SEO for Real Estate Investors: Rank on Google & AI Search with Bryan Sekine

Bryan Sekine (00:00)
I think the biggest advantage for organic growth really lies in review generation. And

This is something that people can’t easily outsource for you, but it’s one of those things that like truly is pouring gasoline on a fire. So I think it’s important that everyone has a really well fine-tuned website that acts as the central hub for all marketing efforts. But the thing that AI platforms are particularly emphasizing these days, and I don’t see this changing in the near future, is the importance of having third-party verified reviews. So don’t just put a testimonial on your website.

Scott Bursey (02:08)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros Podcast, powered by Investor Fuel. I’m your host, Scott Bursey. And pros, we’re sitting down today with Bryan Sekine a nationally recognized SEO expert and the co-founder of Fox and Owl Marketing. Bryan and his wife, Jenny, have built an agency that’s completely energizing the space with a focus on radical transparency, honest reporting, and frequent communication.

Today we’re going to dive deep into the future of search, how to get your business found on Google, and how to position yourself to be cited by the next generation of AI tools like ChatGPT, Claude, and Perplexity. Bryan, welcome to the show.

Bryan Sekine (02:50)
Thanks, Scott. Glad to be here.

Scott Bursey (02:52)
It’s just wonderful having you here, my friend. And Bryan, to help our pros get up to speed, please give us the ninety second highlight reel, if you will, on how your career ignited and where you’re pouring your fuel now.

Bryan Sekine (03:05)
Sure. So my career really started back in 2018. My wife and I co-founded Fox and Owl Marketing. Originally it was an agency that did social media marketing for event-based businesses, and we did website design as well. Unfortunately, when COVID hit, all of that came to a screeching halt. We had to take a couple of years pursuing ⁓ you know, salary careers. ⁓ and that’s when I discovered Carrot. And so I was hired by CareT as their SEO specialist and worked there for two years.

That was my first real introduction into real estate investing as an industry. But during that time I realized that there was a growing need for SEO agencies that had someone who was a certified SEO with experience in previous ⁓ industries that could apply that knowledge into the real estate investor community. And so at that point, my wife and I had a discussion, we decided to quit our jobs and reignite our agency. And ⁓ but this time we did it through the lens of SEO services and web design.

Services for real estate investors specifically. That’ll happen in 2014, and ⁓ we’ve been growing and pouring all our fuel into it ever since then.

Scott Bursey (04:11)
Wow, how exciting. And Bryan, what really caught my attention about you was the way you’ve been able to build Fox and Owl Marketing on a foundation of absolute integrity, proving that doing things the right way with honest reporting actually drives better results than the old school agency games. And with that in mind, we love to hear how did the decision to focus on transparency over quick wins

change the trajectory of your business growth.

Bryan Sekine (04:42)
Yeah, I think that a lot of existing agencies will focus on quick wins and shortcuts in order to gain some pretty early traction. But what we heard from a lot of investors is that and the story was pretty basically the same regardless of who they were working with, they the initial onboarding and the initial impressions were good, they got some good early results, but over time those results really started to dwindle.

And ⁓ they’d say things like, My keyword rankings dropped, the organic traffic really fell off, I wasn’t getting leads anymore, and then eventually it just stopped working altogether. And they felt like they’d invested a lot of money in it and lot of time and they weren’t seeing that sort of classic SEO phenomenon of of the slow and steady progress, but having to be producing consistent leads over time. You know, so they w they weren’t getting the kinds of things that Trevor Mock and Carrot were talking about, where you have a reliable

source coming in and so that’s that’s what we knew from experience with past clients and that’s what we you know practiced and preached and implemented for clients and so for us it was a a big part of educating investors and saying hey you know first 90 days maybe even first six months you’re probably not gonna see a massive influx of leads but we will be building things in the website that is a true asset that’s gonna be exponentially you know generating authority and trust for your site and your brand over time and at some

point you’re going to hit that like tipping point where that snowball has accumulated so much mass rolling down the hill that it becomes an unstoppable force. And at that point you’re going to start generating these leads, maybe the highest quality, most motivated leads that you get from any marketing platform. And the best part is that it becomes consistent month over month. So you can rely on X number of leads coming in from this point moving forward. And so after experiencing this with clients you know several times we’ve kind of

Bake that into our whole ethos at Fox and Owl Marketing. And that’s, I think, for us been a big differentiating factor between us and other agencies.

Scott Bursey (06:41)
Bryan, curious to know, what do you see as the greatest strength of your current SEO strategy for real estate investors in today’s market?

Bryan Sekine (07:37)
Yeah, the I think our greatest strength is being able to implement the more technical side of SEO, specifically as it pertains to AI optimizations. So people call it AIO, GEO. ⁓

There’s lots of different terms for it, lots of different acronyms, but it’s effectively rooted in SEO. And so when you can do really good SEO work and you understand the technical components and how it that differs for each of the AI platforms, that’s really been a a big bonus for us in terms of being able to get these quicker AI wins for people while still being rooted in the in the long-term classical SEO approach.

Scott Bursey (08:12)
How do you maintain that edge when the search landscape changes so rapidly?

Bryan Sekine (08:18)
Very good question. We actually have several people on our team that are constantly hunting for that edge on a monthly basis. And so in addition to following, you know, major nationwide SEO agencies that talk about these changes, we also do a lot of our own internal research as well. So one of the nice parts about having the number of clients that we do is that we get to see what’s working in different markets all across the country. And so we can do our own kind of checks and balances to make sure that something that’s working for a client in the Midwest

you know, may not be working for a client in the East Coast or in the West Coast. And so what we’re doing is identifying patterns, you know, across thirty-five plus different websites at any given time and seeing what’s working across the board. And that’s how we’re able to determine like, you know, are the headline news, is it just, you know, clickbait, is it real? You know, but we’re able to test that internally a lot.

Scott Bursey (09:08)
It would be great to understand what do you perceive as the biggest weakness or perhaps blind spot most real estate investors have when they try to handle their own online marketing?

Bryan Sekine (09:20)
Yeah, I’d say the biggest one is probably lead attribution, especially from AI channels. So what ends up happening is that, you know, let’s say your website is ranking on ChatGPT. So you type in the the query or the prompt, you get the response back. It mentions your brand name, but it doesn’t have a link to your website. Or it may mention your phone number, but it’s not a click to call. Or it’s not a link to your website, right? So then what ends up happening is they’ll either, you know, punch their phone.

Phone in from their computer screen onto their phone, which means there’s no way to trace it, to call you, or they will type in your brand name on Google search or DuckDuckGo or Bing or something like that. And so when they fill out the form, it comes in as a either direct traffic or it comes in as an organic search lead. And so it’s really, really difficult to attribute the efforts of AI optimization and connect that to number of leads generated or number of deals closed or revenue produced. And so for us it’s

It’s kind of like a constantly moving target and it changes subtly with each different platform. And so I’d say overall lead attribution is probably our biggest weakness, specifically from AI platforms. There are ways that we can, you know, get close to ⁓ like a higher percentage of accuracy. So obviously some people do click through from Chat GPT to the web forms. Sometimes people will say on the phone that they found you on Claude or Perplexity, but it’s it’s definitely a back and forth collaborative effort between us and

and the client to really hone in on that attribution part.

Scott Bursey (10:51)
What is the first thing they should outsource to fix or stop losing potential leads?

Bryan Sekine (10:56)
Mm.

That’s a good question.

I would say ⁓ i well, I should ask, is it is this from ⁓ marketing in general or is this for SEO specifically?

Scott Bursey (11:06)
SEO and reaching out to you, what would you suggest to increase their leads?

Bryan Sekine (11:11)
Gotcha. ⁓ I would say

To outsource, like SEO in general should probably be outsourced. It’s changing pretty rapidly these days. ⁓ Google’s launching new updates about every ninety days, whether that’s a core update or a specific update, like the spam link update. ⁓ so it’s important to have someone who is, you know, accredited to do that kind of work for you. ⁓ but also backlink building. And I say this with a with a little asterisk there because not all backlinks are created equal. Definitely don’t go to some place like

Fiverr or upwork to have someone just build backlinks for you without doing some, you know, pretty deep investigation on what makes a high quality backlink and whether or not this link is actually going to help your website grow. ⁓ But I would say those two things, just hiring a professional SEO and then outsourcing backlink outreach.

Scott Bursey (12:33)
Well, thank you for highlighting that and it makes a lot of sense. Bryan, interested in your take on and where the biggest opportunity for organic growth lies for investors right now, especially with the rise of like AI search.

Bryan Sekine (12:50)
Yeah, I think the biggest advantage for organic growth really lies in review generation. And

This is something that people can’t easily outsource for you, but it’s one of those things that like truly is pouring gasoline on a fire. So I think it’s important that everyone has a really well fine-tuned website that acts as the central hub for all marketing efforts. But the thing that AI platforms are particularly emphasizing these days, and I don’t see this changing in the near future, is the importance of having third-party verified reviews. So don’t just put a testimonial on your website.

Don’t just get reviews on only your Google Business profile, but generate reviews on your Yelp profile, your BBB profile. You know, join the Chamber of Commerce. Start getting some reviews on third-party platforms that people are aware of, but maybe previously perceived as smaller or maybe insignificant, right? Like get a couple of reviews on your Facebook page because these different AI platforms are searching for all the different third-party platform review sites and then pulling that together in order to craft the responses.

and the reputation that they put into whatever queries they’re answering.

Scott Bursey (14:00)
Bryan, we’d like to explore what do you see as the primary threat to traditional SEO strategies as we move into an era of AI generated answers and search hubs.

Bryan Sekine (14:13)
Yeah, yeah, great question. So I think that the ever-changing landscape is obviously a a big threat because the more that it improves on being able to understand the context, the search intent, and being able to

scan websites at a at a massive scale in order to provide you the information you’re looking for, it really kind of threatens the website ecosystem as a whole, right? And so you really have to focus on making sure the content on your website is truly helpful, is easy to find, and that actually addresses the questions with an answer that’s concise. So I think gone are the days where people will write, you know, absolute garbage blog posts, and they

you know, write content that maybe every other real estate investor website already has, like the steps to avoid foreclosure. Everyone, you know, can find that information quickly now. And if AI already knows that information, it’s not gonna scan your website anymore. But this is the single biggest threat to I think all websites is that AI is stopping people from clicking through your site, which stops them from being able to opt in as a lead or pick up the phone and call you. You know, it and it almost acts as an intermediary between your

target audience and you as a subject matter expert. And so if your website does not truly reflect your expertise and your authority and the trust factors that you’ve been building over the years, ⁓ you’re really going to miss out on a huge part of the conversations that bring people to your table. So I’d say in general just really focus on the website itself, the messaging you’re putting out there, the reputation that you’re building online and make sure that AI knows about it and that it can find it easily.

Scott Bursey (16:33)
Regarding your own internal roadmap, what is the most strategic move you are making at Fox and Owl Marketing in the next twelve months to stay ahead of the curve?

Bryan Sekine (16:43)
Yeah, good question. I think f to stay ahead of the curve in the next twelve months, we’re really leaning in on the combination of local SEO in order to get

More of those like early wins for our clients, ⁓ but still having a high focus on the technical components that allow bigger websites and more established real estate operators to be able to compete against these nationwide iBuyers. Because I think for us, like what what’s gonna be our cutting edge in the near future is being able to stop websites like Home Light and Houseio and OfferPad or the We Buy Ugly Houses website from really taking away from actual

Local real estate investors, because I think people now more than ever want to do business to business as person to person, right? Not person to giant corporate faceless entity. And so for us, I think highlighting these bigger operators that are locally rooted in their communities is gonna be kind of what helps us keep that cutting edge and really

helps us eliminate these this i buyer you know threat from just sweeping the whole country.

Scott Bursey (17:55)
Bryan, if you could take us down the path, what does your professional network look like right now?

Bryan Sekine (17:59)
Yeah, right now our professional network mostly comprises of being ⁓ members of the Collective Genius community as well as being members of the Carrot community. So we’re active on a lot of the online Facebook groups and the the private message groups and stuff, but we also go to a few different networking events. and then we also network with other agencies. ⁓ we go to several different agency conferences across the country just to help make sure that what we do operationally is still, you know

the cutting edge as well. So

Scott Bursey (18:31)
That’s a great reminder. Your net worth is truly your network. And Bryan, if an investor has zero online presence today, what is the one high leverage step they should take in the next, let’s say, 30 days to start showing up where their future sellers and buyers are looking?

Bryan Sekine (18:52)
I would say if you don’t already have one, create a Google Business profile. And if you do already have one, make sure that Google Business Profile is thoroughly connected to your website. And so a lot of times I think people are using a website as just a landing page for a PPC campaign or a direct mail campaign. But it can be so much more than that. And really leveraging any amount of traffic, whether it’s paid or organic, to a singular website and then bolstering that with a Google business profile is really kind of like the foundation.

pieces you need to really build that online presence well into the future.

Scott Bursey (19:25)
Bryan, you’ve really highlighted a lot of great information for our listeners to today, but is there any additional golden nugget or words of wisdom that you could leave with our pros?

Bryan Sekine (19:37)
Hmm.

I would say that

Focus on highlighting what makes your brand different than your competitors. And really, really emphasizing that in all of your marketing efforts, whether that’s your direct mail pieces, whether that’s your PPC, you know, ad creative, whether that’s you know, how your acquisitions team talks on the phone. Like really, really leverage and and lean into what separates you from the competitors because I think it’s it’s a really saturated market these days. And so the ones

that stand out above the rest are going to be the ones that are the most unique. You know, like and if you don’t have that unique cutting edge that separates you from everyone else, find it. Find it. And then make sure you market that aggressively.

Scott Bursey (20:21)
Bryan, for those of our listeners that want to keep this conversation moving, stay in your lane or collaborate with you, what’s the best way for them to reach you?

Bryan Sekine (20:28)
I would say visit our website at foxandowlmarketing.com Or you can reach out to me directly. My email is Bryan@ and that’s Bryan with a Y. [email protected]

Scott Bursey (20:41)
Bryan, thank you for joining us today on the Real Estate Pros podcast.

Bryan Sekine (20:44)
Thank you, Scott. It was a pleasure to here.

Scott Bursey (20:46)
It has been a sincere pleasure. And to our listeners, we appreciate you. If you receive value from today’s episode, please subscribe. We’ll be filling your tanks with a lineup of elite guest, just like Bryan Sekine, who are accelerating and setting the pace for the rest of the industry. Until next time, keep your standards high and your vision clear. We’ll see ya on the next episode, everyone.