Transform Your Wealth: 5 Outside-the-Box Wholesaling Techniques Revealed

John Harcar (00:01.006)
All right. Hey guys, welcome back to the show. I’m here today with Lisa Rivera and what we’re going to talk about is outside the box investing. Different ideas, maybe different things that we haven’t thought about. remember guys here at Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, real estate entrepreneurs, and even service providers, 2 to 5X their business. And we do that by providing the tools and resources to help build the business they want to build and live the life that they want to live. Lisa.

Welcome to our show. Yeah, I’m super excited to talk about kind of outside the box things. I mean, I think that’s kind of been a trend in our business trying to kind of get away from the norm. But before we get into all that and get into the weeds, kind of tell our audience a little bit about yourself. You know, what got you into real estate? You know, basically how you got here.

Lisa (00:32.204)
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Lisa (00:52.118)
So I’ll try to make it as short as possible because it could be very long. what kind of got me here? I actually, before I became a licensed realtor, I was doing property management for a few different large communities. The largest apartment community I ever ran was a little over 600 units in Fayette, Del Norte, Carolina. Yeah, so.

John Harcar (00:57.026)
Well, we got some time, so go ahead.

John Harcar (01:14.188)
Mmm, wow.

Lisa (01:17.868)
Then I went to a smaller 300, I don’t remember exactly, 300 some odd units and then I became the general manager there. But I just, I got the thought in my head, if I can sell apartments, I can sell real estate. I was really good in sales. I was like, I can sell real estate and make more money. So I ended up getting my license and then the crash happened. So, I should say the last crash happened. But I…

John Harcar (01:38.958)
Mmm.

Lisa (01:44.46)
So I started working with investors. started writing contracts for investors. That was when, you know, the low ball offers, you know, just send a rapid fire bunch of low ball offers. And I started seeing how they were, like the money that they were making, especially the wholesaler side, I decided to go to YouTube university and try to learn wholesaling on my own, which I did, but with a lot of pitfalls. So all these years later, here I am.

John Harcar (02:11.426)
Then that’s funny because, you know, especially being a realtor back in that crash, that had to be difficult, right? And then especially if you’re just getting started, that’s not really it. That’s kind of a defeat of your, I mean, I know you were in property management for a while. So when you got into wholesaling, like what are, you mentioned the pitfalls. What are some of the pitfalls? Like what are the challenges that you face when you’re trying to build that part of your business as opposed to like your real estate side?

Lisa (02:36.758)
So I think one of the biggest pitfalls was not knowing my numbers, not really knowing how much, the proper way to calculate a spread and if it’s a good deal for an end buyer. Those were some of the biggest pitfalls. That was one of the biggest pitfalls. That valuation in general was probably the biggest pitfall.

John Harcar (02:55.404)
Okay. And how did you overcome that?

Lisa (02:58.78)
I started studying more as a realtor to learn how to do my comps. So just learning my comps and you know what I watched a lot of because you know how a lot of gurus these days they do the free you know hey come on and jump on for an hour for free and we’ll teach you this much but then you have to join us to get all of it. So I would watch several podcasts not podcast but several of those little classes.

John Harcar (03:02.03)
Well, and…

John Harcar (03:18.157)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lisa (03:26.41)
and just pick up little tidbits from each one and I just ended up putting it together. Yeah.

John Harcar (03:29.184)
Okay. So how long from when you now at the same time, are you still doing traditional listings?

Lisa (03:36.608)
I was a little bit, but the market was a little bit harder then. Our ARIO listings were keen back then, right? If you got ARIO listings, and then certain banks and financial institutions would choose specific realtors to do all of their ARIO listings. So yeah, I was helping more investors and buyers then, but it was still kind of hard though because everybody was fighting for the deals.

John Harcar (03:40.087)
Yeah.

Yeah.

John Harcar (04:03.138)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. All right, so now you’re going, and how long did it take you to get your first wholesale deal?

Lisa (04:10.556)
a year. About a year. Like from front to back about a year. So I had a few under contract but they kept falling apart because I just I didn’t know what I was doing. I didn’t know what I was doing.

John Harcar (04:12.535)
a year.

John Harcar (04:16.481)
Okay.

John Harcar (04:23.092)
Was it the underwriting part that you think that was the big mishap on the first couple?

Lisa (04:27.968)
I think, yeah, I think it was an underwriting piece. was just, again, not knowing my numbers at all. Just, well, I’m just gonna jump in and do this. And then, well, and there were also other times that I underestimated the numbers thing again, underestimated the repairs.

John Harcar (04:34.275)
Yep.

John Harcar (04:44.29)
The ARV. then okay, the repairs. Did you know, I mean, were you familiar with repair costs or was it something that you would just maybe that was a lack of knowledge?

Lisa (04:47.361)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (04:56.564)
It was, so I was somewhat familiar, mostly just, yeah, I was like this, this familiar right here.

John Harcar (05:04.942)
What was your marketing strategy to get the wholesale deals?

Lisa (05:09.996)
So I did bandit signs I did I Did you know I had to go to the courthouse then I would go to the courthouse and look at the courthouse board and then go knock on the door Which is dangerous nowadays, but yeah, yeah, but just literally having a best go into the courthouse I’ll never forget that and then taking a pad and writing down all of the

John Harcar (05:19.009)
Mmm, okay.

John Harcar (05:26.314)
How’d you like door knocking? well, yeah. Yeah.

Lisa (05:35.532)
And then at that time, you could go into the special proceedings vault in Cumberland County, which is one of the major counties I work in. And you could go into the SP files and try to get all the information. There was a lot of legwork.

John Harcar (05:40.534)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (05:49.774)
Oh wow. Okay. So it took you a year. You got your first deal and how did you find your buyer for that first wholesale?

Lisa (06:02.924)
I’m gonna honest with you, I don’t remember. I don’t remember.

John Harcar (06:05.794)
Did you post it on the web? Did you send it out to Craigslist? OK. Back then, yes. Yes, yes.

Lisa (06:11.232)
Craigslist Craigslist Craigslist Craigslist because Craigslist was big back then too It was Craigslist. I found some deals on Craigslist too. That was so crazy. You’re taking me down memory lane right now

John Harcar (06:24.214)
Well, hey, that’s what we’re trying to find out about you. So how much did you make on that first deal?

Lisa (06:28.044)
2700

John Harcar (06:31.054)
27 it beat me my first one was 2500 back in way back in mine was a family member that I didn’t know right and I just put the put it on Facebook what I was doing and Yeah, so alright cool. So you got this 2,700 you’re feeling jazzed. What did you do?

Lisa (06:34.023)
girl.

Lisa (06:40.94)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (06:49.034)
repeated the process.

John Harcar (06:51.438)
Did you put it all back into marketing?

Lisa (06:53.746)
No, I spent it all. Or not all I spent it all.

John Harcar (06:55.598)
I like to ask that because I like to ask that because some people be like, yeah Yeah, I put it back in the business and they have like this new watch or something

Lisa (07:04.446)
No, I’m not gonna lie. I am not gonna lie. I’m gonna keep it. I’m just gonna tell the truth. Yeah, no, I spent it all.

John Harcar (07:11.468)
That’s what I did. That’s what I did back in the day, man. I said, honey, guess where we’re going? We’re going on a trip. We’re going to dinner. So did you feel that wholesaling was going to be a bigger part of your real estate journey at this point? Or are you just kind of trying to balance both?

Lisa (07:18.708)
right. Just not, not knowing. Just, you know, foolish.

Lisa (07:31.828)
At the time I didn’t know I was, know, I’m gonna be a realtor. Well, and then the other thing was because the market had slowed down so much, I decided to try something new, pick up another full-time job and I got into travel. But yes, I was juggling, I was juggling a bunch of stuff then. So no, wholesaling was not like the main, like on my radar to be what it is now.

John Harcar (07:45.18)
Hmm.

John Harcar (07:48.984)
Thank you.

John Harcar (07:56.126)
Was it your only extra strategy? Were you doing any flips? Were you taking any down and holding them?

Lisa (08:03.276)
Nope, didn’t do any buying holds but I did do a couple flips and I hated it because my very first clip I’ll never forget. I don’t remember how found that one but it was on, I remember the street, was Maryland Drive in Fayetteville and the lady, she was super sweet, she was a smoker, the walls were brown.

John Harcar (08:12.212)
Why did you hit?

Lisa (08:29.312)
But the biggest thing that I hated about that flip is when we got, so we saw the bathroom, it was that mosaic tile on the floor and it was cracked up, right? And we didn’t know until we opened up that floor that from the joists all the way up through the studs was rotten.

John Harcar (08:29.385)
Lisa (08:47.87)
It was, and it was bad. It was bad. We went like $15,000 budget. was, it was mold and rock.

John Harcar (08:52.216)
Was it mold?

So you had to remediate all that? No, man.

Lisa (08:58.016)
had to remediate, to sister that joist because it was so bad. Had to tear it. that wall, there were two bathrooms that were back to back. They had to tear out the studs and put in new studs in that wall. And then just redo the entire subflooring in both of the bath. It was…

John Harcar (09:19.168)
So at that point, when that happened, were like, man, it’s a lot easier just turning this paper than it is flipping this hammer, turning this hammer.

Lisa (09:25.708)
Well, no, I tried it a couple more times but then my very last one the crew was so bad. I mean every time I would show up to the job site they weren’t there, things were halfway done, it took way longer than it was supposed to so I just I was like no no no no I’d rather just like you said just flip paper.

John Harcar (09:44.162)
Was the crew someone that you just went out and found? Were they referred to you? How did you find the people that did your work?

Lisa (09:50.486)
They were referred.

John Harcar (09:53.038)
better tell that person to refer them to you.

Lisa (09:55.24)
Yeah, I gave him a I don’t know but how what I can say on this podcast, but I gave him a strong talking to

John Harcar (10:02.584)
Good. So you flipped a couple, how many told you you flipped? No enough, so you transitioned back to wholesaling. What is your team, what does your business look like now?

Lisa (10:06.07)
Three. Three was enough for me to know that it wasn’t for me.

Lisa (10:13.686)
Yes.

Lisa (10:19.788)
So right now I have a virtual assistant and an ISA that does my cold calling and then my virtual assistant, you know, kind of keeps me on track. But she does all my cold calling and I’m still very hands-on when it comes to talking to people. It’s just because it’s something that I love. You know, I go out and I do my own assessments as well. You know, of course with my contractor. I know now how to eyeball something and kind of get an idea.

John Harcar (10:38.946)
Yeah.

Lisa (10:49.526)
But I still like to take my contractor with me. Yeah, that’s I mean, it’s it’s still in-house, but it’s we’re doing pretty well.

John Harcar (10:49.934)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (11:00.408)
Are you going to every appointment? Are you doing things virtually? What does your model look like that way?

Lisa (11:05.3)
I don’t go to every single one, but I do like to go to, you know, a few of them. Depending on the relationship that I’ve built with the… because I’m all about building rapport. The relationship that I’ve built with the potential seller. It just depends on that.

John Harcar (11:14.637)
Yeah.

John Harcar (11:21.152)
Is everything in your local market in North Carolina or do you go outside of that like to another state or anywhere else?

Lisa (11:27.5)
Well, right now, just in this state, so I’ve taught my team how to wholesale as well. So we cover from Charlotte to Wilmington. So they go out and they do appointments as well.

John Harcar (11:41.952)
Okay, now say when you say your team or is your VA are they Philippines, South America?

Lisa (11:47.752)
I’m sorry. When I say my team, I’m talking about my realtors, my team of realtors with my real estate group. So I’ve taught them how to make money with the firm and without the firm. I’m just that type of person.

John Harcar (11:52.621)
your realtors. Got it. Okay.

John Harcar (12:00.652)
Nice. So do they go and look at it and evaluate it as a wholesale deal or are they evaluating it as a listing? What are they doing?

Lisa (12:12.222)
It depends on what the numbers are. If the numbers will support a wholesale deal, we’ll try to wholesale it. But if they support a listing, then we’ll list it. So yes, we make money either way.

John Harcar (12:20.33)
Okay, all right, nice, nice. And you’re just completely not doing anymore flipping, you’re just doing that.

Lisa (12:26.988)
No, no, So it is crazy because I have investor clients that I do sell my wholesale deals to. So, you know, I would get the listing too. But I’ve thought about it because one of my last ones, matter of fact, the last one I closed was Thursday. That man made $130,000. So I’m like, do I really want to No, no, no, no, no, no, no, on the flip.

John Harcar (12:37.26)
Yeah.

John Harcar (12:50.624)
So,

John Harcar (12:54.35)
on flip. Okay. Okay.

Lisa (12:55.308)
Yeah, when he flipped it and I listed it, he made $130,000. So it’s kind of like, do I want to get back into it?

John Harcar (13:03.902)
Well, we all know that if you’re going to flip a house, the headaches are going to be a lot bigger than wholesaling a house, but your payout might be a lot bigger than wholesaling a house. So it’s a time and stress give and take. So let’s transition and go over the outside of the box investing.

Lisa (13:12.78)
Yeah.

Lisa (13:18.622)
Yeah, I guess so.

John Harcar (13:26.67)
I’m curious to kind of hear your take on that and why that’s important to you.

Lisa (13:33.11)
Well, for me, because I think with any business, have to know how to diversify your knowledge. So I know, I’ll give you an example. South Carolina, in essence, has pretty much outlawed wholesaling. So the people that have their entire business model in wholesaling, what are they doing now? They’re probably struggling because they put all their eggs in one basket. So just outside of the box, investing would be like, learn note buying.

John Harcar (13:52.942)
Double closing.

Lisa (14:01.45)
or how to negotiate, be the middle man between the note buyer and getting the notes. That’s something that a lot of people don’t even talk about these days.

John Harcar (14:10.126)
No, not much. Let’s talk about that. How does someone become a note buyer? How does someone become and utilize notes as a vehicle?

Lisa (14:18.038)
So the first thing is probably to get a good contact with a bank and there’s a whole way that you can go and find who they’re called special asset managers. So you get in touch with the special asset managers and just kind of see what they have. The biggest thing that they like to get rid of is the non-performing notes. So if you can get a hold of some non-performing notes, at this point, just go join some Facebook groups.

note buying Facebook groups, some LinkedIn contacts, and you know kind of see who’s buying notes and be the middleman to negotiate between the you know buying the note and it’s kind of I guess it’s kind of like wholesaling in a way but it’s with notes.

John Harcar (14:50.104)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (15:04.514)
So you’re just calling up the bank special asset manager and saying, Hey, what’s not performing.

Lisa (15:10.41)
Yeah, pretty much. Well, yeah, well, of course you have to create a relationship. They want to make sure that you’re serious because anybody can call and say, hey, what do you have? But they want to, you know, I’m sorry.

John Harcar (15:16.088)
Sure.

John Harcar (15:20.16)
Okay, and, and, no, I’m that’s important. I mean, what, what did you need to do to vet yourself to them?

Lisa (15:29.93)
that I had to show experience.

John Harcar (15:31.726)
Yeah, what requirements were you looking at before they would share that information with you? You said like, you know, they want to make sure that you’re legit, you’re not, you know.

Lisa (15:39.756)
Well, I think for me just being an owner of a real estate firm and being in real estate as long as I have, I’m thinking that that’s probably it because when they go, you know, they’re hey, what’s your website? You know, kind of making sure that I’m legit in real estate.

John Harcar (15:55.662)
Okay, what other kind of outside the box things?

Lisa (16:00.0)
Let’s see, note buying. People, don’t think sub twos are a real big thing right now either. People don’t talk about, I mean, those of us that have been in the game for while, know about sub twos, but I don’t think a lot of newer investors know about doing sub twos.

John Harcar (16:17.774)
Yeah, I it’s been a pretty hot topic, think, recently. And I think there’s more trend going that way. It’s definitely a more creative way to buy and just add another tool in their tool belt. You know what I mean? So if I wanted to get into the investing game, and I’m a realtor, I guess you could say, even if I’m not, what advice, what resources, what tools? mean, how would you kind of guide someone to?

Lisa (16:20.694)
Yeah.

Lisa (16:29.952)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (16:38.284)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (16:45.824)
make those first steps.

Lisa (16:48.828)
so initially I’d probably let them know just like with any other type of business. It’s a lot, you know, it is, if you’re starting off from scratch, you don’t want to pay, you know, put a whole lot into it. can be a lot of work. I would probably tell them first to, start looking at the foreclosure real estate attorney websites. and just seeing, you know, who’s, who’s actively in foreclosure. then

go to, probably, well you’d have to go to the registered deeds and pull their information. Then you’d have to skip trace them, call them up, give them a script, tell them what to say. I’d probably coach them through the first few calls. Well, I’m sorry, we’re not talking about coaching. Get a script and go through the first few calls. Maybe do some role playing with somebody to get the script down pat. Don’t be scared.

John Harcar (17:36.214)
Yeah

Lisa (17:46.09)
You can’t be scared because people can sense fear. So sound like you’re the authority even if you’re not. But just try to…

Use the 70-30 rule to try to negotiate a deal. And what’s the 70-30 rule? For newbies, the end buyer has to be all in at 70 % newbies, all in with everything. So maybe…

John Harcar (18:07.232)
Mm-hmm. So they say do that 70 % minus repairs minus wholesale fee or assignment fee, whatever.

Lisa (18:13.834)
Yeah. Yeah, I’m sorry. I said that like people that don’t know would know what all that all in the. But yeah, so and then make sure you have a good closing attorney that can do either a double close or simultaneous close. So start doing that research before you even get started, because that can make or break your deal. And don’t do like I did and not know your numbers. Maybe get a good realtor that can give you some good comp.

John Harcar (18:19.286)
It’s okay.

John Harcar (18:36.579)
Yep.

John Harcar (18:43.842)
That’s good. That’s good. mean, knowing your numbers is huge. a big thing when I ask a lot of these questions to folks I talk to is get with someone that can help guide you, that’s been there, that knows what they’re doing, that can shorten your learning curve. Because we can all sit and have analysis process and learn on YouTube U. But until you get out there with someone and you start putting in the action, that’s what’s really going to grow.

Lisa (18:46.796)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (18:55.489)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (19:09.173)
Right.

John Harcar (19:10.646)
I love what we’ve been talking about, Lise. If anybody wanted to get in touch with you and talk a little bit more about outside the box investing or I mean, it’s really anything. Maybe they’re realtors wanting to do what you did and do wholesaling and maybe some flips or whatever. How do they get a hold of you?

Lisa (19:25.516)
They can email me at bic at Avalonrealtygroup.org or they can call me at 910-580-6538 or text.

John Harcar (19:40.728)
Perfect. Any last pearls of wisdom, little tips or tricks or something you want to drop on our audience.

Lisa (19:48.812)
I think I’m just gonna piggyback on what you said get a mentor get somebody that’s been in the trenches that knows that knows that knows that knows because you don’t want to Get out there and get frustrated and quit because it can be lucrative. You can make some good money You just have to know how to do it,

John Harcar (20:04.662)
Yeah, yeah, and when you go in there without that and you feel that defeat right away It’s tough to really continue to grind if it’s just you know an uphill battle get someone that can help you get up that hill quicker Well guys, I hope you guys enjoyed the show Lisa once again Thank you so much for coming on here and spending the time if you guys want to reach out to her we’ll have all your all the contact information in the show notes and Lisa thank you very much again, and I hope everyone enjoyed the show. See you guys on the next episode. Thank you. Bye. Bye

Lisa (20:30.614)
Thank you. Thank you for having me. All right, bye.