How Real Estate Investors Use Private Lending to Scale More Deals | Mark Abramovich

Mark Abramovich (00:00)
losing money is real, but it’s part of the risk. So that’s not actually— you know, somebody listening to this can go, “You lost 135,000. What are you talking about? That— that— like, that’s not a big deal.” That’s part of the risk I accept doing this. Right. So that’s not a— that’s not actually the— the bigger it got real. Where it got real is when we were working on a loan and the closing was supposed to be in— in a day and the money was not ready. Basically the loan file was not ready for the client and he was calling me up and basically saying, “What the hell is going on? We’re supposed to close. I’m at risk of losing the property.”

Meghan Escobar (02:11)
Welcome back to Real Estate Pros Podcast. I’m your host, Meghan Escobar, and today I am joined by Mark Abramovich. And after spending some time with him, before we get on here, I can already tell that this is going to be one of those conversations where you’re going to want to stick around to the end. So Mark, welcome to the show. Let’s start here for somebody tuning in and hearing your name for the very first time. Who are you and what problems are you solving in the real estate industry today?

Mark Abramovich (02:39)
So the problem— who am I? I’m a lender. That’s the— sorry, I’m laughing, right? Come— come—

Meghan Escobar (02:47)
Mark the lender is what I heard.

Mark Abramovich (02:49)
So the problem— so what do I do? You know, the— the day-to-day is lending, specifically for rentals and fix and flips. What problem are we solving? The financing of deals for people, whether it’s people who don’t have enough money for their first deal, right? And we’re bringing that first-position leverage, or it’s operators who want to scale and they want to do more deals at the same time. So we help them scale up to doing more deals at the same time by providing that leverage. Or it’s operators who have always done it with cash, right? There’s plenty of people out there who have been just doing real estate deals with cash and same thing. They’re now saying, “Well, okay, either I— either they’ve run out of it and they need to figure out how to cash out what they own, or they just want to cash out in order to be able to do bigger and more— and bigger deals.”

Meghan Escobar (03:42)
Nice. All right. And so most people see the success side of things, especially in the world that we live in where a lot of people live their life and highlight their life on social media platforms. Very few people see the road that it took to get there. So take us back for just a second here, Mark, and how— how it all started for you.

Mark Abramovich (04:06)
So a long, long time ago we came from the Soviet Union with a pair of suitcases per person, no language, no money. All right, so that’s where it started. Nineteen eighty-eight, we pretty much landed in Brooklyn after a three-month journey from the Soviet Union. So yes, I’ve actually come from behind the Iron Curtain. So the journey was two dollars an hour washing dishes twelve hours a day to then, you know, high school, college, the typical path of get a degree, get a job, re— you know, save up for your retirement. Along the way, my wife and I we started investing in real estate and it was purely by accident. If anybody thinks that I had this grandiose notion of, “I’m gonna be a real estate investor,” that is not the case. A lot of times in life we actually have just taken the leap and, you know, figured it out— figured it out along the way, which was real estate as well. So and— and it was really funny to find out that that was twenty years ago. So we started investing alongside of the jobs and careers we had. And then I— my wife stumbled into, you know, an ad for FortuneBuilders. So we started— you know, we joined and we learned more about real estate, learned how we were doing things wrong, learned how to do things better. And we st— started doing that, except I didn’t want to necessarily do much more real estate. I w— I was looking for what is it that would catch me and I started lending. Now, I started lending, did a couple of— you know, my first loan, it was great, right? Got hooked. The— the problem that I ran into was I didn’t know enough. And so along the way we got burned to the tune of a hundred and now thirty-five thousand dollars. So all the mistakes collectively, that— that’s my kind of losses, right? So and I’m not gonna say I’m the— it’s the biggest ones out there, but a hundred and thirty-five thousand teaches you something. And what it taught me was I needed to learn. And so the journey has been learning, learning, and again, more learning. learning how to process loans better, learning how to an— you know, analyze and underwrite deals better, learning how to look at people better. So that’s been really the journey for years, even to this day. My family goes to sleep and I still open up, you know, I start my second shift of whether I’m listening to podcasts and learning there or I’m online and learning there or working on loans and learning there. So it’s just never-ending learning and having to stay on top of things.

Meghan Escobar (07:23)
Sharp. Yeah, I got it. Nice. And you know, every operator, every business owner that I’ve ever had the opportunity to connect and have a conversation with, has a moment where things got real. And you may have mentioned that in that last little snippet, but was there a specific moment for you that may have gone sideways or something that you had to pivot really fast? Do you mind sharing one of those moments— a mistake, a setback, a lesson? I know you— you again talked a little bit on that, but whatever comes to mind.

Mark Abramovich (07:58)
things that got real. So losing money is real, but it’s part of the risk. So that’s not actually— you know, somebody listening to this can go, “You lost 135,000. What are you talking about? That— that— like, that’s not a big deal.” That’s part of the risk I accept doing this. Right. So that’s not a— that’s not actually the— the bigger it got real. Where it got real is when we were working on a loan and the closing was supposed to be in— in a day and the money was not ready. Basically the loan file was not ready for the client and he was calling me up and basically saying, “What the hell is going on? We’re supposed to close. I’m at risk of losing the property. I’m at risk of losing my earnest money. What is going on? We need to solve this.” That is where it’s real. It’s not actually— and it’s a really funny thing, right? It— it comes from the same fears of, you know, “What will people say about me?” I’m much more worried about what will people say about me than I am worried about me. So—

Meghan Escobar (08:56)
Your reputation in the business, right?

Mark Abramovich (08:58)
Right. And how I perform for others. I’m very concerned about messing up one of my clients’ deals. That is the fear. It’s not actually about the money. The money, look, as I said, it’s part of the risk, it’s part of the understanding that a deal can go sideways. So we do our— obviously we do the best we can to underwrite and do all the due diligence that we can and we’re collecting background and credit and doing appraisals and reviewing deals. All of that is— you know, it’s part of the game, I wanna say. But my concern always is how will this work out for my clients? Not being able to close on time because the contract’s gonna expire and the seller may turn around and walk away, or agents calling up and going, “What’s going on? We’re supposed to be closing.” That is actually where it gets real. So my— over the years, the— not struggle— the— over the years, the— the thing that I’ve always worked to refine in the process—

Meghan Escobar (09:27)
Mm.

Mark Abramovich (09:52)
—making sure that the deal itself is flowing as everybody is expecting it, so that it does, you know, setting the correct expectations and getting things done as they’re supposed to get done.

Meghan Escobar (10:38)
Thank you for sharing that. I think it’s incredible. And it— it— it’s probably why your wife says you’re the best at what you do. I think that, you know, these are the things that most people don’t talk about in their business. And honestly, it’s— it’s what separates folks from who are here to dabble and just create a transaction and make a little bit of money versus the ones who are actually in to stay in the game long term and actually care about the outcome for the client, not just for themselves. I feel most people— or I— I don’t want to say most people— a lot of people are typically in business for what’s in it for me. And of course you want the profit or you want the— the outcome to benefit both, but I love that you’re always placing the client first, it seems.

Mark Abramovich (11:32)
It— it— it— it’s true. It’s not it seems, it is. So here’s— so here’s a perspective for you and the audience listening to this. So we spend— just organically it happens this way. We spend more time with our coworkers, our business partners, our clients than we do with our families. It just happens that way. If you think about the amount of hours, let’s say a job right, forty hours a week. That means organically we’re spending less time with our family than with our coworkers, okay? It is what it is. But here’s the— but here’s the— I— I guess, the other result out of it. You can make a conscious decision, which is what I did, when I said, “Okay, if I’m gonna be doing business with people and I’m gonna be spending essentially more time with them than with my family, whom do I want to be surrounded by?” And I made the decision that I want to do business with friends. And I know we all hear that adage about, you know, “Don’t do business with friends,” or, “Friends and business don’t mix.” Okay. Well, again, I have a choice of whom to spend my time with. And so my clients, I essentially decided, okay, I want my clients to be my friends so that I’m spending most of my time with friends. And vice versa. I want my friends to become— to be my clients, right? Because I’m spending most of my time with them. And so that decision, right, that’s where the performance is. I ha— I’m surrounded by my friends. I have— I’m— to perform for my friends. They’re my friends. They’re not just somebody who’s going to disappear. And now I’ve been around for long enough, right? I’ve been at the lending side for ten years. It’s really funny, you know, you think about it— overnight success. No, it’s ten years in the making to get to that overnight part, right? But today my clientele are truly friends. They’re people I’ve had dinner with. I’ve stayed at their houses. They’ve stayed at mine. We’ve— you know, our kids have played together, we travel together. And so I get the chance to spend my time with friends, but that also means that I’m— I need to perform for my friends. They’re— they have certain expectations and I want to perform for them as well.

Meghan Escobar (13:39)
I love that. And it’s a— it— it’s a great perspective because I— you’re right. Most people say, “Don’t do business with family and friends.” And I— I— I agree with you. Like, we are spending time. So whether or not you like it or not, these people— what— well, how do you want to look at them? Do you want to look at them as an enemy or— or— or a coworker? Or let’s create a relationship here and become friends and family. So the connections, I love it. It’s the first thing that you said when we— we started talking and I think that’s so important. Let me ask you this. What are you most focused on solving or scaling next— next? Like what is the next big goal for Allways Capital?

Mark Abramovich (15:02)
The next big goal is processes and systems inside delegation. being able to take me out of, let’s say, some of the day-to-day that I do do. Mm-hmm. Do do. That’s pretty much what it is. It’s do do that I have to do. But it’s the things that I have to do which are repetitive, many menial tasks. And so the— what is it that we want to do? Systematize and automate more and more so that the process can flow without human participation, I want to say, right? An easy, simple process from, okay, you— you input your loan all the way through to the mortgage release. You know, it can get handled by automation as much as possible. And I don’t mean automation, a robot calls you up and says, “Hello, put in your document.” But obviously a portal where you can upload docs and we’re able to see them, right? Automate as much of it so that it’s as little human touch as possible. But what’s funny is this, and this is one of the guiding principles that we use. I personally despise calling up a company— anybody, anybody I do business with, whether it’s a bank, mortgage company, anyone else— and having to jump through a half hour of automated hoops to get to a human being. So one of the things that is a guiding principle for us is if you call that number that’s in my background right there, a human being will answer it. Obviously, they may be on— you know, our— our assistant might not be available, she may be helping somebody else. Well, okay, it will forward to one of us. And if we’re unavailable, yes, obviously a voice mach— you know, a voice message will pop up. But the idea is that we are available. You can talk to us personally, you can have a conversation. So the human touch is there. Someone can answer the phone and tell you what’s going on as much as we try to automate. So it’s systems to help us, but essentially it’s to scale up our performance rather than just hand it off and not know what’s going on.

Meghan Escobar (16:53)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Love that. I— yes, the hoops and the press one, press five. It’s like, just give me a— give me a human being. A human being and let them operate like where the call is going next, right?

Mark Abramovich (17:09)
already had to pick up the phone. If I had to pick up the phone, the system already broke. It’s fine that it broke, but now having to jump through those hoops— hoops exacerbates it. Having to call a company, and— and I’m sure everybody listening to this has experienced this. You call up a company and they go, “Okay, we need to verify your identity. We’ve identified you by the phone number. Awesome. Now, can you play— please verify your identity? Okay. Press one if this Mark Abrand—” one.

Meghan Escobar (17:14)
Yeah.

Mark Abramovich (17:37)
Okay, can you please put in your last four of your social? Tik, tick, tick, tick. Awesome. Can you put in your birthday? Tick, tick, tick, tick. Awesome. Okay. We’re forwarding your call to a— you know, to someone to help you. Awesome. “Hi, this is so and so. I just need to verify your identity. Can you tell me your name?”

Meghan Escobar (17:50)
Yeah. It’s what? You’re doing it anyway, yeah.

Mark Abramovich (17:56)
And it’s like, why did we just do this? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Meghan Escobar (18:01)
Yeah. Time. Wasting time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. for somebody who might feel stuck, typically our listeners are young minds just getting starting in— in the industry, or you know, people who are well invested and looking to level up to the— to the— to the next tier of whatever their business is going. So for somebody who might be feeling stuck, what’s one lesson here, Mark, that may have taken you years to learn, but could potentially save years of frustration?

Mark Abramovich (18:30)
people you know connections your network is your net worth I didn’t truly understand this until much later unfortunately I should have been much more meticulous and diligent collecting business cards I should have been much more meticulous and diligent putting together my list of people that I’ve met over the years your connections the rooms you’re in the people you’re surrounded by there’s no replacing it Having a chance to sit down with someone who has been doing— participating in syndications and putting them together for twenty, thirty years, that’s huge when you’re looking at how to raise a capital fund or how to talk to people. There is no— there’s no substitute for that. So if you’re feeling stocky, you need start finding rooms of— of people who are operating at a higher level. I mean, and what’s funny is once you get— when you start coming into these rooms or you start meeting business owners and high-level operators, what you start finding out is they’re all willing to share what they know. It’s very few people who actually go, “I’m not telling you that secret.” It’s— it’s amazing. We walked into a— a lending company who essentially does what we do, but they’re bigger than us and they’re scaled up and everything was— I— I went to visit them with one of my partners and it was amazing when pretty much the entire process was opened up like, “Here’s what we do.” It was like, this is incredible. Like, my God, we got to see behind the curtain. But what does that do? All it does is great. When the deal— when it makes sense to send them a deal, they get the deal because we saw behind the curtain. And I’ve seen this time and time again. So my— I guess, advice to anybody listening to this is find business— like, high-level operators, and it doesn’t matter what business. Somebody who’s running a deli can tell you about business just the same as somebody who’s running a car wash or is doing flipping at a high— you know, high level, right? multiply as an operator— flipper or whether they’re a rental own— owner, it doesn’t matter. High-level operators will share with you what they’ve done, what were their challenges and what their— what— what they’ve learned and what can help you. And it— it is massive, massive.

Meghan Escobar (20:45)
Yeah. Something you can’t fake. Yeah. again, agree. Like, a— relationships are everything in business. And if you are in business, you need to understand how important relationships are and how they can— you know, move you, inspire you, motivate you, you know, learn, continuous learning. You know, the moment that you stop— I’ve learned this from a mentor of mine a few years back. Like, the moment that you stop learning and you stop creating is the moment you stop living. Truly, you know. So, yeah.

Mark Abramovich (21:17)
Meghan, you just mentioned something. Mentor. So here’s something really funny. I didn’t quite g— grasp this until I— I got one and it was organic that I ended up with a— an accountability partner. But here— here’s a simple perspective for anyone. If you look at all high-level athletes, all of them—

Meghan Escobar (21:37)
I love earners, all of—

Mark Abramovich (21:38)
All of them have a coach. Every single person has a coach. Somebody who is guiding them, helping them. And it doesn’t matter. Obviously, Michael Phelps’ coach did not win seven or eight golds or whatever in a single, you know, in a single co— you know, Olympic Games. I understand that. Mike Tyson— Mike Tyson’s coach did not, you know, become the heavy, you know, was not the heavyweight world champion. Okay, I get it. But even Tyson had someone, and even Michael Phelps had someone, even Michael Jordan had someone. We all—

Meghan Escobar (22:11)
Tony Robbins, the guru of self, right? Yep. Yep.

Mark Abramovich (22:15)
So and that’s where I was going to go to as well. So first of all, an accountability coach or a mentor, I think it’s vital. And I’m blessed to have somebody in my corner where every single, you know, every Thursday morning we have a weekly call of, “Okay, what did you do? What’s your next week look like? What is it that you’re trying to accomplish?” And it’s incredible because he’s noting down— and it was great to find out that he was noting down what my goals were over the years. And so we looked back and suddenly it was like, “Wait a minute, you hit this goal, you hit this goal, you hit this goal, you hit this goal.” I’m like, my God, like, that is incredible. So I understand the power. And yes, Tony Robbins— so Jim Rohn was the man. It was funny to go to Tony Robbins’ event and— and he opens up his mouth and starts talking. I’m like, “I could just go online and watch Jim Rohn videos and get this.” And that’s my other point. If you’re feeling stuck, YouTube at this point, if you think about it, has recordings of all of these masters. You can find their presentations, you can find their shorts, you can find their full, you know, full-on presentations. Learn. I mean, and the beautiful thing is you can speed up the playback to, you know, one and a half times to two times to three times if you can handle it. So you’re absorbing that information much, much faster. And by the way, if you think it doesn’t work, it works. Just absorbing— just listening and listening and listening and listening over and over, it will start seeping in and will be incredible to find out suddenly, you know, two months or three months or six months in and you do something, you’re like, it finally clicked in when I was doing, you know, what I was listening to, and here it is. So yeah, a mentor.

Meghan Escobar (23:54)
The subconscious is always listening. Yep. Yep. And you may have— you may have kind of answered this question, but what’s one thing that you’ve learned about building meaningful relationships that most people might overlook?

Mark Abramovich (24:09)
They— to be real. They have to be real. In the end, run, I w— I want to spend time with people I want to spend time with. I don’t like them, I— I don’t want to spend time with them. I had the opportunity to— again, I’m friends with him and he’s a CEO of one of the larger hard money companies in the country. And we were having, you know, we’re at a cocktail mixer and, you know, having a conversation. Later on we ended up at dinner. But the conversation wasn’t at dinner, okay? It was a cocktail hour. And the question was, “How do you hire?” Right? And he does have hundreds of people under him. And the question was, “Well, how do you hire? How do you choose whom to hire?” And he said, “Well, skills—” he goes, “You can teach skills, you know, that’s not really the most important thing.” He goes, “I look at it as I’m gonna be spending an inordinate amount of time with this person. Do I want to spend an inordinate amount of time with this person?” My God. Like, right? There’s your criteria. I’m gonna spend— and we started with this, right? that I’m gonna be spending an inordinate amount of time with my clients, so I might as well make them friends or have my friends as my clients. And it’s the same thing he was saying. How does he hire? “We’re gonna spend an inordinate amount of time with this person. Do we wanna spend an inordinate amount of time with them?” So there’s— yeah.

Meghan Escobar (25:27)
Make it real. Yeah. Yeah. I— I— I think that’s really solid advice, right? Who wants to spend time with people that they don’t really like? I don’t think anybody. So thank you. Thank you. And listen, Mark, I appreciate your time, your story. And the more important part is your perspective. I think we need more people in this space who are doing things the right way and are fully authentic and real and putting their clients first. So thank you again so much for being here. And for those of you that are tuning in, before we go there, let’s— if somebody wanted to connect with you, Mark, and learn more about what you’re doing and just follow your journey, what would be the best place for them to find you or reach you?

Mark Abramovich (26:19)
they can find us on our website, awcnexus.com. That essentially will take a person to a landing page that guides them to whether they want to borrow money or invest in our fund or get in touch with one of us and actually schedule a call and talk to us. You can email me at [email protected]. Mm-hmm. You know, easy enough. Find me on Facebook. Although honestly, I’m a real human being and I enjoy talking to people whether it’s on the phone or I’m meeting them in person. So the best place really is email me or call our number.

Meghan Escobar (26:54)
Love that. And it’s right on the— the back of his background there. So you can go ahead and tune in and find him on the website or on the number that’s provided. So thank you, thank you. And for those of you that are tuning in and feel like you did get some value from Mark here, make sure you subscribe. We’ve got more conversations coming in with operators just like Mark who are out here building real business, real relationships in real time. So thanks for joining. We’ll see you on the next episode.