The Future of Wholesaling in 2025: Adapt or Get Left Behind!

Brett McCollum (00:00.609)
All right, guys, welcome back to the show. I am your host, Brett McCollum, and I’m here today with J.W. Epstein. And today we’re going to be talking about wholesaling in 2025. Before we get to that, guys, at InvestorFuel, we help real estate investors, service providers and real estate entrepreneurs to 2 to 5x their businesses to allow them to build the businesses they’ve always wanted and allow them to live the lives they’ve always dreamed of. Without further ado, J.W. Hari, man.

JW Epstein (00:26.732)
Man, I’m wonderful. It’s good to see you. It’s good catching up before the show. So, no, I’m awesome. How are you?

Brett McCollum (00:33.035)
Doing good, man. Thanks. Yeah, we it was a good catch. You know, we have a lot. I’m excited to get into all the conversation we’re going to have today. It’s one I definitely think we’ll have a lot of high level, you know, things to discover and talk about. Right. But before we get into all that, like, let’s get some history, some background, that sort of thing. Who’s JW FC?

JW Epstein (00:52.898)
Yeah, so I’m, I was in the car business for 20 years, 20 plus years before, before I got into real estate, dabbled in real estate there, there at the end of, of my career in the car business. And, you know, COVID decimated inventory levels. So kind of, kind of pushed me out, if you will. And I just didn’t know what I wanted to do after that. I thought I wanted to sell insurance and that was, that was boring.

I see some people selling houses on Facebook and stuff and it kind of peaked an interest and started researching. like, man, these guys are buying houses and selling houses. I can do that. It’s just like cars. And it is. It’s the same. I’ve got a wife and three kids. We homeschool. So if somebody runs behind me here, then you’ll know why.

Brett McCollum (01:48.897)
yeah.

JW Epstein (01:49.88)
But yeah, so I wholesale, I’ve got some rental properties and just anything involving real estate, that’s kind of what I do.

Brett McCollum (02:02.527)
Incredible. Yeah, I mean, I definitely got a lot of things to go back. Let’s start here though. So as a if I also have children running behind me and around same thing we have I have four children. We also homeschool. So man, do I understand that you’re in here, you’re recording your shoot, you know, we’re doing this show and it’s like any given moment you’re kind of like, like every day or what people don’t see is the cameras right in front of us, right?

JW Epstein (02:17.251)
Okay.

Brett McCollum (02:31.487)
and they don’t see what’s going on behind the camera sometimes. And you see your kids like running around just being, I’m like, my gosh, know. So do I understand that life man, completely. But yeah, so let’s kind of rewind back a little bit. You were in the car business. How long were you in that business for?

JW Epstein (02:48.75)
21, 22 years, something like a long time. mean, right out of college, I started selling cars and promoted. I went into FNI and sales manager. I was a general manager for a short period of time. And yeah.

Brett McCollum (02:50.689)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (03:05.345)
Yeah. Wow. That’s I mean, yeah, as a thousand. That’s I was going to ask you is like, you know, how far along into that did you get so as the GM side of things, right?

JW Epstein (03:15.137)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Brett McCollum (03:17.28)
So you’ve been in this, mean, car sales is different, But it’s also sales is sales is sales, I will say that. But the volume nature of it, know, you know, I have a lot of questions and I think we’ll pull on that in relation to real estate here in a moment. But what did it, I guess, what did it feel like? 2020 hits inventory gets kind of weird, you know, and.

and you mentioned being pushed out kind of thing. Can you draw on that a little bit more? What do you mean by that?

JW Epstein (03:52.248)
Yeah, so I was at just a small local dealership here in Amarillo, independent, and I was the newest guy there brought on to open up a value lot, so higher mileage cars. And I saw the writing on the wall, I six months before, mean, things were changing and cars were getting shorter to come by. And about six months before,

Bobby let me go. went to him. was like, do I need to start looking for a job? He’s like, no, everything’s going to be great. Like we’re, all good. And, uh, you know, he came to me at the 1st of December and he was, he was in tears. He was like, you’ve been in business for 20 years. And he’s like, I gotta let you go. And I was like, I know. mean, I I’d been in the business forever. I mean, like I, I saw the writing on the wall. There was nothing. Um, and I had made a promise to my wife that if, you know, that was my last stop. I was like,

No more. something ever happens here, if I ever leave, if anything happens, I’ll get out. And it was God closing that door to open another one for me is what it was. So when I say I got pushed out, I mean, was it was God pushing me, pushing me out the window is what it was and telling me to, you know, to trust and and take the next step.

Brett McCollum (05:04.395)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (05:10.773)
Dude, that’s real though. that is, I feel that on a deep level, right? Because there’s things that happen in our lives that when we’re going through it, there’s these moments of like, what is happening right now? Because I, as a father and a husband myself, I know what that was like to like, have been through that. And in the moment, I don’t know about you man, but I’m not thinking God’s closing a door so he can open another one. I’m not thinking that.

I’m thinking, my God, how am gonna take care of my wife and my kids and all these things? I don’t know about you, but that’s where my mind would go to start racing. And yes, it leads to this thing that we’re doing now why we’re even talking today, but in the moment, it’s just like, what’s happening right now? Like, this is all I’ve known. This is what I’ve, you almost build an identity around it. You know? Yeah.

JW Epstein (06:04.494)
100%. No, I mean, it took me a while to figure out, I mean, to get my butt back in gear. And it was hard, I’m not gonna lie.

Brett McCollum (06:14.977)
Yeah, that’s not easy. know, and I want so many people are like, also, like, I’m a believer, I’m right there with you. I will tell you this. So often in the Christian faith, you hear a lot of people just saying, you know, the cliches, let go and let God, you know, or it’s just, you just have to trust God, JW, it’s gonna be okay, you know, and you hear all this stuff, and I’m not trying to like, make fun of it, because that’s not wrong. But like,

Man, is that not the easiest thing to preach and the hardest thing to walk out, right? It’s like, I can hear it all I want, but like, practically, I don’t know how to do that because I’ve never been here before.

JW Epstein (06:48.846)
100%.

JW Epstein (06:53.57)
Right, yeah, let me tell you, but I don’t want to tell myself.

Brett McCollum (06:57.471)
Yeah, that is when I tell you I relate to that man, it’s a I mean, golly, do I ever. But I can also say, having been through that and going through some things now in our business, it is a very easy thing to speak out of your mouth when you don’t know what the future is as on the other side.

JW Epstein (07:17.59)
like every day in business. Like it’s not. I mean it’s just a it’s an everyday thing right? I mean you’ve seen the you’ve seen the the deal on to be an entrepreneur it’s like okay I’m good and then I’m down below. I mean that’s that’s real life.

Brett McCollum (07:31.327)
Yeah. I know we get into that, like, but here’s the thing is you’ve been in the sales side of things. So you’re effectively, you’ve been an entrepreneur. Yes, you worked for an organization and that wasn’t your own personal like business. But at the end of the day, you’ve had to, and it’s like this with real estate, the eat what you kill, what you eat or eat, what you kill that you have to kill your own food to eat it kind of thing in sales. And you’ve been doing that for 20 plus years before that.

What does that look like when you’re transitioning into the real estate world and it’s the same mentality of you’ve to provide? How did you navigate that whole timeframe?

JW Epstein (08:15.114)
Yeah, so just to step back, mean, sales is a people business. Sales is not sales. I don’t care what it is. I mean, it’s all about people. Business is about people and relationships. And for that, the same when I was selling cars or when I was a manager, whatever it was, you’ve got to connect. So when I would go to a house, it was just what it is. Like, OK, what problem were you trying to solve? You called me. What do you need me to do for you?

How can I help you? What does that look like? And as you’re talking through that, you figure out if I’m the right fit or if I’m not, you make it about the people and the money will always come. I mean, it’s not about the money. The money is a byproduct of even selling cars, selling houses. Money is a byproduct.

Brett McCollum (09:06.537)
Right. Now I couldn’t agree more. One of my mentors would always say, you know, business is easy. People are difficult. And that’s a, when you’re transitioning out of things and you can keep that mentality in the forefront, like, hey, this is still people. You know, I think that’s a healthy outlook. So yeah, you transition. So you’re in the car business, you know,

goes through that, start, when did you really, how long give or take, you know, ballpark was it from when you landed into something in the real estate space after that.

JW Epstein (09:44.94)
Yeah, so I I bought six rentals. I had six rentals. I bought those all at, all at one time. when I was still in the car business, I was, I was doing a little bit of hard money out of my 401k. So it kind of dipped my toe. when I let go, that was in December and, you know, at the end of the, all through December, I studied for my, for my insurance exam. Passed it. I was ready to go and I just hated it. So.

45 days in to that and some waking up at 11, 12 o’clock and just a depression. And then I was like, okay, or my wife told me is like, okay, like that’s enough. And I found PPL and I started buying PPL leads. I mean, it was off to the races. I went all in after that once I, mean, I had a deal first.

five or 10 leads and, and, like it was, it was off to the races. I was like, this is what this is. Let’s go.

Brett McCollum (10:50.433)
Yeah, so you’re roughly into what 2021 or are you still in 2020 at this point?

JW Epstein (10:54.734)
Um, that would have been 2022. Um, so at the end of, I got let go at end of 21. So this was start of 22. Yeah.

Brett McCollum (10:58.177)
22.

Brett McCollum (11:01.897)
okay. Got it, makes more sense now. Okay, yeah, because timeline with PPL was thinking like, when would like, I wasn’t quite that far back, but yeah, 2022, and it started getting hotter and, you know, more traction, you know, PPL guys, if you’re not paper lead, right? So it’s a form of marketing for, if you guys aren’t quite sure what that means, it’s off market opportunities sourced, you know, it can be on market too, like we’ve seen them where they come in, but they’re, you but yeah, so you started doing that.

first 10 leads, get, that’s pretty crazy. when you jumped in, was it in the wholesale space or did you jump into, cause you had some rental property where you thinking of, what was the mindset when you were jumping in? like, I’m going to get more rental property or was it, no, I’m going to do the wholesaling thing. What was the mindset at that point?

JW Epstein (11:46.508)
No, I had to make money. I had to go figure out, had to go buy something to sell it to put food on the table. We didn’t miss any meals, but you don’t make a paycheck for 30 to 45 days and things start getting a little tight around here. So yeah, that’s what that looked like. And again, I just kept pushing to the middle and looking for the next opportunity.

Brett McCollum (11:52.193)
That’s right.

JW Epstein (12:16.128)
and taking it step by step.

Brett McCollum (12:19.349)
Yeah. And did you learn about wholesaling prior to jumping into that or like, or how did you because a lot of people are like, they’re like, wait, this is a thing where like I learned it from, you know, something before, like, how did you come into the knowledge of what wholesaling is?

JW Epstein (12:34.082)
Yeah, I’m glad. I’m glad you asked that. So there was a guy here in Amarillo, Michael Dotson. He’s he’s still one of my mentors. We actually have a small portfolio together, but he had made a post on on Facebook. He’s like, you know, if you’re looking for somebody to teach you teach you about real estate, you know, reach out. And so I reached out and we went and met at a coffee shop. And, know, that was, you know, we had a had a great conversation. He’s like, yeah, you can.

You can do this. you know, so he kind of, we talked through things and he’s like, I’ll always be here. you know, kind of as a, as a backup, if you, you know, if you ever question yourself on a deal, like we’ll go in halves. mean, what, whatever that looks like, he was, he was there to support. And so that, that has grown, through time. And like I said, we’ve got a, we’ve got a portfolio now is, you know, there’s, there’s stuff that fits. There’s stuff that doesn’t fit.

And then there’s stuff you’re like, man, 10 years from now, I’m going to look back and I’m like, why did I sell that house? I’m sure you’ve, you’ve got some experience with that. Um, and so the stuff that we hold together is stuff that we’re like, we were like, man, I’m going to look back 10 years from now and I’m gonna go, I need to keep that. So, um, but yeah, that’s, that’s what, uh, that’s, that’s where I learned.

You know, that’s where I learned wholesaling. You know, later on I learned what an assignment of contract was. did not know what an assignment of contract was for year and a half, I guess.

Brett McCollum (14:06.593)
Wow. Yeah, Texas is a little different even than, you know, other states in the form of some of their rules and regs that they have, right? But yeah, so I did want to talk about it. I’m glad you kind of brought that up. It’s a good kind of segue into this. So I like to have definitions. So my wife and I, you’ve been married to J.W. for a minute. See, we’ve been, you know, I’ve been married for a minute.

Have you ever had the conversations of, or some form of, you said this, well I meant this.

JW Epstein (14:41.418)
Absolutely.

Brett McCollum (14:42.561)
Right? You can be the same word and have two different meanings. You know what I mean? So I think it’s important to let’s define. I wanna hear your thoughts on this, because how I learned wholesaling was not just simply assignment. But it was a wholesale deal is a deal at a discount. That is it. When we start putting, yeah.

JW Epstein (15:07.074)
Well, that’s the definition. Sorry to cut you off. That’s the definition of wholesale. mean, there’s wholesalers in every industry. mean, there’s people that that wholesale groceries. mean, wholesale cars. mean, wholesale is bringing something to someone else at a below market price so that, you know, they can shine it up even more and bring it, you know, bring it to full retail.

Brett McCollum (15:32.011)
That’s it. Yeah, and that’s what I, that’s why I want to spend a little bit of time talking about if we can, because in what you’ve been able to do within your business, it’s pretty cool, you know, and I think too often, you know, people jump on YouTube University or something and just start looking up all these things and it has to, you can’t wholesale possibly without assigning the contract to JW. It’s just not possible. That’s not wholesaling anymore, right?

wrong, right? Tell me, tell me your like what you’re doing more, not to say you don’t assign because I know we’ve talked about that, but you know, largely what it is kind of like, you know, maybe the you know, the Cliff Notes version of the business model.

JW Epstein (16:12.152)
Sure. So, you know, met with Michael and obviously people don’t, some of the hesitancy of people getting in real estate is like, I don’t have any money. Well, the money finds the deal. Like it’s hard to find the deal. Finding the deal is hard. You go find a deal, I’ll find the money. I mean, there’s plenty of people, you’ve got to be in the right circles. You’ve got to know, you’ve got to know, but you know, you just get the money. went to the bank and, you know, got started with a line of credit.

Brett McCollum (16:20.033)
Mm-hmm.

JW Epstein (16:42.142)
there’s hard money out there. There’s, plenty of people that, that have money if you can, if you can bring the deals because there’s, there’s not everybody that can bring, bring the deal. there’s a lot of wholesale deals that, that get brought to me, you know, now, and I don’t even look at them a second time because they’re not, they’re not even close. and it’s just a lack of understanding. Like you said, YouTube university, they’re like, you just go and get a property under contract and then you go sell it to somebody. It’s not that easy.

Brett McCollum (17:11.797)
Yeah, yeah. So what do do now? How do you get around? What is the method that you like to practice?

JW Epstein (17:18.318)
I I’ve got a line of credit at the bank that that I use now. so I I’m taking these properties down. Yeah, I take down I would say 70 to 80 % of everything, that I get under contract is I take down. and I as a practice, there’s exceptions to everything, but as a practice, I did not write a contract that I do not intend to close on.

Brett McCollum (17:22.753)
if you’re taking them down.

JW Epstein (17:45.422)
I might wholesale that property in the meantime, but I intend to close. I advertise that I’m going to close and when I show up, that’s the whole conversation. How quick do need this done? So yeah.

Brett McCollum (18:00.769)
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. So you’re taking them down and then we’re still wholesaling, but it’s not via assignment. So in the practice, like in the, everybody wants a definition or a term for what, you know, we call it. So you’re, calling it wholesaling, right? Like wholesale retail, you know, take it out at wholesale price, put it on the open market and let the open market bid on what they think that wholesale property, you know, as is, is worth. Is that, am I kind of getting close to that? Is that how you’re doing it?

JW Epstein (18:30.798)
No, that’s 100%. I mean, I’ll buy the property. I’ll clean it up, clean it out. Shampoo carpets, maybe just take the carpets out because they’re so nasty and it looks better without them. yeah, I’ll just get it cleaned up, clean up the yard a little bit and spend very little to any, if any money at all.

and then bring it to the market, whether that be on Facebook. I mean, there’s some properties that I’ll market myself on Facebook. there’s people with cash, depends on the price of the house. And there’s people with cash that have access to cash that are looking for deals, because they can’t find them anywhere else.

Brett McCollum (19:14.197)
Yeah, so I have a couple ideas around that, why this is super powerful, right? And you have an ability to take these property. By the way, guys, you all have the ability to take the property down too. I think there’s a limited belief on, hey, if I take it down and I list it for sale, what if it doesn’t sell? And now I’m left holding the bag on this. Because let’s say you went with hard money and you’ve got a mortgage payment due every month, and maybe you don’t have the money to keep that mortgage payment afloat, right? There’s some limiting beliefs on that.

What have you been seeing on, like, because the market, you know, here where I live in Florida, days on market are taking a little longer, but in the wholesale market, because they’re too, like, it’s a little different. Are you seeing any effect on that at this point, or what’s going on with that on your side of things?

JW Epstein (20:00.31)
I mean, you can effectively wholesale anything if you have it at the right price. So, I mean, we’ve got ARV and then we have market price. You have to be able to identify what the market price of the house is and then back it up from there and back into your spread. So, I mean, everybody wants to talk about ARV and then they want to go find the highest ARV on the block and be like, okay, well, this is my ARV.

Brett McCollum (20:27.85)
my God.

JW Epstein (20:30.062)
Okay, that’s great. I mean, how much money is it going to take to get it there? And then I want to bring houses to the market to provide affordable housing. There’s people that do not necessarily need all the things that I’m going to put in a house. I’m not rip flooring out that somebody else would have been perfectly content with. So why do I need to spend extra money to go in and put something that I like that somebody else isn’t going to like? Go paint every single thing.

I can go buy my wife a million dollar house tomorrow. Guess what we’re going to do? We’re going to paint it.

Brett McCollum (21:04.929)
Sure, of course. Yeah, so are you seeing any effect on how long it’s taking to get these properties sold after you take them down?

JW Epstein (21:14.83)
Not necessary, not really. Maybe a little bit. It all depends on the price that I’m trying to get for it. I if I keep my, I get greedy every once in a while, I’m not gonna lie. But I know that going in. I’m like, okay, that’s probably more than what that house is gonna bring. Let’s try it, let’s see. I can adjust the price in a couple of weeks. So I’m seeing that it’s a little.

Brett McCollum (21:22.209)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (21:29.256)
You know it.

JW Epstein (21:43.534)
Obviously, it’s slower than it was two years ago, a year and half ago. But I’m not seeing a ton of downtime. I think it’s all in pricing and bringing the right deal to the market. That’s my opinion.

Brett McCollum (21:46.529)
Sure. Yeah.

Brett McCollum (21:56.74)
Yeah. That’s going to be here, right? You know, the retail market, right, that is much slower right now. You know, the retail market is, I think the wholesale market is still moving, you know, because like we’ve said earlier, it’s like you have a value that you’re bringing to the market of it’s discounted property is fewer and further between than it’s ever been. Right. Now, where on the contrast, the retail market, at least where I live, is arguably higher than it’s been in

probably 15 years, 18 years, right? It’s been since the pre-08 stuff that the inventory levels have been where they’re at locally for me. But the market still is, there’s a lot of missing gaps. So here’s my theory, and I’m curious to what you think about this. Why take them down, as to why you should take them down and list them in retail, okay? Or list them as, like list them in the open market. me rephrase that.

JW Epstein (22:33.422)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (22:53.921)
So we’re taught in the wholesale business on the assignment side of things is to build a buyer’s list, right? You build your buyer’s list, you get a deal under contract, and then I start hitting the phone, say, J.W., I got this property for sale, you’re interested, da-da-da-da, let me go check it out. And then you start going down that path, so on and so forth, right? And then hopefully you get two or three people that say, yeah, I’m interested, and then, okay, I have a showing on Saturday at 10 o’clock, and you can make it out. Okay, yeah, can make it out.

Then hopefully you get those three people out there and those three people walk the house and then they like, maybe they’ll talk, my gosh. And then they’d able to be against each other and okay, I’ll pay it, right? That’s kind of what you’re taught, more or less, know, quick version. What’s interesting though is when you bring these deals to the market, those same people are seeing your property also.

and they know that it’s not off market at that point. And so they know they have to take action or they won’t get it because it’s on the market. My theory is as to why maybe you’re able to keep moving things out of faster and still moving these properties is because at the end of the day, I know investors, you know investors.

JW Epstein (23:52.3)
Absolutely.

Brett McCollum (24:07.615)
And the mentality of the investor is, don’t want to lose out on that deal.

JW Epstein (24:10.828)
Absolutely. But as you bring value to the market, people recognize. I mean, I get calls, I get calls like, hey, what do you, what do you got? What do you got coming up? Like I need something. So then that actually puts more pressure because like, I got it. I got it. Now, not only do I have the seller that needs help, now I’ve got guys that are looking for stuff. And so, you know that, but that’s where that comes from. And when somebody sees that you have something,

Brett McCollum (24:16.481)
100%.

Brett McCollum (24:40.342)
Yeah.

JW Epstein (24:40.628)
and they know that you’re going to sell it, then I mean, it’s going to move just like you said, because they don’t want to miss out. They’re like, OK, he’s got it. It’s priced right. I mean, I got to move. I got to take action.

Brett McCollum (24:51.211)
Yeah, and I think that’s, a, it may have been fortuitous that you did not know how to assign for a long time, right? Because those of us that were taught assignments only, that was like a terrifying thing to like, I gotta take it down. Because now I have this, the sale side of the pitch on assignments is, hey, there’s not, you don’t have the same risk associated because you don’t actually own it at that point.

JW Epstein (24:59.096)
Sure.

Brett McCollum (25:19.283)
And you’re mitigating risk by doing this. And that it’s not wrong. But I think there’s a lot of people like, especially wholesaling in today’s market where deals are harder to come by. Man, I think people are missing the boat.

JW Epstein (25:35.294)
Yeah, you definitely need to be able to comp and underwrite when you’re going to take a property down. You need to have some backing. mean, you need to have some understanding of that. But it just takes research and time to figure out and learn.

Brett McCollum (25:52.521)
Yeah, I’m asking you one more question. I’m curious on this one, especially because you know, you’ve been around like for a while now doing this and you’ve done, you know, a lot of deals and you’re seeing all the different people talk about different things, right? So an objection I’m sure our audience might be thinking about would be, what about novations, JW? Why would you not just novate the deal and be able to use the market the same way as you would a whole tail without ever having to take it?

Why not for you? Why would you not do that?

JW Epstein (26:25.72)
for me personally, it just seems disingenuous. I mean, if you disclose anything, then I mean, you’re okay, it’s most of the people that I talk to, have a problem that needs to be solved quicker than that. I mean, there’s a time and place for everything. Don’t get me wrong. But it just does not, just doesn’t seem like if I’m gonna do, if I’m gonna do innovation, then I’m gonna go in and I’m actually gonna.

make repairs on the house, get the house, bring some value to the house for me. That’s my opinion. I’m sure that’s a, I’m in the minority there, but.

Brett McCollum (27:03.389)
Yeah. I don’t think so. And I’m so glad you said what you said because it’s time. Right. So back to that mentor I was telling you about, you can in a wholesale transaction, any way you want to define it for real estate. Let me let me go back to that for real estate in a wholesale transaction. You can have three things as a part of it. You can have speed, convenience and price. You can pick two. You cannot have all three. Typically in our in our world, they’re trading

price for speed and convenience. Nine times out of 10. And the true motivated, quote unquote, motivated seller that we talked to has a time constraint of some kind. If they don’t, it’s probably not a deal that we’re gonna do a wholesale transaction on. Probably. So I think identifying that from the beginning, if there’s time is the issue, which is most people, by the way, PPL, direct mail,

cold calling, whatever your method of marketing is, who is the person raising their hand saying, I want to my house for cash? Like not a normal situation, right? So I go, I have to put that in my head and go like, well, if time is their thing, why in the world would I put them into a contract that says I need 90 days?

JW Epstein (28:22.267)
So Brett earlier you said, you know, you had someone tell you that business is easy. People are hard. If I can, if I can eliminate the people, the fewer, that I can eliminate, that just makes it easier for me. Does it add, does it add other layers of complexity? Absolutely. But if I can eliminate the seller from that situation and not have to, I’d have to deal with them on that side of it, just get the transaction done.

get their problem solved, let them go on with what they need to go on with.

Brett McCollum (28:54.079)
Yeah, I love that. Well, man, I know you and I could keep doing this back and forth for a while, because we kind of do a lot of the same things and trading thoughts back and forth, but I love everything about what you’re doing. Is there any way, though, that people want to follow along, get to know you a little bit more? What’s the best way for people to connect with you?

JW Epstein (29:10.648)
Sure. So I’m on Facebook, JW Epstein, Instagram at the JW Epstein. And then if you’ve got a deal in Amarillo, call me, me a text, 806-681-5167. So I’ll get that one. I’ll get that one the best and the fastest.

Brett McCollum (29:28.127)
Incredible man. Yeah guys will have that in the show notes and I encourage you guys all to connect with JW and you don’t be sorry You did I mean, I love everything about what you’re doing man. It’s and it’s been really really really fun talking with you

JW Epstein (29:39.796)
I appreciate it. No, it’s awesome. Thank you, Brett.

Brett McCollum (29:41.611)
Yeah, well guys, it’s been a great episode. Thanks for hanging out with us today and we’ll see each of you on the next one. Take care everybody.