How Dave Seymour Combines Sober Living, Real Estate Investing, and Purpose-Driven Profit

Dave Seymour (00:00)
Like God is good, brother. God is good. The grace is good. And, know, the money follows the money follows grace. doesn’t follow greed. I’ll say that again. Money follows grace. doesn’t follow greed. You know, it’s all good. It’s all good.

Micah Johnson (00:10)
Well said.

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Real Estate Pros Podcast. I’m your host, Micah Johnson. And today I’m joined by Dave Seymour, who’s been making some serious moves in real estate investing now for the last 15 years. Dave, welcome in, man. Glad to have you.

Dave Seymour (01:59)
What’s up, brother? How are you?

Micah Johnson (02:01)
I’m doing well, I’m doing well. I’m excited for our call today. You’ve been doing this business quite some time, but here recently you found a section that not only pays that financial paycheck really well, but it is absolutely paying that emotional paycheck in deep, deep ways for you. And I love it when that happens in real estate. It’s a unique industry where you can tie those two together. So let’s dive in on that, man. For folks who aren’t familiar with you yet, know, tell us some more about yourself and what your main focus is right now.

Dave Seymour (02:30)
Yeah, we’re, we’re, we’re in a, in a mission based process right now. I’m to be frank with you. I really am. It’s, you know, finances are nice, right? Money’s great. But, one of my mentors many years ago used to say to me, what if you could do great works and make great money? What would that feel like? And, I’ve done that throughout my career to some extent or another, but I’m in a position today where I am all in, if you will. I’m, I’m involved with sober living. It’s a transition between.

⁓ rehab or a detox as some people would refer to it. And then somebody getting out into some after programs or transitioning back into community after suffering the grips of many kinds of addictions. ⁓ If I asked everybody who listens to this call, think of one person who’s been touched and been devastated by drugs and or alcohol in their lives.

The sad fact is, it’s an egregious number in the sense of it’s such a rampant disease within our society. So what if I could not only help, what if I could not only help transition folks through that hard period of time of actually removing the chemicals from their body, giving them a safe environment in which to live and now transitioning back and rebuilding their lives?

what would that look like? And I was approached by a couple of guys recently and I said, yeah, let me look first, right? I’m a periphery guy. I want to do my own personal due diligence first. And it ticked all the boxes with regard to the business component. But again, brother, it was the emotional piece, the heart of what this business does that really attracted me. So I’m super stoked for where we are today. I really am.

Micah Johnson (04:17)
love that man. it’s it. I love the question your mentor asked because I think everybody needs to answer that for themselves. Money will only do it for you for a little bit. I know plenty of people make a ton of money and they’re absolutely unhappy. Right. I keep this. I keep Jim Jim Carey statue right here because one of my favorite quotes of his was I wish everybody could get rich and famous to realize that ain’t it. That’s not the thing that does it.

Dave Seymour (04:31)
Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Micah Johnson (04:42)
Like it’s really, it’s here. It’s an individual journey for each of us to find that life that we want. And like you’re saying, man, when you were asking that question, I could think of two quick people I know that aren’t here anymore because of alcoholism, right? Because of suffering from that thing and it touches everybody. And one of the things I personally love about real estate is in its deepest layers, it is a human transaction.

Dave Seymour (04:46)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mm, mm.

Micah Johnson (05:09)
It’s yeah, are we dealing with walls and wood and stuff? Yes. But as that is just a vehicle by which a human being uses our product and allows us to earn our living and do the things. And when you are able to tap into markets, like you’re talking about where this isn’t just good math, right? As investors, we always have good math. It’s not just good math. It’s a, it’s a good deed. It is a good, like you’re saying mission based investing where

Dave Seymour (05:10)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm

Micah Johnson (06:24)
The by-product of earning a lot of money changes the trajectory of families. It reverberates out into society in a way where honestly, we won’t know the effect for 30 or 40 years really, until you hear later stories of someone’s kid that was like, my dad tells me where he was here and then he was here and then now he’s here because of that. oh, talk about getting me pumped up, man. Like that is,

Dave Seymour (06:47)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Micah Johnson (06:50)
We were talking a little bit about faith things before, and the golden rule is, do unto others as you want them to do unto you. I’ve adjusted a little myself to understand, you know what? Whatever you really want, give that away. If you can give that away, it’ll come back to you. Like, what do you really, really wanna do? Figure out how to give that away, and boom, it’s gonna come back, right? So you provide that world, that life, that house for people to move into that allows them to, and I wanna dip in on this a little bit.

Dave Seymour (06:53)
you

Yes.

Yes.

Micah Johnson (07:18)
But as we go through your story, but it’s not just the house is there’s other programs that are involved with it. So it’s like a, what I love is it’s a business plan for the person themselves too. Is there, there’s a path laid out to get better, right? Cause it’s not just, here’s a place to live. Good luck. No, no, no. It’s here’s a place. Here’s your next step. Here’s that next step because it’s not a, I don’t believe it’s a straight line journey.

Dave Seymour (07:31)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Micah Johnson (07:42)
Right. Haven’t just watched people go through it. It’s, real life that you walk through and having a place like this.

Dave Seymour (07:43)
Mmm.

Yeah,

it’s it’s you you walk in through the through the valley of the shadow brother It really is look the I’m I’ll be 60 years old this year And I was I was 23 years old when the grace of god came into my life and removed that obsession but it had taken me from one side of the world to the other like the the draw the pull of the dark side of this stuff is is just such a

Micah Johnson (07:53)
That’s it.

Hmm.

Dave Seymour (08:14)
beast, it’s an animal in and of itself. And, you know, when I got sober at 23, let’s be honest, I’m a kid, man. I’m a kid. I’d left everything that I knew back in England where I was born and where I grew up. And I’m in the mountains of Wheeling, West Virginia. I mean, that’s alcoholism. How do you go from London, England to Wheeling, Bogard, West Virginia? You know, I would tell you I made some really intelligent business decisions to get there. But no, it was was booze. It was drugs. was

sex, was rock and roll, I was chasing my first American wife. mean, just amazing the journey that booze and drugs has taken me on. So now when you fast forward to that, at 23, 24 years old, when I first got sober, there were no cell phones, there was no internet. You know, we were a bunch of guys in basements of churches filled with smoke and little books where we could find meetings. And there was a lot of coffee, there was a lot of fighting, there was a lot of shouting, but there wasn’t

the focus and the attention, like the clinical medical attention to this illness. I didn’t hear it when I was 23 years old, but through the grace of God, I stayed no matter what. They used to say to me, bring the body, David, and the mind will follow is what they said. Come along with us, take a cup of coffee, sit down, do 90 meetings in 90 days, keep your mouth shut, listen to learn and learn to listen.

Take the cotton wool out of your ears and stick it in your mouth. If you want what we have, do what we do, follow us. Still jokes me up. Follow us, follow us. We found a way. And ⁓ as the medical world, if you will, has caught up to what this really is, the sober living environment, that transition piece between

you know, detoxing from the chemicals, like I said, and then being back into society. ⁓ That world is a world that supplies comfort and care to men who are beginning to learn how to grow up again. The old timers used to say to me, Dave, it’s time to take off, take off the short pants and put on the long pants, right? Grow up, kid. Nobody is going to give you a parade because you went to work. You’re supposed to, right? Your wife is not supposed to give you a parade because you helped clean the house and took care of the kids.

Like the child inside the man that was always looking for love and attention through and didn’t get it. So it was booze and drugs was the answer to the solution to the problem. So in that sober living world, they get that opportunity to have this quality of conversation that you and I are having, right? Like I know you understand. I’m sure there’s somebody in your life who’s been touched. I can feel that. I sense that. I know that. Somebody you cared about.

was taken away because of this thing. So when you can resonate with somebody at that level, it’s real strong in that men’s living environment. And what happens is, is you begin to see the miracle of one alcoholic addict helping another one. And that’s really, was the defining moment in the 12-step movement, was the fact that they had tried sanitariums, they had tried, you know,

electrocuting the brain. They had tried all of these horrific, horrendous, you know, things to solve the dilemma of the drunk and the addict. And they couldn’t do it until two guys got together and they had an honest dialogue and an honest conversation. The grace of God entered their lives and so started this journey, which is where we are today. So sober living takes care of the connectivity that you need. Sober living takes care of community.

understanding, brotherhood, locked together, brothers in arms, right? It’s how I feel about it. And look, I’m sober a long time, but there’s nothing I enjoy more than going back to one of our sober houses on a Sunday night and doing the house meeting and listening to the guys and sharing some experience and growing those relationships and just champion each other back into life. So strong. Now,

Micah Johnson (12:58)
Right.

Dave Seymour (13:00)
Now, when they’re doing that, a lot of guys need more. And the business, so there’s my business hat and there’s my sober hat, right? So now I put on the business hat. The business hat, I can put 17 to 20 gentlemen, sober living experience into a large multifamily property, usually just one building. And in Massachusetts, the going rate for a sober bed is 300 bucks per week per bed. Well, if I could put…

that will use 20 beds, for example, if I could put 20 beds in a building at 300 a week, do the math, the cash flow alone off of that building sustains itself. Now, we’re building out the clinical piece, which is a licensed clinician to oversee what are called IOP programs, which is intensive outpatient. And this is a structured three times a week program that they follow under the direction of a clinician.

and that is then fulfilled by somebody like myself. I understand sobriety, I understand recovery, right? That person may do a one hour or a two hour, either a Zoom conversation or think of it almost like therapy without a therapist, right? It’s that connectivity again, one-on-one. A lot of 12 step programs talk about that sponsorship component. I sponsored tons of guys over the years. So we do that one-on-one three times a week. Well, now that,

is an insurance pay. A lot of guys still have good insurance from their employers, etc, etc. So now the insurance companies step in and the insurance companies compensate those three times a week anywhere between 700 to 3000 a day per guy. So now do the math and on a 50 bed sober living facility, on average, 15 to 20 % of that population is also in IOP.

Micah Johnson (14:41)
Wow.

Dave Seymour (14:55)
So do the math on that. Now it gets to be an incredibly powerful business model with a better heart than any other business I’ve ever touched. And just for those of you that like numbers from an investment standpoint, I had my financial team put together the proformer of the building that we’re in contract on right now, 20 bed unit, put together the proformer 300 bucks. We’re buying this building for 1.3 million.

Micah Johnson (15:01)
Right?

Dave Seymour (16:04)
I said, show me that pro forma, including the clinical services add an extra 500 to build out the clinical services piece. Now show me that pro forma. It came out to be a 24 equity multiple on an investment capital. I said to my guys, I said, I can’t put that in the market, bro. I can’t do it. I can’t do it because it doesn’t nobody’s going to believe it, right? It’s got to be a scam 24x. You know, who’s that guy Grant, Craig, con con

Cardone, is it 10X? Yeah, yeah, that guy, Mr. Wonderful. He’s up there with his 10X philosophies, sober living with clinical services as a 24X. It’s almost venture capital money, right? So I said to the guys, take that out of the equation. What does it look like? What’s the very best we could give an investor in a loan profile, just a straight up loan, a second lien position on the real estate alone? What does that look like with cashflow?

Micah Johnson (16:34)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Seymour (17:03)
And we’re putting out 14 % on money for a 24-month run, guaranteed because it’s a loan. It’s got lean positions. Its value is in the real estate. So when you start looking at the economics, gets to be really, really interesting. But again, another one of my mentors said to me, Dave, if you put people first and profits second, you will always win. And I’ve never forgotten that. But these profits are strong.

Micah Johnson (17:27)
always.

Dave Seymour (17:30)
You know how many how many of these sober living facilities, David, do you want to put put into the marketplace now to, you know, to help? And the answer is as many as we can as quick as we can. Right. So, yeah, that’s that’s the quick down and dirty on what the business looks like.

Micah Johnson (17:31)
Right?

Well, and it just shows you, man, that you don’t have to give up people to make profit. And I think we’re in a time of business, especially in America, where that idea is being rooted more and more and more in my opinion, where we figured out how to make money. Y’all people know how to do it for a long time. And then folks kind of got sick of it, right? There’s PhDs and how to sell you stuff and how to do all these things. But that authenticity is gone. And

Dave Seymour (17:53)
for sure.

Yeah.

Micah Johnson (18:13)
It was the book, to Win Friends and Influence People. I remember I was listening to it on the way home from my pop pop’s funeral. And he’s taken, he’s listened to the book. I mean, it’s a weird time to be listening, but I’m just like in this open space, like listening to this book, driving my family in the quiet. And he’s talking, he says, the secret to all this is you just have to actually care. If you’ll actually care about the person, money will never be your problem. And I was like, that’s a fascinating way to look at this. What if you make that shift?

Dave Seymour (18:32)
Yes.

Micah Johnson (18:41)
And in my own world, when I did everything got simpler. It’s way easier just to tell somebody the truth. Like, Hey, here’s what it is. Here’s what it ain’t. This is what it does. This is what it doesn’t do. What are your thoughts? Does that line up with you? yeah. I love it. Okay. Great, man. This is the direction. Let’s go this way. Because in the end, we said it earlier at the base level, especially real estate. It’s a human business, everything about it. It’s a team sport to get a deal done. It’s a team sport to serve your cunt, your, your,

Dave Seymour (18:45)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, let’s go this way.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Micah Johnson (19:11)
tenants or whatever it is that you’re doing, it all comes down to a person enjoying that space. And when you can really understand that now, when you’re talking about outcomes and yours are different, your outcome isn’t a happy tenant. It’s someone rehabilitated back into society that can now live in a way where they’ve graduated. They overcame all these things and now they’re moving on. mean, it’s such, it’s a beautiful commodity to trade in that you also get paid for. And that’s like the thing I want people to see.

Dave Seymour (19:13)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

It’s a calling. It’s a

calling. Yeah, it’s a calling, right? I’ve turned away capital because the heart isn’t aligned with the mission. Like there’s plenty of money in the world, bro. There’s plenty of money out there. just because you can write a check, doesn’t mean you get to come be a part of this process. And I mean that sincerely, that’s not just the line of BS. That’s, that’s, that’s the reality of it. If the heart is aligned with the money, magic happens.

Micah Johnson (19:41)
Right.

Mmm.

Mm.

Dave Seymour (20:06)
See, when money sits still, it’s like manure, right? It starts to stink. But if you can spread it around the right way in the right environments with heart behind it, it becomes a fertilizer and beautiful things start to grow. It really does. It’s like in the past year and a half that I’ve been really leaning in and participating and learning not only the business component, I know the sobriety world, like I said, but I’ve seen

Micah Johnson (20:13)
Right? Right.

Dave Seymour (20:35)
I’ve seen guys, there’s one guy from one of our sober houses, I pick him up every morning, pick him up every morning at six o’clock in the morning. And, you know, this is this is a man who has lived a horrific life, horrific life grew up in biker gangs up in New England. You know, his family members were in the biker gangs. know, crime was just part of the daily routine violence part of the daily routine, abusing society.

you know, you know, the opioid crisis, the fentanyl crisis, the oxy crisis. And this man has spent probably 30 years incarcerated from six years to two years to five years, always chasing and running and scheming. And it’s coming up on a year, bro. Yeah, yeah. April 1st.

Micah Johnson (21:27)
Wow.

Dave Seymour (21:31)
Watch this man sit there and get a one year medallion and it’s the longest, the longest he’s ever been. And the sharing that happens in that truck every morning at six o’clock. You know, he says he wouldn’t have done it without me. I know that to be not true. What I know is.

That’s what keeps me on the path, That’s what keeps me in line. That’s what keeps me humble. That’s what keeps me trying to walk in the light. it’s funny, I said the other morning, I just said that, I left my guys this morning to come do this podcast. Like I got a crew. I got this crew of guys. Like we’re knuckle dragons sobriety guys, right? Watch out, here we come. And…

You know, I left, I left the meeting that we do a seven to eight o’clock a.m. up here in the Northeast meeting and I left it early and straight away. One of my guys, Mike, he’s an Italian kid served in the Iraq war. First war carries a lot of, you know, challenges with that. But he’s an Italian guy. He’s all in. He’s all in velour. Right. We always say Mike is velour to the floor. Right. And it was coming. It was coming around. It coming around the meeting. And I had to leave. And Mike, texts me, goes,

Wow, he said, that must be the hardest thing you’ve done all day today. And I texted him back, said, what’s that Mike? said, leave the meeting when you had a chance to speak and share your wisdom. Are you okay? I’m like, stop it, dude. But you get a true brotherhood, man. If you think of that movie, Band of Brothers, and what that was like, like that’s what we do in the sober living world. We will go anywhere for any reason to rescue a brother and bring him back.

And then for me, the blessing on top of blessings is I get to see these guys, not all of them, but some of them come to Christ. And I’m like, really? This same guy, this guy who grew up in a biker community is taking pictures of sunsets. That’s sending them to me, I’m like, brother, can you imagine if the guys behind the wall knew you were taking pictures of sunsets? He looks at and he goes, I’d have to kill you if you told them.

Micah Johnson (23:27)
Right? Right?

You

Dave Seymour (23:43)
Like God is good, brother. God is good. The grace is good. And, know, the money follows the money follows grace. doesn’t follow greed. I’ll say that again. Money follows grace. doesn’t follow greed. You know, it’s all good. It’s all good.

Micah Johnson (23:54)
Well said.

Well said,

man. And it’s, you nailed it. It’s community and it’s whatever you’re going through and what you’re showing it is, and what I want listeners and viewers out there to see is we’re specifically talking about sobriety this morning. So if that’s, if that’s what you’re dealing with, you’re, it is not an alone journey, just like real estate investing. It’s not alone. We don’t do this stuff alone. Nobody has ever done anything alone. And one thing I love about your story, Dave, and that anchors it is I

Dave Seymour (24:18)
Sure

Micah Johnson (24:28)
Appreciate people that have walked it and then help. Cause when you’re listening to those guys talk to you and they’re listening to you, I mean, you’re, you’re not just understanding from the outside. You know it from the dark underbelly. You understand it from the bottom up, which what that creates is the ability to have empathy, which is what our world desperately needs is. And someone that’s walked the road, you create space for people in ways no one else can do. And that’s what makes it so powerful.

Dave Seymour (24:49)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Micah Johnson (24:58)
Is for the first time you feel seen you as a person, you feel seen. No one’s looking at you as the biker gang guy. No one’s looking at, they’re looking past that and seeing. Hmm. Turcks me up too, man. That human, they’re just that it’s a real person back there y’all. it’s, it’s, there was an old, an old Harvard debate captain. used to open up every debate this way. And it really changed the way I thought he said, if we can all accept that we have far more in common than we do different right now.

Dave Seymour (25:02)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Micah Johnson (25:28)
this will all go much different. And he would just really mop the floor with his opponents because there’s no, like, if you will accept that, like, wait, we have way more in common than we do different. It adjusts how you discuss your differences. It’s not, it’s not a combative thing. It’s a under, we’re seeking understanding is to be, and that’s that heart that has to connect to others. Cause even though we’re all humans, I say it this way, we all come with the same ingredients, but not the same recipe. And

Dave Seymour (25:30)
Amen.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Micah Johnson (25:56)
We learn how to mix ours by working and being around people that learned how to mix theirs, right? I can’t do it for you. You can’t do it for me, but weirdly enough, we can help each other do it for ourselves. And that lines up with what you’re talking about. The two guys that discovered, Hey, no one could beat this, but we can beat this together because we understand. And I can talk to you when you’re in your hardest moment. You can talk to me in mind.

Dave Seymour (25:56)
For sure.

That’s it. Yeah.

Micah Johnson (26:23)
And that part you were talking about, this was pre-recording is that trust. When you’re in those situations, who you trust is very, very important because you don’t just trust anybody. You don’t just take anybody’s word at that point. If they haven’t walked it, their opinion matters very little. It’s like asking somebody how to do multifamily if they’ve never done it. Like their opinion doesn’t matter. Okay. That’s the reality. Cause that’s all it is. But man, when it’s that real.

Dave Seymour (26:41)
That’s right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s it. Yeah.

Micah Johnson (26:51)
Real living leads, and it’s the same way again, we learned real estate. I learned it from mentors, someone who walked the road, who showed me what to do that I could trust their opinion. That you take that, break it away anywhere and apply it to humans. And it’s how we, it’s how we’ve come to own the world. Literally it’s us being able to work together. So, man, I could go on and on about these kinds of things. These are some of my favorite conversations in real estate. Cause it is that impact that you’re making. It’s bigger than at all as someone who.

Dave Seymour (26:58)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, amen. Amen.

Is this? Is this?

Micah Johnson (27:21)
I was supposed to be dead six years ago based on my life experience. So someone who’s still alive, man, I love it. just, whoa, let’s go. Let’s let fucking go like get it done, man. So Dave, thanks for being with us today. Thanks for sharing that story for those that are listening and watching in that want to learn more about what you’re doing, understand that process and may have that heart to really connect with you. What’s the best way for them to reach out to you?

Dave Seymour (27:33)
I got you brother, I got you.

Yeah, there’s no like landing page and anonymity and hiding behind somebody answering the phone. I’m all transparency. So my personal email is the best way for folks who listen to this call get a hold of me. If it was a different conversation or a different call, they probably wouldn’t get the personal email. So you can find me at Dave Seymour, which is my name, at Gmail.

Dave Seymour live, sorry, [email protected] straight up old fashioned Gmail email. Shoot me a shoot me an email and say, Hey, I heard you on the show. Love to learn more. ask for help. You’ve got somebody that needs some love. I don’t care where you’re listening. We can find those resources cause I’m sick and tired. I was a firefighter and a paramedic for 16 years before my real estate career. So I saw enough overdoses and

DUIs and car wrecks and kids getting killed and hurt to last me a lifetime. I’m done with that. Stop hiding in the shadows. There’s no shame in this. There is a way out. And if I can be a vehicle to help anybody on that journey, then I’m here. And then on the business side of it, you’re not going to go anywhere else and get this kind of quality of return profile with as much heart attached to it. It just doesn’t exist because I’ve been looking for it for a long time.

Micah Johnson (29:10)
Right, man, I agree.

Dave Seymour (29:10)
Dave Seymour live

at Gmail.

Micah Johnson (29:13)
Thank you for sharing that. those that are listening and watching, check the show notes. Reach out. The same thing I say a lot on this show, reach out to professionals we bring on. There’s a reason they’re doing it. They’re living it. So whether you identified with this show, whichever way, if you have a struggle, if your family member, a friend, somebody has a struggle, reach out to Dave. That’s why his email’s there. If you want to learn more about the business side and this touched your heart, reach out to Dave. Just don’t.

The same thing that saves these guys going through these programs is reaching out. So do the same thing. Take that action. What did Jesus say? You have not because you ask not. Ask, reach out, touch base. So Dave, thanks again for being here, man. I appreciate you. I think we need more folks out there like yourself doing it the way you’re doing it. Thank you so much. Thank you everybody else.

Dave Seymour (30:02)
Much love, brother. Thank you.

Micah Johnson (30:04)
Absolutely. Thank you everybody else that joined us today. We appreciate you being there. If you got value out of today’s episode, please like this episode, share it with someone else that you think could get value out of it. And if you’re not a subscriber yet, you know what to do. Click that button, follow along with us here. We’ve got more conversations coming up with operators, just like Dave, folks out there building real businesses in the industry that actually make a difference. Thanks for being with us today. We’ll see you on the next episode.

Dave Seymour (30:14)
you