The Hidden Benefits of Multifamily Investing: Are You Missing Out?

Brett McCollum (00:00.849)
All right guys, welcome back to the show. I am your host, Brett McCollum, and I’m here today with Nate Shields. And today we’re gonna be talking about multifamily investing. Before we do guys, at Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers, and real estate entrepreneurs to 2 5X their businesses to allow them to build the businesses they’ve always wanted and live the lives they’ve always dreamed of. Without further ado, Nate, how are you, man?

Nate Shields (00:25.976)
Hey, I’m Great Brett. Thank you so much for having me on today.

Brett McCollum (00:28.723)
Man, I’m excited to be here with you, man. This is great. Got to catch up with you before the show and get to know you a little bit. We’ve got a lot of things that we have some mutual love for us here. Your guitars back there. We talked about a few other things as well, but man, thanks. I really appreciate it. before we get into all the things, we’re going to talk about a lot. Can you catch us up to speed a little bit, rewind a little bit? Who is Nate Shields?

Nate Shields (00:52.738)
Yeah. So, you know, typically where I start, you know, is pretty, pretty much right after college as far as, know, thinking about career and things like that. When I was in college, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I just kind of followed my interests. so I went to a small Christian school, studied biblical studies and philosophy and psychology, but knew after a couple of years of that, that I didn’t want to do it vocationally. I just wanted to, you know, volunteer my time in the church. but.

That kind of left this gap after graduation. Like, okay, now what do you, how do you make money, you know, in, the real world with just a degree because you know, something that at least, know, my generation and the generation before it’s like, go to college, get educated, and then a job will be handed to you and you work there forever. Right. that wasn’t necessarily, that didn’t sound great to me, but I still had to make ends meet. so I got a marketing job out of college and, but started to explore some other.

avenues, and, and one of these things was actually, was a multi-level marketing, company and, and, know, they wrote me in and I, know, I never really did anything with it, but the one thing that they did offer was, you know, some of that mindset shift. And a lot of that was through, you know, reading books and things like that. And of course, one of those books, was a rich dad, dad and the cashflow quad quadrant. so the book that really,

stood out to me more was the cashflow quadrant, because if you remember the book, like there’s that the four quadrants you’ve got, you got W two, right? You know, employee, then you’ve got self-employed, then you’ve got business owner, and then you’ve got investor. And I’m like, well, shoot, I’m in this lowly W two quadrant. How do I make the jump into these other sections so that I can be in that investor? So at first I was, I was thinking,

Brett McCollum (02:21.748)
Okay.

Nate Shields (02:46.904)
You know, how do I get to self-employed? What do I do there? And it took me kind of many years and iterations, but I finally settled into real estate about a decade later. So it really did take me a little bit of time to settle into it, but I found real estate. I, I started out as an agent. And you know, my, my goal was just to quit my job. I didn’t like my job, right? You know, I, you know, it wasn’t fulfilling and, it was kind of a dead end type of position anyway.

Brett McCollum (03:07.647)
Yeah.

Nate Shields (03:14.318)
But, uh, I talked with a real estate broker and he walked me through good, bad, and ugly. And he actually kind of talked me out of it at first because I wanted to take as little risk as possible, making that leap from W2 to self-employed. wanted to do it, you know, part-time just to see if I was even good or liked it, you know? Um, and he kind of, he kind of talked me out of it, but shortly after that on LinkedIn and our alumni group, I saw someone post about getting started in real estate part-time as an agent. so I had breakfast.

Brett McCollum (03:31.839)
Right.

Nate Shields (03:44.396)
with the broker, we hit it off four months later, I was licensed and it was kind of off to the races in that sense. And within eight months, I was able to quit my job and really go full time as an agent in the Chicago area. And that’s what kind of got me started. And even though the first couple of years, things were going really well. I still had no, kind of, guess,

intellect or desire into the investment side, even though I started working with a few investor clients and I thought that was kind of interesting. What ended up happening was a property manager, uh, texted me, uh, the latest episode of, of one of the bigger pockets podcasts. And this is way back in 2015. And so they were around episode a hundred or something like that. So I listened to it on my way home from a showing and

Brett McCollum (04:31.241)
Okay.

Nate Shields (04:37.93)
I just kind of floored me. I was like, what is this investing side of things? It’s so interesting. And so I went back, I listened to all the episodes, started reading some, books, educating myself. And then I talked with my buddy about it, who’s a financial planner and he was already doing some real estate stuff with his family. And, but he wanted to do his own thing as well. And so we kind of pooled some resources together, talked about what it would look like.

got together with a commercial lender and we were kind of off to the races for our first rental property.

Brett McCollum (05:10.857)
Wow, and this is 15-ish.

Nate Shields (05:14.734)
Yeah, so that’s when we started talking. We bought our first property in 2016.

Brett McCollum (05:19.605)
Okay, and I’m gonna definitely rewind on this a little bit and then fast forward to today, how many on your personal side, how many do you own?

Nate Shields (05:29.632)
On the personal side, we own 38 units. Yeah. Yeah.

Brett McCollum (05:32.969)
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. that’s, we start with one, right? Like, that was not, I mean, really, that’s not even 10 years ago.

Nate Shields (05:42.318)
Right. Yeah, a lot can happen in a decade.

Brett McCollum (05:45.109)
It’s incredible, man. Like, sorry, let’s back up a little bit. All right, so, went to a small Christian university, it sounded like, me too, what? Another thing that we have in common, what? Which one was it?

Nate Shields (05:58.606)
Judson, it was called Judson College. Yep.

Brett McCollum (06:01.779)
Jetson I know Jetson. I played we played against Jetson. I was a baby I played baseball through college and I played at some of Eastern University and we played Jetson I know them. Yeah Not until tournament times. We play them in in some tournaments and stuff. Yeah. Wow. Okay, cool Funny funny funny But yeah, man, so you start off, you know, you you don’t like similar I agree you don’t know what you want to be when you grow up, right? You’re going through college and you’re trying to figure it out You landed that you said in marketing. Is that correct?

Nate Shields (06:07.852)
Okay.

Nate Shields (06:11.416)
Gotcha, gotcha, yeah.

Nate Shields (06:17.481)
Ha ha.

Nate Shields (06:31.746)
Yeah. So there’s a little bit of a nepotism. my, my dad was the director of marketing and he was able to get me in a part time. They needed some help. my uncle also worked for the company. was a, a law enforcement training company, but we were kind of the marketing arm, for them. And, the cool thing about it was I was able to work from home and I had pretty flexible hours, but like I said, it was, you know, it’s kind of more admin based and, and, it was mostly, there was no opportunity to.

Brett McCollum (06:48.04)
Okay.

Nate Shields (07:01.56)
really move up the ranks, so to speak, and I don’t think I would have if I was given the opportunity. So that’s why I was looking for something else.

Brett McCollum (07:03.082)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (07:07.157)
How long were you there for?

Nate Shields (07:10.446)
Uh, 10, 10 years, 11 years.

Brett McCollum (07:13.417)
Okay, for a while then, yeah, okay. I wasn’t sure if I was like, yeah, I was there for a couple months and then I, okay.

Nate Shields (07:15.842)
Yeah.

No, that was the gig through my 20s and early 30s, yeah.

Brett McCollum (07:24.723)
Yeah, did, hmm, I’m trying to process how to say this the right way. During that 10 year-ish period, were you ever at this point of like, have accepted that this is what I’m gonna do? Or was there ever like, or were you always like, there’s something more for me?

Nate Shields (07:46.942)
definitely the latter. Yeah. I was like, there there’s definitely something out there. you know, like I said, I kind of went through some different phases and iterations. looked at different, you know, businesses, like what would it look like if, you know, I bought a business or started a business and, know, try it, tried a few different entrepreneurial things and nothing really stuck. But, you know, I learned lessons and I kept educating myself through, you know, books and podcasts and things like that. but real estate, you know, it’s going to sound cheesy because this is

I think a lot of people’s stories is, you know, HDTV, you know, flip or flop and those types of shows. Like me and my wife would just sit on the couch and watch those and be like, if they can do it, I mean, I could do this thing. Like I could do the realtor side of things. I could flip a property, you know, all those different things. And so that kind of, at that point, I think I was really motivated, especially because we were about to have our first child. And so.

Brett McCollum (08:40.981)
huh.

Nate Shields (08:42.178)
There’s a lot of motivation that comes with that. It’s like, okay, that, responsibility of, know, you’re starting a family. that motivated me and my, my goal that first year as an agent was within a year, I would like to be full time on the agent side of things so that I can protect my time, provide for my family, you know, and be, be around as much as possible. and, like I said, within eight months, I was able to go full time.

Brett McCollum (09:06.601)
Yeah, are you still using your license at this point?

Nate Shields (09:11.734)
So I sold full-time for about six years, but then we moved and I did get licensed in Wisconsin as well after being in the Chicago area. But I, soon gave up the license. this was right before COVID, just because I didn’t want to start all over. and I, and I saw that the market, even at that time then in 2019 was getting pretty. overheated, you know, if you were working with buyers, you’re showing them.

10, 20 properties, putting offers in on all of them, 20, 40, 60 over asking and still not getting them. And I was like, I don’t want to play that game. That doesn’t sound like fun. And so I let, I let my license go at that point, for a few years, we worked more on the, you know, our, business and some other, businesses. And, then I just recently got licensed again here in Colorado, just, you know, beginning of the year. So I’m, kind of getting back into it, especially just to work with, you know, investors, cause that’s just kind of.

the language I speak.

Brett McCollum (10:12.435)
Yeah, for sure I get that. All right, so I guess this is a good, you mentioned a couple times different moves, moving from Chicago to Wisconsin, Wisconsin to Colorado.

Was your business up and running at that point during these moves?

Nate Shields (10:32.782)
Yeah. So, uh, uh, the business I started with my buddy, Troy, um, we started in the Chicago area. Uh, we, picked up, you know, I don’t know, four or five properties, you know, a couple of single families, a couple of duplexes, things like that. Um, and then my buddy moved to Charleston, South Carolina. He sourced a duplex there, uh, that we bought and we just recently sold that. Um, and then we had moved up to Wisconsin. So, you know, we, we’d kind of, he moved, uh,

out of state, you know, for many different reasons, better weather. Illinois is kind of a mess. mean, if you out migration is, is bonkers taxes or nuts. and politically it’s, it’s pretty unstable. So we ended up over time selling all those properties and focusing on two, two markets that we’ll probably get into, but, South Carolina, we bought that duplex and then we ended up finding some multifamily opportunities in Alabama.

Brett McCollum (11:28.725)
Okay, yeah, and I was wondering, because moving across different states and running a business, navigating that and how that works, but it sounds like you guys were already kind of in virtual markets, more or less anyway. Like I say virtual, like you weren’t boots on the ground directly there.

Nate Shields (11:49.408)
Right. I mean, even when we, even when we own stuff in Chicago and we were both living there, we still use property management for most of the properties, just because, you know, being a property manager is a, is a hassle. It’s a headache. It’s certainly not glamorous. It’s not fun. And to do it the right way, you need a special type of person to do that. And we went through a few property managers at that, but, we found some really good ones in Alabama. and that’s really been.

Brett McCollum (12:17.247)
Love, art of Alabama.

Nate Shields (12:19.266)
This is Northwest Alabama, about an hour west of Huntsville. There’s four cities along the river, the Tennessee River there. University of North Alabama is there in Florence, and then you got Tuscumbe, Sheffield, and Muscle Shoals. And so that collective area is known as the Shoals and it’s a smaller market, but we really like it. We fell into it. I can get into that story of how that happened. Cause since then that’s really been our focus has been.

than in those four cities.

Brett McCollum (12:50.003)
Yeah, well that is a good transition point, because I was gonna say, so you’ve got the personal portfolio and things like that, and now you’ve also been working on, let’s talk about the other side of the business. What else are you working on?

Nate Shields (13:04.353)
Yeah. So, you know, we, we had hit, you know, 40 units, you know, a couple of years back and we were just thinking like, how, how do we, how do we continue to grow, grow the business? and there were a couple of hurdles in our way. you know, one of them being we’re pretty tapped out, right? know, cash cash is needed to buy real estate, typically speaking. it’s great to get those seller finance deals, but yeah, you still have an outlay of cash. So at that point we were fairly tapped out.

Brett McCollum (13:07.061)
.

Brett McCollum (13:15.829)
Mm-hmm.

Nate Shields (13:34.67)
And, we had talked in the past about bringing in other investors. The problem is, that my buddy is, is a financial planner. And so there’s this concept called selling away. So they’re not able to like raise funds for other, you know, projects or securities or businesses without being an RIA. So he had to jump through a ton of hoops, took him probably six months and he took on a little bit of risk, to even do that. Cause

He didn’t know if his investors would stay with him and things like that, but he knew he wanted to grow this other side of the business, you know, moving more towards that syndication model, bring other investors to co-invest with us. So about a year and a half ago, that’s when we started that. And in the past nine months, we’ve bought two properties, a 55 unit and a 71 unit. We’ve raised about $9 million. We’ve got about 80 investors.

Brett McCollum (14:13.845)
Right.

Brett McCollum (14:26.354)
wow.

Nate Shields (14:31.55)
And the goal moving forward is really to buy one to two assets per year and keep going that way.

Brett McCollum (14:39.647)
So nine months ago, huh?

Nate Shields (14:43.018)
Nine. Yeah. Last summer, we closed on the 55 unit. was our first one. And then, in G this is also in, Alabama, it’s in, in Florence, Alabama. Yeah. So everything is concentrated down there at the moment. we are looking at some other opportunities in South Carolina at, right now, but yeah, everything is, is there. We, we, like I said, we, it’s a great market. We kind of stumbled into it, how we stumbled into it. we, we found a 20 unit building on loop net.

Brett McCollum (14:47.369)
Mm-hmm. And this is where.

Brett McCollum (14:53.023)
Yeah, love it.

Nate Shields (15:12.31)
And, and usually, you know, most people say that’s where deals go to die, but my, my buddy found it and the numbers were so horribly bad. He’s like this, there’s no way this could, could make sense. So he, did a little extra digging and once he got the tax returns and figure out what was going on, it showed that they were actually only reporting half of the income on the property. So we ended up buying this 20 unit, you know, for well under ask and,

When we went down there for the due diligence, we’re more interested in learning about the area. And then if we’re going to retain the property manager that had already been managing the property for seven years, and we just, hit it off with him. And ever since then we’ve been working, with him and his property management company. And he’s been a huge part of our success because not only does he do a great job of managing these properties for us, but he has brought us the last four deals we’ve purchased. So he’s been our, our, our bird dog, so to speak, in that market.

Brett McCollum (16:06.282)
Wow.

Brett McCollum (16:14.316)
That’s it, right? You hit the sweet spot right there. You found the right team, right? You can do so much on your own with your partner, right? In the owner’s box, but without the team, man, like that’s where I think it’s a special, special, special thing you found there. And like you said, it attributes to lot of the success you’re having. So the Shoals there, you know, that whole area.

I’m pretty familiar with the area in general overall. I’m curious though, was it literally just that mistake on Loopnet that got you there or how did you get into that market?

Nate Shields (16:53.31)
It really was that it was once we get that under contract and we went on our due diligence trip, we knew what the condition of the building was. We knew it wasn’t anything special, know, C, C minus, not, not, not necessarily the best asset in the world, but it was a great deal. And we wanted to just know more about the area itself. And so we did ton of driving around, you know, talk to people, get to know the neighborhoods, get to know the cities. And we were just impressed. we, we didn’t know what, what it was going to be like. We didn’t know if it was going to be kind of small and

Poe dunker food, but yeah, I mean, there’s, there’s like new shopping centers and Publix and you know, all sorts of great stuff. just a mile from the apartment building. Plus you got the university there. So, we really loved the area. And then, like I said, the second piece was, was do we keep this property manager? Because it would be a pretty heavy lift to, you know, get that building under contract and go to purchase and then have to find property management, you know, cause it is a smaller area. are.

Of course, other property managers or you could build your own team or use a realtor or something like that. But, we just had so, so much confidence in his ability. Plus he had already managed it for so long. we, we felt good on all the fronts and that’s why we, we, we, we moved forward.

Brett McCollum (18:09.267)
Very good, yeah. And how are you guys able to like, was it through syndication? How did you guys, like what’s been the process like for acquiring, you know, these types of buildings?

Nate Shields (18:21.932)
Yeah. So that one in particular, that was still, you know, just me and my buddy, we really actually got a hundred percent financing on it because we had a line of credit and then the bank did the rest and it’s still cashflowed. So that, I mean, that, that’s how good of a deal it was. so yeah, it, but that shortly after that, you know, we bought a few other, smaller multis and things like that in the area, but then we were tapped out. yes, now, now it’s.

Brett McCollum (18:34.034)
Wow.

Nate Shields (18:49.25)
The syndication model is primarily what we’re, you know, invested in because you’re just able to buy bigger, better, more interesting deals. and you’re able to bring a lot of friends and family and, and newcomers in to invest alongside of us. And we, we couldn’t think of a better way to, you know, kind of affect our network, that way, but they can partner with us and join us on this journey.

because we have a pretty big vision for it as well.

Brett McCollum (19:20.073)
Yeah, it’s the key word, there’s the vision, right? You’ve got to make sure that vision’s cast nice and why. What is the biblical principle? Write the vision down, make it plain that he who sees it can run with it, right?

Nate Shields (19:33.422)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (19:37.269)
I’m gonna ask you a tough question if that’s okay. All right, syndication in general. You guys just started nine months ago. So rates have already hit, taxes, insurance, all the things that everybody’s struggling with now in today’s market have already happened. A lot of the people that I talked to maybe started their syndication stuff in like COVID, 2020, 2021, rates are low, insurance hasn’t spiked yet, this and the other. And now, maybe they were on adjustable rates and stuff and those…

They’re getting pounded. How are you guys protecting yourselves on these syndications and these deals that you’re doing from the 7-8 % interest and the insurance and the tax? Like how are you guys protecting yourselves on the deals you’re doing?

Nate Shields (20:22.562)
Yeah, I love that. I love that question. well, the part of the reason we got into it is because we kind of saw the writing on the wall. We knew that a lot of people had taken out, you know, bridge debt, you know, adjustable debt that was going to be due in two or three years. And then of course we saw interest rates go from nothing to, know, where they are today, you know, very, very high. And so we knew that there’s going to be opportunity. There could be some distress in the market, but we also knew that, it would

Brett McCollum (20:29.268)
it

Nate Shields (20:51.982)
kind of, um, you know, get some people out of the market that shouldn’t have been there in the first place, probably. Um, uh, and, and so it’s, it’s, it’s a combination of those factors, but we, we take, uh, you know, risk is really everything in real estate to us. And so we try to mitigate as much risk as possible. Now what’s the easiest way to mitigate risk, uh, take on as little debt as possible and make sure it’s fixed for as long as possible. So when we’re buying these assets, we’re not putting down, you know,

20, 30%, like a lot of these other groups were doing, we are putting down 50, 55%. So we have cashflow right out of the gate and we have that barrier of protection there. And then we put it on long-term fixed rate debt. And then we know that if rates ever do become more favorable, we will have the opportunity to refinance. But in the meantime, we just want that safety net.

And just that ability to cashflow along the way will wait out the market trends and along that trend line that we see, we’ll just buy as much as we can. And with that same strategy, because that strategy will work in just about any market. If you have long-term debt fixed rate, and then you’re putting enough cash into the deal, you’ll be just fine.

Brett McCollum (22:03.785)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (22:09.365)
Yeah, that’s perfect. And that’s what I was, I kind of thought you might go that direction. So the strategy it sounds like, let’s make sure I understand it right is when you’re raising capital, you know, for the, you know, the syndication, it’s largely to put a heavy chunk down, you know, like you said, was it 50, 55 %? that what we’re saying? Yeah. And that’s simply to get, keep the debt down. Is that correct as well?

Nate Shields (22:31.02)
Right. Yep. Yep.

Nate Shields (22:39.618)
Yeah, it keeps your exposure on the debt side lower and it allows you to cashflow from day one. We were able to give distributions within the first three months on the first deal because of that strategy. Whereas with other syndications, depending on what the business model is too, we weren’t doing any heavy value add. These were newer buildings, less than 10 years old. So there was no capex, there was no value add component to it.

other groups might go in with a heavy value add on maybe an older product and you’re not going to get any returns for maybe 18 months, two years while they’re doing the renovations, leasing it back up. And then you get a chunk at the end if they’re repositioning it or deciding to hold it. But we look at it more like owners because we like to own real estate. not in the flipping game. I think that’s what a lot of people were doing in the syndication space because rates were low, money was easy to find.

Brett McCollum (23:15.413)
Right.

Nate Shields (23:33.122)
They could, I saw groups turning around deals in as little as 13 months. Like that, that’s just not, it’s not normal. And anytime you see indicators like that, know, something’s off and you need to proceed with caution.

Brett McCollum (23:48.221)
Yeah, I love that. I got one final question for you. how did, because you were doing that on the personal side, growing your own portfolio on the personal side, how did you maybe learn on the syndication side of things? it the like, where did you, because I mean, I’m just gonna syndicate, know, like, how did you kind of learn that?

Nate Shields (24:08.942)
Yeah, it’s, um, you know, it’s all about education. Really. I it’s, it does come down to that with, with real estate. And I think that’s why I’ve been in real estate as long as I have. And I, I’m never going to stop is because I’m always learning something new, uh, every day, you know, even people have been in the business for decades. They’re, learning something new every day. Like it’s just the market changes, the trends change. Uh, there might be new technology, um, you know, whatever it is, but yeah, I think, you know, we started talking about it.

Brett McCollum (24:22.431)
Mm-hmm.

Nate Shields (24:38.08)
And we kind of knew the gist of the model, but there’s still, it’s a big gap, you know, from buying single families to like, you know, doing a reg D filing that’s, you know, regulated by the sec. so, you know, one thing that was a huge help for us and we, actually, give this book, the hands off investor by Brian Burke. We give this book to all of our investors. but it’s also great, great for GPS as well.

Brett McCollum (24:51.219)
Yeah. Yep.

Brett McCollum (25:02.773)
Mm-hmm.

Nate Shields (25:06.786)
Because you know it focuses on on what what questions should LPs be asking of the GPs in the deal But it also goes into things that the GP should be doing as well So I’ve read this book several times at this point and there’s just a lot of good resources in that So if you’re looking to just be a passive limited partner, I would recommend starting there Just so you know what to look out for and it’s more about you know The jockey not the horse right if it’s more about the sponsor than it is about the deal

Brett McCollum (25:32.895)
Yeah.

Nate Shields (25:35.064)
The deal still matters because you’re gonna want it to align with your mid and longer term goals, but really it’s gonna be the sponsor that you’re gonna have to understand how to vet and work with them. So it’s a great resource for all those things.

Brett McCollum (25:48.031)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (25:51.625)
Yeah, that’s incredible. man, this has been phenomenal. If people are gonna wanna reach out and connect with you and learn more, that sort of thing, what do think the best way for that would be?

Nate Shields (26:02.252)
Yeah, definitely go to our website. It’s just missional.group. And just a quick aside about our name, missional. We’re kind of mission focused. We have, you know, not only do I look at it kind of three pillars. have, you know, we want to provide great returns for our investors. We want to provide quality properties for our residents and we want to, you know, give back, right? And so

for every investor that comes alongside of us, out of our own pocket, we will donate to charity to, you know, something that aligns with what we like, but usually we have, you know, a bunch of options where people can give to things like World Vision or Feed My Starving Children or whatever it is, Habitat for Humanity. And we’ve already given, we’ve already written checks for over $25,000 in the last nine months to those charities. So that’s kind of…

Brett McCollum (26:53.151)
Wow.

Nate Shields (26:57.294)
part of our mission is to be socially minded and mission minded, not just money minded.

Brett McCollum (27:04.041)
Incredible man, that’s incredible. Yeah, we’ll make sure we get that in the show notes as well, right? and guys I Strongly encourage you to connect with that because what a great vision and what you’re doing and and just I mean It’s just a short amount of time and I know it’s still for lack of a better way to say early days and some of this with the But you’ve got the vision you made it plain. You know what you’re doing. You’ve got you know, and you’re running with it, man. It’s just

I like to say this to people because not a lot of guys get told this anymore and it’s unfortunate, but dude, I’m proud of you, What you’re doing, where you’re going, it’s really cool. Yeah. Sincerely, man, thanks for being on the show, sharing everything and I really, thanks for being here, man.

Nate Shields (27:38.094)
Yeah, I appreciate that. Appreciate that.

Nate Shields (27:47.692)
Yeah, thanks, Brad. A lot of fun.

Brett McCollum (27:50.003)
Yeah, perfect. Well guys, this has been a great episode. I appreciate you guys also hanging out with us, time, and we will catch you guys on the next one. Take care, everybody.