Unlock Financial Freedom: From Balayage To Ballin’ Up With Real Estate Investing

Stephen S. (00:04.097)
Welcome to the show where we interview the nation’s leading real estate entrepreneurs and welcome back if you’ve been with us before. This is your host, Stephen Schmidt of the Real Estate Pros podcast. I’m here today with Chris Maddox and today we are going to be talking about everything real estate. The fix and flips that he has been doing as well as some other strategies that Chris is getting into.

He has an incredible background and he basically has gone from balayage to balling out in real estate. So we’re going to get into it here. Chris, thanks for being here. Just to remind all of you listeners, at Investor Fuel, we help real estate entrepreneurs, service providers, and real estate entrepreneurs, 2 to 5X their businesses to allow them to build the businesses they’ve always wanted, to allow them to live the lives they’ve always dreamed of. That being said, Chris, welcome to the show.

Chris Maddox (00:55.05)
What’s up?

Stephen S. (00:56.629)
Hey man, super excited to have you here today. Just for all of our listeners, I know I gave you an intro there which led to probably some questions of, for some people, what is balayage? And for other people, how did you go from that to real estate? So tell us a little bit about your background, what’s got you into real estate originally?

Chris Maddox (01:15.769)
yeah, for sure. Okay, so when I was early 20s, I got into a hair salon business.

And know, went to college, I was there for a couple of years. I didn’t graduate because it just, it just wasn’t for me. I’m not like anti college, but you know, I just think it’s not the road for everybody. And so, I ended up, the short version is I ended up in the salon world. And when I started working there, I was like, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here, but you know, it was, it was creative. It was fun. You know, the people were wild. And so, you know, I’m kind of a mix of creative and structured personality. And so I’ve been in that for like,

like 30 years and then about five years ago, my path was kind of leading me away from that and into something different. Being on the other side of the age spectrum, I’m 54 now, I started thinking about,

you know, like not having to show up at the job, you know, to make the money. And so I started learning about, you know, working with private lenders. That was kind of the hook for me and, being able to, do, you know, I guess kind of partner with them and do these deals. And over my life, I’ve, I’ve built and renovated, you know, a lot of houses, like that I’ve lived in. And so the idea of, investing in real estate, flipping houses, tearing things up and changing stuff didn’t really scare me. was like, that sounds pretty awesome. And so.

So I dipped into that and started learning about it. And then I’m a big action taker. And so when I had a little information, I just jumped on it and started going.

Stephen S. (02:49.569)
Absolutely. That’s awesome, man. So one of the things we talked about previous to Hopping here on to the actual recording is Is is risk tolerance like you seem like you’re a very risk tolerant person. What is it that really made you? Want to just get started and get going

Chris Maddox (03:09.474)
Yeah, no problem. So I am for sure, I’m for sure risk tolerant. think that, you know, for me, like we know everything has been done, you know, so I’m about connecting to those.

those people and those systems and processes and just following along. Like I’m good at like seeing and then just putting that into play. And I know it’s not like perfect, but you you, have to get going. And so I don’t, I don’t want to spend a lot of time figuring things out. So I’m more about the who than the how.

you know, if that makes sense. so like, I’m like, I’m part of two different masterminds. and so there are people that flip, you know, hundreds of houses a year. And I was like, okay, I mean, you can’t just do that, you know, like off the cusp, you got to know what you’re doing. And so, you know, it boils down to systems and processes, you know, to be able to do things over and over again, you know, and so like, I, I, I pay for them, you know, the, masterminds that they’re like yearly programs and I’m okay with

that because to me I’m looking at it more of worth versus cost you know so it’s saved me more than I have spent on them and they’re not cheap by any means but still you know I’m kind of like what’s the value in where my money is going you know and so to be able to connect to those people and you know talk to them one-on-one and and get get all get into all the resources that they use to be able to do all those things I mean it it accelerates the learning curve and shortens it you know and so I’m

about the speed and so there’s a cost to that you know so I’m not saying it’s the right way or the only way that’s just that’s just that’s just how I did it that was my way

Stephen S. (04:53.749)
So, I mean, you touched on a really good point there of being in a group of people, which a lot of times in order to get around…

people that are on a higher level than where you’re currently at or where you aspire to, you’ve got to pay to be in those rooms, right? Access isn’t free. There’s no let me buy you lunch and pick your brain anymore, right? So how has being in a mastermind helped you get to where you are now from when you started?

Chris Maddox (05:15.508)
Yeah, right.

Chris Maddox (05:24.236)
Well, so, you know, we get together like quarterly, so four times a year. So at the end of this month, April, like we’re, going to Cancun for a week. And so we usually have one trip where we all are most, most people go. So you’ve got a lot, a lot of time, you know, to hang out and talk to people about their businesses and things like that. And so, you know, it’s not that it’s not that every person you come in contact with is on your path, but you can take bits and pieces, you know, little gold nuggets along the way and you

Stephen S. (05:35.382)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Maddox (05:54.112)
kind of add them to your toolbox, know, so you can use them along the way. And it’s stuff that a lot of times it’s stuff you don’t know that you need. You might not know what questions to ask, but just through the conversations of people that are ahead of you that are doing the things where you’re going.

Stephen S. (05:57.729)
You bet.

Chris Maddox (06:09.356)
You know, you learn all that stuff and you’re like, okay. And then, you know, maybe it’ll apply to your next situation that you come into, you know? So it’s really, you’re really, you know, you’re kind of, it’s like your education, you know? And you pay for education, you know? So that’s, mean, to me, that’s like the biggest part, you know, is making all those connections.

Stephen S. (06:29.131)
You got, well, and you know, that’s big thing with like, you know, even college nowadays. I like how you mentioned the education piece because it’s like, really, unless you’re going for a high level skill to college these days, you’re really paying for relationships if you can go build them, if that’s why you go, right? And it’s interesting how we grow up in a world that’s tailored towards you go to school for X amount of years, you get a specialty, then you get out and then education stops.

Chris Maddox (06:46.157)
Yeah.

Stephen S. (06:58.665)
Right. You no longer have to pay to get into rooms with people. You no longer have to pay for education. But it’s it’s one of those things I love that you made that point because ultimately what you are doing is is furthering your ability to earn and and become a better human being even at the same time along with that while also aligning yourself with people that are on the same journey. Maybe not in the same capacity of size that you would like to be or whatever that might be. But you’re still on the journey with other people having community, which we all crave as human beings. Right.

Chris Maddox (07:28.035)
Mm-hmm.

Stephen S. (07:29.279)
So now, are some mistakes like for somebody that’s like just getting started? What are some mistakes you see people make and what advice would you give to somebody just getting started?

Chris Maddox (07:40.516)
so a big one would be like taking too long to take action. Like we were talking in the beginning, like definitely do podcasts. Definitely read the books. Definitely go to your local Rio groups and meet people, you know, I mean, do all those things, but you know, I like.

my local RIA group is really active where I live here in Greenville. And so the first, I don’t know, say two years or so that I was part of it, just meeting people, you know, along the way and talking to them and seeing them every month, you know, at our meetings. And then I would find out that a lot of them hadn’t even done their first deal yet. And I was like, what? It blew my, it blew my, like they knew so much stuff. Like I had good conversation with them.

but they hadn’t done anything. And so it’s like, what’s the purpose of all the information if you don’t put it to use, you know, whether it’s for yourself or sharing it, which I guess they were sharing it, but you know, they’re talking about all the, all the deal analytics and just, just all of the things, but they hadn’t done anything. And I was, I couldn’t wrap my mind around that man. I was like, what, the heck, you know? So, you know, I would say, get, just get on it, take action, you know, because you’re, you’re not.

you’re not gonna learn enough to be perfect, like ever. So you might as well get into it and go ahead and start making your mistakes. I feel like I wanna make my mistakes quick and early on so I can learn through that so that the next one that I do, I’m better. And so I wanna do all that early, I wanna screw up early, so I’m better faster. Does that make sense?

Stephen S. (09:18.081)
Absolutely Chris with with what you’re saying there, too I think the biggest the biggest piece that people face in the beginning There is the fear of not knowing what they don’t know, right? So for people that are that are failing to take action What is the first step of taking action? Do you think like especially if somebody’s very risk-averse doesn’t know what they’re doing scared They’re gonna get themselves into a bind like where would you recommend them starting with that?

Chris Maddox (09:29.57)
Yeah, for sure.

Chris Maddox (09:48.428)
Yeah. Okay. So first of all, think of us, think of a scale. You need to take your fear of failure on one side of that scale and you need to take your want to succeed on the other one. Now, if your fear outweighs, know, your want good luck. mean, you have, you have to inside want to do better than, than you are afraid. Does that make sense? So

Stephen S. (10:14.962)
Absolutely.

Chris Maddox (10:15.956)
If it’s a huge hang up, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, moving forward, your action taking, then I would say a great thing to do would be to find someone who was doing the things that you want to do and maybe partner with them. You know, what, what kind of value can you add to help that person out?

And that way you at least get some learning, some on hand learning experience. Maybe you can walk, you know, go through a project with them, you know, maybe you have, maybe you’ve got a little bit of money you can put into the project with them, you know? and then they’ll give you a little cut, you know, at the other side or, or something. If you have time on your hands, you know, you can work with them. Maybe they’re short on time. Maybe you can do errands, maybe you can do some phone calls, maybe, know, whatever, sweat equity you might could put in, you know,

I mean you have to look at it like education. Whatever you have, there’s something that you can add to help another person out. You always want to help someone else get what they want and then in return they’ll help you at some point down the road. So that’s probably the first thing that comes to mind for me.

Stephen S. (11:23.041)
Absolutely.

Stephen S. (11:27.585)
What do think people should look for in finding a partner? What do you think people should be looking for in a partner? Especially when they’re new, don’t know what they don’t know. And what I mean by this, I wanna really clearly define this so it’s a complex, complex but well thought out question. Because there’s a lot of people in this business, as you and I both know too, that are sharks.

Chris Maddox (11:34.225)
Yeah.

Chris Maddox (11:44.504)
Mm-hmm.

Stephen S. (11:50.805)
that are snakes that are looking for a sucker to be able to do their will and and and that they are able to get one over on and and sometimes that’s the cost of being new and doing something is you do have to pay for that. But how if you were somebody that’s brand new looking to try to find a partner what are some characteristics qualities etc that you would look for in somebody to do deals with that you would then offer maybe even to do a deal or two for like nothing just to learn.

Chris Maddox (12:17.622)
Yeah, for sure.

I mean, I would suggest vetting someone a little bit, you know, first of all, like, I mean, like you’re saying, like just because someone on the outside looks like, that’s the person that, you know, I want to emulate and I want to partner with. I mean, they may be like, they may be a crappy person, you know, so I would get maybe some references, you know, and talk to some people that have worked with them, done some deals with them, you know, maybe gotten some information from them and just, kind of feel it out a little bit. So that’s the first thing that I would say.

as far as characteristics that I look for you know there’s kind of some different answers to this for partnering purposes generally you want you know sort of an opposite skill set so like if you’re great with the deal finding side

you know, but you’re not good with like finding the money side, then you know, you might want to, you know, that would be like your offset. You know, if it’s just strictly like learning, then

You know, I would not be too broad. like for me, like when I started, like all of us, probably you get, you know, you get so overwhelmed because there’s so many avenues that you can go to create a finance flipping rentals, you know, there’s multifamily, there’s all this stuff to learn about. Like you need to pick, I think one niche and then, and, kind of stick there for a little while. You know, you need to give a little, you need to give it a little time, you know, to see if, if you like it, if it makes sense, you know, things like that, and then go to something different.

Chris Maddox (13:51.882)
you know, or add to it. So I would specifically find a person that does that, that thing, you know, and so to me, you know, if, guess it depends on if you’re a good people person or people reader, you know, like I love getting together with people like in person, you know, cause I feel like,

Stephen S. (14:07.681)
Sure.

Chris Maddox (14:13.194)
on the phone or you know text messages, social media, all that stuff. You don’t get the full vibe you know when you’re sitting next to someone you know body language, how they move around, how you interact together, all that like weighs in a lot on decisions you know a lot heavier than just being on the phone you know. I mean even like what we’re doing you know is is better than like emailing back and forth or whatever you know. I definitely I’m just I like I like face to face you know.

Stephen S. (14:20.843)
Okay.

Stephen S. (14:36.001)
Right, yeah.

Stephen S. (14:41.609)
I’m the same way, for sure. Yeah, so really vetting somebody, feeling their energy, think is a lot of, to put it in almost like one term of what you’re saying, it’s really feeling the energy of another person too, right?

Chris Maddox (14:53.198)
Yeah, I mean, you know, maybe because my background is dealing with people, you know, like all day every day, you know, like in the salon. That’s probably, it’s funny, like a lot of that skill set has translated over into the real estate world because it’s so like…

Stephen S. (15:01.141)
Yeah, all day every day.

Chris Maddox (15:11.534)
relationship oriented, you know, so like I’m pretty quick to, to be able to say, okay, this person would be awesome to work with, you know, versus the other way where you’re like, they’re a head. You know what mean? Yeah. I mean, so anyway, I mean, like, like you and I have not met before, but I mean, you know, in the first five minutes is kind of like, can vibe with this guy.

Stephen S. (15:14.357)
Hmm.

Stephen S. (15:25.627)
Yeah, totally for sure.

Stephen S. (15:37.749)
You bet. Yeah.

Chris Maddox (15:38.572)
You know, so it’s different. You can kind of feel it out, you know?

Stephen S. (15:41.995)
Certainly, yeah, I mean, it’s easy to get along with people that you align with too. Like know a big one for me personally is if I was looking for a partner and I would set up like an in-person meeting or especially like a phone call or Zoom, like if somebody shows up on time or not.

Chris Maddox (15:57.998)
Yeah

Stephen S. (15:58.101)
That is such a big one for me personally, like especially if we’re getting together in person and it’s like, this is the time set on the calendar. It’s all my calendar. You’ve got a calendar invite, all that. Like if you’re three minutes late, I’m probably already gone. Like, because I already know we’re not in alignment because if you’re there two minutes early, prepared for the time we said we’d get together, awesome, we’re here, you know? But,

Chris Maddox (16:14.018)
Yeah.

Chris Maddox (16:24.278)
Yeah, I’m a time person too, like that for sure. I’m an earliest on time person. If I get there, if I’m like right on time, like today I clicked in, you know, at 11, you know, instead of like a few minutes early, you know, but I’m an early person, you know, like in general, I’m definitely not a late person. So I’m on your page with that for sure. And I think the other thing is, you know, to kind of do a part B answer to that question is your…

Stephen S. (16:29.45)
You bet.

Stephen S. (16:34.944)
Yeah.

Stephen S. (16:41.748)
Right.

I’m with you there.

Stephen S. (16:51.318)
Sure.

Chris Maddox (16:53.59)
you know, you’re, need to, that’s the best way to say this. Like we all have expectations, you know, and so you need to find out, like, I think our expectations, you know, we get disappointed because we put that on, on other people, you know, like they should be just like us, you know? And so when they’re not,

Stephen S. (17:01.003)
Hmm.

Stephen S. (17:11.137)
Sure.

Chris Maddox (17:16.074)
you know, we’re like, you know, mean like, if you find out from the other people, where they’re like, what are your ex? Like, I’m always like, okay, when I’m, when I’m doing private money, you know, for instance, like I find out what the needs and wants and expectations of the other person are.

you know, and then I’ll take that, you know, into like high consideration and then I’ll try to work with them according to that and see if we can come together, you know. So like with the contractor, for instance, you know,

you know, I’ll find out like, what’s realistic for you to send me a bid on this, on this, you know, project, you know, cause in my head, I’m like, need some at the end of the day, but they’re doing stuff, they’re busy. That’s probably not realistic. You know, I mean, if they tell me a week, I’m like, that’s crazy. I’m not waiting around a week. So, you know, so I’m, I’m trying to, I’m trying to get information from them so that I can align my expectations with them so that it’s, more, I’m more realistic. You know, does that make sense?

Stephen S. (18:15.219)
Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Maddox (18:17.046)
So, you you want to find out where the other person is at and try to meet them, you know, and see if it makes sense.

Stephen S. (18:23.509)
Yeah, 100%. With that, tell me a little bit more about the types of deals that you do. It’s mostly single family investing, correct? So tell me a little bit about like, what’s some of the best deals that you’ve gotten yourself into? How are you finding your deals? What are some of those avenues just to maybe help our listeners?

Chris Maddox (18:33.325)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris Maddox (18:43.936)
Yep. So like I have done zero marketing.

Like I just haven’t ever gone down that path. I’m more of a, you know, network person. So I’ve got a couple of agents that I work with who have brought me some deals. You know, I’ve got a couple of wholesalers that I work with that have brought me some deals and I, and I have found some on my own, whether it was, you know, kids just going up and knocking on someone’s door, you know, or, you know, seeing a house that I called on, you know, just things like that, you know, so it’s been kind of a mix, you know, more networking kind of, stuff.

So, you know, but I like, I mean, I like to know people, you know, like the agents that I work with, you know, for instance, I’ve known for a long time and they know what I do. And I’m like, look, bring me a deal. can sell it. So you can make money when we get it. And when we get rid of it, you know, so I try to make it, I try to make it valuable for them too, you know, and wholesalers, you know, the couple that I work with more regularly, you know, like I’ll go with them.

you know, a lot of times if I, if the schedule permits, I’ll go with them because, know, they’re good at the finding the deal side, but they don’t know numbers like I know, you know, because I’ve sat down and I’ll break down the deal with them. You know, I’m like, listen,

This is in I gotta get insurance. I’m paying my lenders, you know the closing costs blah blah blah You know, I’ve got taxes at because it’s income when I flip it I mean I’ll go through it with them so they can understand I’m not just giving them some crappy lowball number under what they’re asking for You know, I go through it. I’m like here are my numbers like I’m super transparent and I’m like this is what I can pay and you can count on it, know I’m gonna close it up in two weeks and we can move on to the next one, you know, but also, you know, I’m like listen if you got some

Stephen S. (20:15.627)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Maddox (20:28.56)
someone else that’ll pay for more or if it doesn’t work, that’s no problem. I want people that I’m in communication with to make money also because if I’m helping them make money, they’re gonna bring, it works back and forth. So I’m not trying to make everything and not share the wealth. I want everyone to do well. But I lay it out there like it is what it is.

Stephen S. (20:41.985)
Be back.

Stephen S. (20:48.961)
Right.

Stephen S. (20:55.137)
So with that being said, because one of the things that you listed on your sheet before we hopped on today was finding consistent deal flow with good margins seems to be one of the challenges that you’ve constantly faced. what are some of the things you’ve done to help with that in the past several years?

Chris Maddox (21:07.372)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Maddox (21:19.662)
I mean, you know, it’s, it’s still tough. You know, I mean, I’m not going to sit here and be like, I’m just, you know, crushing 30 deals a year or whatever. You know, I mean, it’s still, it’s still tough. You know, I’ve got, what are we in April, you know, and I’ve got, you know, I’ve got one on them. I’ve got one on the market that I finished up. I’ve got one under contract and I’ve got two under contract and I’m in this weekend. I’m going to look at three more houses, but that doesn’t mean that I’m going to get them all. You know, I mean, I have the capacity to do multiple houses at

once but I mean it’s sometimes I’ve got you know two or three or four going sometimes it’s nothing for a couple of months you know it’s just it’s a big mix of of kind of what I come across you know and you know I think like I’m not gonna like I’m not the person that is gonna just

get a deal and risk it. Like, I think I can make this, you know, or if my budget’s more, that’s okay. Like I’m, I kind of stick to my guns for the most part. You know, I’m not really gonna, I’m not the person that’s like, well, my rehab budget’s 50. And then I get into it I’m like, you know, if I spend 65, I don’t really care. Like it is what it is. You know what I mean? So I kind of stick to that for safety reasons, you know, obviously security. And I mean, I’m working with someone else’s money, you know?

Stephen S. (22:32.139)
Sure.

Chris Maddox (22:41.266)
to do the deals. And so I’m not going to like I’m risk tolerant, but I’m not going to be an idiot. Like I’m not going to risk all that money and the problems that could come with botching a deal, you know, like that.

Stephen S. (22:55.187)
Right? Yeah, absolutely. So let me let me ask you one more big one and then we’ll start wrapping up with the show here today. But if you had to put yourself back in the shoes of when you got started and like really put yourself in that in that position, but do so with all the knowledge that you’ve gotten over the last five years.

Chris Maddox (23:15.31)
Mm.

Chris Maddox (23:22.626)
Hmm. Hmm.

Stephen S. (23:24.506)
What would you do different and what would you do the same?

Chris Maddox (23:28.846)
So as far as the same, feel like I took as much action as I could, you know, that made sense. like my first year, I…

My first year, I think I flipped eight houses. So that was like right out of the gate. So I mean, I feel pretty proud of that. I mean, I feel like that’s a lot. I joined the masterminds like right out of the gate. That was super helpful, it was expensive. But like I was saying, like, I wanna cut the learning curve down. I wanna minimize my mistakes. And I think you can only do that by engrossing yourself in the right systems and being around the right people to do that. What I would do different,

sure would be like I was super anti hard money I was like I’m not doing hard money that’s crazy it costs more and all that kind of stuff you know like I would only do all private money for each deal you know so you know as you kind of learn more you know strategies like I think if I if I would have if it would have if I would have thought about or learned you know taking the private money

applying it to the hard money like I could have done more quicker you know like instead of having to have $250,000 for the deal you know I could have had you know 50 or 30 or whatever you know I could just take say 10 or 15 percent and work with the hard money so you know like maybe you would make a little less in the deal but you could do more volume so that’s just kind of a personal preference so I think you know if I could do say I could make $20,000 a deal and I could do you know a

deals. That’s like $240,000 right? Just a ballpark number. But if I only did you know six deals and it was all private money and maybe I made 25 that’s only $150,000. So at the end of the day it’s just it’s just about you know adding to your bucket. You know what I mean? So if I can do more deals and I can add a little bit more to the bucket you know by mixing the private and the hard

Stephen S. (25:27.745)
Absolutely.

Chris Maddox (25:35.128)
then that makes sense. doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if the hard money is more expensive. If in the end you’re making more, you know what I mean? But I still have a margin that I work with. Like I’m not going to do it unless I’m at X, you know?

Stephen S. (25:42.183)
Right. Yeah.

Stephen S. (25:48.597)
Yeah, 100%. Well, Chris, thanks for joining us today. We’re so appreciative and grateful that you were here to share your expertise. If anyone wants to learn more about you, what you’re working on, where should they go to connect with you?

Chris Maddox (26:00.57)
man, I talk, I will talk to people on the phone. I’ll zoom with them, social media. I don’t really care. Like I think usually I just connect to people the way that they want to, you know? So, I mean, like my, I just have a.

Stephen S. (26:14.261)
But if they don’t know where to find you, they won’t know how to connect with you and tell you how they want to be connected with. So how would they do that?

Chris Maddox (26:20.302)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, um, my name Chris Maddox. Yeah. You know, I’m in Greenville. That’s my face. It’s just my Facebook page. It’s nothing fancy. It’s just my personal Facebook page. You can, you you can message me. I’ve got a Instagram and it’s, M for my last name and then five one like M 51 R E I for a real estate investor. So, you know, you can Instagram message me, um, email. I mean, you can eat. You want me to my email out there?

Stephen S. (26:48.597)
No, that’s up to you. It’s just where people can reach out to get in touch.

Chris Maddox (26:49.908)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, my email is my last name Maddox investment property at Gmail. So you can email me. mean, whatever. I mean, I love talking to people and I, and I try to give out me I’ll give out information. I’ve got a lot of stuff on my computer resources, like contracts and just all kinds of stuff, you know, that I’ll send off to people just because they need some things, you know, and it’s man, I’m not looking for anything but just, you know, build kind of build up your network and get to know people.

Stephen S. (27:19.649)
Well, thanks for being here Chris. You heard it here first folks. if you take anything away from this, make sure you go and take action first and foremost. But thanks for joining us for today’s episode. Make sure to subscribe and learn more about Investor Fuel and we will see y’all in the next episode. Thanks again, Chris.

Chris Maddox (27:28.194)
Yes.

Chris Maddox (27:37.89)
Yeah, see y’all.