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Show Summary
In this episode of the Real Estate Pros podcast, host Kristen interviews Josh Green, owner of Traverse Capital and Alchemy Design and Development. They discuss Josh’s journey into real estate, focusing on capital raising, the townhome market, and the importance of networking. Josh shares valuable insights for aspiring developers, including tips on building relationships and the significance of providing value to others in the industry.
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Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
Josh (00:00)
That’s a good question. I mean if you if you’re waiting for the perfect moment to know everything you’re never gonna get started and so you have to take that you know kind of leap of faith at some point and You know there’s things you can do if you’re not fully comfortable in your experience or background or knowledge you can always collaborate with other people that can kind of fill in some of the gaps andI’ve tried a handful of times over my career to go out and do kind of what I’m doing now, but I always thought, I can learn design, I can learn construction, you know I can learn all these pieces and you just can’t. And so I’ve learned, you know, I’m just going to focus on what I’m good at and I’m going to bring in partners and people that I trust and consultants to fill in the gaps. And so you’ll never be 100 % ready.
Kristen (02:15)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros podcast. I’m Kristen and I’m here with Josh Green, who’s the owner of Traverse Capital and also the owner of Alchemy Design and Development. We’re going to talk all about raising capital and developing townhomes. So I’m excited to get into it. Thanks for being here, Josh. ⁓Josh (02:30)
thank you so much for having me.Kristen (02:32)
So let’s get to the beginning. How did you get into the real estate world?Josh (02:34)
It’s kind of a long story. I’ll try to keep it short. I kind of stumbled my way into multifamily appraisal and consulting and I did that for a long time for 11 years all over Utah and Western states. I loved working with developers and I saw that they were doing much better than I was financially as an appraiser and so I decided I wanted to make that switch. I went back to school. I did the Master’s of Real Estate Development program at the Universityof Utah and graduated, got recruited to work for a residential developer here in the state and yeah so I do development consulting and education.
Kristen (03:15)
Amazing and what kind of got you into the development world because you know when you were kind of doing loans and stuff like thatJosh (03:22)
I just, I love the creative side of, you know, seeing something come from, go from an idea to like actually being built and people using it, living in it day to day, calling it home. I just really, my background is finance and underwriting, but I also have this creative side and development seemed like a way to kind of do both things, combine the finance with the creativity and building.Kristen (03:44)
Definitely, and I think that’s a big jump that a lot of people want to make is, you know, even just going from traditional investing into development. How did you kind of get the tools to dive headfirst into that?Josh (03:54)
Yeah, I mean I had a good background of underwriting and market analysis from the work I did as an appraiser and consultant. But I didn’t know how to put a deal together. I didn’t know how to, you know, the capital stack. I didn’t know how to put it together. I didn’t know how to go get a loan with the bank. And so that’s why I went back to school. I did the Master’s Real Estate Development program, kind of pick up some more of those pieces that I was missing. And then working for a developer after I graduated, I got to see allthose pieces together and it was a great opportunity to put me in position to go find loans to go talk to investment groups and put the capital stack together to get the deal funded.
Kristen (04:31)
Yeah, and since you have such a great background in all that, what are some tips you can give people? Like, what do first-time investors need to have before going out and borrowing money?Josh (04:41)
Yeah, think first of all, it’s a track record. I think lenders and investors both want to know who you are, what your experience is, what other projects you’ve done. So I think that’s probably number one before you even get into the deal is who are you? Can we trust you? What’s your background? And then it’s just having a solid deal put together with you know solid underwriting.you know, not shooting for the stars with your assumptions, doing some, underwriting a realistic project that they can actually get funded.
Kristen (05:09)
Yeah,definitely. what are kind of like, you know, with credit, I think people kind of worry about that. They don’t know if their credit is high enough or anything like that.
Josh (06:04)
Yeah, and you know you can always you can always partner with people too. That’s another thing that I’ve learned along the way is, you know, I can’t do everything myself and I’ve got to kind of focus on what I’m good at and bring in other people that can help. If you don’t have a track record or the credits, find someone that does and partner with them, bring them in on the deal to kind of fill that gap with either the lender or the investors.Kristen (06:27)
Yeah, and I know one of your really great qualities is you’re good at connecting people and you’re great at mentorship and all that. How do you suggest people go out and find mentors and people to work with?Josh (06:40)
Great question. I love LinkedIn. I’m pretty active there and have made a lot of really great connections there. So that’s a great place. Real estate, at least in here in Utah, it’s really a small world. the more you can meet people in person, I think LinkedIn is a great place to kind of start a connection. But I think the quicker you can take that offline, either phone call.Zoom or meeting in person, the better. I always encourage people to go to real estate events and not just sit in the back and listen, but actually go and meet people and make connections.
Kristen (07:13)
Yeah, and you’ve actually developed your own community, haven’t you?Josh (07:16)
We have, yeah, we do several events here. One that combines two of my favorite things, tacos and real estate. We do a monthly event every every month, obviously monthly. That’s really fun. We’ve made a lot of great connections that way. I also started Impact Development Collaborative, which is a small group that meets a couple times a month.all kinds of backgrounds, developers, contractors, architects, lenders, really just to kind of support each other and help each other. It’s hard to do deals right now and so having a kind of a network of supports is really helpful.
Kristen (07:49)
Amazing. And so, you you were talking about raising capital and getting out there. You’re obviously very good at that. You have traversed capital. Tell us more of your capital raising tips. I think a lot of people struggle because they just don’t even know where to start.Josh (08:02)
Yeah, and it’s been a challenge. When I was working for this other developer here in Utah, it was a bigger scale. And so we were working with private equity groups and real estate funds and things like that. When I left, my projects were way too small for those that same network, right? And so we kind of had to start from scratch. We started with friends and family.I started being more active on LinkedIn. We started putting some of these events together just to be able to meet more people and let people know what we were doing and where the opportunities were.
Kristen (08:33)
Absolutely and you know as people go out and try to raise You know they meet people all that how do you even go about the process of? You know meeting your goals. I what are some tips and tricks just about mindset?Josh (08:47)
Yeah, I try to provide some value first before I ask for anything. And so that’s where I start is, you know, can I help you either with, you know, education, finding a deal, consulting, you know, how can I help you with what you want to do first? And if investing in one of my deals fits what’s helpful to you, then we can talk about that. But I start from a place ofhow can I help other people first before asking for anything?
Kristen (09:13)
Yeah, I think that goes a long way and I think people really appreciate that and often return the favor.Josh (09:52)
Yeah, definitely.Kristen (09:53)
Yeah, and so you’re in townhomes right now, developing townhomes. Tell us about why that’s so exciting in particular, the opportunity there.Josh (10:04)
Yeah, there’s a lot of reasons why. I think it’s getting really expensive. It is expensive and it’s getting worse. You know, home affordability to buy a home here in Utah. And so for a lot of people, they just can’t do it with where interest rates are, where pricing is. And so renting a townhome is a good…a good next place to go if you’re kind of grown out of your apartment. You’ve maybe got a pet or a partner. A townhome is a great place to move up if you can’t quite buy a home yet. And I think there’s just a lot of demand for that product. know, what our tenants pay for a month in rent, including professional management, maintenance, all that stuff, is so much less than what it would cost to buy the same unit.
and So there’s one reason there’s a lot of demand. They’re pretty easy to build. You can build them in kind of in pods or in buildings and lease them up as you’re still building the rest of the project. Yeah, there’s a lot of reasons why. I just think it’s a great product and I get really excited about it.
Kristen (11:09)
Yeah, I agree with you. I do think there’s a need for kind of those starter homes almost or, you know, ways to get into the housing market. I think that’s really, really needed. And then tell us about, you’re in the Utah market. Tell us about kind of what’s going on there.Josh (11:24)
Yeah, I love Utah. Born and raised, I’ve spent my whole career here, the last 20 plus years working in real estate. We’re really lucky to live in a state that’s pro business. We do a really good job of bringing employers here. We have a great quality of life with mountains right here and all kinds of recreation.And so that’s fueled a lot of the population growth here as well. We’ve seen so many people move to Utah from other states, starting in COVID really kind of ramped up. And it’s never really slowed down. ⁓ And so there’s just a lot of opportunity.
It’s just a great place to live, yeah.
Kristen (12:02)
Yeah, I mean, I’m sure you’ve seen some market shifts, you know, up and down, but it’s great to have, you know, I love hearing optimism about the market and each market really has its own little pocket. What do you think, like, where do think we’re going from here with the market?Josh (12:17)
⁓ that’s a really good question. I think we’re at a difficult spot where ⁓ I think things, you know, on the housing affordability side don’t really get any better until we start making some meaningful changes to, you know, zoning and parking requirements, things like that. I think that’s the first step.I think it’s a supply issue and it’s just gotten to be so hard to build new homes that that’s one of the things that’s pushing prices and rent up so much. And so I think, you know, removing barriers to just let developers build.
Kristen (12:55)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it definitely sounds like you’re a doer. You have a goal and you go out and do it. But you’re also an educator. So talk about kind of the balance there between learning the information but actually going out and doing it and learning on the job.Josh (13:53)
Yeah, I just, I love teaching and you know, whatever experience, I’ve had some great mentors that have shared their experience and knowledge with me along the way and I’m at a point where I just want to do the same thing and so yeah, I’m an adjunct at the University of Utah. I teach a couple classes up there. I do some teaching outside of the university just on my own and through ourI think it’s, I mean when I was an undergrad in business entrepreneurship, I had a lot of professors that had never started a business before. They had all this, you know, kind of academic knowledge and the few that I had that actually had been out and done it before, I just got so much more from their experience and so hopefully I can provide some of that to my students.
Kristen (14:39)
Yeah,and I think that people have one of two issues. Maybe they jump into something too quickly without learning, or they just learn and learn and learn and never actually do it. And at what point do you suggest people go out and do it?
Josh (14:51)
Yeah.That’s a good question. I mean if you’re waiting for the perfect moment to know everything you’re never gonna get started and so you have to take that you know kind of leap of faith at some point and You know there’s things you can do if you if you’re not fully comfortable in your experience or background or knowledge you can always collaborate with other people that can kind of fill in some of the gaps and
I’ve tried a handful of times over my career to go out and do kind of what I’m doing now, but I always thought, I can learn design, I can learn construction, you know I can learn all these pieces and you just can’t. And so I’ve learned, you know, I’m just going to focus on what I’m good at and I’m going to bring in partners and people that I trust and consultants to fill in the gaps. And so you’ll never be 100 % ready.
You just at some point have to have to go for
Kristen (15:45)
Yeah, and you know, as you said, bringing in partners, how do you kind of vet people? How do know when there’s an alignment there?Josh (15:53)
Yeah, it goes back to this networking, right? And just meeting people, understanding what they’re looking for. ⁓ Really, you’re trying to find people that are good at what they do and that are willing to help solve problems. And fun to be around is the other one, I guess I’d say. So that’s how I look at it. Are we…It’s hard to work with someone that’s trying to grab every last penny for themselves. ⁓ It’s much easier when everyone has kind of an abundance mindset, willing to share, willing to work together to find the best solution. And really someone that you feel comfortable that you can solve problems with and work through challenges with because they’ll always come up. so…
If you’ve got someone that just wants to point fingers and blame other people, that’s really not productive and doesn’t help move the project forward. so finding people that are willing to find solutions work together to resolve them.
Kristen (16:51)
Amazing. And I mean to kind of wrap it all up, what would be a piece of advice you wish you learned earlier that you can share with us today?Josh (17:02)
⁓ man, it’s probably gonna be just networking. I feel like I wasted a lot of years working in the shadows of my boss instead of going out and making those connections myself. And so I think you know if I could go back and do things again, I would be much more active in…meeting with these developers, making those connections rather than being in the shadows of my boss, my employer. So much of it is just networking and meeting people. And that’s something I’ve learned, like I said, later in life. I’m an introvert, so it’s easy for me to sit in the back, in the corner by myself, and not get out of my comfort zone and meet new people. But I’ve had to kind of push myself to do that because…
having a network of people that are doing similar things and complementary things is so valuable.
Kristen (17:48)
Yeah, and as an introvert who might be more comfortable, you know, standing in the background, what are your best tips to other introverts? How to kind of push themselves to get out there?Josh (17:58)
Yeah, I mean I think you know LinkedIn is a good way to do it. You know that’s pretty low stakes. You can post things or ask questions there. I recommend my students volunteer at events, you know help check people in. That’s a good way for us introverts to have people come to us instead of us go to them.And then you know we created our own events where people come to us instead of us having to seek them out. And so I don’t know that that’s the right thing for everyone to do, but it’s worked really well for us to create our own events and bring people to us.
Kristen (18:32)
Well, I mean, this has been so insightful. think you gave a lot of inspiration to a lot of people. Tell everyone where to find you.Josh (18:41)
LinkedIn is the best place to get me. I’ve got a newsletter, some other things, but you can find everything I’m doing through LinkedIn.Kristen (18:47)
Well, thank you so much for being here, Josh.Josh (18:49)
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.Kristen (18:52)
And thank you everyone for listening. I hope you got some inspiration for your business and some good takeaways. Definitely check out Josh on LinkedIn and we will see you back next time.Josh (19:03)
Thanks.
