Transform Your Real Estate Game: Lessons from Zach Coppinger’s Journey

Mike Hambright (00:00.578)
We’ve got three acres out in Heath that we engaged architect on two weeks ago. So we are moving even further east. Yeah. All right. You ready? Yes, sir.

Mike Hambright (00:16.462)
That means move closer to the mic. OK. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Zach, welcome. Welcome to the show. Appreciate you having me. Yeah. We’ve been talking for a little bit ahead of time. And this is our very first show in the kind of studio, which is just the other half of my office. Somebody knows exactly where we’re at here. But I’m excited to talk to you today. We’ve kind of restarted the Investor Fuel podcast and going to do a crap load of episodes this year. And.

doing some of them in the office here. And you’re my first guest. And we’ve been friends for a long time, but we don’t talk as often as I would like. And so glad to have you here. No, the relationship’s a bit interesting because my wife’s a little bit shy. And I said, you know what? This guy invited me on this trip to Montana, this cool kind of bucket list trip. And she said, well, how are the people going? Because she knows most of the real estate friends I have are a little bit older than I am.

And I said, you know, just an array of ages. And we get there, and we’re the youngest people in the group by far. But we had a fantastic time. And then I’ll talk to you for a year, year and a half, and then pick it back up. And your name’s always around, though. So I see you everywhere. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Well, so you’re here in the Dallas-Fort Worth market, where I operate as well. so I think, when did you start real estate investing? I started in 2008. I know you started after that. Yeah, I started working for an investor in 2013, worked for him for about a year, and then

Approximately a year then went out on my own so since 2013 in the business on my own since 2014 Tim Harridge. sir Yeah, yeah, Tim was scheduled for next week. He had to reschedule but yeah cool so So I want to talk about we’re gonna talk today about it’s interesting because you have a ton of experience you’re definitely You know a formidable player in the Dallas Fort Worth real estate scene and Not a flashy guy, so you’re not have you’re not driving a Lambo

No. No, I drive a Dodge pickup. Yeah. But I know you’ve built an impressive business. You’re very methodical. I know enough about you to know that you have a good business mind. And there’s some people that just hustle their way to success. And there’s some people that are playing chess and not necessarily checkers. And we talked about that a little bit. I think that’s really what we’re going talk about today is having a bigger vision for your business that’s not just so transactional and not all focused on.

Mike Hambright (02:38.776)
today money, it’s like how do I build something that can feed my family and change my family tree, right? Yeah, and that’s actually an interesting point you talked about with chess versus checkers and then kind of grit and just hustle versus some grace. And I feel like the first 10 years, so I started in about 2013, the first eight to 10 years felt like a mixture of chess, so being strategic with the decisions that were being made, but it just felt like there was a lot of friction and it was just.

kind of grinding and pushing through to get to certain points. So it was a mixture of the two of having a vision, but also just a lot of hard work and a lot of grit to get to a certain point. And it feels like it’s opened up a little bit, got some help in the office, but you project out whenever you’re starting to build a business and you say, if I can hit this milestone, this marker, I’ll get through this threshold, this gets easier. And it just felt like the relief did not come.

hitting those thresholds like you thought it would, until about that 10-year mark where it feels like things have actually opened up a little bit. I heard someone say the other day, it takes a good 10 years to build something that’s valuable, that’s worth something, just as far as a business that can actually operate as a business. And I’ve got a lot of hindsight for that now, and it feels very true. It feels very true. Yeah, you get to a point where I’ve used this example a few times where people say, they ask me a question.

When this happened to you, what did you do? And I said, well, that’s never happened to me, but here’s what I would do. You just get to a point where you have, like, I am comfortable coming up with a solution to a problem and being a little strategic. You’re a little more Yoda-ish. You just get to a point where you’re like, OK, well, I don’t know if this is the perfect answer, but here’s what I would do. You just get comfortable solving. I mean, your whole business is solving problems, right? It is. And as the business grows, as you get employees, as the assets under management get larger.

More problems come up. So it’s just solving problems right quite often and being efficient at solving problems is what keeps things moving forward Yeah, yeah, and then stuff like kovat hits or The rate change a couple years ago and you just I think some of it’s a business confidence. You’re just like There’s still people there’s still people with problems There’s people still need a place to live like there will be solutions to these problems and you get to a point where you’re like

Mike Hambright (04:58.574)
If I just get really good at solving problems and I don’t run away every time there’s a problem, I’m going to come out on top. And to kind of reach back to your prior point that we talked about, which was building something with vision, to me, I heard this quote. And I’m not trying to be too cheesy about it. But it said, planning for the known unknowns. You don’t know what’s coming. But if you’re planning for something that could be an interruption, that interruption is not near as difficult to handle as it would be if you hadn’t planned for anything.

Yeah. So COVID, you know, what’s going to happen? Who knows? A lot of people were asking their banks for forbearance in the second that COVID hits. Well, we had some cash reserves that allowed us some flexibility to say, hey, we can wait this thing out for a little bit to see what happens and then adjust. We weren’t worried. We weren’t losing sleep over what do we do tomorrow if tenants stop paying rent tomorrow, if owner finance payee stop paying their notes tomorrow. What do we do? So planning for the known unknowns, I think, allows you some flexibility to make

efficient informed decisions not out of pressure, but out of what you think the vision is for the future moving forward based on where you’re at today. Yeah, that’s great. And having some cash reserves, like being able to set aside money to say this is essentially an opportunity fund or some cushion. Like most people, if they get into a bind, like their runway to figure their way out is like weeks or, know. And if you like have some backup ammo, some dry powder, right, then.

you can be more patient. And honestly, it ultimately ends up allowing you to not only stand the test of time, but take advantage of opportunities that others can’t. Yeah, that’s absolutely right. Whenever COVID hit, I remember our calls were to our bankers not to ask for forbearance, but it was to say, hey, we’ve got this much to keep us going for this amount of time. I’m not asking for you to roll any payments onto the back of loans. I’ll keep paying you. I want you to keep extending me credit. So we were able to continue buying through COVID. And we didn’t buy super aggressively.

We bought some deals, others we passed on. We were kind of uncertain what the future looked like. But we were able to choose what we wanted to do. We weren’t dictated what we had to do by market conditions. Right. Yeah. I think there was a lot of freedom in that. And that didn’t come from a month’s worth of planning that came with seven or eight years of vision of building the business how we wanted to build it. Yeah, yeah. And COVID wasn’t the last one. There will be something. there’ll be something else. Yeah, something else will happen. Let’s talk about your business model. I mean, it’s evolved over time. And I know you’re.

Mike Hambright (07:23.054)
You’re more, you probably would identify more with being a real estate entrepreneur. There’s a lot of things you do, not necessarily a wholesaler or a fix and flipper and you do some lending. Now you do a lot of different things. So tell us a little bit about your model. I’ll try to kind of break it down how I started. Started out wholesaling and the goal with wholesaling was to generate income to be able to have enough equity to go buy rental properties. And the goal was to build a rental portfolio of a hundred properties, get a hundred of them and sail off into the sunset and just quit.

Or retire so to speak and I got to I think I got up to about 40 rentals Right around the age. think it was my mid to late 20s and I was just loving it I didn’t want to stop and I said man on this trajectory. I’m gonna be out of a job within you few years I don’t want to do that. And then I started to fall out of love with rental properties they weren’t really producing much income and they were taking a lot of effort to I think we ran the numbers on a portfolio of 40 something properties

think we were cash flowing net net, like 100 grand a year. And it was taking quite a bit of time. So then I tried to pivot a little bit, started to just pick off and keep the really good rental properties, not the 1950s stick builds that were always having these maintenance issues that we were getting called on, but maybe the brick 322s built in the 70s and 80s. And then the older properties we were taking down and we were on financing. And that note income got really,

because you didn’t have to work near as hard for it. It was very consistent. So we went pretty hard into developing and originating owner finance notes. And this was all predicated by continuing to market in the wholesale business and just picking off the good properties that came in and wholesaling the rest. So there was income generation on the wholesale side to be able to portfolio assets on the backend. The note income was great. And then I turned around and paid a huge bill to Uncle Sam, because I had no depreciation to offset.

So then we’re starting to kind of learn about balance. And this is back in 2018 or so. How do I balance the tax benefits of depreciation, owning property with the kind of benefits of the interest income? And the note income was great because you originate the note. if you’re kind of, if you’re originating quality paper, it pays you pretty consistently. You don’t have to keep working for that income every single month. But then you’re working to try to offset that income. And then you’re peppering in and flipping properties in between.

Mike Hambright (09:48.716)
And then post COVID, we have that big run up, things appreciate like crazy. And we’ve got a bunch of equity earning single digit returns. It’s just, it’s kind of dead on the balance sheet, not doing a whole lot. So we decided to start selling off tranches of the rental portfolio and 1031 exchanging into some value add multifamily deals with some operators. Some on just the LP side, some were GPs in as well. And

the outcome of those deals is still to be determined. Some are performing well, some are not performing as well as you would have liked whenever you’re buying them kind of at the run up with COVID, post COVID. And then back in 20, I think it was in 18 or 19, no, sorry, this was 2021 because this was post COVID. Contractor friend of mine that had worked on some of my houses was asking about how to get financing for an investment property. And I’m already

in the lending business, long-term notes doing the owner finance notes. And I’ve got excess capital. And he said, how do I get a loan to flip a property? And I knew the contractor made good money. I knew he had some cash reserves. I said, I’ll loan you the money. I’ve got money sitting around. And that organically has turned itself into originating about 40 hard money loans a year. lending, rentals, lending short-term and long-term with the owner finance notes and the hard money loans, flipping.

And more recently, some curative title stuff where we’ll close deals that maybe can’t close through title. Maybe you’ve got some heirs that can’t agree to sell. One wants to sell, two don’t, whatever it may be. We’ll buy out partials. We’ll handle judgments and liens, fractured ownerships. Really anything throughout the investment process of mostly single-family assets, we can play in those verticals. Yeah. Yeah, that’s interesting.

A lot of stuff going on. I was just talking to you recently did a show with somebody that does a lot of real estate investor turned into a hard money lender, which a lot of people use the phrase private money now. don’t want to like hard money sounds like. It’s too expensive. dirty. Hard money is too expensive. Private money is the guy that’s got money sitting in a CD that you can go borrow at 8%. Yes. it’s such an interesting, I mean, it’s such a logical transition if you’ve been in the business to start doing.

Mike Hambright (12:13.646)
loans because you’re comfortable. I remember when I first started in 2008, most of the local hard hard money investors. So first off, there weren’t really there weren’t really any formidable like national hard money lenders like it was all a local type thing. And now, obviously, the national guys are huge, huge companies. But that was because when I started institutional buyers weren’t in the market yet. Like all that hadn’t happened yet. So the local folks tended to be in my experience tended to be more

I mean, some of them were old real estate dogs that got into lending. But mostly it was financial people. They didn’t really know about real estate. And this was, by the way, 2008, 2009, before people started losing their shirt, or while they were. But they were financial people that didn’t really understand real estate. Because I remember people saying, well, I’ll lend up to 90 % of the tax value. I’m like, tax value? That’s not a very good number to work it off of.

But anyway, for you, and I told you that we’ve thought about jumping into the hard money space just because people know you, so you automatically have a business. But you’re not afraid to take a house back. You know how to evaluate a deal. You know how to evaluate the rehabs. You can connect them with contractors and other people that they might need to try to keep them safe because you want them to be safe because it’s your money, right? Yeah, the interesting thing with hard money lenders is you’ve got tiers. And you had talked about

how they used to be just kind of financial guys. do think there’s some really good kind of real estate minded operators in the hard money space that are a major value add to people looking to get some financing on their deals. That being said, you’ve got levels. You’ve got these hard money companies that are doing 10, 20, $100 million of originations, $100 million worth of originations in a year.

they’re securitizing their notes on the back end and they’re subject to some more corporate structures than someone who’s just loaning out their own money. I’m a small fry, I do 40 a year. Mostly with my own money. And I’ve got complete autonomy over what I choose to do or not to do. If someone brings me a single wide mobile home on two acres, I can underwrite that a lot differently than the big hard money company can that’s trying to go securitize on the back end. And I think that’s a

Mike Hambright (14:34.382)
major value add to some operators that are trying to, you know, they’ve got certain plays where you’ve got a double lot with a mobile home on it and they want to go subdivide the lot and they can sell each lot for roughly, you know, just a 20 % delta for what the price is of the double. But there’s a lot of nuance there, right? So I think everyone’s got their niche in the space. And my niche has kind of become, hey, I need someone who’s who can look at the deal beyond just putting a standard appraisal together.

I’m just going go pull four comps and average them out and tell me what the value is. I want you to understand what it is I’m doing with the property, and you decide if the risk profile is worth it for you. That’s kind of where I operate. And I think, I mean, I know you’ve kind of even said, and I totally get it. It’s like you’re not the cheapest guy in town either. You’re not even trying to be, right? So probably one of the more expensive options. But you can close in a couple days if you want to, and you can work through.

unique situations that the big box guys are not going to quite understand. Yeah, I had a loan that got submitted to me actually on Friday and I comped it and I just said, Hey, I’ll tell the borrower. said, I’m not seeing your value there. you know, I all these comps and this is what I’m looking at. And, he said, yeah, but you’re outside of the urban, like you’re outside of the, development district. And I said, I didn’t even know that you were within the development district. That’s my fault. I need to look at that more closely. And he pointed me in the right direction.

And you don’t get that nuance with a lot of lenders that are bigger, because they’re trying to produce volume. Right. Well, they’re sitting in an office halfway around the country somewhere and looking at everything. They’re a hammer, and that’s a nail. It’s just a different process. everyone’s got their niche. More efficient, I say not more efficient, but cheaper money that you can scale with for your standard kind of inside the box deal, there’s lenders that serve that purpose. And that’s not really my purpose for investors.

So I’ve just kind of carved out that niche and it’s a it’s a business that takes I don’t know ten hours a week and Performs pretty well and it was it an organic vertical that just kind of came about not one that we went to go that we sought out to go get deals or produce loans and the overhead of the business is Zero, we’ve already got the back office for everything else and it absorbs some of the back offices resources

Mike Hambright (16:44.942)
So it’s not a technical zero, but the infrastructure is already in place and the marketing budget zero. it just kind of, as loans come in, we fund them. So I want to talk a little bit more about the curative title stuff, just doing dirty deals, figuring out how to do dirty deals. But so before we get into that, though, just talk maybe a little about your thoughts and your philosophy. And I kind of know where you’re at. just with having lots of tools in your tool belt. And I think that that is a sign of maturity. That’s a sign of, I’ve been around a long time, you’ve been around a long time.

start to, when you’re not forced to do things one way, you can always make more money, because you’ve got more options. Yeah, so the curative title business was kind of born out of necessity for not having the tools to get certain deals done. There would be deals that would break down. You’ve spent the marketing. They’ve come through your funnel. You’ve got some willing parties willing to play ball, and you’re just stuck for whatever it may be, judgments, liens, fractured ownerships, something preventing the sale through a title company.

And you’re just kind of watching that money go out the window and the deal’s just sitting. And I do remember one deal I couldn’t get figured out, and it just sat in our CRM. We had the sellers on board and just couldn’t get title clear. And I looked back on it a year later, and somebody had bought it and figured it out. And I still don’t know how they figured it out, right? But it was something I couldn’t do. And never been the most creative person, but if someone can figure something out, I should be able to figure the same thing out, right? They’re not.

they don’t have some esoteric information that’s like far beyond my understanding. is available. It’s available. Who’s doing something with it? So being able to capitalize on the opportunities are in front of you. I think it’s very important and you don’t you get that through rubbing shoulders with with people through building a network through building some long standing relationships. You you’ve you’ve been around longer than I have. I’ve been around since about 2013, but

The relationships that I’ve kind of built through 2013 to today are still the relationships I have today. There’s not a lot of burned bridges along the way. you maintain the ability to go back into those groups and ask questions and develop relationships. And people kind of know what you do. You know what they do. And you can be a sand board for each other. yeah, doing things the right way on the way up pays dividends well into the future. Yeah. And even with having other tools like

Mike Hambright (19:04.14)
I’m going to keep this as a rental. I’m going to own or finance this. I mean, all of these deals that you’ve done, you could have wholesaleed, probably, in most instances. how do you look at it now? Like, most people are trying to. One of the things that I talk a fair bit about and I think a lot about is that a lot of folks operate at the level where they’re kind of operating two day and close to break even. So it forces them to have to do something today. They need to day money today. And they don’t have the ability to have this kind of delayed gratification to say,

I’m going to owner finance this, or I’m going to keep it as a rental. And I agree with you. My rentals have never cash flowed as well. I had a mentor early on that was like, you’re never going to get any appreciation in Texas, so it’s got to all be about cash flow. And the reality, and this is somebody that has a lot of properties, you know it is. the cash flow has never been very good.

And it looks OK, but then you get like a $40,000 make ready or something ridiculous. You’re like, gosh, dang it. That house is not going to cash flow for like literally 10 years and everything goes perfectly. But the appreciation’s been incredible since that time. I mean, I’m very wealthy on paper, at least, from my rental properties. But also, we’ve thought at some point, we’ll start to just owner finance all these off, because that’s how we’ll probably exit these things eventually.

Because if I sell it as a package, I’m going to have to discount it. I don’t really want to discount it. I’d always squeeze everything out of it. It’s probably to own or finance it. But just talk a little bit about when you look at a deal now, how you decide what you’re going to do with it. Like, I’m going to wholesale this. We’re going to fix and flip it. We’re going to keep it as a rental, or we’re going to own or finance it, or something else. Yeah, so our operation is four full-time employees in office plus myself. I’ve got a network of contractors. And then my dad works in the back office for about three.

hours a week. So we don’t have this massive organization that can handle everything. So it’s not simply, it’s a great flip, let’s keep it as a flip. It kind of has to do with how many projects do we have going on at the specific time, how long we’re going be sitting. However, the cash reserves are in a place where we can afford to make whatever decision that we want. And that’s just been through, we’ve got four full-time employees. I’ve had

Mike Hambright (21:24.096)
more than enough volume to have a lot more than four full-time employees. The portfolio is big enough to have more than four full-time, but I was always do as much as I can by myself until I needed to hire my first employee. Then I hired the first, we ran as far and as fast as we could until we hired our second, third and fourth, right? So the overhead never got away from us. It was always revenue far exceeding overhead. It wasn’t go higher and then figure out how to backfill and pay the employee, which meant that the income always stayed ahead of the expenses by a significant margin.

which allowed us flexibility and freedom to say, do we want to do with the property? We’re not capital constrained. We are other resource constrained, which could be employees or help or whatever it may be, project managers, which I don’t have, which is why if we choose to wholesale, choose to fix and flip, choose to turn to a rental or an underfinance note, it all kind of depends on how many projects we have in the pipeline and what we can manage at that specific time. Yeah. And sometimes the deal itself.

drives what we have to do as far as how fast it has to close. What the seller’s needs are, I mean, even in this climate, in a signee that you assign it to, and they choose to be very difficult, and they’re trying to default on the deal, and then you may have to rescue the seller and pay so that your reputation is not tarnished for not having closed. That happened, that almost happened to us yesterday. Luckily, we got that one closed. yeah, capital cures a lot of problems in having enough capital to.

Smooth out the the bumps of real estate investing Make things feel easier than I think they can be if your capital constrained. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I’m curious if you’re 1030 wanting stuff into more commercial assets So we’ve I’m a GP in about eight or ten big deals and They haven’t been going they all there’s a few that are okay. There’s a couple that are like it’s been a bumpy road same

problem is, so we’ve got a bunch of money coming back over the next year or two from these deals that we just, by definition, they have to sell or they’re planning to sell. so my challenge is how to reapply that. There’s just not a lot of good deals out there right now. And I know that that’ll start to shake loose over the next couple of years as well. But how are you finding deals, commercial deals to invest in that have some meat on the bones these days? Yeah, the number of deals transacting in the space are much fewer than they were.

Mike Hambright (23:45.282)
I’ve spent quite a bit of time networking with operators, and not just any operator. I try to find just a handful of operators that have done well, that have been able to navigate the market conditions, that I feel confident and comfortable in their character and also their ability to underwrite the current market. And they’re out there pounding the pavement trying to find deals every day. a lot of operators are holding on for dear life, seeing if they can wait out the market conditions and then be able to sell. Others…

There’s some lender pressure to say you’ve got to do something with this deal. We’re not liking the direction that it’s headed. Occupancies are going down. Collections are going down and you’ve got a renewal coming up and we’re not in a position to want to renew you. Right. Or the rate’s going to go up by three, four, five, six percent. Right. So I would say a lot of networking with certain operators and I’m not doing, you know, seven, eight deals a year. I don’t want to paint that picture. We invested in

We invested in a fund last year that had four deals in it. Year before that, I did two 1031 exchanges that were each about a million bucks. So I mean, a couple deals a year. But the 1031 exchanges where you’ve got, let’s say, five or six rentals a year trying to sell, line up the timing to then go deploying to the next deal, that’s, I mean, I’m 35, and that’s a young man’s game. That’s hard. Especially in the marketplace where you’ve got

back-end consumer buyers. So in the single family space, I’m not selling to investors. I’ve got a rental that turns over, it needs a 20k make ready, or renovation to get it market ready. We get it market ready, then we go try to sell it on the open market. And I’ve got to offer it at a price that’s conducive enough to get it to sell quickly.

And then you’ve got these borrowers that are having difficulties getting qualified for whatever reason. Everything’s just hard in the credit space right now. So you’re just fighting tooth and nail with everything to get these deals across the finish line. It’s been challenging, but we’ve been able to make it happen every time. it never feels easy. It’s a challenge every time. So I know you don’t have a crystal ball, but where do you think things are going here over the next year or two?

Mike Hambright (26:02.112)
something’s gotta break either to the positive or to the negative. And right now it’s just kind of competing forces of prices have dipped a little bit, but I think prices have relatively been pretty stable. And I’m talking about the single family market specifically. People are used to their 3 % mortgage at 30 years fixed or sub 3%. I think the market will either absorb and get used to higher interest rates or…

rates will drop a little bit, people will get some relief. I just don’t think that much is gonna happen with asset pricing. I think asset pricing either stays flat or we hit some other, the market gains confidence, rates drop a little bit and prices tick up. But I do think that we are, if we’re due for an uptick in the next three or four years, I think it’s gonna be a more traditional 3 % year over year, not a hockey stick.

It depends on the market, I’ve been around before, though. We’re in Dallas right now, and you operate here as well. So I mean, it’s different by market, but this market is still continuing to have a major population increase. So it’s just supply and demand. there’s more demand and not enough supply. I believe the metrics have DFW becoming the third largest MSA overtaking Chicago within the next. think it’s.

think it’s six or seven years. I’m not positive, but the growth is incredible. And whenever you’ve got growth, the dollar’s already diluted. We’re still continuing to print. So the money’s in the market. After having been printed through COVID, prices are not going down. Prices are here to stay. So there’s going to be wage growth, and there’s going to be an increase in the cost of living that continues to go up as the population increases. That’s my opinion. It doesn’t mean that they’re all one for one and just move in conjunction with each other quickly. I feel like we’ve been in a holding pattern for a

a year and half or two years, just kind of waiting to see what lever’s going to drop. But I’m not in fear of the bottom just dropping out. That’s not a fear that I have. Yeah, I don’t think it’s going happen here. No. There might be some other markets that that happens more of, but not here. Yeah, if you’ve got a mass exodus of jobs, of companies, I think that’s something to be more concerned about. But you’re in the VC market, there’s a lot of inventory on the market right There is. The DFW market, as far as the economic market, has been very robust.

Mike Hambright (28:20.882)
Give politicians credit for attracting companies to come here, and the job growth is pretty strong. Yeah. So if folks want to get a hold of you, you’re here in the DFW market, operating in Texas. I know you’re looking to partner with people on kind of curative deals. Just tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, you can get a hold of me through Facebook, Zach Coppinger. I have an Instagram that I don’t get on, so don’t reach out to me there. Facebook is where I’m kind of most prevalent as far as posting things and checking messages.

but i’m a pretty bad millennial whenever it comes to social media and contact you know between ring central and facebook and my text messages and emails there’s too many things to check whatsapp for the contractors there’s too many things to check for people messaging me so facebook’s probably the best place to get a hold of me yeah and get a response in a decent amount time yeah and specifically you’re looking for people that have title let’s just talk about the have deals that have have some stink on them they don’t feel like they can get them done and you

you know how to navigate some of those waters. Yeah, so if you’ve got a deal that’s stuck at title, you’ve tried to close it, you’ve got either heirs that won’t cooperate, judgments and liens, whatever it may be, if it’s stuck and you’ve tried to solve it, reach out to me and see if I can be of some service to you. You’ll always make the most money if you can close it yourself. I’m not suggesting that I’m going to be able to pay you some magic number that nets you what you would have if you would have been able to close the deal yourself. I’m kind of a safety valve in case you can’t get something done yourself. any deal that you can’t close,

Work as hard as you can. Do your best to close it. you can’t close it, reach out to me. I’ll see if I can get it closed. Awesome. Well, thanks for sharing your story and some insights. Thanks for being our very first guest here in the studio. Yes, sir. I appreciate it. Always good to see you, buddy. Yes, you too. Awesome. Everybody, hope you got some good information for today. Zach’s a great guy. think one of the things that I like about Zach is that he really runs his business like a business and isn’t short-sighted making decisions today that are going to cost you money down the line. You wish you’d done it another

that’s one of the biggest things in life is to figure out how to live with as few regrets as possible. So she definitely follows Zach on Facebook. And if you’re interested in if you have any titles that are messy that you just can’t get done, he might be your guy, especially here in Texas. So appreciate you guys. We’ll see you on the next show.