that partnership is so important because, yeah, it’s a lot of work and having the right people on your team can definitely make that process so much smoother. So something I’d love to ask you is what are you most focused right now on solving or scaling when it comes to your business?

    William Holder (19:05)
    So that’s a great question and it’s something that I think about every day because I have a real estate team with 20 something agents, we’re very busy. ⁓ We have other companies, ⁓ title, property management and we’re trying to.

    I’m trying to do all that and enjoy that while still remembering my main goal, which is investing in real estate. Everything I do is to invest in real estate. Sometimes too much. Sometimes I spend all of my extra cash on just investing in real estate and I have to reel myself back in and remember I do have a life to live and other businesses to run. So, you know, one of my main goals is scaling responsibly, scaling at a pace that makes sense, ⁓ setting realistic goals when it comes to

    that. If you had asked me eight years ago, would told you in ten years I’d be retired and on a beach and I know that’s not the case anymore. I know that’s not happening anytime soon. I’m okay with that and I don’t think it would be for me anyway. I’d probably go crazy because I have ADHD or whatever. I personally want to enjoy this and scale with the right people and scale responsibly and we look at everything on a very professional level.

    and I, meet once a week for the different entities. We have a quick 15 minute check-in just to make sure that we are on the same path and our businesses are heading in the right direction. And I wanna use that to…

    to build these businesses so that they never fail. You I want properties that are well taken care of. I’m not trying to be, you know, taking care of properties that could be considered slums. I want properties that are really well taken care of, properties that are good places for people to live, that are asking reasonable rents, and I can look back on and be proud of one day. So, scaling my businesses that are responsible and reliable rate, I think, is the number one focus for us right now.

    Michelle Kesil (21:06)
    Definitely, I love how you touched on the sustainability piece and, you know, moving things at that level instead of trying to do it all, you know, fast and maybe making it more messy than it needs to be.

    Awesome. So what would you say one of the biggest lessons is that you’ve learned from your investing journeys? I know you mentioned earlier that you’ve had some like obstacles and you’ve learned a lot through overcoming them. So maybe you can expand on one of those.

    William Holder (21:45)
    Yeah, think probably patience is my biggest… ⁓

    point to learn is to be patient, ⁓ but responsibly patient. You could be overly patient and that can hurt you. An example I’ve had of that is I had a property manager that I gave way too long to try to stabilize a property. in the end, I was trying to be understanding. I’m in real estate, I rent properties as well. It’s a different market than me. So I couldn’t do it myself. And I thought I’d give this property manager the benefit of the doubt. And that was a mistake. If I look back

    It probably cost me a lot, lot, a lot, lot of money and headaches and I’m still re-stabilizing that building. you know, that version of patience is probably a bad example, is an example of how not to be patient. When it comes to scaling my businesses and understanding that things don’t happen overnight and there really isn’t anything as easy money, in my opinion, the more it’s worth, the harder it’s going to be. ⁓ And being patient and building out that, ⁓

    that timeline realistically and having realistic expectations as to what you’re actually gonna make from that project or how long it’s gonna take to stabilize that project, I think is probably the biggest thing I’ve learned is to be patient in the right ways.

    Michelle Kesil (23:09)
    Yeah, I think patience is such an important lesson for everyone, whether you’re an investor or not, especially someone that is an entrepreneur and wanting something that’s sustainable and for that long-term vision and not just like a quick short-term hit. That’s so important.

    William Holder (23:29)
    sure.

    Michelle Kesil (23:29)
    Awesome. So before we wrap up here, if someone wants to reach out to you, connect, learn more, where can people find you?

    William Holder (23:41)
    Yeah, so I’m ⁓ very active in the real estate investor community. run the grid Delco chapter. ⁓ You can find us on YouTube. You can also find me through my team at the William Holder Realty team, or you can email me will at William Holder Realty dot com, or you could call or text our phone for 484-744-4053. Very responsive. I try to get back to people as soon as possible. We’re on Instagram. We’re on Tik Tok. We’re on Facebook. I do a free monthly seminar.

    with grid that people can come to or visit on ⁓ using the Zoom link as well if you ever wanted to be a part of those. And we rotate topics monthly as well so that can be really, really helpful for some people. I’m trying to just run.

    these seminars to educate people so they don’t make mistakes I’ve made. There’s really no added benefit to it. To me, they’re free, they’re informational. It found it to be a really great place to socialize and meet other people that are like-minded. I’ve met some of the people I invest with today at these seminars. So, if people want to reach out to me or ever jump on those, I’d love to see them.

    Michelle Kesil (24:52)
    Perfect, I love that opportunity. Well, I really appreciate your time, your story, and your perspective. Thank you for being here.

    William Holder (25:01)
    Absolutely, I appreciate the opportunity.

    Michelle Kesil (25:04)
    Of course. And for those listeners tuning into the show, if you got value from this, make sure you’ve subscribed. We’ve got more conversations with operators just like William who are building real businesses. And we’ll see you all on our next episode.

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