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Show Summary
In this episode of the Real Estate Pros podcast, host Michelle Kesil interviews Pamela Goodwin, a seasoned real estate investor specializing in commercial real estate and ground-up development. Pamela shares her journey in the industry, emphasizing the importance of relationships, mentorship, and adapting to new technologies like AI. She discusses the intricacies of ground-up development, the challenges faced in real estate investment, and the significance of networking and collaboration for success in the field.
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Pamela J. Goodwin (00:00)
I know I have lots of lessons learned, but one of the things I always tell new agents is it takes as much time to work on a small deal as it does a large deal. I mean, it takes the exact same paperwork. And don’t feel just because you’re starting off, you have to start off with, let’s say, a 700 square foot lease, or a small property like that.You know, it’s always great to have a mentor in the business to find someone that you can go to to help answer questions. you know, go after those big deals too and then have your mentor help you with that because it’s the exact same paperwork and most of the time.
It’s a lot easier working on the big deals,
Michelle Kesil (02:19)
Hey everybody, welcome to the Real Estate Pros podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Kesil, and today I’m joined by someone I’m looking forward to chatting with, Pamela Goodwin, who is a real estate investor focusing on ground up development and commercial real estate. So excited to have you here today, Pamela.Pamela J. Goodwin (02:42)
Hi Michelle, so glad to be here and share what’s going on in commercial real estate. I always like to talk about commercial real estate.Michelle Kesil (02:52)
Yeah, absolutely. Let’s dive in. First off, for those not yet familiar with you and your work, can you share what your main focus is?Pamela J. Goodwin (03:01)
Sure, GoodwinCommercial is boutique commercial real estate office based here in Plano, Texas. And we’ve been in business celebrating. It’s exciting celebrating 20 years this month in business. And we specialize in single tenant net lease development from either the ground up or redeveloping business. And we also
have brokerage and consulting in our firm and we love finding those hidden opportunities for clients.
Michelle Kesil (03:36)
Yeah, amazing. How did you get started? I know you’ve been here at 20 years. You’ve developed a lot along the way. But yeah, how did you come into the real estate business?Pamela J. Goodwin (03:51)
Well, I’ve been in business. I mean, I’ve been in the commercial real estate industry for a long time, so I’ve seen the ups and downs. My father was actually, he…owned a poultry business, then later in his career started investing in residential real estate. I have my degree in interior design. I always wanted to do some format of commercial design, hotel design, and did that for one year before breaking into the
large shopping center development. So half of my career was shopping center development. Landlord went on the tenant side working for Brinker International who owns Chili’s and at the time five or six other restaurants and developed more, I guess, you know, 50 of those from the ground up, which was a great education and great way to get experience. Then one day I woke up driving down the tall way and heard a song, something more.
And I knew there was something more that I wanted to do. And like I mentioned, I started my own business 20 years ago because I always tell everybody, if you’re not waking up on Monday morning,
loving what you’re doing, then you’re in the wrong position. And I can honestly say now, obviously after 20 years, I love what I do.
Michelle Kesil (06:05)
Yeah, that’s amazing. And so what do you feel have been some of the main keys that made the biggest difference in allowing your business to grow and to run smoothly?Pamela J. Goodwin (06:19)
I think what really helps is, you know, throughout the years, just really, really, this is a relationship business and who you know really helps in the industry. So if I need to go to an architect or a civil engineer or a tenant or real estate manager, you know, lender, anyone in the field, can just, I have a Rolodex. You may be too young to even know what a Rolodex is, but, you know, I have a Rolodex. ⁓Thank goodness they have easier ways than a Rolodex how we used to have those. But a lot of really good connections when you need those. And then it’s just years of experience of a lot of people in this industry. What makes it exciting is every single deal is different.
even though I’ve done quite a few of them, I still learn on every single one. I think that’s what makes it exciting in the commercial real estate industry.
Michelle Kesil (07:21)
Absolutely. And so what are some of those key learning lessons that you’ve really implemented?Pamela J. Goodwin (07:29)
I know I have lots of lessons learned, but one of the things I always tell new agents is it takes as much time to work on a small deal as it does a large deal. I mean, it takes the exact same paperwork. And don’t feel just because you’re starting off, you have to start off with, let’s say, a 700 square foot lease, or a small property like that.You know, it’s always great to have a mentor in the business to find someone that you can go to to help answer questions. you know, go after those big deals too and then have your mentor help you with that because it’s the exact same paperwork and most of the time.
It’s a lot easier working on the big deals,
you know, as far as if you’re doing a lease, let’s say 20,000 square foot lease, it’s going to be the same paperwork as a 700 square foot. So don’t be afraid to take those big deals when you start off in the business.
Michelle Kesil (08:32)
Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s a great one. And so what advice would you continue to give to newer people in this field and industry?Pamela J. Goodwin (08:46)
I’m currently mentoring someone now and the first thing I asked her to do, I gave her homework. She wants to start off in commercial real estate. So I suggested to her to go visit her local economic development director in her community.and go meet with them. First of all, go on their website and find out all about what’s happening in the city and then set up a meeting with them because they’re a great resource for commercial real estate. I’m in touch with them a lot and that’s actually how the property that we’re developing now, the economic development director, ⁓
EDC owns the property, so they’re letting us work on it to try to bring new tenants to their community. And then recently, another economic development, they wanted to buy property in their community, and so we represented them on the brokerage field. So they’re always buying, selling, they know every single property owner in that community and their wealth of information.
Michelle Kesil (09:56)
Yeah, amazing. The network and relationships are crucial in this space.Pamela J. Goodwin (10:36)
I agree with that. If you ever attend any networking events, what I highly recommend is to either volunteer for an event that’s coming up so you get to meet people. The other thing is always show up early. So if it starts at 11 a.m., be there at 1045 and start introducing yourself.Michelle Kesil (10:59)
Yeah, that’s some awesome advice.Pamela J. Goodwin (11:02)
And sitat the table closest to the stage is always really good too because who knows, you may be sitting at the table where the speakers are.
Michelle Kesil (11:12)
Yeah, that’s a good one. And so what are you most focusing on solving or scaling to next?Pamela J. Goodwin (11:23)
that we’re always trying to solve. I’m trying to solve right now how to figure out using AI, you know, to it just seems like every email, text, social media, someone is sending something on AI how to use them.And I think it is going to be an advantage I have used a little bit. I even had chat, had a picture of one of my property sites and it was a cloudy day outside and all I did was ask chat, could you make it look like blue sky? And it redid the entire picture in a matter of seconds to a blue sky. And so we’re really focused on how to get a grip on this AI for our business, how to make it help.
versus not being another burdens of something else we have to do. And it is kind of fun just to see the different programs of what you can do. You know, yesterday I took ⁓ another company’s Excel spreadsheet. They had all the rents on there and the NOI and all the information. And I just took a picture of it and asked chat to make an Excel spreadsheet. And then,
in a matter of seconds and instantly had that information that I was able to, I still had to double check everything and then fix some of the items, but it probably saved me several hours in putting all of that information. So we’re really focused on AI, how to help clients with it in our own company.
Michelle Kesil (13:02)
Yeah, amazing. I think there’s a lot of different ways to use that tool to support your business.Pamela J. Goodwin (13:12)
AIand automation, think the two A words, mean, just like on your podcast of sending automated reminders by text or email, I mean, we’re bombarded. So all of that extra automation really helps as reminders throughout the day.
Michelle Kesil (13:33)
Yeah, definitely. It’s the new reality of tech.Pamela J. Goodwin (13:39)
I know sometimes you just need to shut it off, shut it all off and go for a walk, right? And get, right, get out in nature and turn some of this electric stuff off.Michelle Kesil (13:44)
Also an important boundary to have.Absolutely, that’s needed as well. Awesome, so I know that you focus a lot on ground up development. Can you walk us through what that process looks like?
Pamela J. Goodwin (13:55)
Hehehe.I learned from the Brinker days, some of those projects, it all just depends on the city that you’re working with. We look for pro-development cities, especially since we’re based here in Texas.
You know, lot of these cities are growing. So we usually, you know, we’re in the Dallas market, like to go out about at least an hour to two hours outside of the city limits and hit some of these smaller communities. We find it’s easier to work with the cities, work with the sellers of the property because they’re all very, very eager to get.
you know, new restaurants into their community. So we’re focused on that. you know, as you know, a lot of these real estate development deals, they can take a good minimum six months to 60 years to develop property. With the single tenant, we’re in that, or, you know, or if we take a redevelopment, it can go a lot faster. But from the ground up,
We have to figure anywhere from six months to two years for a new retail tenant by time they, you know, find the location to opening date.
Michelle Kesil (16:04)
Yeah, amazing. And so are you also operating these properties or what does that look like?Pamela J. Goodwin (16:13)
No, there are, that’s why I went to actually go work for Brinker. I thought I wanted to operate and own a restaurant. And I found out that I didn’t want to operate anything. I wanted just to own the real estate. So the tenant on all of these, the national tenant operate the business and that you as the landlord, you know, just collect the rent, the mailbox money, as they say is the nice thing.Michelle Kesil (16:41)
Yeah, absolutely. And so what other aspects of the real estate business are you working towards besides the development?Pamela J. Goodwin (16:54)
So we still do ⁓ brokerage. When I started my business 20 years ago, I knew that there had to be like different silos of amounts. So we still do consulting work because that was quicker, you know, money coming into the business and then the brokerage part. So we do do that. We’re very selective on the deals that we do list. And typically we represent the seller. Like we currently have a property, the oldest house.which turned into commercial in Plano, Texas, built in 1867. So I typically don’t take historical properties, but I did take this one after doing much research on it. So we do focus on that brokerage and representing sellers who are trying to get the highest price for their property. And then as you mentioned, we’re still doing the development work.
Michelle Kesil (17:51)
Awesome. And as far as the investing work that you do, are there any sort of obstacles that you often encounter that you’ll overcome and learned through over your many years of experience?Pamela J. Goodwin (18:15)
We, my business partner and I, we decided to buy a property out of state and in Alabama. And I learned it was a vacant bank building and learned that every single state does things differently from even putting your money into the escrow. Some of them have their brokerage companies hold the…you know, escrow funds, and then there’s all kinds of different, when you sell the property, you’re charged for a lot of additional fees. And especially if it’s not a, you know, no income state like Texas is. So I decided after that project, that was just ⁓ one last year that we sold, that I will stick to the state of Texas and stick to the market.
area that I know best is you know what we’re really focused on. So that’s one of the learning lessons but I would say you know every single deal that we do you know we learn from and then hopefully you know we don’t make you know if there are mistakes that you don’t do that again.
Michelle Kesil (19:26)
Sure, that makes a lot of sense to continue working in the way that has been successful for you.Pamela J. Goodwin (19:35)
That’s right. You always think you have to go out or recreate the wheel and you know, do all that. I found out it’s a lot more less stressful if you just kind of stay in your wheelhouse. That’s why we’ve always focused on single tenant.net lease properties. work with 1031 exchange buyers to helping them buy investment properties and we know that well of which ones that they should consider buying and won’t get stuck with it. So it’s best to kind of stick with what you know. figure that niche is good. Commercial real estate is such a broad market. I don’t think people realize that if they’re looking for a broker,
I know what I do best and if we’re not able to help them to refer them, I just referred a couple listings that we, I always say if 50 % we can help them, 75 % always best to have someone in your database that you can refer them to that you feel can help them a lot better.
Michelle Kesil (20:45)
Definitely. Back to that networking. That’s important.Pamela J. Goodwin (20:51)
I’m a huge networker. think it’s a great way. Our oldest son just got into commercial real estate and sometimes not too crazy about networking. guess we were, I was really brought up on it early on. But I’m like, you have got to go to those chamber of commerce meetings. You have got to look up on Eventbrite, some of the activities happening, find out, you know.Just different things some ones that can really benefit you and then it’s fun to not just do real estate networking events, but go try a completely different one that you know, you’re not used to to have to get out of your comfort zone and go go where that’s if you’re focused on doctors medical buildings go to some of their Event workshops and start meeting some of those doctors
and see if, I mean a lot of them own and build real estate. So look at different events. Get out of your comfort zone. That’s a hard one to do for a lot of people. It’s more comfortable sticking what they know, which is good. But when it comes to networking, know, try some different ones and see what works.
Michelle Kesil (22:05)
Definitely, I think the comfort zone, yeah, is important too. But I’m comfortable and get out of it.Pamela J. Goodwin (22:13)
I know I think I usually write down one something every single day that’s even at my age now going to get me out of my comfort zone. So it could just be the smallest thing, making a phone call to a president of a company that may be, I don’t know, a little scary to do. I still find that that kind of takes me out of my comfort zone. But once you do it and start getting comfortable with it, it really builds up your confidence.Michelle Kesil (22:44)
Definitely. And are you mostly looking for tenants that are these like retail type or who do you partner with?Pamela J. Goodwin (22:57)
We still look for the national companies that we’re bringing to the communities that people are familiar with or, you know, or there’s so the nice thing about Texas, there’s a lot of companies that are trying out Texas for, you know, example, I worked on Rock and Brews. They were a company based out of California and wanted their first Texas location.So that’s nice, a lot of those companies, Portillo’s, Shields, I mean could go on and on of a lot of these new companies. ⁓ Chicken and Pickle, out of Kansas City area, a lot of those companies are relocating to Texas, so it’s nice to bring them to the communities.
Michelle Kesil (23:44)
Yeah, awesome. Well, before we wrap up here, if someone wants to reach out, connect, learn more about what you’re up to, where can people find you and connect with you?Pamela J. Goodwin (23:55)
Find me on LinkedIn. I’m posting every single day on LinkedIn. That’s a good place to find me. And then just visit my website, pamgoodwin.com. And you can always send me an email, [email protected].That’d be the best way to reach out to me and give me a call. See if we can collaborate. That’s something I’m doing. I learned later on in my career of doing collaborations instead of trying to do it all yourself. It’s much ⁓ easier, more profitable, and more fun by collaborating with the right person in business.
Michelle Kesil (24:34)
Perfect. Well, appreciate your time and your story. Thank you so much for being here.Pamela J. Goodwin (24:39)
Thank you, I appreciate being on your podcast.Michelle Kesil (24:42)
And for the listeners tuning in, if you got value, make sure you have subscribed. We have more conversations with operators like Pam who are building real businesses and we’ll see you on our next episode.
