The Ultimate Investors Guide to Finding True Joy in Wealth Creation

Brett McCollum (00:01.027)
All right, guys, welcome back to the show. I am your host, Brett McCollum, and I’m here today with Paul H. Graham. And today we’re going to talk about the Investor’s Guide to Joy. Super interesting. Before we do, guys, at Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers and real estate entrepreneurs to 2 to 5x their businesses to allow them to build the businesses they’ve always wanted and allow them to live the lives they’ve always dreamed of. Without further ado, Paul, how are you,

Paul Graham (00:26.83)
doing fabulous. It’s a Friday, the sun’s out. It’s a great day for a great day.

Brett McCollum (00:31.799)
That’s it, man. I love it. Great day for a great day. Why not? Right? Yeah. Well, man, it was good catching up with you before we kind of, you know, getting to know each other a little bit, you know, that sort of thing. Got a lot that we’re going to probably try to unpack here, right? In a short amount of time. But before we get into everything and kind of go higher level, give us some history, some background, know, catch us up to speed. Who’s Paul?

Paul Graham (00:34.264)
Yes, sir.

Paul Graham (00:53.324)
Yeah. So, I’m just an entrepreneur who loves learning and, doing things. What I mean by that is I tried to apply for a patent when I was eight. My mom was very supportive on, you know, just now or entrepreneurship, right? I asked, you know, what needed to be done for a patent and they said 40 grand. So I turned to my mom and said, Hey, like, I need 40 grand for this patent. Right. so yeah, so I, I’ve recently released a book, with Kevin Harrington, the original shark.

just on my business experience, right? In the service-based industry, I had a residential painting business. I’ve also been in software, either as like a co-founder or working in FinTech type thing. And then most recently it’s been, you know, capital raising, know, oil and gas, short-term rentals, you know, hotel kind of conversions essentially, but really building marketing engines to, you know, fundraise or really just connect people. And we’ll go through this of like investors got a joy of kind of how that came to be and my personal investments, but that’s just what I’ve done.

professionally and then I grew up in Denver, lived in Austin. I now live in Nashville. I almost have like the five stones if you’ve seen, you know, some of those Marvel movies, you know, I don’t really need to move to Seattle, but you know, if I did, I’d have all the millennial cities. So that’s kind of me in some ways.

Brett McCollum (02:08.193)
Yeah. Yeah. You’re not rocking the beanie, man. Like, I don’t know if I believe you.

Paul Graham (02:14.446)
I have a golden tree behind me, so to each their own.

Brett McCollum (02:17.303)
There you go. Yeah, that’s funny. No, super cool. Yeah, we were talking about some of that stuff before, like you’ve done a lot of stuff at it. I mean, even at a young age where you’ve had so much experience into different things. That’s kind of why I wonder where I want to kind of rewind back a little bit. You mentioned eight years old. It’s a there’s some people are just wired a little different. You know what I mean? Like

Paul Graham (02:35.776)
Yeah.

Paul Graham (02:41.571)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (02:42.639)
and, I, I imagine when you said, 40 grand, you’re probably like, of course it’s just 40 grand. Let’s just get, let’s just do it. You didn’t think anything of it. Probably. Is that been like, like at eight, that’s the beginning of like, that’s the, but has that kind of been true to who you’ve been like, as you’ve been growing up, has this always been that way? Or is that kind of a moment in time? And then it became again later. What has that.

Paul Graham (03:03.276)
Yeah. So I’ll share a story with also like, an actionable takeaway that people can do. What I’ve found is that by taking strengths finder 2.0, I learned that I’m incredibly analytical. I love education. love connecting people. I love seeing like the possibilities and opportunities with things. If you look at traction, right. I’m mainly a visionary, but I also have a very high integrator score. I’m actually a more of an integrator than a visionary, which basically means I sometimes spin my wheels.

Because I know myself with those things, I’ve also taken disc in a number of other things. But just point is, because I know those things, I’ve realized where my strengths are and sometimes those things can trip me up. So I had a friend, fun story, I had a friend who recently visited me in Nashville. I’ve been here about six months. And he’s like, oh, hey, there’s Riley Green. I’m gonna go see if he can sign my hat. Like, no, Eric, do not go do that. Do it the appropriate way. All this stuff, right?

It’s to say like between eight and you now, so right now I’m 31. It’s the aspect of like, I’ve had more data. And so I’ve seen how things have like worked or maybe not worked. And so sometimes there’s that hesitancy or resistance, right? By the time of my age or your age or really anyone’s, we’ve just heard no so much that sometimes we have a precursor of what the expectation is going to be. Hey, I’m trying to do a sub two deal on this house. They’re probably going to say no because of this reason. Have you called them? What did they say?

Oh no, I haven’t yet called them. I’m actually going to eat lunch and then I’m going to do it. Well, it sounds like you just made an excuse for both yourself and for an opportunity to help someone. So it’s those sort of things where it’s, it’s a difference of being more like childlike thing and kind of like the underlying thing of joy. Like when you were a kid, you didn’t really care about anything of sorts, right? Um, you just sort of did it like, Oh no, excuse me. Like, can I have an ice cream? And it’s like, dude, there’s a 30 kids or 30 people behind you. Right.

Brett McCollum (04:33.187)
That’s right.

Paul Graham (04:52.43)
So it’s kind of that like blind optimism, you know, just like kid, childlike wonder, if you will, which is a piece of kind of the brand. But my point is to answer your question that like, yeah, it’s, I’ve definitely tried to like get back into it in a lot of ways because then it’s like, well, no, the mortgage or then this or like, but what about that? Like there’s the financial things and it’s just like in 10 years, what will you think about and process with it?

you know, I have, it’s on the top of my mind. So I’ll just share it. Like I have the opportunity to, go to a billionaire’s Island right now. Just random things just happen. And it’s like floating that on credit cards, like is not a good idea to any one’s thing. And also like, is this something that I would like radically be disappointed about and like wish I could do? And there’s potential to do it in future years. So it’s not like a one-time thing, right? So it’s those sorts of things where it’s like, how do we balance our

current finances as well as our future sort of state, right? Especially when we look at real estate, because we could have a bunch of property, but then our equity is tied up and then we can’t do anything with it, right? So understanding not just where you’re growing and going, but also like how you’re doing that along the way has just been a big thing. Because, you know, even just in your mastermind, right? Like having people grow and scale, like if you do a bunch of things on your personal name, you’re going to get tripped up, right?

So then you’re gonna need to do this and that. like knowing how people get maybe the 50 or a hundred houses or just, whatever that might be of, you know, commercial or maybe it’s oil and gas or venture debt or investments, right? Alternative investments, not just like stocks and stuff. don’t, don’t, it’s not my thing. It’s having again, that wonder, that curiosity, and then seeing how to make something happen as well as sometimes just doing it, right? Like we talked a little bit beforehand, right? Of who, how, and the idea of

Brett McCollum (06:27.779)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (06:36.28)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Graham (06:42.51)
Who is it? Have they done it before? Can they help me? Is it also that they could guide me or is it more that they could implement it for me type of thing? So those things have kind of come to be where it’s, I sometimes forget about that little eight-year-old boy that’s like, what do you mean? Like do it. Money’s not a thing, right? From a sense of abundance, as well as at least from like man of faith sort of perspective, money’s also not ours and is just.

created. And so if we can’t take it with us, as well as it should be, you know, stewarded to, you know, good positive things for ourselves and others, how are we then making decisions? That’s, that’s also helped my, you know, kind of childlike wonder, if you will also be more disciplined and intentional, and not just, my gosh, there’s a candy bar. You know, let’s buy 50 of them, right? Like, that’s the different kind of decision of sorts, right? So so guided.

um, you know, decisions, if you will, has kind of been the thing, but really being curious to anything. Last thing comes to mind on your question is this idea of the most magical, wonderful, incredible experiences of my life have been unexpected. So my analytical brain that’s like, you know, Oh, it’s got to be like this property, this and this and this and this, right. It might turn better in the pro forma, right?

Brett McCollum (07:56.579)
Mm.

Paul Graham (08:06.08)
As well as if I’m just trying to validate my analytical brain, I actually might not be in the best like head space of sorts to actually purchase something. Because if it doesn’t work with the pro forma, I’m going to be super disappointed and it’s going to cause all these issues financially, all this sort of stuff. Right. So it’s the idea of like investing with, you know, with the idea of, you know, joy and like your financial heart, as opposed to your, you know, logical mind or your egotistical emotions.

yeah, no, I wrote the most amazing underwriting deal. This is going to be like a 30 cap, kind of stuff. Sure. That could be a deal, right? That could be. but also recognizing like, why are you doing some of the things and why and how are you sharing some of the things? Cause you might just be, you know, validating yourself to candidly make yourself feel better. And the deal actually may not be good, right? Which especially when you own property, that’s a challenge when you buy and then you have to sell it at a loss or cause all these issues or things like that. So.

Again, things that come to mind and then some things to share and also take action on.

Brett McCollum (09:09.707)
Yeah, love it. Yeah, man, that’s like a whole seminar right there. look, it’s not wrong. let’s, I want to kind of still, and we’ll move on in a moment, but like something, what was reminded for me when you were talking about that, and that childlike wonder and the thing like, know, and my foundation, like how I try to operate is from a, I tried my best from a biblical

Paul Graham (09:25.304)
Yeah, please.

Brett McCollum (09:36.035)
perspective as well on how I operate daily life and business and everything. You know what’s interesting? When you’re eight, you didn’t believe there was nothing to tell you. Like you said, nobody’s told you that you shouldn’t think that, right? You said that, right? And there’s a reason biblically that if you read, you know, not trying to make it all like, you know, super biblical or anything for you guys in the audience, but there’s a, Jesus says to come with childlike faith. And the reason for that is because as a kid,

Paul Graham (10:00.621)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (10:05.237)
Everything’s possible. Everything is possible. There’s nothing that you believe it. Like the true belief, like I just need 40 grand. Of course I’m going to do that. That’s not nothing, you know, like, and I think that’s just refreshing to hear. He’s like that, that wonder this, but like, I think it’s just so difficult for us as, you know, you know, we’re, we’ve grown up and we’ve heard no so many times, like you said, and we’ve done this and it’s so difficult.

to have that faith like that, but the fact of the matter is, like, that’s how things happen.

Paul Graham (10:41.762)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Brett McCollum (10:42.945)
You have to believe. You have to. Otherwise, like, it doesn’t happen.

Paul Graham (10:48.034)
It’s the, and there’s a bunch of like Christmas movies on this, right? But it’s the same thing of like, you have to believe like with your whole heart, right? And then the reindeer start, you know, flying. there, there’s, I believe it’s twofold. I’ll give a quick, you know, parable about this. If you want to watch the full thing, it’s on my YouTube. it’s a fish climbs a tree. It’s the idea that if a fish climbs a tree, it’s a site that you can’t unsee and it has the belief that it should. Right. in terms of like kind of a higher power sort of directing it.

Brett McCollum (10:55.17)
Yeah.

Paul Graham (11:17.23)
faith, if you will, and the belief that it can, right? So our own internal, like, I can do this, as well as it has the skills, knowledge, and resources to climb that tree. So if at any point I use this as a heuristic where it’s like, okay, with what I’m experiencing right now, personal, business, financial, whatever, what is it? Is it belief? Is it belief in like a purpose? Is it belief in myself? Is it a skill? I may not have the skills. I may not have the knowledge, right?

And so then it’s like, okay, well, I don’t have the knowledge. I need to know more knowledge. Great. So then I’ll do that. And then maybe something else would come up. And it’s this idea of just like, you know, kind of taking that clay and molding it instead of using things as like a zero and one of like, should I buy this property or not? It’s like, well, this is in a new area that I haven’t yet done it. Let me go talk to the top real estate agents. Always talk to two to three people in anything, right? Even if it’s service contractors, huge belief. Then you’ll have more of that knowledge and information.

Brett McCollum (11:59.139)
Bye.

Paul Graham (12:13.45)
And, you know, go from there. I did this the other day. I called a couple of wealth managers in Nashville and I have, I think a new best friend. and then I learned, you know, met some other people too, but like, again, unknown things come and to your point, yeah, curiosity is radically just going to transform what’s possible simply because it’s just that childlike wondered. Everyone wants to be that kid. That that’s why I also put a hot tub. Well, granted hot tubs are just good for short-term rentals, but, I also put a outdoor miniature golf course at one of my short-term rentals.

again, also beneficial, but it’s also just fun, right? It’s just fun. So granted, you the bowling alley hasn’t come yet and a little more cost intensive and what have you, but just sometimes it really is those things of like, how can I become more of myself? And oftentimes that could just be what’s more of your inner child. Like you may not want to have 50 homes, right?

Brett McCollum (12:42.957)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (12:46.392)
Just fun.

Paul Graham (13:08.076)
You may just really want to be more intimate with the types of people that you’re connecting with. So maybe that’s more multifamily, right? Because you’re able to build relationships, you know, longer term and see people grow or, know, whatever the kind of analogy your thing is, but just how some of the investments that you can do can make an impact on other people’s lives as well as your own, again, on the dollars and cents, which are important. Let’s be very clear about that because you got to float it, you know?

Brett McCollum (13:29.005)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brett McCollum (13:35.047)
Absolutely. Yeah. And so, you know, we were talking, you know, before the show, we kind of hit on this idea of like, sometimes lately, anyway, let me say it like that lately, the all the gurus who are all the talking heads, you know, are out there saying like, your mindset mindset mindset and all and it often gets so oversimplified. And it’s just kind of, it’s cheesy. It’s like your mind, you know, it’s just doesn’t mean but

Paul Graham (13:59.214)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (14:02.903)
this, you know, I kind of had a feeling this is how the episode direction was going to go based on how our interaction was before we recorded. But I mean, man, all the things that you’ve, you know, with funding and oil and gas and short term rentals and hotels and wealth management and like the list of it’s like, bro, like, and I’m not saying this like blow smoke up your skirt, Paul, but it’s like, how the heck do you at 31 have in it’s in it comes back to what we were just

Paul Graham (14:08.386)
Yeah.

Paul Graham (14:21.037)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (14:31.811)
the whole, everything we’ve just been saying, it’s mindset. It’s the, it’s the childlike belief that I can, that I can, that I can, and then you did and are doing, you know? So I just want to make sure I’m highlighting that for you, man. Like if anybody’s listening, just, you guys, you know, we’re all in the real estate space. If you’re listening to this show, you’re probably in the real estate space, right? You know, and I don’t want to let,

it’s slipping gloss over super fast to be a superficial responsive, mindset, you know, but like, it, we really need to dig into the fact that like, man, again, I’m not trying to like, you’ve probably heard this your whole professional career, Paul, you’re too young. Like some people will do that. I know I’ve gotten it.

Paul Graham (15:05.517)
Sure.

Paul Graham (15:15.404)
Well, yeah, it’s been a big, big frustration of mine candidly. Cause even when I was like 10 or 12 or again, just all these things, was like, you can’t do this. You can’t do that. Or you have to wait or things like that. And I asked my mom one time, was just like, what makes a 16 year old capable of driving a vehicle than me and 14, right? Or said another way, right? What makes someone who has 20 years experience in real estate as an agent.

qualified enough to buy an investment property. I mean, yes, there’s certainly some nuances, but the difference between like a real estate agent and investor is just my definition is how I’m going about in terms of evaluating that. taking a real estate test, all these things, and I say this as a former commercial estate broker, like it just, that didn’t help me understand, you know, investing in real estate, right? But getting around the right people, doing the right things, also understanding how my wealth can be grown.

can be preserved and how I can steward my wealth. That’s a very important thing, right? So we’ll probably talk a little bit about that, but it’s, yeah, I’ve always had a little bit of like, know, youngest person in the room. I ran a residential painting business for a couple of years and I was 18, youngest guy. But it was, you know, I found the top performers and either made bets or just friends with them and found my success radically transformed, right? And…

I also found that, you know, who I became was incredibly beneficial at the process. And so I have this thought to share this, right? Cause we, it’s always fun to talk about the young guys who, you know, made a bunch of money, super, you know, all this stuff. And then you have the guy or gal is listening who’s like 35 or 52. And they’re like, well, cool. You know, that’s not me. Right? So I’ll tell you the story. My parents became real estate investors with me. And when they were 71 and 73, I might mess up their ages, but the point is that.

They’ve always been like just like education, data analytics, like they’d never invested in anything else besides stocks, right? And there was an opportunity for me to buy, you know, a short-term rental in Canyon Lake, Texas. And, but I needed, you know, more debt to income ratio. So I’m just getting quickly tactical for people where together we used our combined debt to income ratio to buy this property. And here’s what happened, Brett. One, I have a property, amazing.

Paul Graham (17:37.812)
to this where the miniature golf courses, so heck yes. but also I’ve seen my parents smile more in the past four years than I have in my entire life. And it’s because it gave them a different like outlook on life. gave them a different perspective. We also did something together as a family. so potentially for, you know, anyone out there who’s, know, in their seventies or fifties or forties or thirties or twenties, whatever, right? Like there’s opportunity to partner with people at different levels, as well as do things on your own.

Brett McCollum (17:44.995)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (18:04.675)
Good night.

Paul Graham (18:06.378)
Again, granted, like have that experience and background. I’ve been in commercial real estate. I’ve been in around the investing game for, I don’t know, 15 some odd years at this point. So not just advocating, go buy a short-term rental and like call it a day. Like know your stuff, right? Because you’re curious and by being curious, you might do a partnership. You might do an investment. You might do it yourself, like whatever it might be. But I think that’s the big thing is it’s not just a, like who you are today. It’s also who you desire to be.

And what does that look like? Right. And again, the idea of like your financial heart, right. What’s inside? If you had $10 million, like that’s just going to magnify. Like, could you be the person who not only makes 10 million, but also gives away 10 million? Those sort of things. So yeah, age regardless, but yeah, it’s just been, that’s just been my experience, right. Where it’s just always been.

Brett McCollum (18:36.312)
Right.

Brett McCollum (18:56.365)
I think for me it’s a chip on my shoulder, right? Almost in some ways of like, like it’s the whole, it’s back to that same eight year old person, like who says you can’t do it? You know, so I was, I played baseball my whole life, played through college and you can’t really see me, but you can probably infer that I’m not a big dude, okay? Like, and I was always the smallest guy in every field I ever played on, especially when I got to college. These big old giant human like,

Paul Graham (19:06.243)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (19:23.363)
six, five, six, six, just monsters getting up there. And that little five foot nine with cleats, I said I was 10, five, 10. And tiny self on the mound pitching to these monsters of like, and they look at you like, like, why are you here? You know, and it’s, it’s always been this thing of like, because nobody told me I can’t, well, they tried to tell me I can’t, but like, I’m going to tell them that yes, I can, you know, like, and, but it’s the same mentality of like, I don’t care if you’re

Heck man, I know teenagers with investment properties, okay? Like, you know, there’s nothing saying you can’t do it, other than naysayers that just don’t think big enough and they’re just telling you no.

Paul Graham (20:01.581)
Yeah.

Paul Graham (20:05.42)
Yeah. Well, they’re also not you, right? And again, the curiosity would be, hey, I’m really curious if I took a flight recently and I was like, hey, I wonder if I could just use the first class bathroom, right? And just went up and used it. No one said anything, no issues, right? It’s just, I’d try it. So it’s that sort of aspect where it’s just trying things and being curious of like, that didn’t work, right?

And the reason being is like, that’s a true like SaaS startup founder mentality, right? Real estate investor too, but the idea of like, let me, let me try this. Let me see that things like that. Right. So potentially it’s, you know, calling the biggest brokerage you have out there. And it’s just like, Hey, you’ve been a top performer for the past three years. Like I would love to know the mindset that, know, the types of investors that you work with, or I want to work directly with you or kid, I buy you lot, whatever. Right. just the most, again, did the same thing with wealth managers the other day. Right.

I’ve talked to family offices and I think the big thing too that I used to realize that I wanted to do with that I wanted confirmation on is that people who have a hundred million dollars or maybe like a billion dollar plus net worth, right? That they were different and really they’re not, they just have different, right? So they’re still putting their pants on, they’re still putting socks on, things like that. And so when you’re curious, when you’re laughing, when you’re having fun, hey, I’m gonna go grab a water, would you like one?

Could I also grab you a water? We’re all humans. And so that was a big thing that I realized. And that also radically transformed getting back into real estate kind of transaction stuff, either as a broker or even just myself, is getting the right deals done and also working with the right people. Sometimes you can’t help that if you’re a broker. Stories aside, especially in commercial real estate, still.

being able to be someone who can hold that space to be that great individual. And if boundaries are crossed and things aren’t done, like, hey, like right now, this is just not how I operate. My clients, my this, or even just my investment portfolio, my tenants, whatever it might be, these are my boundaries, these are my intentions. I would like to have specifically a conversation about this. I would not like to do this or that, right? Reframe sort of thing.

Paul Graham (22:26.51)
Part of our communication, but also just the intention of it. Yeah, just those things have been helpful to me beyond being the person. Because there’s been times where it’s like, oh, hey, sure, like, well, I can do this for you. Yeah, yeah, I’ll give you an extra this or that. Sure, I’ll get it. And it’s just like, I just made 10 grand.

Thank you and receive that too. So, yeah.

Brett McCollum (22:49.761)
Yeah, exactly. And receive it. That’s important. Well, do me, do me. I mean, that’s that we can deep dive that you need to know how to.

Paul Graham (22:57.064)
Yeah, I know. I saw that in both of us. Yeah.

Brett McCollum (23:00.299)
Yeah, you need to know how to receive that’s that’s a struggle when somebody like a personal thing, somebody says good job on something and me being able to just be like, that’s why I struggle to say thank you. You know,

Paul Graham (23:08.76)
Go compliment people. You will be able to receive compliments once you give more compliments, as well as when you desensitize yourself to things. Quick exercise, there’s this idea of the $100,000 briefcase. If you want more money or more properties or more things, amazing. Imagine someone showed up at your door right now and you have to go answer it. And someone being like, hey, here’s the things that you wanted or you’re going after. What do you say? Why are you here?

Who are you? Well, OK, but where are they? All these fact-finding things. Or is it just thank you? The abundance response is, thank you. When are you coming back? Or how also could I help you? Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. How’s your day going? So receiving is absolutely, definitely important than just taking or doing, but being able to.

Brett McCollum (23:50.978)
Right.

Paul Graham (24:04.782)
And then when people give you compliments or give you the opportunity to have discounts or properties or things like that, again, bringing that kind of human element into it and not just the real estate transaction.

Brett McCollum (24:15.799)
Yeah, I think for me it was a walk, like a self-discovery type of thing of like, why did I struggle? Like somebody said you did something good and you simply say thank you. Or no, no, no, it’s totally fine. Like, of course that’s like any, it’s deflecting, deflecting, deflect, deflect. And it came to realize like it’s a self-worth thing. Like that I am worthy enough to accept praise.

Paul Graham (24:31.404)
Yeah, not just turning it.

Brett McCollum (24:43.817)
And that has to be and took for as a law. It’s a still an ongoing and I break. Here’s the good news is I recognize it quickly now and I’ll go. It’s still weird for me to hear it. But I’m good. I know the response because it is an abundance mindset response to say thank you. Not because not like not like, I don’t know. Do you? Of course, like this what I’m supposed to do like you don’t say thank you to me. Of course, this is say thank you. Receive it. But I do want to transition to the investors guide to joy.

Paul Graham (24:57.612)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Graham (25:06.254)
sure.

Brett McCollum (25:13.347)
Because I think everything we’re talking about really, and I haven’t read it, I don’t know, I have to imagine though that that is somehow tied into everything we’re talking about.

Paul Graham (25:13.645)
Yeah.

Paul Graham (25:24.622)
Yeah, I mean, is. background of like how it was created. When I was in software, I doubled my W-2 income in the span of four years. I saved 40 % of my gross salary. did house hacks. had, you know, learned about loans. I da da da da da, right? Grew my real estate portfolio. I sep-tupled, so seven times, my net worth in the span of 18 months. And found that I thought I reached the absolute frickin’ mountain. Like there was going to be a party.

Brett McCollum (25:37.443)
Thank

Paul Graham (25:52.302)
And what I realized is I didn’t want anything but more of myself. And so what I mean by that is that I was chasing this like external thing. And we oftentimes do it, but it’s, once you do it, then you kind of feel it. Right. And so it became like, how can we create the idea of enjoying the walk, right. For the sake of the walk and enjoying more of the process than the outcome. And again, same thing. If I’m only focused on the outcome of having, I don’t know, call it 20 doors, whatever it might be.

Brett McCollum (25:56.866)
Yeah.

Paul Graham (26:22.21)
But I don’t focus on like the cashflow or the life I get to live or things like that. What’s going to happen? I’m going to create basically a problem where I’m frustrated to no end, hopefully a ton of systems at 20 doors. But point is, if you’re always focused on an outcome, then you won’t be able to allow things that you wouldn’t have otherwise been able to think or plan to happen. And so it was this idea of like, if we always want to go to the summit, we reach the summit for those who reach the summit, we realize it’s a false summit.

And then we look down at the mountain and we’re like, what’s that path? that’s the path to joy. Like, I really want that one. Right. And so it’s a difference of, you know, less, finance focus, right. More financial heart, more human capital, and more, you know, kind of spiritual capital, if you will, again, kind of those two belief things that I’ve found, I’ve been able to have people be like, Hey, Paul, like I have this new deal. I’d love you to come onto it. We’d love to give you like this percent or this ownership in the company. And it’s like, I didn’t.

work hard for this? What do you mean? And again, receiving it. So that’s really been the premise. That’s the story of how it was created, the premise of how I believe people can take action on it and integrate into their lives. I talked a little bit about financial heart and other things earlier in the episode to not just buy things for the sake of buying things in terms of investments. Or just also, great, you maybe have a bunch of properties, but also the idea, and here’s a fun one for me.

Brett McCollum (27:39.715)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Graham (27:48.098)
What if you went and bought a car, 100 % cash, and then you went and bragged about it to everyone and kind of did a better thing sort of thing? That idea of that financial heart, it’s not really that human healthy. You’re making people feel insecure and not as good about their financial situation or their ability to do it. So it’s more of how can you show up to help? And I’ve seen this happen in…

conferences and stuff where you like talk to people specifically like multifamily and stuff how many doors you got and like there’s always this one person who’s like how many doors how many doors how many doors and that’s all they’re seeking and it’s fascinating when you see an interaction of someone who’s seeking those things and Want that answer and kind of prove to themselves or really everyone else and then they talk to the person who has like 3,000 doors and they’re like, yeah, I have a couple like, you know, it’s nice to meet you What’s your name and they talk and it’s just like dude that guy has like

10X what you could ever imagine and like you would never know it because it also, you know, doesn’t really matter. So again, kind of that person and that’s sort of also how I’ve really added this idea of kind of do it yourself with management where I’ve seen like as we’re the type of people who do things ourselves, we tend to not have the right resources to tools around us, right? Exactly like, you know, the group, right? You have all the, you know, finance resources.

Brett McCollum (28:50.391)
It’s not too different from there.

Paul Graham (29:12.462)
and the planning, even the mastermind group, things like that, right? Which is part of the reason why I was excited to come on, right? But how are we again preserving that wealth, growing that wealth, and then stewarding it and get some of that tax advice or financial advisor advice and talking to the people who have $50 million? And we could just learn from them, oh, okay, this is how I structure, this is how I think about this, or this is how I was able to scale my portfolio to 50 million type stuff. And it’s like…

Brett McCollum (29:32.119)
Right.

Paul Graham (29:42.184)
sweet, like I can then, you know, either continue on that same path or potentially change, right? Do I really need more money or do I just need a different perspective type thing?

Brett McCollum (29:51.107)
Right. Yeah, love that. Yeah. And I think that when I talk to people, I love the idea of it’s your guide to joy. I think that’s just a it’s just a really healthy outlook. You know, like, what are you really pursuing? Is it for selfish gain or is it for what is it for? Another angle I look at is I have a firm belief in everything that we do is I think we humans are all inclined and driving towards

Paul Graham (29:59.105)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (30:20.363)
Where do I find peace? And I think that we’re all pursuing, you know, that every decision we make is in a, ideally is in a drive towards peace, you know, like, right. So like, I’m not going to go to the grocery store to, you know, if I’m not like trying to get something that I don’t need, right, like you’re typically you’re going for a thing that like you get it. Okay, that feels like I the thing I need, you know.

Paul Graham (30:22.318)
Mmm.

Brett McCollum (30:47.595)
And the people and people when they’re just buying stuff at random or investing in things in random and they’re just, they’re, they’re, they’re all searching for something in my strong firm belief is they’re still just trying to figure out where peace is and they don’t know what, where to land at. So our job as entrepreneurs, our job as, you know, you know, where the seats that I sit in is to really ideally guide people to, Hey, you know, where does that piece lie? You know, and you’re, it’s, it’s really a similar.

Paul Graham (31:00.194)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brett McCollum (31:18.019)
I don’t think they’re too dissimilar. where’s joy? Because joy is not a feeling. Happiness is a feeling.

Paul Graham (31:20.428)
Yeah, know.

Paul Graham (31:26.958)
Correct, yes. You know your stuff, yeah? Yeah,

Brett McCollum (31:29.763)
And so I think that that trend, yeah.

Paul Graham (31:34.006)
Yeah, no, I mean, it’s been cool to experience and think and especially from like a real estate investor perspective, like doing. So here’s a fascinating, there’s a couple of different exercises. One is like making your ideal day, right? Understanding what that looks, works from like a family life, personal life, work life, as well as what is your three year vision, right? Oftentimes we think of like, I want to have this much or do this thing or things like that, right? Buy these properties, right? Doing those things. And then.

doing a eulogy or what’s also called a life well lived, what you’ll find is that really it’s more about how you acted than necessarily how your day went or necessarily the things that you did. And if you want basically at this service for people to say, like he was an incredible individual. She was an amazing individual and she was always kind and always there and always had time for me, things like that. Whether you have seven or seven D properties isn’t going to be

Brett McCollum (32:11.747)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Graham (32:31.052)
really on that, right? Now, certainly if that’s something important to you, you could put that in there. But oftentimes I find by doing those exercises, we look and really see what we like truly, truly want and need. And there’s, mean, by the way, I have these on my website that people can download if they just want to like go through it, right? Cause that’s a really important thing for me is not just again, this like wealth thing, but just how do you change someone’s life by one degree, just by even like our conversation or just doing an exercise or even going to an event or something like that. Like your life could be radically different.

You could change generations from just even a mindset shift or a different action or, you know, being around different people, because it just constantly gives you a completely different trajectory. And to your point, yeah, the difference between happiness of just like, well, I’m kind of happy and it’s having joy in all seasons. Hey, I, you know, was not that I, anyways, I was thinking of like, if you got like a lawsuit or you like lost a property or all this stuff, but it’s like having joy in all seasons because it’s you and it’s not the thing you’re a human being.

not a human doing. So oftentimes it’s like, have my identity in, I’m a real estate investor that has this many doors that does this kind of stuff. And it’s like, no, I am a very successful, capable man who believes these things, who enjoys these things, who is this, who lives here and does this. Oh, and I also have this type thing. Because then if you strip away what you have, then I’ve also found it’s easier to allow in terms of adding more.

Brett McCollum (33:50.572)
Right. Exactly.

Paul Graham (34:01.142)
as well as easier to allow in terms of letting go, right? Hey, I just need to sell these properties because it’s not letting me live my ideal life. So I’m going to sell $5 million worth of real estate. my gosh, that probably took you 20 years to build. Yes. And I’m more focused on this now, right? So having that kind of perspective and that ability is key. Because otherwise you’re just going to be, you know, holding onto it, right? And the idea of kind of surrendering to maybe the process, but also like to again, like…

yourself and the ideal life and legacy that you want to right? Regardless of where that’s at for whatever category or net worth or cash flow or things like that are I believe important in addition to some of those things because I want to be someone who’s capable of doing all these things and was like that, right? Just like we talked about, right? So it’s not just, it really great person and like, you know, he did this small little thing. It’s no, he was great and, and…

type thing. a yes and.

Brett McCollum (35:00.331)
Yeah, love that. I mean, I know you and I can just keep doing this for probably days on end, right? I think that, yeah. But people, you mentioned your website, that sort of thing. But if people want to reach out and connect you with you further, you know, and following the journey, maybe learn more on the Investor’s Guide to Joy, that sort of thing. What’s the best way for that all to come to be?

Paul Graham (35:06.146)
Thanks.

Paul Graham (35:19.694)
So I’m really focused on the idea of like meet people where they’re at. So I have a YouTube, it’s Paul Graham. You know, I’m on LinkedIn. Instagram for me is more posting like fitness, faith and finance type stuff. And then the website is the best way in terms of finding some of these resources. I also break down all different types of alternative investments. So if you’re looking in like oil and gas or multifamily or things like that, like I help describe and educate you on them, because I believe that’s a big thing.

But it’s just to say like wherever you can find me, like reach out and connect, especially in the age of just AI and social media. Like, you know, I’d love to just hear, hey, like enjoy the conversation. Hey, I had a question about this. Hey, do know someone about this? Cause that’s really why we’re, you know, doing podcasts and connecting with other like humans, not just having you stay in your car and be like, Oh, that was a great episode. Then you like go to the next. So yeah, if something certainly resonated, you know, Paul H Graham is what I’m on LinkedIn.

It’s Paul Graham is pretty much the rest of them. So like I said, find me where you’re at, see how I can help it either grow kind of the net worth piece all the way up to just kind of stewarding and kind of the wealth management sort of, or kind of the DIY wealth management, if you will. I’m not a wealth manager, but again, the idea of bringing together people who need some of these resources as time goes on so they can learn and implement. Cause I’m a color outside the lines guy. like,

If I had a wealth manager, they’re going to tell me to do this and that. And it’s like, yeah, good thing, but I’m not going to. So it’s kind of for real estate investor type people.

Brett McCollum (37:00.173)
Very good. Guys, it’s a no brainer. Go to It’s Paul Graham, all the things, follow his website, Paul, and all the notes will be, they’ll be in the show notes for you guys too. reach out to Paul, connect with him guys. And man, this has been great, man. I appreciate you hanging out with me. This has been really good.

Paul Graham (37:15.502)
This has been incredible. No, great conversation. Appreciate your time, Brett. And thank you for interviewing me and spending time with me. I really appreciate you.

Brett McCollum (37:24.063)
Cool. Well, guys, thanks for hanging out with us and we’ll see you guys on the next episode. Take care, everybody.