Chasing Dreams: Real Estate Adventure and Future Vision

Stephen Schmidt (00:03.302)
Welcome back to the show where we interview the nation’s leading real estate entrepreneurs It’s your host Stephen Schmidt and if you’re joining us for a second third or hundredth time welcome back as always You know, you’re gonna get some value from this and if you’re joining us for the first time Well, then you’re in for a real treat and I know this podcast is about to get added to your regular listening Docket I gotta find a better phrase for that I’ve been trying to figure that out for a while now But I need to come up with a better phrase how to smoothly say that but anyways, that’s not the point

Today I got Betsy Kline in the house. Betsy Kline is someone that has defied all odds, goes from college dropout, bartendant, everything else to an absolute phenom in the real estate world. She’s not even 40. She’s not even 30, but she’s been investing for the last six years, flipping, loves to do design, and is absolutely incredible in the real estate space, someone that you guys are going to get a lot of value from today.

Let’s welcome her. Just remember before we get started at Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers, and real estate entrepreneurs 2 to 5X their businesses in order to build the businesses they’ve always wanted so they can live the lives they’ve always dreamed of. With that being said, Betsy, welcome to the show.

Betsy Kline (01:19.054)
Thank you, I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Stephen Schmidt (01:22.824)
I’m glad you’re here. It’s always fun to be able to interview somebody else under 30. I know I look like I’m 75, but believe it or not, I haven’t hit that 30 mark yet myself. So it’s always fun to talk to somebody in the same age category that’s making big moves and doing big things, has big dreams. So I know we talked a little bit, actually a lot bit pre-show. Give us a little bit of your background. What got you started in the real estate space? How did it happen? And what’s got you to where you’re at today in your business?

Betsy Kline (01:51.726)
So I got into real estate because I saw a popular show on Netflix called Selling Sunset and it looked fabulous. The women were beautiful. They were going to lunch all day. They were rich and I was like, that’s perfect. That’s what I want to do. And so…

Stephen Schmidt (02:11.015)
Love that.

Betsy Kline (02:13.152)
I had, like you said, dropped out of college. had no clue what I was doing other than bartending. And when you’re making like, you know, hundreds and tips when you’re young, it seems like this is the way of life. Like I’ve already made it.

Stephen Schmidt (02:22.918)
It looks so much money for sure.

Betsy Kline (02:24.63)
Yeah, exactly. I’m like, actually already rich, so don’t even worry. But I didn’t know what I was gonna do with my life, and I promised my parents, like, don’t worry, I will do something great. And they’re like, hmm, this sounds pretty dangerous. You’re out partying until 4 a.m. Don’t know if that’s gonna work out. So I end up taking this real estate course, and I get into it, it reminds me of school, so immediately I’m like, this isn’t going well. Like, you’re not showing me how to open a door in heels.

I finish it, I end up passing the test and decide this is kind of my new path. So I worked with buyers and sellers up until about 2023 and in August of that year I purchased my first flip and fully transitioned into just doing flips.

Stephen Schmidt (03:15.957)
Wow, so you’ve been doing flips primarily for the last two years.

Betsy Kline (03:20.266)
Yes, yeah after I did my first flip I think I did like two real estate deals with other clients after that and I was like nope like it just took up time and I wasn’t as focused and if I’m gonna do something I want to give everyone my best so if I can’t do that I’m gonna pass it to someone else.

Stephen Schmidt (03:40.712)
What do you love about flipping that you didn’t like about retail?

Betsy Kline (03:44.27)
I have complete control of the project so when you’re working with buyers and sellers you’re kind of on their timeline. If they want to see 16 houses that’s what you’re doing. With flips I have control over what I’m doing.

Stephen Schmidt (03:59.048)
What about that do you appreciate?

Betsy Kline (04:08.125)
Betsy Kline (04:11.538)
I don’t like being on other people’s schedule at all. I like to do what I want when I want to do it, even if like, it’s not like I’m not super busy right now and I have appointments, but there are things that I’ve signed up for that I’m excited about that I want to do. And I have enough flexibility within that that, you know, if I want to spend an hour on this job site dreaming about the backyard, I can do that first.

If I’m showing someone five houses and their kids are in tow and all this like I can’t be like, hey I’m gonna go grab lunch for an hour like no we have a schedule we’re sticking to it and for some reason I don’t know if it’s because like ADHD or whatever. I just I dread days where I have like someone else’s schedule in there

Stephen Schmidt (04:56.562)
Why is having control of your time and your freedom so important to you?

Betsy Kline (05:02.254)
Honestly, it’s just the way that I feel. Like I feel so much better when I’m doing what I enjoy doing. It doesn’t feel like I work and I probably work way more now than I did when I was working with clients, but it’s enjoyable and I really enjoy the end product a ton.

Stephen Schmidt (05:24.626)
Yeah, I totally get that. I’m sort of unemployable at this point in my career. I come from a very similar background as you and I work a lot more now than when I was employed. But it’s like even just the factor of like you got to show up at 3pm to roll silverware before the shift starts. It’s like I don’t want anybody telling me I have to be there. Like I don’t mind if I’m there every day at 3pm. I just don’t want you to tell me I have to be there at 3pm.

Betsy Kline (05:32.494)
Totally.

Stephen Schmidt (05:54.482)
So.

Betsy Kline (05:54.742)
Yeah, no, I think that’s part of it too. Like if I have myself working until midnight out at a property, like I only did that to myself. You know what I mean? So it’s like, okay, like let’s make a better decision next time. Let’s start earlier, whatever it is. Or usually like what I do now is also a ton of passion. I love the design aspect behind the flips. So.

Every hard task is driven by that passion. I cannot wait to see the end result. So I’m like, okay, even though I hate dealing with the city and the water bills or whatever, this is part of getting me to the end goal.

Stephen Schmidt (06:27.826)
Yeah. So what’s like the long-term vision with what you’re doing?

Betsy Kline (06:35.21)
So much. So, my gosh, yeah, I can go forever about the vision, but.

Stephen Schmidt (06:38.022)
You’re not a visionary at all, are you?

Betsy Kline (06:45.632)
I definitely want to have commercial spaces. Right now, the flips that I buy, I design them and then I also stage them. And so as soon as that is purchased, the staging comes out unless the buyer purchases some of those items. So I think having like designs that are long term, like if I’m doing commercial designs, like that stays until I get bored of it and change it. But it would be cool to have a space that

features and that design stays versus right now, know, only some of it stays. Does that make sense? So that’s important to me. I also really want to grow my brand as a designer. I would like to be able to source lighting from overseas and sell that and grow that portion of my business. I’m experimenting right now with designing for people and

Stephen Schmidt (07:18.92)
Mmm.

Betsy Kline (07:41.922)
I think that’s an avenue that my business will grow in. I don’t think it’s where I will spend the most time personally just because again, it goes back to working with clients and you don’t have a hundred percent control over it. They don’t like the color that you like. They don’t see the same disco ball in the living room that I see. So it’s different than doing a project for myself, but I do see value in that because people come to me for design stuff. So I don’t want to dismiss that.

Stephen Schmidt (08:04.392)
Mm.

Betsy Kline (08:11.958)
opportunity I guess.

Stephen Schmidt (08:13.921)
Keep up. So if everything goes your way, what does life look like at 39? 29 now, what does life look like at 39 for you if everything went perfectly?

Betsy Kline (08:28.769)
I’m probably like barely working. Basically my calendar is empty and I’m only in house for like one meeting on a Wednesday and it’s with a really big local company or not local but like

like a pottery barn wants to partner with me because they’re like we need her designs she’s now creating the light fixtures or she’s you know it’s a collab so i want to be able to eventually collab with a a west elm pottery barn crate and barrel something like that where it’s like okay you’re now broadcasted everywhere

Stephen Schmidt (09:02.985)
Yeah, well, you’ve got the name for it. You definitely have that Joanna Gaines type name for something, but a little more high class than Target. Betsy Cline sounds like something I’d buy on a pillowcase somewhere. Sorry if that’s like the worst possible image I could put in people’s heads, but it’s like, it works. It sounds fancy. It sounds luxury. Demir, as the kids would say these days.

Betsy Kline (09:26.753)
Thanks.

I do love my name. Like any guy has passed the time for marrying me and taking my last name. Like it’s Betsy Kline now forever.

Stephen Schmidt (09:37.433)
I love it. Betsy Kline hyphen whatever your last name is, bro. Whatever that turns out to be.

Betsy Kline (09:42.796)
No, there’s no hyphen. He has the option to take my last name if he would like to. Only option. Yeah.

Stephen Schmidt (09:46.248)
I love it. I love it. That’s hilarious. So when you got started, you’re obviously not very risk adverse at all. Like you’re someone that’s going to just jump full tilt, full into it. When you realized you could control your time more with flips, what was your first deal like? Tell us a little bit about that.

Betsy Kline (10:13.738)
I spent a lot of time going down and checking on the project mainly to make sure like all of the decisions were being executed properly and I was excited. I was really excited. So like I wanted to see how quickly things were getting done. The first flip I did we finished in literally 30 days. It was insane. It was a $40,000 renovation.

Betsy Kline (10:40.172)
I’m trying to think more about it. It was great. It was the most exciting thing ever. I was, I’ve never seen construction happen that fast. I did do a renovation at one point, but it was on my own house. It was much slower.

Stephen Schmidt (10:53.608)
Okay.

Betsy Kline (10:56.438)
So this was just like the most exciting thing in the world. I mean, even just like the beginning steps of like we ripped everything off the walls, the curtains are down, like the lights pouring in, like every single step of it was so exciting. And this was like as I was transitioning out of real estate. So I was still working with buyers and sellers, like I said, which didn’t last long. I was like wearing heels. I was like dressing up.

I don’t, you won’t catch me in heels. Like I will wear cowboy boots, that’s it. Like now I’m like a full on construction worker baby.

Stephen Schmidt (11:32.36)
That’s awesome. So it’s coming into fully like who you are too. think like that’s what’s amazing to see is you’re able to blossom into everything you want to be and not hold back on that. You don’t have to put on a pretty face for anybody or put on some sort of facade of like who you are. You’re to be exactly who you want to be every single day. I think that’s a big factor of it too. And what I see. So let me ask you this. What are some of the mistakes that you see people

making when they get into flipping that you avoided or maybe some that you made yourself that they could otherwise.

Betsy Kline (12:08.686)
So I think the biggest thing, like I have a lot of people and I think honestly, I think people relate with who I was. I haven’t always been successful. I’ve been to rehab. I’ve had different times in my life that weren’t where I am today. And so I think people think like if Betsy Kline can do this, like maybe I can do this. And they’re totally right. Like they can. But what I see that

struggle with is people come to me for advice and I can’t pass on the risk tolerance that I have and that’s where people they don’t even get started like they go see the house and then they find the reason that this could be wrong and that could be wrong and they find this and that and they’re worried about this and it’s like The risk is like one of the reasons that we get rewarded like that is so I think the biggest thing for me is just That is part of it. Like you can come up with a thousand reasons.

Stephen Schmidt (12:53.36)
you

Betsy Kline (13:05.23)
The first project that I bought, called my dad and I was so excited. I was like, I’m gonna do a flip, blah, blah, and he was like, nobody makes money doing that. Like, you’re not gonna make money doing that. He’s actually a partner in my business now. He does the financials for me and we’re doing very well. And so, like, every time I come up with a new idea, I remind him of that. I’m like, this is what you said to me before I started.

He was worried about like, what if we have another COVID? Like, what if every, I mean, those things could happen, but I’m never gonna fail. Like, I would pivot. Like, I’ll do something else. Like, we will figure it out. I’m not gonna live and do stuff where I worry about the worst case scenario. So I think just having like the risk to start is like the biggest thing.

Stephen Schmidt (13:45.288)
That’s really good. Very, good. So what’s like the goal number of properties that you have to do every year, or is it more of like goal projects in terms of how you want them to turn out? Like would you rather do

Three projects a year that are just like absolutely perfect that you will love because it’s it’s you or would you rather do you know 1520 that are really really good but takes more time like how much of the involvement with design do you want to be involved in and how does that how does that pan out for you?

Betsy Kline (14:27.576)
So I always think more is better. That is not necessarily true in life, but it’s just how I always believe. So I always want to grow it because I’m like, I should be able to handle more like I need to be able to handle more. So I do enjoy the thought of scaling it and I’ve been able to scale it quickly.

For this year, my goal is 28 houses. I think I’ll be very lucky to get to 20. So in 2023, I started in August, I finished the first one closed out, I think early November. So that was one. 2024, I believe, honestly, I think I only did six that I fully closed. And I’m always shocked by that, because I’m like, God, I feel like we did a lot last year, but we really didn’t.

Stephen Schmidt (14:55.88)
you

Betsy Kline (15:16.278)
I don’t know where I’m at with this year. It should have looked at that before. But anyway, I’d be very happy to get to 20. And cash flow is part of that too. It’s not just, you know, managing time and growing that aspect, but also like having the cash to do it. It’s a lot. no.

Stephen Schmidt (15:30.908)
Do you use all your own money or do you get involved in private money, hard money like?

Betsy Kline (15:36.278)
Yeah, so I started with a hard money lender. I still work with them They are my most expensive cash I have now i’m growing at all private investors because It’s still expensive interest rate wise, but points are just what screws you So And I don’t I don’t I shouldn’t say that I should not say screws me because in the beginning I had a mindset that I didn’t care what someone else was making as long as I was making what I wanted

Stephen Schmidt (15:53.832)
Interesting.

Betsy Kline (16:05.462)
And that’s true. But as I grow, I look for ways that I can save money and funding is one of them. So if you’re paying points or if you’re using hard money, don’t be discouraged. I never looked at it as, I’m upset this person’s making 20K as long as I was making, you know, the money that I wanted to make. So it’s how I got into it. There was no requirements. I mean, they had certain numbers, but as far as who you are, it didn’t matter what you made, your credit score, anything like that.

Stephen Schmidt (16:11.804)
Right.

Stephen Schmidt (16:22.992)
Sure.

Stephen Schmidt (16:35.154)
Yeah, because what you’re talking about at scale is more of a business acumen piece than even really a real estate portion. it’s like at scale, if somebody is making, depending on the point structure, that 1%, 2 % difference could be the difference in your own business of potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. So.

Betsy Kline (16:59.278)
That’s a point.

Stephen Schmidt (16:59.496)
That’s something that at scale, it’s like, you know, for the average person that’s going to work, making 60 grand a year, 80 grand a year, if you’re going to go do a property and you’re going to come out of it and make 30, 40, 50, $100,000, you’re probably not worried about it. But for a real real estate operator that’s trying to do 50 properties a year, 100 properties a year, then like that makes a significant difference in the bottom line for sure. So you talked about.

private investors, what are you setting up a fund? What are you doing there? Tell us more about that.

Betsy Kline (17:30.702)
So, anyone I know basically, how did I start?

How do I even start with this? I think just anyone, think, oh, I advertise for it on social media. I was like, if you’re interested, like you can work with me. And then like I got, I don’t know, eight to 10 replies and I was like, oh my God, we’re going to Vegas. This is amazing. And so I set up an email. I was like, this is what I do. I set out, you know, links to some projects. And then as soon as I had the next deal, I was like, all right, before I go to my lenders, I had the security of knowing my hard money lenders would lend to me. So I was able to put the project under contract.

And I went to every investor that replied to my social media and said hey, here’s what I’m offering on this. Are you interested? And I had actually now that I remember done it a couple times before that I had a friend with some money and I had another person, know, just people I knew and I learned a lot because I Wasn’t realizing like if you say 10 %

I was just giving 10%, whether it was three months or whether it was, you know, six months. And really 10 % APR is over 12 months. So I was paying too much in the first two deals. Like my broker was like, Betsy, shit, like I’ll, I’ll lend to you. And I’m like, wow. Yeah. I didn’t know what I was doing. But again, it went back to like,

I was making the numbers I wanted to make and so I was like, well, I feel like they earned their, did, I paid someone 5,000, they lent me 20,000. I don’t do that anymore. I got a lot smarter with that and so now I have minimums, I won’t, 25,000 is the minimum. I have a couple doctors that I know that are investing with me and so I just, yeah, I just grew it like that. We have a simple one page contract and it’s basically off.

Betsy Kline (19:25.302)
They know me, they trust me, they see my stuff online.

Stephen Schmidt (19:29.114)
What are some of the challenges that you faced outside of just like the financing piece? What are some of the challenges that you faced and maybe you’re facing now that you’re still working on figuring?

Betsy Kline (19:38.542)
hardest thing right now is I am GCing two projects and I want to actually rip my hair out. Like it is the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I have a new build. I’ve never done a new build. That GC ended up going to jail so I took over the project. Yeah, exactly. I’m like, cool bro. A warning would have been great. That one I was excited about.

Stephen Schmidt (19:56.712)
sick.

Stephen Schmidt (20:01.563)
Alright.

Betsy Kline (20:04.734)
Not excited, but I felt confident in because I was like, okay, it’s a new build. It’s getting inspected So no one can really you know, take advantage. I’m not gonna miss anything, you know, I want to make sure i’m delivering a good product So it’s getting inspected every step of the way. So that’s great That one’s going decently. I’m like learning a ton about permits. And how long they take the renovation that I also decided to sub out I

It is not for me. It is not for me. I just there’s a lot of little things that my OG GC includes that I didn’t think about that are just adding up and like I’ll get quotes on things, but I won’t know like I just got closets framed in well, he didn’t include the doors and I’m thinking like Why would I want a closet without doors? But then also you have to remember that’s not part of framing. So it’s like

knowledge that I don’t have and then I feel like I’m being taken advantage of and I’m not. It’s just, it’s very frustrating, but I know I’m learning a lot.

Stephen Schmidt (20:59.816)
What have you done to shorten your learning curve in the last two years? Are involved with any courses that you’ve taken other than like the one real estate course? you like circle mastermind groups? What are some of the ways that you try to put yourself out there more?

Betsy Kline (21:25.228)
So we have local investor meetups. I’m actually pretty bad at going to them, but every single time I go, I always walk away with so much knowledge. And then also, I…

I’ll host either open houses where I’ll make it a big deal or I’m doing an investor meetup. I did a supper club. So I’ll host things where then people are like, I’ve been following you online, here I am in person. And those people are sometimes people that will end up lending to me or I’ll learn something from. I’ve never gone to an investor meetup and not learned.

something amazing that I’m like, wow, I didn’t even know that existed or just connected with someone who I needed the knowledge that they have.

Stephen Schmidt (22:11.312)
So if you could go back to when you got started, but you could take all the knowledge that you’ve gained, what would you do different and what would you do the same?

Betsy Kline (22:22.83)
So

Stephen Schmidt (22:33.626)
And what would you do this time?

Betsy Kline (22:35.572)
Yeah, what I would do the same is from the beginning I wasn’t afraid to put color on cabinets to add wallpaper and I was told by everyone go simple, go as simple as you can generic. I believe and I want to change the belief of everyone else in this that if you’re creating a house for everyone you’re creating a house for no one and so

put the details in, like make it fun because then you’re gonna actually have a raving fan out of the house. Like they are going to be so obsessed with it, they’re gonna feel like you literally created it for them. And at the end of the day, you only need one buyer anyway. that’s something I wouldn’t change. Something I would change, maybe tracking everything in the beginning.

because I was not, I just was basically doing what I needed to do to get it done. And now I track every single purchase, like even if we get lunch or whatever it is, because that technically comes out of your profit.

Stephen Schmidt (23:43.996)
Yeah, for sure. That’s really good. You know, to your point there as well, I had another gal that I interviewed a. You.

We few months ago actually and she actually took her.

business to where she did not make less than six figures on a flip by just implementing unique design to your point. Right. And same thing. Everybody told her, don’t do that. You you got to be as cookie cutter as possible. Like it’s got to be basic. And she completely proved it wrong. And in the last seven years, she has not made less than a hundred grand on every single flip in profit on every single flip because of it, which is

incredible to think about. And I’m sure you probably witnessed that for yourself. You don’t have to tell us your numbers, of course, but I’m sure that it differentiates you as someone in your market. Now, do you only do this in Richmond? This is where you’re located, correct?

Betsy Kline (24:47.66)
Yeah, so I’m located in Richmond. I will go up to an hour out from my house if I’m desperate. When I started, I was like anything within an hour. I will say now I’m probably more limited to like 30 minutes just because of time constraints. And I’ve had that luxury. People have brought me deals that are great and I don’t want to go further if I don’t have to because of time, obviously.

Stephen Schmidt (25:17.192)
Yeah, 100%. Well, Betsy, where can people connect with you for more if they want to learn more about you or what you’re working on? Where can they go for that?

Betsy Kline (25:27.678)
The Best Places Instagram it’s at Betsey B-E-T-S-Y K-L-I-N-E underscore Betsey Kline Realty Design. R-E-A-L-T-Y-D-E-S-I-G-N Betsey Kline Realty Design. That’s the best spot.

Stephen Schmidt (25:46.648)
There you go folks will go connect with her for more and we will be on the next step. So thanks for joining. Thanks for listening. Hope you got as much value out of today as I did and thank you Betsy for being here.

Betsy Kline (25:58.232)
Thank you.