Transform Your Life: Lessons from a Lawyer Turned Real Estate Investor

Stephen Schmidt (01:31)
Welcome to the show where we interview the nation’s leading real estate entrepreneurs I got a cool person here in the studio with me today who’s an absolute phenom has a really interesting background several different careers But mainly went from being a lawyer Practicing a lot of owning over 40 rental properties in less than three years All while working a full-time job using the burr method and we’re gonna be getting into a really cool conversation about how somebody that’s also busy

Cindy West (01:32)
Welcome to the show where we interview the nation’s leading real estate entrepreneurs. I got a cool person here in the studio with me today who’s an absolute phenom, has a really interesting background, several different careers, but mainly went from being a lawyer practicing a lot of owning over 40 rental properties in less than three years, almost working full-time job using the burn method.

and we’re gonna be getting into a really cool conversation about how somebody that’s also

busy, maybe you’re a working professional, whatever that might look like, can do the same kind of thing and actually buy back your time so you can have freedom, which is what we do this whole thing for anyway. I got Sidney West in the house, just remember before we get started. Here at Industrial Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers, and real estate entrepreneurs, to identify their businesses so they can build the businesses they’ve always wanted and live the lives they’ve always dreamed of.

Stephen Schmidt (01:59)
Maybe you’re a working professional, whatever that might look like, can do the same kind of thing and actually buy back your time so you can have freedom, which is what we do this whole thing for anyway. So I got Cindy West in the house. Just remember before we get started, here at Industrial Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers, and real estate entrepreneurs, 2 5X their businesses so they can build the businesses they’ve always wanted in order to live the lives they’ve always dreamed of. With that

being said, Cindy, welcome to the show today. Privilege to have you here.

Cindy West (02:24)
That being said, Cindy, welcome to the show today. Privilege to

have you here. Thank you for having me. It feels like it’s an honor for me to be on your show and hopefully share with your audience how they can use rentals to actually get out of their nine to five and actually have true freedom like it’s happened for me. So thank you. me ask you this. When did you decide real estate was going to be your golden ticket for lack of a better term? mean, you had a military background.

Stephen Schmidt (02:30)
it.

Love it. Let me ask you this. When did you decide real estate was going to be your golden ticket for lack of a better term? I mean, you had a military background.

You go to advanced schooling, you get your law degree, you become a lawyer, and then boom, hey, I’m going to do real estate too. How does that happen?

Cindy West (02:54)
You go to advanced schooling, you get your law degree, you become a lawyer, and then boom, I’m gonna do real estate too. How does

that happen? So in 2020, while I was in law school, I got the real estate bug, but it was for wholesaling real estate. If you know anything about wholesaling real estate, it’s very difficult. It’s not like the YouTube videos tell you it’s gonna be. You’re gonna get your first deal, you’re gonna make $15,000. That would be so easy. These people are making $15,000 a deal.

Stephen Schmidt (03:08)
Mmm.

That would be so easy. These people are $50,000 a deal.

Cindy West (03:23)
Exactly. I got the buck from there. I tried to hold still for like maybe six, eight months. It did not work out at all. So I was like, all right, I’m going to really focus in on law school. going to keep this going. I’m going to obviously become an attorney. But I was like, real estate is where it’s at. I was into their pockets, of course, right? Just immersing myself in it. But I didn’t know what route I was going to take. And it wasn’t until I actually became an attorney and started working that I kind of figured out, OK.

This is going to be the specific role within real estate that I’m going to take.

Stephen Schmidt (03:55)
And so you had this epiphany how soon into becoming a lawyer were you like still in school too When you started actually buying your properties

Cindy West (03:57)
And so you’ve had this epiphany, how soon into becoming a lawyer were you like still in school too, when you started actually buying your properties?

I was two weeks in. So two weeks into working as an attorney, I was like, this is gonna suck. I gotta get out of here in two years. And then I bought my first deal maybe like four months after I made that decision.

Stephen Schmidt (04:21)
That’s wild.

That’s super interesting. And so in your military career, when did you get out of the military?

Cindy West (04:23)
That’s super interesting. And so in your military career, when did you get out of the military?

I got out in 2019. 2019. So straight out of that, straight into law school, straight into real estate. Like you make decisions fast. Yeah. Yeah. But once I’m just like committed to something, I’m like, just do it. Like don’t think twice about it. Just do it. Full send, right?

Stephen Schmidt (04:33)
2019. So straight out of that straight into law school straight into real estate like you make decisions fast.

Full send, right?

That’s super cool. So what’s the long-term goal now? What would be like that moment you’re able to really look back, kind of take a sigh and go, I don’t really need to do anything ever again.

Cindy West (04:51)
That’s super cool. what’s the long-term goal now? What would be like that moment you’re able to really look back, kind of take a side and go, I don’t really need to do anything ever

again. I think 80,000 in rental cash flow, 100 % equity, obviously, of all of my properties like it is now, that’s the absolute goal.

Stephen Schmidt (05:19)
Hmm.

Cindy West (05:19)
Now we have true time freedom, And finding it for freedom. I’m not tied to another job in real estate that I’ve created for myself. For sure. How long do you think it’ll take you to do that? I think five years. Five years? Yeah. That’s good. You move fast. Success loves speed, so I’ve been told by some of my respected mentors in the past. Now you’re in the Charlotte area. I am.

Stephen Schmidt (05:27)
pressure, how long do you think it will take you to do that?

five years? That’s good. You move fast. Success loves speed, so I’ve been told by some of my respected mentors in the past. Now you’re in the Charlotte area.

Did

you grow up in Charlotte? Did you just land there somehow?

Cindy West (05:49)
Did you grow up in Charlotte? Did you just land there somehow?

Well, so I actually moved here because of my portfolio. So initially I was living in northern Virginia. I was working as a lawyer in D.C., like I said, and I was like, I want to start getting to real estate. I want it to be somewhere relatively close to where I’m living at that I can travel to. So I started coming to Charlotte. Decided it was a good market to buy into. ⁓ Bought maybe about 10 rentals. And then I decided, you know, it makes sense to move down there, especially because I self-manage.

I I wanted to my portfolio. So I moved down here in the summer of 2023 and been here since when I moved here, I didn’t know anybody, but I knew it was going to be a really great place to be long term.

Stephen Schmidt (07:22)
What was your first deal or client like?

Cindy West (07:23)
What was your first deal or client

life? My first deal, it was a triplex, probably about 45 minutes right outside of Charlotte. It was on the market. I got a real estate agent involved because I wasn’t local. It was my first deal, right? So you just know, go on Zillow, look for a property, put it under contract ⁓ and bought that when everything was under market at that point that the tenants were living there.

⁓ purchased it and then from there it just snowballs.

Stephen Schmidt (07:54)
Wow. Now, what was the biggest risk you took early on?

Cindy West (07:56)
Now, what was the biggest risk you took for

a while? ⁓

I was very leveraged at that point. And there was a point where I just had to step back and say, this isn’t extremely wise right now. Maybe just let these stabilize. And there was a point where for about maybe eight months, I didn’t buy anything. I had bought so much in six months that I was like, the ship is the best sink if you don’t stop buying. ⁓ So I think I kind of learned there of it’s okay to sometimes step back, let it stabilize, and then go back to buying when you’re in a better position.

Stephen Schmidt (08:38)
Uh-huh.

Mm.

Yeah.

What was that like when you kind of having that realization? What were you going through there and what made you make the decision just like slow down to speed back up?

Cindy West (08:55)
What was that like when you kind of having that realization? What were you going through there and what makes you make the decision just like slow down to speed back

up? I didn’t enjoy it because I’m a deal junkie. Like I love looking at deals and then you’re like, this is a little cash flow. I don’t only have 2000 dollars on my bank account, but I’m sure I could make this work. I can buy this property. It’ll get me to my goals sooner, right?

Stephen Schmidt (09:11)
Yeah.

Cindy West (09:23)
So I wasn’t too happy with knowing that I can’t right now, but I knew that I’d be in a much better position to, you know, do rehabs, manage. And sure enough, I took like eight, nine months off and a ten unit came across where I had to put a huge down payment down. And I was in a better position to actually say I can do that deal because I haven’t bought anything in the last eight months. How did you decide which opportunities were worth pursuing?

Stephen Schmidt (09:47)
How did you decide which opportunities were worth pursuing?

Cindy West (09:52)
So because I knew I wanted to leave my job within two years after the first year where I bought all those houses and like I said, it was a huge financial responsibility. I realized what the cashflow was, right? I was the only maybe cash flowing like 3000 across all of those. And I was like, all right, I need to figure out how to increase my cashflow so I can actually leave my job without having 10 houses renovated at the same time and having, you know.

this big responsibility. that was a point where I was like, you know what, I need to go after a multifamily and just do one big deal. That’ll help me out a little bit in terms of the financial ally because it’s just one unit, but it’ll still push me towards my ultimate goal. So at that point, I was like, all right, put a pause on buying all these single family houses. Just wait for a multifamily to come across or just start looking for those. And sure enough, that’s kind of what happened. And I’ve just figured out that for me,

It’s better to do one big deal a year than to do multiple single-family homes like I was doing at the beginning.

Stephen Schmidt (11:29)
Yeah, I would my follow-up question to that was what’s evolved with your approach over the years? But it sounds like you kind of answered that question already

Cindy West (11:30)
I would, my follow up question to that was what’s evolved with your approach over the years? it sounds like you kind of answered that question already.

Yeah, it’s definitely been just going for the bigger deals at this point. Now what’s like perfect deal size for you right now? I’d say between six and 15 units. Distress assets that I can obviously buy with hard money because I’m buying it at a discount.

Stephen Schmidt (11:41)
So.

Now what’s like perfect deal size for you right now?

Mm-hmm.

Cindy West (12:00)
And then I’m also able to increase the income and the value of it so can refinance. And of course, it to be in North Carolina. Everything is within an hour. So I try to keep everything within close proximity to me. Sure. How do you find most of your deals or clients? All of my deals have been through wholesalers, actually. So as I was mentioning to you, I do a lot of networking here in the local groups, the RIAs. So everything I’ve ever bought outside of the first

Stephen Schmidt (12:00)
Mm-hmm.

How do you find most of your deals or clients?

Cindy West (12:30)
four or five deals that were on the MLS, everything else that’s just been purely through wholesalers and relationships in the community.

Stephen Schmidt (12:37)
What’s a deal that makes it an instant no for you? Like what makes a deal an instant no?

Cindy West (12:39)
What’s a deal that makes it an ace that can go for you? Like what makes a deal an

ace to know? I would just say a very old property that has lots of issues because I’m also thinking, right, if I want real estate or the portfolio to be my exit, it has to be able to withhold itself at least for the next

15 to 25 years. That’s my goal. don’t want to I’m not buying to sell in three years. I’m not buying to sell in five years. I really want to hold these properties. And so I really try to stick to properties that aren’t brand new, but maybe at least 1950s and older older or younger, I should say that I know I could actually own this asset for the next 20 years and then sell and somebody would still buy that asset. Right. I always think there’s a lot of older homes here in North Carolina. Sure, I could buy a 1900 at home, but in 30 years.

in 2050 who’s going to buy a 1900 property right it’s a little bit tougher till the straw so that’s just old that’s usually what’s in my mind when i’m seeing those really older ones that usually come at a cheaper price but yeah well a lot of that ultimately comes down to when you think about it from a logical standpoint too i mean

Stephen Schmidt (13:49)
Yeah, well, and lot of that ultimately comes down to when you think about it from a logical standpoint, too. I mean,

it’s just like on our tax returns, right? Like there is such thing as depreciation and houses do depreciate, even though maybe the property value goes up over time, the house itself, the structure depreciates. So it’s one of those things where you get it too old.

Cindy West (13:58)
It’s just like on our tax returns, right? Like there is such thing as depreciation and houses do depreciate even though maybe the property value goes up every time the house itself, the structure depreciates. So it’s one of those things where you get it too

old and then eventually it becomes, we probably should just bulldoze this and build something new on the planet, right? So your point, even if the value is there, right? You might think this this asset is absolutely going to appreciate over the next 20,

Stephen Schmidt (14:14)
And then eventually it becomes, we probably should just bulldoze this and build something new on land, right?

Cindy West (14:27)
23

years, but it’s in fact actually depreciated because it’s an older asset, right? And things have just changed in the market and just the structures around it. Will someone really want to buy that asset? I was at 1890s properties and I’m like, if I’m hesitant to buy it now, I can’t imagine in 30 years, someone actually looking at that property and be like, yeah, I’ll pay market price for that. Yeah. What are some systems or processes that have saved you from?

Stephen Schmidt (14:29)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. What are, what are some systems or processes that have saved you from major

headaches since you self-manage all your properties?

Cindy West (14:56)
make your head like a sense of yourself and manage all your properties.

So when I started out, I using apartments.com and it’s worked till now, I’d say for the most part, but it’s helped me a lot with just accounting and keeping ⁓ just accountability of what’s being paid as far as rent and maintenance requests. I realized quickly I was kind of becoming like that typical landlord that would just write everything on postcards and notepads and scrambling to figure out who sent me their checks at the first of the month.

⁓ so really learning early on, like it’s totally worth having a system where tenants can pay and introducing that to them early on. I realized that it’s so hard once a tenant lives in a property to convince them to sign up for a platform or software that they’re not used to, as opposed to day one being like, this is how you pay your rent, sign up, make sure you’re on it by the first. And this is how we’re just going to roll. So it’s just setting up those, those expectations. Day one was helpful.

Stephen Schmidt (16:34)
What are you doing today that your past self wouldn’t have agreed with?

Cindy West (16:36)
What are you doing today that your past self wouldn’t agree

with? My past self would not agree with.

necessarily that’s a very good question I guess if I had to probably say something it’s probably knowing that I’m limiting my scale right or how many doors I could get by keeping all the equity I think there was a point where I do I did you know come to the conclusion if I really want to scale up I was gonna have to have investors and looking at different strategies and now pivoted a little bit of I don’t care how many doors I have I rather just own all of it

So I think it’s just me pivoting and realizing what makes real estate my freedom and what that means. It just looks differently, right? I know I could have a syndication and do all these other things, but it’s like, actually, I’d rather just have it all myself, regardless of how that sounds or whether it’s selfish. ⁓ But I’d rather just learn everything myself, to be honest. Why is that? I feel like having other investors creates another job for you.

Stephen Schmidt (17:42)
Why is that?

Cindy West (17:48)
And I really would like to avoid that. I would really like to avoid having to give anybody a response or reasoning, walk behind why I’m making decisions around my portfolio. And I just think that’s probably what I want my freedom to look like. What’s the difference between because like, obviously everything’s a relationship, right? So what’s the real difference between a syndicate versus using

Stephen Schmidt (18:04)
What’s the difference between, because obviously everything’s a relationship, right? So what’s the real difference between a syndicate versus using

hard money? If everybody’s still in LP, they’re a silent partner, they understand the drill. What’s the real difference, do you think, between still using other people’s money versus it becoming a syndicate?

Cindy West (18:15)
you know, hard money, if they’re already selling LP, they’re a silent partner, you know, they understand the drill. What’s the real difference, do you think, between still using other people’s money versus it becoming a

syndicate? I think at least from my understanding with syndications, they’re just longer term, dry might be two to five years, as opposed to hard money, it’s a six to nine months thing that you’re doing to obviously re-stabilize the property. So it’s just shorter term and it’s you’re not giving them updates.

You can have more control over the deal. And even after that, once it’s stabilized, I can control the tenants. I can control what the renovations are being done to the property. And I can just be okay with what my decisions are, right? I might not want to do a huge capex on a property, even if it needs it, right? It might not be the time. It might be the time to actually invest in another property that I think is a better position for that injection. And so I think just…

having that autonomy to make those decisions, as opposed to having to still go back to somebody and say, your money is in this, I owe you a response.

Stephen Schmidt (19:24)
What’s your approach to building long-term relationships in the business?

Cindy West (19:26)
What’s your approach to building long-term relationships in

the business? It’s absolutely key, especially locally. Like if you’re buying in a market and you want to stick to that market, you have to have those relationships, especially with banks. Because I’ve learned very quickly, especially the community banks, the commercial banks that are small, not the Bank of America’s or the Chase’s, but the smaller ones. They want to see your face. I had a lender come to my closing.

I’ve never seen a lender show up to a closing, but he wanted to meet me in person because he was a local guy. Yeah, it was just very different, right? But I’ve learned to appreciate that and really try to hone in on checking in with my lenders and just, you know, even just the hello, nurturing that relationship because when I do need money and I do have the next deal, they’ll actually remember who I am.

Stephen Schmidt (20:19)
Have you ever had to fire a partner?

Cindy West (20:19)
Have you ever had to fire

a partner? I haven’t had a partner.

Stephen Schmidt (20:27)
Well, what I mean is, is even just like who you deal with like from a service provider standpoint, but not so much like an actual like 50-50 partner that’s like running the business with you, right? But like, you, like how I usually frame that question as a client or a partner, like for instance, you know, with my marketing company, like I’ve had clients and I’ve had to fire those clients, right? Because like not all money is good money. So have you ran into a situation like that yet with somebody that like actually supports your business?

Cindy West (20:28)
What I mean is even just like who you deal with like from service provider standpoint. Not so much like an actual like 50-50 partner that’s like running the business with you, right? But like how I use your friend that question as a client or a partner. Like for instance, you know, with my marketing company, like I have clients and I’m going to fire those clients. Because like not all the money is good money. So have you been into a situation like that yet with somebody that like actually supports your business?

I would say the only person really was my agent that I initially used. After a few months we did a few deals together and it was kind of like, you know what, I’m better off going off the market and I can find better deals than the ones you’re bringing me. And it wasn’t anything obviously personal, but I think once I started seeing deals, I realized that what he was sending to me weren’t all that great.

Stephen Schmidt (21:20)
Are you still completely solo op right now or do you have anybody that you employ or do you outsource anything? What is like, is the business all start and stop with you?

Cindy West (21:20)
Are you still completely solo off right now or do you have anybody that you employ or do you outsource anything? is like, is the business all start and stop

with you? So I have my dad, he works on the maintenance side. He kind of just does the rehab management, you could say. So we have a crew that does most of our rehabs and then he manages them. But outside of that, still it’s a pretty slow operation.

Stephen Schmidt (21:48)
Okay. So with military background, you obviously had to have spent some time around some pretty decent leaders. Who’s the best leader that you’ve spent time around and what did you learn from them that you’re going to implement as you continue to grow your business?

Cindy West (21:51)
So with military background, you obviously had to have spent some time around.

some pretty decent leaders. Who’s the best leader that you’ve spent time around and what did you learn from them that you’re going to implement as you continue to grow your business?

I would say I had a chief officer while I was deployed in Kuwait in 2018 and that was by far the best leader I ever saw in the military. And I would just say he held me accountable but he was extremely personable. And I learned, especially in the military oftentimes

You’re going to be held accountable at all phases, right? But that personable side of a person, you’re not going to see that, right? Because they tell you to be rigid, to be rough. ⁓ So seeing someone just come to my level and just be level headed with me and try to understand where I was at while also just still saying, this is what we need to do and I’m going to hold you accountable. I know you can do this. ⁓ Really, it just taught me that as a leader, can set standards, but still be somebody that

other people actually want to be around. If people don’t want to be around you, maybe they may work for you, but they’re not going to work a very long time for you. And I think that’s why for me, you know, everybody talks about hiring VAs and, you know, just hiring somebody as soon as you can and just don’t worry about it, right? But I don’t want to hire somebody and then rehire them in three, four months because they quit, right? They don’t care about me. I’m not personal with them. I’m just giving them tasks.

right, especially admin tasks that they might, they probably have no interest in doing, right? So I think just realizing in order to really be a good leader and actually have like a good team, you should have connections with those people and they should wanna hang out with you, right? Actually enjoy being around you because that’s how you get them to stick around longer. Like I would have gone to bed with my chief but I actually enjoyed hanging out with him. Even if I had to do the work, it was like, I’m being seen.

I’m being appreciated, I’m being valued, and that just goes such a long way when you have somebody senior to you acting like that, because you don’t see it often at all. Yeah, I agree. Totally agree with that. How do you say educate yourself everything changes so fast? That’s a very good question. I would say, ⁓

Stephen Schmidt (24:07)
I agree, totally agree with that. How do you stay educated with everything changing so fast?

Cindy West (24:19)
Just, I read the news, but I focus mostly on my market. So I’m always constantly looking up like Charlotte or the specific markets that I’m in are on Charlotte and always looking at development. For me, there’s obviously a ton of cities around my market and I try to stay within like a hundred mile radius, but I’m just always looking to see what kind of development is going around and what’s coming to the cities and where are the towns that are rural that nobody else is looking at, but they might have a big development coming about.

So I just try to stay up to date with those kinds of things.

What part of the mystery do you think is overdue for disruption?

Stephen Schmidt (24:53)
⁓ What part of the industry do you think is overdue for a disruption?

Cindy West (25:01)
Property management, but I don’t think it’s gonna happen. I don’t think it’s gonna be disrupted, but it’s definitely overdue. Why’s that? ⁓ There’s just a lot of bad property managers, right? And you’d be so surprised that there’s actually a lot of bad landlords. Right? We’re still very old school and that’s why I was being very candid and when I said there was a point where I had everything on my notepads. Although I would consider myself young, I know about AI, there’s all these technologies. For the most part, people…

Stephen Schmidt (25:05)
Why’s that?

Cindy West (25:29)
kind of half-ass it, to be honest. And so I think that there’s a lot of improvements that can be seen in this space. And I think I’m more inclined now to really get a software going, ⁓ start implementing AI, making it a better tenant experience. Because then I could just beat my competition, even if you have the same product, right? If it’s a C-class product at the end of the day, if I’ve got a better experience for my tenants, they’ll continue to renew.

their leases. So I guess that’s where it’s at for where I’m at in my life, right? Right. Yeah. Because ultimately at the same time, like the longer you can have a good tenant stay in a property, the more money and less that they see enough. 100 % and tenants will want to renew if they have a good experience, right? If they can never get ahold of you or if you don’t fix things.

Stephen Schmidt (26:05)
Right. Yeah. Because ultimately at the same time, like the longer you can have a good tenant stay in a property, the more money and less headaches you have.

Cindy West (26:22)
you know, within a reasonable amount of time, you’d be surprised. They’re keeping that in the back of their mind and you have no idea it’s coming, but they’re gonna say, I do not want to renew my lease.

Stephen Schmidt (26:34)
you. If you had to go back to the beginning and get started all over again but you could take all the knowledge that you’ve gained over the last few years albeit not decades but still a lot in the time frame that you have achieved what would you do different and what would you do the same if you had to start over back then?

Cindy West (26:34)
with it if you uh have to go back to the beginning and get started all over again but you can take all the knowledge that you’ve gained over the last few years albeit not decades but still a lot in the time frame that you have achieved what would you do different and what would you do the same if you had to start over by

them i would still probably bought the houses that i bought they weren’t home run deals by any means but they gave me a sense of confidence and then they gave me credibility to lenders which

was what I needed to actually scale up. So they weren’t great deals, they were okay deals that gave me something at the end of the month. ⁓ But I’d probably still do that. And then I would say something differently that I would do would probably have been to start networking more. So I didn’t network at the beginning until I actually moved to Charlotte, which was a limitation in and of itself.

I could have probably found a community online or at some point have started connecting with people that were in the industry that were already doing what I knew I wanted to do early on instead of waiting a year into it to kind of get around people.

Stephen Schmidt (27:40)
Cindy, can these folks find you for more, learn about what you’re working on, and connect with you?

Cindy West (27:41)
Cindy, work with these folks, find you for more, learn about what you’re working on and connect

with you. For sure. I’m on Instagram, Cindy West, Undersport. Post videos there, trying to kind of take people along for the journey. So you can find me there. There you go, folks. Good job for some love from the real estate pros and Investor Fuel. Thanks for being there, Cindy, and we’ll see you all in the next episode. Thank

Stephen Schmidt (27:56)
There you go folks, go drop her some love from the real estate pros at Investor Fuel. Thanks for being here, Cindy, and we’ll see y’all on the next episode.