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Show Summary
In this episode of the Investor Fuel podcast, host Michelle Kesil speaks with Matt the Mortgage Guy, an independent mortgage broker with over 12 years of experience. They discuss the importance of personal connections in the mortgage industry, the role of technology in educating clients, and various strategies for real estate investing. Matt emphasizes the significance of understanding the mortgage landscape and the value of slow and steady investment strategies. He also shares insights on leveraging AI to enhance client interactions and provide personalized advice.
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Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
Matt The Mortgage Guy (00:00)
We live in a fast-movingSociety where a seven second tick-tock or a 15 second Instagram reel can get you like Excited and probably provide a lot of false. Hope so so the number one misconception I’ll say is that real estate is get rich quick most all strategies in real estate
You sure there’s some wholesaling stuff and so there’s different things where you can make capital and you might flip a house and make $200,000 but the vast majority of people I know in real estate who have accumulated vast amounts of wealth
They did it slow and steady and it’s just it’s not as sexy I admit but it’s a sure thing and I I would I would much rather have a sure thing than you you know bet on a meme coin or try to get rich quick some other way and You know your investment goes to zero because in real estate Like it’s if done the right way. It’s really hard to ever have some you know You’re never gonna buy a house for 400 grand. That’s worth zero someday, right? Like it doesn’t go to zero.
Michelle Kesil (02:32)
everyone, welcome to the Investor Fuel podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Kesil Today I’m joined by someone I’ve been looking forward to chatting with, Matt the mortgage guy, who’s been making serious moves in the mortgage space. So glad to have you here on the show today, Matt.Matt The Mortgage Guy (02:48)
My pleasure. love talking about ⁓ all things mortgage all things investing. So pleasure is all mine.Michelle Kesil (02:54)
Awesome. Yeah, I think the listeners are going to take something away from how you’re helping investors understand mortgages better and yeah, have a better scope of how things work in that realm. So let’s dive in. Awesome. So first off, for those who are not familiar with you and what you do, can you give people a short version of what your main focus is?Matt The Mortgage Guy (03:06)
Let’s do it.Sure. I’m an independent mortgage broker. I’ve been ⁓ doing home loans for the last 12 years. So people, you know, that don’t understand the different types of mortgages, I do residential mortgage. Someone’s buying a house they’re going to live in or they’re buying a house or a duplex, triplex, fourplex. That’s going to be investment property. That’s the space I play in, know, office space and apartment buildings. Commercial stuff is is for commercial lenders. I’m a residential broker.
I’ve been doing that for 12 years. I’ve been creating content on YouTube for almost as long. I was looking at, yesterday, since 2014, educational videos over there to empower people to make good decisions when it comes to mortgage finance.
Michelle Kesil (03:54)
and what markets do you operate in? you nationwide?Matt The Mortgage Guy (03:57)
I am nationwide, know, technically 48 states, know, so there’s a couple that make it extremely difficult. I’ll refer you to a great referral partner in Massachusetts or New York, but the other 48 states proudly serve and ⁓ it’s really fun for me as a California kid who grew my mortgage business in California. I love California. I love California loans.But it’s cool to get an interesting perspective on what’s going on in Texas and Florida and Tennessee and the other states and so serving people all over the country
Michelle Kesil (04:29)
Awesome. Yeah, so kind of like what’s the key to keeping this business running smoothly? What are some things that you focusMatt The Mortgage Guy (05:27)
You know, mortgage is a people business. And I think that, you know, even though we’ve got crazy amount of tech and, you know, I’ve got some cool tech stories for you later in the podcast. Even though we’ve got a massive amount of tech and there’s a ton of things in mortgage, like every mortgage company on the wholesale side has become like a mini tech company and they’ve all got different tech for making the process more streamlined, for making mortgage brokers more effective.But at the end of the day, the clients that work with us are clients that feel some sort of personal connection. They’ve seen videos, they’ve learned something on YouTube, they’ve reached out, they’ve, you know, talked to a team member who’s made them feel like, I’m not in this alone. Someone’s going to hold my hand through this home buying process. And same goes for referral partners, you know, a real estate agent isn’t necessarily going to refer an AI bot.
or somebody who’s sitting in a call center and just, you know, I can take a mortgage application, I can get this done. They’re referring somebody they like and trust. And, you know, when somebody refers me, I’ll tell them, and I mean it with, you know, with all my heart, I’m going to take care of this person. My reputation’s on the line, your reputation on the line. And then at the end of the day, you know, I talked to a first time homebuyer yesterday. It’s scary.
It’s an exciting time, but it’s scary. so nothing’s going to replace the human element. That’s the good news for people that are worried about technology and all the advancement and AI. Talking to a human being, having a human being say, I know it’s a little bit overwhelming. I’m going to explain it to you really simple. When I bought my first house, I was scared as heck, just like you are. But you’re going to thank yourself later. Your future self is going to thank you for taking this step at 26 years old.
whatever the case may be. that kind of stuff still excites me just talking about it. I love it because it’s a people business above everything else.
Michelle Kesil (07:16)
Yeah, absolutely, I love that. And I know that you really value education, so what are some like maybe small educational tips you can offer people?Matt The Mortgage Guy (07:28)
Yeah, I think that for people that are thinking about buying a house, whether it’s a house they’re going to live in or investment property, they should start by understanding the numbers. And you don’t have to be an engineer or a data or math nerd. Everyday people, nurses and school teachers have a basic understanding of math. And that’s where I like to keep it really, really simple. And every pre-approval.has numbers attached to it. It’s not like you’re approved for a $600,000 house, good luck. It’s here’s what it looks like at $550, principle interest, taxes and insurance, total cash to close. If you bought it at $600, here’s what it looks like. So my advice to people is find somebody who can do that for you. Find somebody who can make it simple. The good news is too, there’s so much available on the internet. You can get a good amount of information.
from a YouTube video, from even typing into chat GPT, like, know mortgage interest rates are higher than they’ve been in a few years. If I bought something at 500,000 with 10 % down and I’m in California, what would that look like? I think chat GPT can get most of that, right? Like, here’s what property taxes should be. But it’s even better if you can do that with a human being who’s closed 2,000 loans, right? And that human being can tell you, here’s a
personalized Excel spreadsheet for your scenario. Here’s exactly what it’s going to look like. And I think, you know, more than anything, what I’ve experienced is you present that to somebody and they start to relax a little bit. It’s this big, overwhelming thing that, you know, they didn’t think was possible or they don’t know how it all works. You boil it down to simple steps and explain it to them.
in relatively simple fashion and all of a sudden, you know, some of that fear, anxiety turns into, you know, excitement.
Michelle Kesil (09:53)
Yeah, absolutely, I love that perspective. So what are you like most focused on solving or scaling next in your business?Matt The Mortgage Guy (10:03)
Yeah, that’s a great question and it’s really top of mind for me because I’ve been doing a lot like anybody who’s got any business is being told by smart people like invest time in learning AI, invest an hour a day, even if it’s just, you know, throwing prompts at any of the different, you know, AI models so you can learn how to get better at it. And so one thing that I’m focused on isI want to help the masses and that’s why I started the YouTube channel. That’s why I’ve created 1600 plus videos is because I’m trying to educate and help people and the truth the matter is I’m only one person. I can’t do you know conversations at scale. can’t do you know individualized kind of here’s what it looks like. I can do that with hundreds of clients.
and over the years thousands of clients, but I’m talking about millions of people being able to help them. This is where AI is going to help. And this AI that I kind of hinted at when me and you talked offline, that I’m looking at, people that are way, smarter than me, have trained these language models to, you you, Michelle, you live in California.
You’re looking to buy a house, you fill out a form and here’s the type of house. Here’s, you know, different things about my profile and the AI can answer specific questions to you back and then you give it more data and gives you back. And so when, when I’m prospecting, you know, across the internet, whether that’s making videos or holding webinars and people reach out.
It’s really hard to respond to 425 inquiries, right? But if the AI can help with that and give people good information back, that’s personalized. I saw you inquired about three and a half percent down FHA. Let me tell you a little bit that, you inquired about, you know, a conventional loan or a VA loan, whatever it is, using the technology to educate at scale is super, super powerful. And you know, we’ve seen.
the mortgage industry change as the real estate industry has changed over the last few years where I think the people that aren’t taking it as serious and the people that are maybe not as skilled or not as passionate about doing this stuff have found other jobs, which is a great thing, right? Those of us that really care about making impact at scale are gonna use the technology to be able to do that.
Michelle Kesil (12:21)
Yeah, absolutely. So I love that you’re leveraging this technology. I know that when we talked before, you said you wanted to share a little bit of story about this chat bot. Is that something that you wanted to share?Matt The Mortgage Guy (12:31)
Yeah.Well, yeah. And so it was basically, you know, the story I just shared with without kind of the details because I could hold a webinar and, you know, you get educated through the webinar, but you’re one of a thousand and your scenario is different than the other 999 people. And so you click on a web page that has seven or ten questions for you specific.
And when you answer those seven or 10 questions, those get plugged in. The AI then responds to you via email based on those things. And you get to go back and forth and have like, it blows my mind seeing it. When I see it, I’m like, my gosh, if you took like the best loan originators in the country and all the knowledge they have and ask them to just sit in a room.
and respond to people’s inquiries, like this would be the output, right? And so, you know, that is just going to be one of many things that loan originators use going forward. And to be honest, part of me is kind of overwhelmed and afraid of how good this technology is. But on the other side of the coin, just like an overwhelmed home buyer, like
There’s some excitement in there too. And my excitement is around like, man,
Matt The Mortgage Guy (14:29)
And so, yeah, like leveraging the technology, like you said, is just, it’s gonna be fun.Michelle Kesil (14:36)
Yeah, amazing. Love that. That’s something important to note in this changing world. So I know that you also own a lot of investment properties, and a lot of the listeners here are investors. What are some maybe strategies or tools that you’ve combined with your expertise in the mortgage and investing space that you can share with other investors?Matt The Mortgage Guy (15:00)
Yeah, I mean real estate investing. I’ve always been a big fan of real estate and as a mortgage broker It’s really cool because I get to live vicariously through investors And so when somebody comes to me and like I’m thinking about doing this or I might buy a duplexI get excited and I start telling them about you know, cool ways to structure it or Investment types or strategies that I think work. I’m not saying it because I saw it on an Instagram reel, right? I’m saying it because I saw a human being do it, you know, I saw my past client Execute the strategy and it worked or I’m seeing in real time clients doing it and it’s working and so There’s ⁓ tons of different ways to do it and I think it’s individual
Just like you know the individual buyer with a different loan type and a different credit score is gonna get that advice Another reason to connect with a high-level Mortgage broker and real estate agent is because then you know you can talk about Here’s my goals. I’ve got $200,000 a year in annual income owner a place that with real estate I love real estate and I can say well I’ve got a guy Jared
who’s investing down in Arizona, he found this thing called shared living through the, the, you know, pad split model. He’s got.
House that’s split into six different bedrooms. He’s renting each bedroom individually. He bought it for this This is how much he put down. This is his mortgage payment. This house is netting him about $3,500 a month then he did it again. This house has seven bedrooms. It’s netting this much and Jared did it with six houses. He replaced a $200,000 income and You know, he liked the IT job while he had it, but he’s burnt out. He’s done. He’s excited about real estate now and
He’s making $200,000 a year doing real estate. That’s not me like Using an Instagram real or something. That’s a real life Jared exists, right and and so you know there’s there’s so many different strat and really it changes by like Not only where you live, but what your goals are. I’ve got tons of investors in, California
Michelle Kesil (16:51)
Yeah. Yeah.Matt The Mortgage Guy (17:03)
Don’t need cash flow, but if they invest right over the next decade They’re gonna have eight figures in in net worth because California real estate on Average has appreciated six point nine percent of last 40 years. It doesn’t have to even do that good It can do three or four or five percent Somebody gets a hold of four or five propertiesYou know four or five properties in California, you know You’ve got seven figures worth of real estate ⁓ And you know through appreciation through debt pay down through rental increases, you know, that’s gonna look really good in 20 or 30 years You know, so that’s a different investor than somebody who might be buying single-family homes in Memphis, Tennessee and they’re trying to get cash flow You know, maybe
Michelle Kesil (17:27)
Yeah. Yeah.Matt The Mortgage Guy (17:47)
Wife works husband stay at home with the kids and he’s like I got some time. I’ve got this passion for real estate I’m gonna go out there and see what I can do You know what if I buy it at this price with this down I can get three or four hundred dollars a month in Memphis, Tennessee Or even better. I can buy it. can rehab it I can refinance it and I don’t have any money in the deal and I can rinse and repeat all with the same capitalIf we do it right and we do two a year in ten year or in five years, I’m gonna have ten properties And they’re gonna average Four hundred dollars a month each one. So that’s gonna be an extra four thousand dollars a month in income. I can still stay home with the kids
That health insurance through the wife feel like everyone’s got a different scenario and that’s the beauty of it is like real estate and real estate investing Can be done a thousand different ways and I’ve seen it done a thousand different ways. And so I think that’s really the magic in talking to somebody who’s done enough and experienced enough is You just tell your story
Here’s who I am. Here’s what my goals are. Here’s what I’m thinking. Here’s what I’m strong at. And that person could say, you know what? Maybe consider this. Maybe consider that. And the funny part is somebody who’s thinking about investing in real estate might just go, well, I saw an advertisement online. Like, I’m going to call somebody in a call center. That’s not helping you get closer to your goals. Like, oh, I found a 5.875 instead of a 5.99. I’m winning. You’re saving $30 a month. The right advice?
Michelle Kesil (19:07)
Right?Matt The Mortgage Guy (19:08)
Might make you an extra five million dollars right so stop Stop what’s the saying it’s your stepping over dollars to pick up penniesMichelle Kesil (19:10)
Yeah.Mm-hmm. Yeah, amazing. That’s such good advice and important strategies for people of all levels.
Matt The Mortgage Guy (19:24)
For surefor sure. Yeah, and that’s the thing too is I work with investors who have eight figure hotels after They’ve done a lot of stuff with me in residential They bought four plexus and duplexes and they’ve scaled that to 30 doors Then they sell and 1031 exchange and they’ve got hotels and they’re doing humongous things and then I’ve got people who are just calling me and saying
I’ve got this this this home that we’ve outgrown. I’ve got a two and a half percent interest rate my payments 1742 We’ve got 55,000 in for a down payment on the next house. Should I buy the next one and keep this one as an investment? Sometimes it makes sense. Sometimes it doesn’t but like that person is talking about you know converting and Making their primary their first investment or maybe they’re 19 years old They’re gonna buy a duplex live in one side and rent out the other
I had a 19 year old do that a few months a months ago, right? And so it’s like the beginners the pros and everything in between I’ve seen it all and I’m able to relate with all of it. And so ⁓ yeah, it’s it’s exciting to be a part of people’s journey in that way
Michelle Kesil (20:26)
Yeah, absolutely. It sounds like you really understand the investment realm and can support people. So yeah, what is like the number one, maybe, that investors kind of have that you often are like guiding them to overcome?Matt The Mortgage Guy (20:43)
think recently one thing I’ve had to Really advise on because like I’m 45 years old and So so now I’m at a point where you know when I first started in mortgage most of my clients were older than me now I find so many coming to me. They’re younger than me as they just don’t know what they don’t know and Unfortunately,live in a fast-moving
Society where a seven second tick-tock or a 15 second Instagram reel can get you like Excited and probably provide a lot of false. Hope so so the number one misconception I’ll say is that real estate is get rich quick most all strategies in real estate
You sure there’s some wholesaling stuff and so there’s different things where you can make capital and you might flip a house and make $200,000 but the vast majority of people I know in real estate who have accumulated vast amounts of wealth
They did it slow and steady and it’s just it’s not as sexy I admit but it’s a sure thing and I I would I would much rather have a sure thing than you you know bet on a meme coin or try to get rich quick some other way and You know your investment goes to zero because in real estate Like it’s if done the right way. It’s really hard to ever have some you know You’re never gonna buy a house for 400 grand. That’s worth zero someday, right? Like it doesn’t go to
But sometimes you’ve got to buy an asset. You’ve got to hold it. You might have some issues You know, you might lose a tenant. You might have an AC go bad, but over time Five years ten years twenty years down the road You look back and go. Holy moly Rent on that house has doubled You know the mortgage has been paid down Like by three hundred thousand dollars by the tenant. I haven’t paid a dime like
you know, the thing is appreciated three percent a year and Gosh when I look back over 15 years like that’s 500 grand in appreciation and so It doesn’t take Rocket science and it doesn’t take a lot like i’ve got so many examples of somebody owns six homes in california in 20 years These homes that they’ve owned for 10 years will be paid free and clear And it’ll be worth nine point six million dollars
You can do a lot of stuff with nine point six million dollars. You can sell it and you can 1031 exchange it to some You know big office space that’s got you know tenants that are on 10 and 20 year leases and it’s a it’s a triple net lease type of deal where you’re not even paying the taxes or the insurance and it’s it’s income on autopilot, right that there’s tons of different ways to exit that but what I’m saying is like
Buying six houses over the course of a decade is is not Like some fancy fast get rich quick strategy. It’s like you bought a house you lived in it for two years You moved out you bought another one
Then you saved a little bit and you bought a duplex then this really good opportunity came along to buy a triplex You sold the original single family you moved into 1031 exchange and bought the triplex and Those things were cash flowing great. We’re saving money from your job You found another opportunity where there’s a really nice duplex The cash flowed great you bought that it’s like these aren’t like humongous home runs
This is like slow and steady accumulation of an asset that appreciates over time The rents on it also go up over time and then where I come in I give you 30 year fixed rate debt that doesn’t change right? You’ve got a payment on this asset that will not change I think Warren Buffett talked about like the 30 year mortgage being the greatest thing of all time If I write you a loan at six point two five percent You know exactly what the principal interest will be
The first month you pay that mortgage up till the 360th month till it’s paid off and the best part is if rates go down You get to come back and say hey, I’d like to refinance. I heard I can get a five point two five percent I’m never gonna call you and say hey listen the banks they’re looking for another one percent We’d like to refinance you into seven and a quarter. We want more interest like you’ve got that fixed rate payment
That is like a hedge against inflation because in ten years the two thousand you pay today is worth a lot less It can only get better for you can’t get worse beautiful thing
Michelle Kesil (24:41)
Amazing. Love that. Thank you for sharing. So before we wrap up here, someone wants to reach out, connect with you, learn more. Where can they find you?Matt The Mortgage Guy (24:49)
⁓ I’d love for them to go ⁓ follow Matt the mortgage guy in YouTube 1600 plus videos and I try to do my best to answer questions and educate the best I can if you go to MTM g.com My website which MTM G is Matt the mortgage guy I bought the domain to make it easy on people everything I do is trying to make things easier for people So instead of having to spell out Matt the mortgage guy calm you just go empty mg calm Love to connect whether it’s you know, I get emails sometimesDo and I don’t expect you to respond to this but here’s what I’m going then Nick, you know somebody Somewhere that I can’t help but they want to compare between two banks Hopefully I’ll forever be able to respond to every single one of those if not, I’ll definitely try my best
Michelle Kesil (25:32)
Well, I appreciate your time, your story and perspective. So thank you so much for being here. Yeah, and for those of you tuning in, if you got value, make sure you’ve subscribed. We have more conversations coming with operators just like Matt. We’re building real businesses. We’ll see you all on our next episode.Matt The Mortgage Guy (25:37)
For sure. Thanks, Michelle. Appreciate it.
