Hey everybody, welcome back to the Investor Fuel Show! I’m excited to have my friend and business partner, Shawn Winslow on the show today! He’s in our Cashflow group, a multi-family group inside of Investor Fuel and today, we are going to talk about how to find large multi-family deals! Let’s get started!
Mike: [00:00:00] Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the investor fuel show, really excited to have my friend and actually business partner, Sean Winslow on with us here. Uh, he is in our cashflow group is our multi-family group inside of investor fuel where somebody, you didn’t even know we had a multifamily group, but we do.
And, uh, today we’re gonna be talking about how to find large multi-family.
Professional real estate investors know that it’s not really about the real estate. That real estate is just a vehicle to freedom. A group of over a hundred of a nation’s leading real estate investors from across the country. Meet several times a year at the investor fuel real estate mastermind to share ideas on how to strengthen each other’s businesses, but also to come together as.
And builds more fulfilling lives or all of those around us on today’s show. We’re going to continue our conversations of fueling our businesses and our lives.
I’m glad you’re here.[00:01:00]
Hey, Sean, welcome to the show.
Shawn: Hey Mike. So, so excited to be here. Thank you for having
Mike: me. Yeah, buddy. I was just telling you a lot of folks inside of investor fuel investor fuel has been going on for a little over four years now and we just added the cashflow group, which is really kind of multi-family investors, as you know, um, Maybe three meetings ago, I guess.
And so it’s a smaller group growing a lot of great people, a lot of great things happening in there and, uh, excited to talk about multi-family today, which is primarily what I invest in these days. So glad to have you here.
Shawn: Hey, I’m excited and I always love talking about the family. Yeah.
Mike: Yeah. Um, so tell us a little about your background.
You, um, you know, there’s some folks that are in our group that were single family folks and they’re transitioning, that’s not your background. You will have a little bit different, uh, background.
Shawn: Yeah, I went straight into multifamily. So I’ll take it way back since, you know, if anyone who’s watching, you probably can tell them a [00:02:00] little on the younger side.
So in order to have a good store, I got to kind of take it all the way back,
Mike: way back might not be that far back.
Shawn: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Um, so growing up, I grew up in a small town in Vermont and my family were a bunch of entrepreneurs. My dad, my uncles, my grandfather. And so I was kind of conditioned in that mindset, you know, had my own, you know, lawn care business where I was Mo and my families and neighbors, lawns got some friends together to do it, to do, to get more property lawns mowed.
And we do snow, snow removal. Cause I’m from the Northeast. So yes, we get that cold thing called snow. And then slowly as I got older, it’s funny how things happen. It seems like, like a lot of people, you, a condition where you do well in high school, so you can go to a good college and then do all there to get a good quote unquote good paying job.
Um, right. So I kind of lost track of that entrepreneur spear for awhile because originally that’s what I wanted to do. But instead went to school, got a degree in finance. In [00:03:00] Boston and then started a finance career there. Um, so I worked for one of the top 10 largest investment firms, um, in the world for about seven years.
Um, we had mutual funds, ETFs, smart beta products. And so I did that for awhile. And it’s funny because after a while, you know, you think you’re going in the right direction, right. You think you’re, you’re there to, to help the investor, but after a while you realize that. This isn’t the best method of investment for people.
One it’s, it’s not cost-effective it’s, there’s no tax advantages. You know, the one who’s getting wealthy is, is the meet the people in my position, the portfolio managers, that side of the table, not the investor, like it should be. So the fees, whether they lose money or make money. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So I just kind of a moral dilemma.
I was, I didn’t want to work for a firm that was selling something that I wasn’t personally using. I just, it felt weird. So I wanted to make a change [00:04:00] and I re kinda just like stepped back in and decided, okay, well, if I want to make a change, it should be a lifestyle change to like, what type of life do I want to have?
And I looked at some of my friends that had like what I considered the type of life I wanted. I looked at successful people that I ran into throughout my life. And there was a group of people that had. Money and a flexible schedule. And the funny thing is they all had the same thing in common and that, and that was real estate.
So I was like, huh, this real estate thing. And then I remember a conversation I had with my grandfather who loved investing in stocks and that’s kind of what led me down to, um, the finance road. But one time he told me that his retirement would be all the real estate. Yes. ’cause, you know, it would pay him a monthly income.
Right. So then that really got the gears turning. I ended up taking a real estate finance class at a university in Boston, and then I went down the road and I [00:05:00] thought I was going to work for like a big private equity firm. And then I kind of had to step back. I was like, wait, no, I’m trying to get out of corporate America.
Let’s let’s do something on my own. And that’s when I syndication fell into my lap. Okay. Because I was licensed to sell securities. I had to make a decision cause I couldn’t raise money for, you know, my job and for a private placement real estate investments. So I ended up making the change into real estate.
Mike: Awesome. Awesome. That’s cool. Yeah, I think it’s common, especially if you came from an entrepreneurial background or you, you know, Without telling miles for a lot of folks that listen to my podcast have heard my story before, but I worked for a large bank and, you know, wore a suit to work and everything.
And that made me important. And then you kind of realize like, eh, this isn’t really that sexy of a job. And some of that stuff wears off and eventually as you start to grow in it, you’re like kind of thinking there must there’s surely there’s more to you working than this, right?
Shawn: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s [00:06:00] true.
And like, yeah, I’d wear the tie and the suit every day. And. There’s more to it than just that. And like, you’re, you know, you’ve got those golden golden handcuffs on, right. You probably make them a decent job, but is it fulfilling? And for me it just was not fulfilling. And I knew I needed to make a change.
And luckily I found real estate at the right.
Mike: Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. So let’s start, we’re gonna talk today about finding deals and, you know, um, we’ve obviously talked a lot about that on my show with, uh, uh, on the single family side. And I don’t know that we talked about it before this show investor fuel for the multi-family side.
And I should clarify with folks that are listening here when we say multi-family what we really focus on is kind of a hundred plus doors so that you can have professionally onsite managed. Not like, you know, four doors or eight doors or something like that, nothing wrong with any of those things. But when we say it, we’re talking about kind of large commercial properties with a hundred plus stores.
So what are some of the ways that, you know, typical investors find let’s kind of start off with what most people [00:07:00] do and then kind of hone in on what you kind of specialize in. So what are some of the more common ways to find multi-family deals?
Shawn: Yeah. So when I started off, I actually started F on the small Maltese, right.
So I had to build some passive income before I could take that leap and leave. My, um, my job. So the way I was finding those deals, which traditionally, most people do is, you know, MLS, you know, making a friend, finding with an agent or going to, you know, RIAs meetup groups where, you know, you’re getting to know people that also invest and that’s how the smaller ones are done.
Right. That’s how you find a lot of those. But when it comes to the bigger one, Primarily that is through commercial brokers. Um, yes, there are off market, um, instances where you can find deals, but it’s getting, that’s getting more and more rare just because of how hot the market is. I had, we reached, we ran a list, um, of the top of our target markets, just [00:08:00] like, you know, online, you can just run a list of properties owned, you know, break it from like a hundred doors to whatever.
And we did that and we got a. Of properties and it usually gives you the LLC. Then you look up the LLC and find who owns it. And so that’s what we did. And we reached out to a bunch of them because we just wanted to change it up. But the ones that actually replied to us, and this was in the past couple of weeks.
So this is free, pretty, um, on point on topic stuff today. And majority of them, if not, all of them said, You know, they, they appreciated us reaching out and there, and you know, some of them were interested in selling within the next six to eight months, but they all said they were going to be taking them to market just because it’s so hot.
Right. So the off markets very hard right now, you know, can you find it? Of course, but it’s pretty tough. The way you’re finding these big, large apartment complex is going through commercial real estate brokers.
Mike: Yup. Yup. Yeah. And I’m like single family deals, like the value is fixed at like the [00:09:00] retail kind of appraisal rate.
Like what is the w w what is the. For the most part, the MLS saving value is right with commercial. The cool thing is, is that you have lots of opportunities to add value. Uh, and because you’re buying it as a percentage of NOI, you’re not, you’re not multiple then all you’re not, there’s no cop next store that dictates what the value is because your situation will be very different from, you know, what’s charging rent.
You know, a lot of other efficiencies you might have and all those things. Right. So it’s a, that’s one of the best parts about multi-family is there’s effectively unlimited upside based on what you plan to do with the property.
Shawn: Yeah, exactly. And w the way I look at it is each large complex one each multifamily property.
Mike said when I’m saying that, I mean, usually a hundred plus 75 plus units. Um, the way I look at it is like, they’re their own little businesses. So Mike owns several businesses and if I wanted to buy one of Mike’s businesses, I wouldn’t look at comps. So I would look at what is his bottom [00:10:00] line that that’s what I’m buying.
And that that’s the same thing with these apartment complex. You’re buying that bottom line. Yeah. Yeah.
Mike: That’s awesome. So the good thing about that is you can buy them off of the market that are kind of listed or active and still find deals. They don’t have to be these deep off-market discounts that nobody knows
Right? Correct. Yeah. Yeah, no, obviously that’s like Nirvana right there finding that, but like I said, that’s getting harder now. Yeah.
Mike: Yeah. So talk a little about, um, cause you guys primarily focused on working with brokers and building relationships with, with commercial brokers, right? So, where did you start?
I mean, do you, are you, where are you willing to go anywhere in the country to find deals or do you focus on specific markets? I guess the first thing is you’re building relationships with brokers. They’re usually, um, geographically. I mean, they’re localized to specific markets typically. So, um, talk about like how to even know where to look kind of geographically.
Shawn: Yeah. There’s, there’s a couple of different factors, obviously, [00:11:00] you know, if you’re in a hot market, that’s in your back yard backyard, that’s ideal because you have boots on the ground knowledge, but that’s not the case for everyone. Um, especially for me, I’m in the Northeast, you know, we’re buying for cash flow and that’s very hard to buy in the Northeast, especially in the major markets like a Boston or New York.
That’s really hard. So I had to, I had to find. You know, different target markets. And so what we look for one, I wanted the ease of travel. So I didn’t want the flight to be really more than, you know, two to three hours. And so that can get me to a lot of places though, get me down, you know, to Georgia and get me over to, you know, Indiana, um, and so forth.
And so what we look for within the market, we look at the demographics. So obviously you want to see, we usually look over, you know, a 20. Span, because we want to see that it, that it’s trending in the direction that we want. So for instance, population growth, do you want to see that trending up? You know, we look for at least, you know, um, a 20% growth over the last 20 years, then we look for income growth.
We [00:12:00] look for, you know, home value growth, and we look at job growth. And then also we look at crime. We don’t want, there’s a crime number you can find. And this is all on a website called city-data.com. Um, and you don’t want a crime number above 500. So you want it below 500 and you want it over the last 10 years or so to be trending in a downward trajectory.
So we’ll look at all these, and then you also want to make sure, you know, Bye below replacement costs. Obviously that’s huge. You want it to be, you know, your demand to be stronger than your supply, obviously. So we look at all those factors and unfortunately there’s a lot of markets that do fit that. So then we had to kind of, you know, decide what, which ones do we want to focus on?
Cause I don’t think it’s great to focus on, you know, five, 10 markets you really want to focus in on 200. Um, so we were primarily focused on Georgia, South Carolina and North [00:13:00] Carolina that kind of the south Southeast right there. But we will look into other places like we do like Indiana. Um, so we have started looking at as well.
And so that’s kinda how we.
Mike: Yep. And everybody has different criteria, but, um, you know, for the most part there are, I guess there are people, um, that buy specifically for appreciation. Like they are less worried about cash flow. Those are probably more institutional players that have, you know, deeper pockets to weather the storm.
If it doesn’t cashflow, I guess. Right. But for the most part, you’re focused on cash flowing properties that are in market’s kind of B class properties, right stuff. That’s like not brand new, still in good shape. Operated fairly well, but can be improved for the most
Shawn: part, right? Correct. Yeah. That’s where we find the most meat on the bone where you can actually, you know, create some value for some appreciation, unlike a new building where everything’s already been done.
Right. Cause it’s just built. So you’re, you’re pretty much there. For, like you said, an appreciation and you know, a little better [00:14:00] downside risk.
Mike: Yep. Yup. So how do you find the rights? Uh, so once you found a market, then you, I guess you start to look up who were the brokers or agents that we should work with in this area to talk about that a little bit.
Shawn: Yeah. So the kind of the easiest way, traditional way most people do is go on like the LoopNet’s, the crack C’s of the world, their online websites that, you know, host, um, deals, you know, it’s like a Zillow, but for a commercial. But the thing about them is those are usually the not so good deals, right? The deals that ha have been like, you know, you say Zillow and it’s been on there for like 200 days.
Well, that’s not good that, that those are kind of the deals that fall, fall to the cracks CS in a LoopNet. A good way. The good thing about that is you can see what brokers are actually selling, so you can go on and get their information and reach out to them. Then there’s like the, you could just go to the major, um, brokerage firms.
So you got like the Marcus and Millichap, the CVRE, the Cushman, and Wakefield’s [00:15:00] the JLL, the Colliers and so on and so forth. And you could use. You know, pull the, the team, the multi-family teams or whatever commercial asset class you’re going after and reach out to them that way. But the, what I call the ninja way and the best way to do it is what I did is I have, I grew a relationship between my, my lender and he has a, he works for an, a national.
Lender. And they also have a brokerage arm. And so they have a lot of data when it comes to, you know, sales. So I told them these are my three markets. Could you please run a list of brokers that have transaction transact in the last 12 months. And so it spits off a list, has the brokerage firm, the brokers name, the amount of assets they sold from a dollar perspective and from a unit count.
And what’s great about that is you can kind of figure out what the average price per door is just obviously simply by taking the dollar amount [00:16:00] and divided the units by it. So then, you know what they’re focusing on. If it’s a high number, then they’re. Class a and if that’s not what you’re going after, then you probably shouldn’t focus on him or her as, as you start to go down and see the lower price per door, then you get to the BNC class that you may be focusing on.
Those are the ones you want to reach out to because we know we’re all busy at the end of the day. We don’t want to waste anyone’s time. We want to be reaching out to the right person, people that are actually doing business. And so that’s how we’ve done it and how we continue to do it is, and we’ve had great success.
Mike: Yep. And how talk a little bit about the cause that relationship is key. Like you’re, you’re trying to form relationships with people. That’ll bring you deals maybe before they take them to somebody else. Right. Or maybe even before they’re technically on the market, but they know it’s coming to market, maybe like kind of like a pocket listing type scenario.
So talk a little bit about how some things that you, maybe you do to build relationships with people. Um, like. ’cause they probably get calls like that all the time. Like, Hey, let me know when you have a good deal. Like, they hear that all the time. They’re like, okay, well, [00:17:00] what can you do to stand out? And then what do you do to kind of nurture those relationships over time?
Because a, probably a pretty common scenario is they don’t have anything right now or anything that you’re interested in, but maybe they will down the line. And so talk about kind of what you do to build a relationship and then what you do to maintain it.
Shawn: Yeah. So you’re a hundred percent correct.
They’re getting those calls. Every day, right? Twice a day, five times a day, Hey, show me your best deal. Like w why would they do that? You know, just because Joe Schmo, you, you called them up. No. So yeah, you need, you need to, you need to stand out and what’s worked for me is I usually have a kind of a three-prong approach.
I’ll, I’ll send an introductory email that states like, Hey, I invest in this market. This is what my team and I are looking for. I attach my credibility kit, which is. An overview of what we’ve done, what we’re looking for. Just so there’s some credibility that we’re, we’re actually legitimate. Um, and then I’ll pick up the phone and call them to, [00:18:00] and, and what I want to do with that is obviously introduce myself, you know, tell them what we’re looking for again, but then have them talk because people love to talk about themselves, ask about their personal life.
And you’re really here just trying to find a personal connection. So, you know, do they like to golf? Maybe you like to golf? Are they a skier? Do you like to ski so on and so forth? Um, cause you just want to build that personal connection. And, and I try to spend most of my conversation with these guys and gals, just talking about personal stuff, not even business, obviously you get to that business point.
Cause that’s what you’re all there for, but it just a way to build that personal relationship. And then what I do since I don’t live in the markets, I say, Hey, I’m flying down on this date. Can we grab a coffee? And then assuming they say yes, get on that plane and you get down there. And, and they’re, they’re generally very impressed if that’s the reason you’re there I’d want one guy asked me, it’s like, so why, why are you in town?
You got plans. You going out this weekend, here, you visiting. I’m like, no, I’m here to see [00:19:00] you. I’m getting on a plane later tonight to go back home. And that, it means a lot to them because like you said, Mike, they’re getting emails and calls all day long, but you actually showed up. What I’ll also do sometimes if I, if I don’t get that type of, you know, conversation right out of the gate, maybe I haven’t been able to ask to get coffee.
I’ll send them a star Starbucks gift card saying, Hey, coffee’s on me this time. And next time when we meet in person, and then that seems to work too. Cause that gets their attention.
Mike: It’s rare. I mean, this world of like social media and we’re all connected that nobody has real connections. They’re just like, those relationships are way more shallow.
Right? People say things, but they’re kind of shallow behind those words. So as to helps you stand out,
Shawn: Yeah. It’s no, it’s really cool. And so like for instance, the deal that, uh, you know, Mike and our business partners on, I, I just played golf with that broker. Was it beginning of December? Um, and he just, he just had a [00:20:00] kid, so, and he’s a, he’s a big Braves fan.
So I sent him, you know, a Braves one. And, you know, we were on the course, just having a great time. And that’s, that’s what it’s about. You know, I want to, I want to do business with people. I like, and I know he wants to do business with people he likes and, and because of all that, once you actually perform and close on a deal, they know you’re legit.
You know, you you’ve got them paid because a broker beats, what. You know, now he’s sending me stuff. Like you mentioned like a pocket listing before it goes to market. So I get first look, I know there’s, you know, there’s a bunch of other people looking to, but it’s still better than before it hits market.
Mike: Yeah. Talk about, um, what do you do to nurture those relations? Maybe even talk about some systems you might use. We use a lot of different CRMs and things like that to track, but as you’re building relationships, a lot of those things are invaluable to remember. Yeah. Some of the key finer details that you might be maybe forgot, or like a bird, certainly a birthday, or they like the Braves or whatever it might be like, what, is there a [00:21:00] system that you use and kind of, what’s a systematic approach to making sure that, because a lot of people I’ve found they’ll go do some activity, like one time and then they just kind of, you know, it gets hard.
It gets it’s easy. It’s easy to know. Nurture a relationship if you’re not getting anything out of it. Um, but you know that if you do that right, that you’ll obviously stand out, but maybe talk a little about how you kind of nurture those over time and how you.
Shawn: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it’s not who, you know, it’s it’s who knows you and for people that know you, you need to stay top of mind.
So you’re, you’re a hundred percent correct on this. And, and what we do is there’s a couple of things. So we, yeah, we use active campaign and Podio as, uh, as our two, like CRM and email campaign software. So we, we track birthdays for the brokers. Um, obviously if, if they’re like a, a sports fan, what team they like, or if they like golf and we’ll always kind of curate our, you know, how we’d reach out around that.
Um, so for instance, the broker, you know, [00:22:00] just had, had a kid. So I sent him that Braves, onesy, um, golf, you send them, you know, some pro V ones. And also, um, we, so I sent what I usually do. It’s my hometown. I even sent this to Mike, um, my, in my hometown, there’s this handmade glass company. So they blow glass mate, you know, drink ware.
And I like to personally brand it with their stuff and send it to them. So for like Mike, I sent him a old fashioned high ball glass. With the investor fuel logo on it. So for a broker, you know, they usually don’t have their own logo. So I’ll either do their name, their initials or something that’s meaningful to them and send it to them, just thanking them for all that they do.
And that type of stuff goes, what I’ve seen goes a really long way. Obviously it feels good to do, but yeah, it just, it just keeps building that relationship. And the key is just to stay top of mind. And then, like I said, that whole Starbucks card, like I’ll even send that still. Even, [00:23:00] even if we’ve done deals before I just randomly send it like, Hey, I appreciate what you do.
Like coffee on me, just so you’re staying top of mind.
Mike: No. That’s cool. That glass was a great gift. Thank you. I I’m at the office now. I wish I would have brought it in. I took it home. I drank my alcohol at home. Not at all. That’s what I’m trying to say here. Uh, but no, that was, that was a really cool gift.
And it was, it was thoughtful too, right? I mean, I think, um, we do a lot of that stuff with the best of fuel. We try to do thoughtful gifts and things like that because, um, you know, it’s just people remember that. Right. And we try to, you know, Just do cool things. That’s just kind of on typical. So thank you for that.
Yeah. And I do want to do more deals with you,
Shawn: my friend, by the way. So no question about that.
Mike: so maybe in the vein of, uh, we just talked about investor fuel here, so you’ve been a member of our cashflow groupers or multi-family investment group. Uh, we have a meeting coming up here in just a couple of weeks, which excited about.
And Corey park, Corey Peterson’s [00:24:00] business partner with him on a bunch of deals. And he’s actually a partner with me in investor fuel and kind of follow, uh, leads this group that you’re a part of. So would you mind just sharing your thoughts? Uh, give a little testimonial maybe for your experience for the investor fuel cashflow
Yeah. So investor fuel has been a game changer for me and my business for sure. Corey Peterson. Very good friend of both of ours meant mentor to me on the apartments that multifamily apartment side and Corey originally had that his own like kahuna board boardroom mastermind, and then he transferred over to investor fuel and yeah, it’s just been amazing.
Amazing. What Corey started has just been, has just grown, um, like Mike structure, you know, the infrastructure of investor fuel has just a little. Our group to just like flourish and, um, I’m really happy for the, the move. And like I was telling Mike, before we got on here is I just love the people that are in this group.
The, that the personalities atmosphere it’s, [00:25:00] everyone comes from a place of, you know, giving and wanting to add value. There’s no one up on stage, like pumping their chest, saying, look, look what I’ve done. Look out great. That’s the furthest thing from what investor fuel is. And that’s what gets me excited to come every time.
And then once we’re there, it, literally people want to see you exceed, you know, they’re, they’re there to help you with any problem you may have in your business. If they have an answer, they’re going to give it to you. Um, and then also the fact that we were talking about this too, the cool thing about the cashflow group and the multi-family side.
Bigger that you can, you can partner with people cause there’s more to go around. So that’s what makes it really cool. Everyone in that room could potentially be your partner on the next deal. It’s.
Mike: Yeah. That’s awesome. Thanks. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I think, um, it’s cool because there are people in there that have partnered on a bunch of either help each other, raise money, um, helping each other, you know, find deals or whatever.
So there’s a lot of like the, the multi-family side, the large multi-family side is [00:26:00] very conducive to kind of team-based where a lot of people can be involved in add value, which is really cool. So honestly, I I’m, I’m excited to do more deals with you and more deals with other people in the group. And, uh, it’s not just, um, You know, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s fun stuff.
It’s a way to do what we all want to do, which was create more cashflow, create legacy, all those things that we get to do with people that we’ve committed to being around. And we’re, we’re there on purpose. Right? We chose that family to be a part of that. We didn’t, you know, we weren’t forced to get.
Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. My friend. Well, Hey folks want to connect with you, whether they’re looking to do deals, they’re looking to learn more about some of the deals you’re working on. Any of those things that you have a podcast as well. Like how do people connect with you to learn more about what you’ve got going on?
Shawn: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. So yeah. Put my podcast and multifamily money. Um, it’s on all the normal, you know, streaming services, Spotify, apple podcasts, Google podcasts, all of them. Um, so yeah. Learn more about what we do and how we do it on there. And then [00:27:00] where I’m most active is Instagram. And my handle is at Shawna winds.
That’s S H a w N O w I N S. And then our website is Greenbrier cg.com stands for Greenbrier cap, Greenbrier capital group. So yeah, you can schedule a time to talk on there or just reach out. And I’m always on Instagram. I love talking real estate. So yeah, feel free to reach
Mike: out that. Awesome. We will add the links down below in the show notes too.
If anybody missed it, just make sure you, if you’re driving or something, you need to get that down. Make sure you check out the show notes on investor fuel.com and uh, we’ll add links as well. So awesome, man. Well, Hey, thanks for sharing some time with us today, getting to know you a little bit better and helping us understand how you find.
Shawn: Hey, Mike. Thanks for having me. It’s been a real honor and I look forward to seeing in a couple of weeks.
Mike: Absolutely. But I appreciate ya everybody. If you, if you haven’t yet checked out investor fuel, whether you’re a single family investor or a multi-family investor, even just go to Vestra fuel.com, you can learn more, schedule a call to talk with us and see if you might be a fit to join.
One of our groups. We have an amazing [00:28:00] mastermind of people that are big givers. Like Sean said, helping each other out, whether you’re in single family or multi. And if you, if that resonates with you, we’d love to talk. So the investor fuel.com to learn more until then see you on the next
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Shawn: started.[00:29:00] .