Buy the Real Estate Crash: How to Find Multifamily and Senior Housing Opportunities

Debora Randall (00:00)
from lenders, foreclosures, auctions, where, you know, lenders are just trying to get, you know, the 10 million loan, you know, you know, what they they’re owed, well, what the property was purchased for 16 million, you know, three years ago, or valued at twenty-four million, right? So there is huge opportunity there. And so it’s again being ready to pivot.

when the opportunities rise.

Issa Hanna (02:00)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros Show. I’m your host, Issa Hanna, and today I have Debora Randall with Beyond Bounds Properties here to share her story and her knowledge with us. Debora, welcome to the show.

Debora Randall (02:10)
Thanks, Issa. I’m excited to be here.

Issa Hanna (02:13)
I’m super excited to have you. you’re in a bunch of different unique aspects of real estate. So I’m definitely excited to pick your brain about it. for people at home though, can you just kind of run down what you’re doing day to day, where your operations are right now?

Debora Randall (02:29)
So I am I’m actually based in Vancouver, Canada, but I have some investments in Canada, but mostly focused in investing in the US. Multifamily and senior housing are my two areas. We do target the Southeast, but we are opportunistic and we’ll look kind of in other states as well.

Issa Hanna (02:51)
And we were talking earlier and you mentioned you’re a Canadian. You mentioned the US is a great investment market, sometimes better than Canada. But then you also mentioned the pitfalls of being Canadian, a non-US resident, and having to invest in the United States. So if you can, could you please explain why investing in the USA is better sometimes, and then also some of the pitfalls of being Canadian or you know, some of the hardships of being Canadian.

And investing down here in the States.

Debora Randall (03:22)
Yeah, so when I first started getting into real estate, I analyzed ever I wanted to do multifamily. I knew that. And I analyzed every mar I’m a bit of a nerd that way and I like spreadsheets and I like to analyze markets. So I analyzed every market in Canada and the numbers often don’t work. Like in my city in Vancouver, right, you don’t buy an apartment building here and wait for it to cash flow. In fact, you know

New builds here in Vancouver are built and have to be sold off as condos because the numbers don’t work for rental housing. So I think there’s been no like rental purpose-built rental housing in the last 30 years in this city, which has become a huge problem, right? And so often the numbers don’t work. So I started looking at other markets across Canada. And there are a couple markets that work, but when I

saw the opportunities in the States, it’s like there’s just many more markets and it’s just a very different opportunities. So I was like, well, I’m not gonna stop investing in Canada in the ways that work and the markets that work, but I want to open myself to US investment as well. But you know, it’s not always easy. How do you kind of break in? How do you come in here and you know there’s tax implications, there’s

other implications. So what I did is I joined a network of real estate professionals in the multifamily space. It’s actually a group based out of Florida. And that’s how I started kind of learning, connecting in with other mostly Americans or Canadians or other people in the group as well, but actually started partnering with American investors as well. And so there’s groups of us that actually will invest in these assets. so that’s how I managed to

do that.

Issa Hanna (06:00)
How cool is that? And one thing that stuck out earlier in our conversation, and I believe in the exact same philosophy, is when you’re putting the numbers together, estimating the worst case scenario. why is that important?

Debora Randall (06:13)
Well, so I’m my background, I’m an agricultural economist and so I’m used to and I’ve actually had a career living and working in Africa, investing in businesses in some of the most challenging markets or economies you can imagine. And so you have to be very realistic when you’re investing in businesses and working to grow businesses. Does this business model

really make sense. Because if it doesn’t, obviously you lose money. And, you know, like I like to say, in, you know, when COVID hit a number of years ago, there was no one in Africa bailing out businesses. And so there’s this, you know, an adage that I use, adapt or die. Businesses adapt or die in these economies, right? So you don’t want to die, right? So you’ve got to constantly be adapting, constantly be clear on what

actually the reality is getting get you’re getting yourself into. So I’m a real proponent on you know evidence-based underwriting. So numbers, what are all the assumptions around numbers? I mean you know as well as I do on a spreadsheet you can tweak a couple of levers and then whoa, this deal makes great sense. We’re gonna make a ton of money, but those levers, what are you basing those on? Those assumptions you can’t just

exit cap rate. Let’s just put this exit cap rate at like three and a half percent or four percent. Wow, look at the IRR we’re making here. But that’s not realistic. So you can’t assumptions. You gotta have data-based assumptions, right? And then if you aren’t certain, you are conservative on your assumptions, right? So exit cap rate, rent increases, right? Things like that, expenses. You gotta be

much more conservative. So I’m just a real believer in that. And then if the deal then doesn’t make sense, you either walk into that, okay, investors, we’ve got a lower IRR on this and this is why, or you walk, right? And there’s a number of times where, you know, you know, when you underwrite like that, you are walking and you’re and I’ve asked myself, how are people offering millions more for these properties? Right. Then

It is not I’m like, there is this thing is worth seven point five million. There’s I’m not going a dollar above that. People are offering eight and a half, nine million for it. It’s like, well, you just gotta walk, basically. And so be disciplined in that. You just had to be disciplined.

Issa Hanna (08:47)
Yeah, definitely. Don’t count the eggs before they’re hatched and don’t, you know, always, always estimate low. That way if you get a surprise, it’s a good surprise, not a bad surprise. We don’t like bad surprises in real estate investing. So great piece of advice. so Debora, how’d you get started in all this? You know, how how’d young Debora get bit by the bug?

Debora Randall (09:46)
Well, you know, it’s interesting because I’ve always wanted it’s that whole you know, cash flow quadrant, right? You know, *Rich Dad Poor Dad*. You know, I’ve always, you know, you trade your time for money, whether you’re a job or you or a consultant. So even in the work that I did, I was, you know, I have my own business based out of Kenya, working kind of in these economies, but I was still trading time for money, right? And you get to a point where you’re like, I need to be on the other side.

Right, I need to have money work for me. So what do I need to do for that? And so that’s kind of where it came up. And I don’t know, there’s just something about real estate that I always wanted to kind of get in and do because of that. But I don’t know, there’s just something about it. Rather than investing, let’s say, as a LP and a, you know, you know, you’ve got all sorts of things you can invest in, whether it’s a stock market or, you know, as an angel investor, but that just didn’t quite

do it for me. I just love the idea of real estate investment. But I also I don’t know, I love the I love the so one of the things that I did in Africa that really kind of got me excited is I have this thing where, I believe that profit and purpose can coexist together, right? That, you know, one of the things that we did when we invest in businesses

in these emerging economies, it’s to benefit people. So you know that old dodge of, you know, don’t give a man a fish, teach a man a fish. Well, this man is fishing or this woman is fishing. And if they don’t have a business that they can go to buy a rod or a lure, right? Or bait to catch that fish, they’re not going to be able to fish, even if they have the knowledge for it. If they bought

you know, catch a whole bunch of fish and they have no one to sell that fish to so that they can’t make money so they can actually pay for their children’s school fees, that’s not working for them. So you actually, you know, businesses need to come around communities to actually benefit communities. That’s the purpose part. But profit and purpose doesn’t have they can coexist together. So I love the concept of apartments, housing, senior housing is another

area I’m very passionate about because you’ve got that profit, but you’re also providing quality homes for people or beautiful places for seniors to live as, you know, they end their lives. So, you know, I love that element. So there’s something in that that always kind of drove me as well, that profit and purpose thing.

Issa Hanna (12:26)
Definitely and in real estate, you can do that because they’re your properties, so you make them nice. it’s your vision. So and what a great answer. I mean, profit and purpose. You know, we’re all in it to make money, but we can be good people while we make money. And with that, you have one of the or you are the one of the only people that I’ve ever talked to that’s invested in Africa. So

I’d like to hear and then you said it’s a do or die economy over there, right? There’s no bailouts. So give me one time over there where you may have had to pivot when something went sideways and then how you pivoted.

Debora Randall (13:09)
well, yeah, kind of constant pivoting, right? I’m just trying to think of one example. I mean, I was working in Eastern DRC up in the north, right? Actually now we’re we’ve got like Ebola issues there, right? But it’s an area in Beni where you get there’s a lot of conflict, but

Up there, there’s beautiful land, there’s amazing resources, right? There’s a lot of cocoa being grown up there, right? So there was a company. So we were trying to get the cocoa through to these private sector companies so that it actually could get out into the market and then benefit the people because you got farmers getting good prices for their cocoa. So that’s the profit purpose play right there, right? But what do you do when there’s all this conflict?

right you’ve got people not able to you know ship their cocoa from the conflict areas into you know the main sort of cities so it’s about how do you do that and so what do you do you create you know you work through local guys you know everyone people are adaptable it’s incredible right so I might not be able to have the answer but someone on the ground is gonna have the answer and figure that out

Right. So you work and get on the ground and you find out who are the people who know how to maneuver around that environment. So there’s a really good example of pivoting. it’s little it doesn’t have to be these big things. It’s knowing what works on the ground and then actually maybe tweaking something that’s sort of working but in your favor. So that that’s an example. But

You know, we’ve got drought. Drought is another one, right? Like we talk a lot about climate change. What is that doing? In northern Uganda, I’ve worked there for the last ten years. And, you know, ten years ago, we would talk to people about climate change and people would scoff at us. Farmers would laugh at us and say, That’s your north that’s your kind of words from the West. We don’t even know what you’re talking about, right? Five years later, they’re like,

The rains aren’t coming. Like we saw the difference. It was incredible from like year one to year five and the change, drought, rain’s not coming regularly. What do you do? You got a pivot. So what did we do? We we invested in drought tolerant seeds. We looked at crops that were shorter growing. So you could kind of you know plant and then harvest before in that shorter season, you know. So constantly thinking, adapting, changing based on the conditions.

And you can’t do it in a way where you’re sitting there for years trying to figure it out. You’ve got to move, right? And that’s and then those who pivot fast first can create that advantage, right? You know, that’s why they say sort of smaller companies, you know, steering turning a smaller ship versus a bigger ship is, you know, you’ve got an advantage as a as an entrepreneur as a smaller business.

Issa Hanna (15:59)
Time is money.

Debora Randall (16:58)
We also saw that. We saw these smaller businesses able to kind of really get in, you know, grab market share because they were able to pivot quickly and we would get behind them. And then they would become the leaders in their sector and influence the bigger players, right? So yeah. So that that’s sort of what I mean, adapt or die. You gotta adapt. You gotta be nimble and quick. And in our economies too, I mean, absolutely, right? You know, entrepreneur.

Being entrepreneurial, seeing the opportunities, moving quickly to them. If something’s not working, you don’t sit and have meeting after meeting after meeting about it. You go in, find the problem, and you switch it. You change it, right? And I’m a real big believer in finding problems before they become big problems. Like solving little problems is much easier than solving big problems if you’ve left it. You know, it starts here, then it starts being

big, so try to grab it here before it becomes a big problem.

Issa Hanna (18:02)
Definitely. I always say real estate investors were experts at putting out fires before they start. So and it goes right into pivoting. And another thing that stuck out with me is you’ve got a lot of partners. You’re good at building a team of partners where you guys all make money. And you said it’s because you know what you’re good at, but you also know what you’re not good at. So in a partner, you search for people that may be better than you.

or are stronger in in one suit. That way you guys are like peanut butter and jelly. Can you shed some more light on that?

Debora Randall (18:36)
Yeah. So, you know, I so when I joined this real estate group, you know, you end up kind of connecting with people who are kind of like you or like minded, right? But then you’re like, wait a minute, I don’t need someone like me to work with me. I already have me to work with, right? And so you have to be really strategic about what your own strengths are and bring in people who ha can complement you in your own weaknesses, right? And

You know, I can still hang out with someone who is like me, but I don’t have to do business with them, if that makes sense, right? So, you know, my particular strengths, I like the underwriting, I like the finding the deals, taking it over the line, but I’m not my I’m not a CPA. I wouldn’t want to look over a spreadsheet line by line and report on that. That’s just that would to me would suck.

the life force out of me, right? And so there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just that’s not how I’m built. So finding other people who like that. You know, there’s some people who love doing that, right? So let’s bring them on the team because I need someone who can do that and tell me there’s an issue here or we need to focus on this. Right. So that’s a really good example. so partnering with people like that who are your complements, not necessarily people you love working with.

Right. If that makes sense. So you wanna you wanna like working with them, you know what I mean? But like some but you’re naturally the way they think or the way they do things might not be the way you do things. So there can be some irritation sometimes. do we have to go through this again? this guy’s driving me crazy. He wants to look at the numbers again, but actually that’s good, right? Because that helps balance it out.

Issa Hanna (20:29)
Definitely like the yin and the yang as they say, right? man, we’re getting such great advice, great knowledge from you, Debora. how about the future? Five years down the line, where are we gonna see you at?

Debora Randall (20:42)
So I’m I believe that so I got into senior housing. So this is sort of something we haven’t talked about yet, because you know, as the par the multifamily world kind of was kind of crashing. So I got was it twenty two, twenty three, I got down into the States, got into this group and I was like, great, let’s underwrite, let’s look at these deals. nothing was penciling, right? So

We put in offers, we were much too low because we didn’t we couldn’t go higher. We’re like it just the numbers don’t support that. So then started looking at senior housing. So the number, you know, senior housing has also crashed from COVID, but it’s now on the upswing. So like in in 20 the difference between 2024 and 2025, there was a 43% increase in price, like to purchase. So, you know, the recovery is real. So it’s hit its bottom and up.

So I believe kind of over the next two to three years, there’s a huge opportunity in the senior housing space. But again, once it gets back up here, the numbers might not work as well. Right. So at the same time, we’re looking at apartment buildings. So apartments are, we know, are crashing. I think Texas, where you are, is like really struggling, right? So this is a great opportunity to buy. And we’re really starting to see stuff where

you know, from lenders, foreclosures, auctions, where, you know, lenders are just trying to get, you know, the 10 million loan, you know, you know, what they they’re owed, well, what the property was purchased for 16 million, you know, three years ago, or valued at twenty-four million, right? So there is huge opportunity there. And so it’s again being ready to pivot.

when the opportunities rise.

So sort of in the so I think for me in the next five years it’ll be we’ll be continuing to maybe shift away from senior housing. Like senior housing might be the next two or three years, but at the same time be purchasing apartment buildings as the as the rise kind of starts up. So that’s so that’s the goal is, you know, just owning beautiful buildings.

Probably more the B class, that middle market is where we’re sitting. we feel like that is a really great market to stay in for both multifamily and senior housing and you know, just operating well, you know, having good people around us and then just keep slow and I’m a real slow but certain. You don’t wanna grow too fast, you wanna grow kind of certain, sure footedly.

Right, because that’s the other thing I’ve seen a lot of, you know, companies grow too fast and then it all crumbles down. So it’s kind of that slow and steady wins the race.

Issa Hanna (23:39)
Definitely. You don’t want to bite off more than you can chew. And it also ties back into your whole philosophy of profit and purpose. So you know, senior housing, how rewarding of a field. and one thing that stuck out in your answer, which you just said, is I wanna make beautiful housing. You know, it’s not I wanna make housing that makes me money. It’s you said beautiful housing, just like I said, profit and purpose. So I wanna commend you on that, definitely.

And with that, you are so unique because you’ve come from Canada, you’ve gone to Africa, you’re worldwide with it, right? But you’ve been able to build networks and connections in in different continents and all around the world. for those young investors just starting out, maybe getting some inspiration from you, what advice would you have for them on how to build these networks and foster their relationships?

Debora Randall (24:35)
So I’m like old school in the sense that I do much better with face to face. So like I think there’s lots of value in kind of online communities and you know, the network that I’m involved with has regular networking events, but there is nothing that beats a face to face. So I like to do three or four conferences a year.

Right, where I’m meeting people and you know, when you’re in a network too, you can to be able to go back and see the same people, you know, let’s say twice a year or three times a year on a weekend is such a great way of really deeply building relationships with people, right? So I love that. And so I would say get out and connect with as many of those it even can be local networking events, right? But do face to face with people and also

You know, the name of my company is Beyond Bounds. It’s about so not only, you know, I mean, that was sort of a name because we were going beyond the bounds of kind of Canada, right? Africa, the States, but also beyond our own kind of limitations in our mind, right? We are all brought up. We have we we’ve been given lots of great things, but we’ve also been given kind of

We hold or we’ve learned limitations in our mind. I can’t do that. Or this will never work for me. Or, you know, maybe that works for so-and-so, but I could never do that. And that’s sort of what we need to break out of, break those interior bounds of that hold us back from living the life that we truly want, right? And so

when you go and you meet other people face to face and you see what they’ve done, you’re like, okay. And you talk to them and you find out they’re just normal people and you know, people are so kind, right? And some of the you know, when you meet them face to face and you ask them, how did you do that? well, you know what? It’s actually not that hard. I did this and this and this and this, and you’re like, wow, yeah, you’re right. It’s actually not that difficult, right? And so we think things are more difficult than they are. So getting

connecting with people, learning from people. And I’ve also found like people are so generous. Like if you like, hey, you know, John, do you mind if I jump on a call with you and just learn, you know, ask you a few questions on what you’ve done? Like 99% of the time people are like, absolutely, I would love to do that. Right. And so it’s connecting with people, but also understanding and opening our minds.

to those possibilities. So we remove the limitations that we have on what we can do. so to me, that’s about real connection with people, you know, events. But also, you know, they talk about, you know, you go to a conference, what happens? Most people come home and don’t do anything. You got that’s where the discipline comes in, right? So you see it, you learn something, and then you’ve got to put it into practice every day.

do something to move it forward, right? Something. Right. You keep going. You keep motivating yourself. Right. So, so it’s about being inspired, but then doing the hard work to keep that going. So that that would be my big advice for people starting out for sure.

Issa Hanna (27:58)
Such great advice. you know, network with people, put your face to face, you know, let people know who you are, bring value to these people, and be really, really nice. And I’m telling you that nobody gatekeeps at these events. So if you ask questions, they will answer. Don’t be intimidated because you don’t have a hundred rentals. Usually the guy with a thousand properties is the nicest guy in the room and most willing to share his knowledge. So

Wow, Debora, this is just some great advice you’re giving us. super excited for the viewers watching this right now, just because it’s not every day we get such a unique, cultured investor who’s been able to put together so many pieces. and with that, if people wanted to get a hold of you, if they, you know, they wanted to ask you a question, I’m sure you would answer, or maybe network with you, what’s the best way they could reach you?

Debora Randall (28:52)
Well, so my website is just remember beyondboundsproperties.com and then you just my email is [email protected]. So you either can go to the website, click on and you know, you’ll see my email there, or you can just email me.

At Debora. Now my name is spelt D E B O R A. I don’t know why it’s like that. I had nothing to do with that, but it can be confusing. People are like, there should be an H at the end of it. No, there’s no H at the end of it. It’s [email protected]. But I yeah, reach out to me. I’d love to share more and encourage, right? this is a people business, right? And you know, you gotta love people.

I love people, I love connecting with people. And, you know, let’s you know, we make the world a better place every day by sharing knowledge and connecting with each other, right? So

Issa Hanna (29:51)
Definitely. Well, make sure you check out Debora with a you guys, beyondboundsproperties.com. she is doing big things and one of the most knowledgeable people I’ve talked to on the show in recent times. Debora, thank you so much for coming on. it was a true honor to have you on the show today.

Debora Randall (30:11)
Thank you, Issa. I really appreciated it.

Issa Hanna (30:13)
Thank you. I enjoyed talking to you and to our viewers. If you enjoyed my conversation with Debora and want to see more just like this, make sure to hit like and subscribe. I talk to people every day that could bring us different knowledge on every aspect of the industry we all know and love. Until next time, the Real Estate Pros are out.