Unlocking Homeownership: Jennifer Butcher’s 24-Year Journey in Real Estate

Dylan Silver (00:02.37)
Hey folks, welcome back to the show. Today on the podcast, our guest is a top producer for a mortgage team out in Minneapolis, Minnesota. 23 years of experience. She has her own podcast. She talks money and loves educating others on building wealth. Jennifer Butcher, welcome to the show.

Jennifer Butcher (00:23.856)
thanks for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

Dylan Silver (00:26.848)
It’s great to have you, Jennifer. You know, I always like to start off at the top by asking folks how they got into the real estate space.

Jennifer Butcher (00:35.416)
Wow, that feels like a long time ago. I’m aging myself, but I honestly, I was doing outside business to business sales, driving like 100 miles a day between my house and my territory. And it was the best sales foundation I probably could have ever asked for. But my husband, not at the time, but boyfriend at the time, got into the mortgage space.

And again, 24 years ago, so at the very beginning of like interest rates starting to come down the first time and huge refib business going on. And after about a year of doing what I was doing, I would hear him talking at night to clients about saving money, the opportunity to buy a house, like all of these things that were making a huge impact on like the direct consumer. And I was like, that sounds way more fun than what I’m doing. So a year later, there was an opening at his.

the company he was working at, which is still the company we work for today. And I thought it was crazy, but we joined forces and here we are almost 24 years later, still running a successful mortgage team.

Dylan Silver (01:39.042)
You know, I think that’s super rare to be in the mortgage space for that period of time. And frankly, because of so many things that have happened in the mortgage space that tend to wipe things out for people or they have to shift their pivot or move to a different. so weathering the storms, right? You’ve been a now full cycle real estate operator in the mortgage space. What, what were the, the obstacles like getting through some of those tough times? I mean, of course you’ve got

2008, you’ve got post COVID and probably a couple other in between. How’d you get through those times? And then what was it like navigating through those times?

Jennifer Butcher (02:17.882)
Well, I do give my husband a lot of credit because he is the one that would remind me on a very regular basis. This is a marathon, not a race, John. So fortunately, and this is what I kind of teach so many of my listeners on my podcast is one of the things that I give credit to our success now was the fact that we live below our means for as long as we did.

So while other people in the mortgage space, while things were going crazy and everybody’s making a ton of money, we’re buying these huge houses and all of these cars. We stayed in our very modest town home and kept cars that we had driven for 10 years. And you know what I mean? We just stockpiled money. We invested in real estate. We did those things. And that’s a huge part of why we are as successful as we are today. So yeah, him reminding me it’s a marathon, not a race, staying conservative, and then having the ability to

pivot and look forward of like, okay, here’s what’s going on now and what’s making this market difficult. in that, like, who can we help in this market? Or where can we, you know, where can we pivot to, to grab more business and help people? And we’ve been able to do that and remain successful.

Dylan Silver (03:13.518)
Yeah.

Dylan Silver (03:31.758)
You talk about pivoting and I think there’s a couple things that that I would say are Hallmarks of real estate operators who’ve been doing it for some time first is problem solving and then probably one be right under that is being able to adapt and pivot which can be terrifying because if you’re doing one thing and then this other thing seems like it’s on the other side of the road or across the bridge and you’re like I don’t really know if I Want to get in but into that or maybe this is completely different

but having the ability to do so is really what’s going to keep people afloat or, you know, keep their business above water.

Jennifer Butcher (04:07.737)
Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s a big part of why we’ve been successful is to think outside the box and not just for ourselves, but for our clients too. Right. Like if they come up to us with a problem or someone can’t necessarily afford to buy a house, like how can we get creative to help you accomplish this goal? So that’s definitely one of our strengths is thinking outside of the box. And how can we put this puzzle together to make it work versus just being told no or or failing?

Dylan Silver (04:37.474)
You know, I think a lot of times and specifically I’d say in the lending space, people will go to the lender and then they’ll get turned down. Many cases, young people who don’t have bad credit, but they just don’t have a lot of credit. Right. And I think that’s so disheartening. I’ve been that young person, right. And you think, man, I went to this person and they said, I can’t get a house while I guess I’m going to continue renting for a while. But I think in talking with you briefly before the podcast, you’ve encountered these situations.

quite often and have helped people in some really inspiring ways to get property when maybe they wouldn’t have had a chance and now they’ve grown actually a business out of that.

Jennifer Butcher (05:14.275)
Yeah, absolutely. mean, I had a young two young friends that were referred to me each looking to buy their own properties. They were in their early 20s. They didn’t quite qualify on their own. So I said, OK, let’s get creative. Sometimes it’s about having difficult conversations with people that they think they’re going down this path. Right. But I’m like, hey, wait a minute. But if we go this way first, right, then here’s where you might end up later on. And so it’s just opening up.

the thought process to that. So these guys wanted to buy their own house. said, hey, what if you pull your stuff together, put your money together? They ended up buying a four unit property living in one unit. So squeezed into one, you know, super friendly unit. I’m like, does make it work for 12 months. Do what you have to do. The rent on the three other units basically paid their mortgage. So then that whole 15 months that they did stay there, they were able to stockpile and save money to then go off and each buy their own duplex. So

Within a three and a half, four year period of time, these guys were in their mid twenties and now own a couple plus million dollars worth of real estate when initially if somebody just looked at each of them wanting to buy a house, they would have been turned down and own nothing. So you have to get creative.

Dylan Silver (06:22.51)
couldn’t qualify.

Dylan Silver (06:27.926)
Now, when I think about that story that that makes me think about just how many young people are probably facing a similar situation, you know, the I mean, of course, real estate isn’t getting any cheaper in most areas. But then also, I would say there’s this kind of, I want to say discouraging impact that you get from well, you can’t qualify. Well, now you got to save up a bunch of money. Well, now you’ve renting and renting is pretty expensive. So

I’m just gonna rent. I’m not even gonna think about owning a place, because it’s just, saving many, I’m not saving so much money, so let me just stick this out and tough it out. You mentioned, Jennifer, before hopping on, that really, if you can find a way to house hack and get into homes sooner rather than later, that that is really a huge indicator of how much wealth you’re gonna have long term.

Jennifer Butcher (07:18.295)
Yeah. And you know what? I put it into this perspective when I’m talking to a first time home buyer and this is like really eye opening for them. So we do the math, right? Because that’s what I am. I’m a math nerd. So you’re paying rent. If you’re paying, you know, two thousand dollars a month in rent over the course of X number of years, that adds up to a lot of money. You know, five years down the road, you’re out that much money and you are no further ahead. You just paid your landlord, right? Like you just help them make money.

But if you were to buy real estate, even if you have to let go of the Instagram and the Facebook images of what friends are maybe buying, and maybe we have to buy a much smaller property, or maybe we have to start out in a condo, like reality check, you’re probably living in a five, 600 square foot apartment right now. So like if you get a little bit bigger of a house, you’re still making an improvement. And if that property were to appreciate over the next three years and you show them.

Dylan Silver (08:03.171)
now.

Jennifer Butcher (08:11.865)
how much money, wealth they have built up in appreciation and paying down their mortgage. And then you put it into the perspective of, just did this for someone. was like a $300,000 house example. And in a few, three, four year period of time, they were gonna have almost $60,000 in equity. So it was about $20,000 a year. I’m like, what part-time job can you get that’s gonna pay you an extra 20K this year for doing absolutely nothing except living where you have to live?

Dylan Silver (08:42.036)
Yeah, the thing.

Jennifer Butcher (08:43.095)
And then they’re like, yeah, you’re right. And then it kind of brings the reality of like renting versus owning. Like, and renting is for some people, right? Like if you move around for jobs or you’re not quite stable yet, that’s, there’s a time and a place for renting. But I always tell people the minute that you’re stable enough and you’re able to buy real estate, it’s literally like having a second job that’s going to make you money without really doing anything.

Dylan Silver (09:08.376)
You know, talking about this idea of maybe looking at some alternative or maybe smaller options, I’m actually thinking about my experience when I was turned down for a mortgage in my early 20s. And I’m wondering, you know, I wish that person would have suggested to me some of these other options, right. But I think oftentimes people will go because they just don’t know I just didn’t know. I went to a realtor, the realtor sent me off to a loan officer.

loan officer said, well, you don’t have established credit, so you need to work on this boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. But no one ever suggested to me like, hey, look at condos, or maybe you’re looking at this area. Maybe if you look outside, you could potentially look over here, or hey, you know, there’s seller financing, which potentially you might take a look at. There’s a couple homes that I’ve seen, you know, listed on the MLS and so on and so forth. How have you managed to kind of work through that situation? Because of course,

you’re not opening the doors for people, you’re handling the lending side. So how have you managed to interface with the agents who are, you their direct point of contact in many cases?

Jennifer Butcher (10:07.545)
Yeah.

Jennifer Butcher (10:13.773)
Well, I start, I mean, I start by asking the client a lot of questions. And I think that is the difference between, you know, online lenders and people that want a quick streamline, fill out an application and get an answer to working with somebody who’s actually an advisor and working as a consultant. ask a lot of questions up front. And if like I’m working with a real estate agent, they send me something and I don’t think that they can qualify on their own. Then maybe we explore other options. Is there possibly somebody you can live with and partner up with to do this for a short period of time?

Is there maybe and we’re careful about this because I don’t always recommend co-signing, but is there a parent that would be willing to co-sign for you for especially again? And we’re very careful to recommend that depending on the market. But in this market, we expect rates to come down. They’re most likely refinancing within a couple of years. It’s probably a great time to be a co-signer, right? Because in a couple of years, hopefully you can get off the mortgage anyways. But we asked a lot of questions and then I follow up with the agent and say, hey, these guys were going to be they can’t do it this way.

but we’ve asked some questions and we’ve found a way that they can do it this way. know, can you find properties like this or you know what I mean? And then most agents, I mean, almost all agents are like, wow. And that’s how I build a lot of my business and gain referral partners is because not everybody is finding solutions like that for their clients. Our job is to help our agents, partners make as much money as possible. So I consider it my job to find it a way to make it work no matter what.

Dylan Silver (11:21.517)
down.

Jennifer Butcher (11:41.311)
And so we have to get creative to do that.

Dylan Silver (11:44.184)
I want to get a little granular here, Jennifer, maybe give away some of the gold, but not all the gold. So if someone, you know, comes to younger, similar situation, not established credit, maybe recent college graduate, but just not not established credit, and they don’t have 20 % down or however much they might need for the highest level for traditional right 10, 10, 20%, wherever it is. And maybe you say, Hey, look at cosigning or look at maybe condos. And they realize, okay, I’ve got to reset my my expectations here a bit.

I’m thinking in my head that this is relative, not only is this uncommon, most lenders are not pivoting to, you know, a condo acquisition or they’re not pivoting to a duplex. And so for you to be able to or a quadplex for you to be able to give those options to them probably is unique on all sides as far as them hearing it. Like they probably haven’t heard anybody say, let me look at condo. Let me look at duplex.

And then from the Realtors perspective, they went and said, hey, they’re looking at this home in this area of Minneapolis or so on and so forth. And then they get back and response, hey, let’s look at, you know, a fourplex or let’s look at a condo. That’s gotta be surprising for everyone in a good way, right?

Jennifer Butcher (12:58.797)
Yeah, I think so. I think it’s just look, I’ve been doing this almost 24 years, right? So at this point in my career, I have helped people from their first home to like buying retirement homes. So I’ve seen the full picture of it. And so it’s easy. And a lot of lenders when they’re in the business this long, they don’t, you know, they get to a point where they don’t really want to help first time home buyers or they don’t, you know, I mean, we don’t mind getting our hands dirty. I think I treat every client the same.

So if that means we have to get a little dirty and use like a down payment assist, I shouldn’t call it dirty, but they’re not always easy loans, right? But use some down payment assistance. I mean, I’ve helped people buy a house with as little as a thousand dollars out of their pocket and we don’t make money on those, right? They’re not, they’re not great products for us, but I care about the client and it’s my job to help them build as much wealth as possible. And if it means the difference between getting in a house and not getting in a house.

Dylan Silver (13:34.606)
you

Jennifer Butcher (13:53.006)
that’s what we have to focus on. And our partners work with us because they know that. And so sometimes that requires them to pivot as well and say, hey, I know you were looking in this area, but we need to shift gears. And now we’re to go look over at this area or this type of property. You know, are you familiar with that or can you help them with that? And people are always open to it. I mean, my agents are great that we work with and

And if maybe a buyer works with an agent I haven’t worked with before, now all of a sudden they have a new appreciation for someone who’s willing to look at something differently just to find a way to make it work.

Dylan Silver (14:23.436)
You know, when you mentioned that, think I forget who told me this when I was just starting out in wholesale before I before I had a real estate license. Real estate is a contact sport. So if you’re not out there, you know, you might not get a deal. And so we know when I was knocking doors and when I was calling foreclosures and when I was going into houses that had the electricity shut off and all types of distress, it really made me aware that like these HGTV level flips that people are seeing, typically they’re they’re they’re getting

Jennifer Butcher (14:36.249)
Right.

Dylan Silver (14:52.792)
these deals from potentially, you know, difficult situations like economic, financial distress, emotional distress, probate, know, death. These are things. And then they make this beautiful thing at the end, which looks incredible turned into an Airbnb or what have you. But the beginning is not always, not always simple or easy. I want to ask you about some of those deals where you’ve really gone above and beyond to help people.

My inclination in thinking is, well, if they were helped to such a great degree, then when they’re looking at maybe buying another home down the road, whenever that is, that they’re of course gonna be inclined to come back and ask you to assist them again.

Jennifer Butcher (15:37.05)
yeah. And I mean, that’s a huge part of our success over 24 years is we primarily work by referral only. We don’t take leads. We don’t, you know what I mean? Like we’re by referral only. meet with new people every week just to make sure I’m out in front of people and that if nothing else, don’t, realtor partners don’t send me their business. They know my name so that when they receive a pre-approval letter from me, they know it’s solid. And yep, Jennifer knows what they, her team knows what they’re doing. They’re going to take care of people.

And we work really hard to stay in front of our clients because we’ve been in the business so long. Like every Thursday I’m spending two hours calling my past database, doing annual mortgage reviews to help them make sure they’re managing that debt correctly. They’re in the best position that they can be in and see if there’s any life changes that have come about that we can help them with. Maybe now they have kids. I mean, my favorite clients, I have a client who has like six kids. I’ve done multiple loans for him. I’ve done multiple loans for every one of his kids over the years. And it’s so fun.

to have that experience and I’m so grateful that my clients see that value that they would come back to me. But it is, there’s those transactions that stand out. I know a couple I helped that purchased a home that was almost gutted. Like someone was trying to do a rehab on it, ran out of money, whatever they sold it. was, they were first time home buyers at the time. So was kind of a scary like, are we going to get into this? We wrote a rehab loan on it.

Dylan Silver (16:57.07)
you

Jennifer Butcher (17:00.665)
Again, not something that a lot of lenders love to do, but it was a FHA 203K loan, got him like $130,000 for the whole rehab. mean, they did a total makeover on this house. And it’s one of my best stories because the equity they had when we did like a three year check in with them was insane. Like they like tripled their money. And then they were able to take that, sell that property.

and they bought their dream house. and without that starter and having the guts and somebody that was willing to assure them, we’re going to you can do this, right? We’re going to get you the right contractors. It’s going to be messy, but you’re going to be able to do this. They never would have been able to have that dream house speak as quickly as they did anyway. So they’re clients for life, right? Because we helped them pave that path.

Dylan Silver (17:37.293)
No.

Dylan Silver (17:51.128)
So this was a traditional you can I didn’t even know you could do is you can get traditional mortgages with rehab tied into it.

Jennifer Butcher (17:57.72)
Yeah. So conventional and FHA have options where you can purchase the property and build in the rehab costs. So the tough part about it is that you have to make all the decisions up front. Right. And you have to use a contractor like they’re pretty hard set on like unless you’re a painter by trade, you are not doing the painting on the property. So you have to give up a little bit of control and let a general contractor handle it. But you get the bids up front and then.

The appraisal is done on the property, assuming all of the work is complete. So the house is appraised as if everything is done. And then you get the money to buy the house plus all of the rehab work, less just the down payment, the minimum down payment on it all. It’s very good product.

Dylan Silver (18:38.766)
That is incredible. I want to learn more about this. Jennifer, are you specific to out there in Minneapolis or are you across states? Where are you lending at?

Jennifer Butcher (18:48.899)
So I’m personally licensed in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, and Florida, and South Dakota. But our company has, work, very close with many, many loan officers within our company. And so we basically can lend in almost all 50 states, less like I think Alaska. So yeah, we can help people across the whole US.

Dylan Silver (19:11.17)
We are coming up on time here, Jennifer. Where can folks go if they want to learn more about your business or get in contact with you or have questions about getting funding for a deal they’re looking at or a property they’re looking at?

Jennifer Butcher (19:23.831)
Yes, absolutely. Best place to find me where I am most often is on Instagram at Jennifer Butcher Mortgage. I post a ton of educational content there on real estate, financing and building wealth. And then the podcast, She Talks Money, is on all major podcast platforms. So we share a lot of information about building wealth through real estate and all kinds of multiple streams of income there.

Dylan Silver (19:51.64)
Jennifer, thank you for coming on the show here today.

Jennifer Butcher (19:54.532)
Thanks for having me.