How Real Estate Agents Can Stop Chasing Their Day and Avoid Burnout

Brock Zevan (00:00)
People don’t understand boundaries. I think they work crazy hours. Yeah. I think they work seven days a week. When they really, if they were just efficient in five, they’d be okay. But if they really dug down, or Gary Keller used to say this all the time when I was with Keller Williams, he’d be like, I can tell you exactly what type of person you are. Show me your bank statements, show me your calendar. And it’s so true because those things are leading ingredients to let us know what you do during your day, where you’re spending your money.

Dylan Silver (02:00)
Hey folks, welcome back to the show. Today we’re joined by Brock Zevan, an investor, author, speaker, and elite agent with Real Broker in North and South Carolina, ranking among the company’s top 2% in sales. Brock, thanks for taking the time today.

Brock Zevan (02:17)
What’s up, man? Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity to be with you and your audience.

Dylan Silver (02:22)
Now, being an agent is changing. There’s no two ways about it.

And I think even what it means to be a realtor may be changing as well. How have you been navigating these shifts, let’s say, over the last half-decade, five years?

Brock Zevan (02:41)
Well, one is, you know, COVID was part of that. So that changed a lot of our industry. I mean, be honest with you, think about Zoom and where it is today. Like if you thought about it five years ago and somebody says we’re gonna do a Zoom podcast and we’re gonna start talking on Zoom, I’d be like, wait, what? Wait, what do you want us to do? Like Zoom. And I remember my kids, like my daughter Brielle, just like trying to get on Zoom because they couldn’t go to school. And I mean it was a mess. And it was there was a lot of a lot of you know, cloud that we had and no pun intended. It just there wasn’t clarity in reference to how it was going to operate and what we do. And now just a general conversations that I have with people is like, Do you want to do a phone call or a Zoom? Like, that becomes part of our normal conversation, at least for me, because I do like this face-to-face. I like how we’re able to engage, you know, you’re licensed in Texas, you’re living in Jersey, and I’m in Charlotte, North Carolina, and here we are having a conversation with each other. And it just it brings, I think, closeness. I think it brings the distance. It really helps out where a lot of people do work from home. I think a lot of times real estate agents don’t understand like the transition of working from home is much different now.

And you have to get out and it might not be out of your house, but you have to have engagement and have conversations with people. So I think embracing change, embracing technology of the opportunities you have to meet people all across the country, all across the world, to be able to do this. I was just telling you earlier, Tamir, the CEO of Real, he was in Israel and he was on my podcast show. Like to be able to have that. My mom was on the show and she’s like, I can’t believe he’s from Israel. I said, yeah, and he looked like he was, you know, there was no glitch in the internet. It was smooth. So I think just technology and then I think the next wave has been the artificial intelligence. I think the AI capacity has really transformed the way real estate agents work the business, as well as they think that there’s gonna be an easy button to it. And I listened to a lot of Mike Ferry, Earl Nightingale,

And well, he was coached by Mike Ferry was coached by Earl Nightingale. And so like everything that Mike Ferry teaches about is Earl Nightingale’s like foundation of how you have to have skills of talking to people and communicating. Well, people want to be so artificial that just think I’m just gonna do some post and I’m just gonna get business. And it doesn’t happen that way. You’ve got to be truly authentic, you have to be able to speak.

Brock Zevan (06:06)
One of the—I wrote a book, Turning Scripts Into Conversations, and it literally is how to talk to people and have conversations, not let me ask you ten questions as let me get through a checklist here and then and then say, can I get your business? Like understanding. I mean, like I said, I knew where you live. I knew where you’re licensed. I knew these things because we had an engagement to be able to understand each other. And so I think real estate agents that they it’s going back to the roots of applying AI as a tool and to help you, but really still going back to the fundamentals of being able to communicate with people is I think something that real estate agents over the transition over the last five years between the technology phase, but really understanding we do need to go back to our roots because we’re gonna see a lot of real estate agents leave this market because the transaction count is much lower, which I say the unemployment is low, because if you’re not having any sales, you’re not making any money.

And how do you stay in this business? You work on your skill set. So I don’t know if that answered your question, but that’s kind of the transition I see.

Dylan Silver (07:14)
What do you think about this idea of you know agent burnout? I’ve had top-performing agents on the show before. I’ve also had people who were top-performing and said, I gotta go do something else because I’m getting burnt out. You know, is the is there an answer to this? Or do you have to be willing to, you know, just you know, continue to do it year in and year out?

Brock Zevan (07:34)
You know, I think it’s a double-edged sword on that as well. You know, I think if you take today’s agent and put him back in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties, when you used to not even have a computer and you used to have to run to the office to find the MLS and go look at magazines and go look at fax things and do things like that to me I would be burnt out. I’d be physically exhausted.

I think in today’s world we as real estate agents like to say we’re burnt out, but I just think that we’re not executing and planning our day and leveraging. I don’t think we’re mapping out our day. I don’t think we’re spending time on what our day looks like. I think that we’re not doing the… I’m an Eagle Scout, so like the motto is be prepared. I don’t think we’re prepared for our day. I think we end up chasing our day instead of preparing for our day. I don’t think we create our day. I think we are chasing and we’re always saying, I never seem to get caught up. Well, you don’t even know what you’re getting caught up from because you never plan the day. Like I knew exactly how long you and I were gonna be on here for. I knew exactly what time to be on here for. And I know when it’s gonna end and I know what I got going on next. And so I don’t think we as real estate agents, those that prepare, those that plan their day, those that have it mapped out, I think there’s a way that they have it balanced.

I think that people don’t understand boundaries. I think they work crazy hours. I think they work seven days a week. When they really, if they were just efficient in five, they’d be okay. But if they really dug down, or Gary Keller used to say this all the time when I was with Keller Williams, he’d be like, I can tell you exactly what type of person you are. Show me your bank statements, show me your calendar. And it’s so true because those things are leading ingredients to let us know what you do during your day, where you’re spending your money.

And so I think that as real estate agents, are they getting burnt out? You know, they are. I just think that they might not be, you know, really planning their day and mapping out their day as efficiently as they can and leveraging. I use virtual assistance. I was just in the Philippines. So I run a VA company as well. And I do a lot of things. And I have two kids. I’m a single dad. But I found a way to be able to map out and balance and create boundaries.

So I can still spend time with my family and spend time still being able to financially, you know, be in a good position.

Dylan Silver (10:37)
Now, when we talk also about having systems in place and teams, right? Do you think that there is a time when a top-performing agent naturally should have a team underneath them and that should be something that they should do to continue to produce without having to bear the burden of

You know, always being on the road and answering at odd hours and that type of thing.

Brock Zevan (11:04)
I think it goes down to their personal first their personality, second, who’s their mentor, who’s their coach. You know, I look at the elite of the elite in the football program, the training camp’s about to start the NFL. Yeah. And guess what? It doesn’t matter how good you are, you’re going back to the basics, running the ball, handing the ball off, passing, doing the passing tree. I was a football coach in high school.

Played football in college, at Montclair State, we talked about that earlier as well. And you don’t go right to the playbook of like week 15 where you’re putting in a special. No, you’re going back to the basics. And I think that when you have a mentor or you have a coach, they’re the best to tell you when you’re ready to make that step. A lot of people rush into it because really they’re just tired and exhausted instead of leveraging and

working their systems, working their plan. So to me, is find somebody who’s doing what you want to do and go ask them to have a conversation. Go take them out to lunch. Go ask them to do a Zoom conversation and see what it took for them. Like when did you start making the transitions? When did you start leveraging and building out systems and getting VAs and whatever it is assistance that you want? I think it just really comes down to

You know, at what point financially can you afford it? What do you got going on in your in your life? And finding other people, role models, and mentors that are doing what you want to do.

Dylan Silver (12:33)
Pivoting here, Brock, when we talk about being active as an agent in brokerage, sometimes we make a fine distinction between this and then being an investor. You’re active in both sides. You also will look for assignable contracts and wholesale deals. How has it been marrying those two worlds? I can speak for myself and it’s been sometimes an uphill battle because I come across folks who are like, what are you doing with these distressed properties and this type of thing? How have you been able to marry both worlds?

Brock Zevan (13:04)
Well, I go everything back to sports. And a golfer always approaches his shot the same exact way. Doesn’t matter what course, doesn’t matter what field doesn’t matter, like anything it is, his approach is the same.

Basketball player to the free-throw line. Their approach is always the same. Doesn’t matter what arena, what state, what team, your approach is always the same. So I build consistency and that’s what I teach people is like re keep rep the repetition the exact same for no matter what you’re doing. How you doing? My name is Brock Zevan. I’m an investor and real estate agent. I want to help you. Not too sure what direction you want to go in yet. Tell me a little bit about your problem. Tell me a little bit about your situation you’re in so I can help you. I don’t know where I want to land the plane yet.

Because I don’t know what your problem is, but I wear two different hats and I can help you in either field. It just depends on your scenario. So I literally practice that and you know, part of it is repetition, just like it was for coaching football. It’s run the play, run the play, and I do that’s my introduction is I’m an investor and I’m a real estate agent. Tell me a little bit about your problem to see if it matches one of our programs. And then they’ll tell me what exactly what it is. And so I can adjust to their situation.

I’m a chameleon. I studied the DISC analysis with John Maxwell and Tony Robbins. And those are the important things that you need to you know look at and to do.

Dylan Silver (14:29)
Now, one of the things that is sometimes challenging, especially over the last, let’s call it, you know, year and a half, two years, is someone can get a property under contract, it pencils, and they think there’s gotta be buyers here.

But then on the dispo side, buyers are more skeptical now than they were in twenty nineteen when you could buy a property wrong and still make money on it. What’s been your approach to dispositioning these properties once you have something on the hook?

Brock Zevan (15:37)
Well, I think a lot of times, you know, unfortunately there’s a lot of wrong wholesaling that’s going out there. I think there’s a lot of social media, there’s a lot of news that are out there. So you really have to being a school teacher and assistant principal for twelve years, I think education is very, very important. You know, we get a lot of people just

You know, you go online to different websites that you can go to where you can get these type of leads. But, you know, I treat expireds, I treat FSBOs, I treat them all really the same when it comes time to try to find these type of buyers. That or I should say, I’m sorry, where we find these sellers. As far as, you know, the buyers, you really just gotta educate them once again to make sure that they understand like what the property is, what the market analysis looks like. Really give them the information so they can make an educated decision based off of what you’re sharing with them. And then once you build rapport and they understand like, well, this guy really knows what he’s talking about. Just like podcasting. You and I talked about that. Like I’m sure you get people in there that love podcasting, love talking, but they’ve never really done a show. They’ve never really engaged. They don’t really know what to talk about, how to talk, articulate. It’s the same thing with when you’re dealing with buyers and sellers in the wholesale industry.

Is giving them a we we’re just working. I have a formula. Here’s my formula. Here’s the breakdown. This is why I think this would be a good fit. Is this ROI something that you like? If it’s not, then it’s you know, you’re guiding them along the way of this journey of what they, you know, where they want to go. ‘Cause every investor, as you know, every buyer is different. And everybody has their own formula. So you just educate them as much as possible.

Dylan Silver (17:20)
You know, one of the challenging things for I would say for wholesalers who are active as realtors is you know marrying those two sides of the game. But on the flip side of that, the Carolinas have been so hot, not just recently, but for like twenty, thirty years. It does seem, however, that the investors at large throughout the country maybe are becoming hip to this as well.

As a wholesaler and also as a realtor, are you seeing more and more and more out-of-state investors looking to purchase in the Carolinas these days?

Brock Zevan (17:59)
Yeah. Tons. I mean, it is there’s just I mean, you can go to these Facebook groups left and right and see how many people are in there. Go look at how many people have joined, like 102,000 in this group, 200,000 in this group. And

You know, then you ask like who’s actually producing, just like in a even real estate agents, like you know, Tom Ferry, I was listening to him, and you know, only ten percent right now are really producing. Eighty-five percent of people have not done a real estate transaction in the last year. That just shows you like they don’t like more it’s becoming smaller and smaller. I think the wholesale market, to be honest with you, they’re gonna start coming down per state regulations that you’re gonna have to have a real estate license.

Yeah. And I think that’s gonna make you more valuable as a realtor that if you want to do a transaction, you’re gonna have to have a license or have somebody with the license to be able to help you. But we’re seeing more and more North Carolina, South Carolina. South Carolina passed a new law, so there, we’ve had some things kind of simmer down a little bit on that, but Florida, Tennessee, Texas, those are all big popular states where we’re seeing more and more of it.

Dylan Silver (19:12)
You know, one of the I would say

interesting or perhaps unusual components of this is there’s this element of the Carolinas which seems to almost be like this perfect mix of you got the beaches but you’ve also got community. You’ve got the big military bases. You know, you’re not in Florida, but you’re not in Boston, Massachusetts, right? And so there seems to be at least right now, and I don’t think it is fleeting, I think it’s something that

The Carolinas have really done a good job of cultivating a combination of culture, you know, family values and affordability, more so than, you know, those other areas.

Brock Zevan (19:52)
The affordability is such a huge component. We talked earlier. I’m originally from New York. Lived down in Florida for a little bit and kinda is what they call the halfbackers. I came halfway and in right here in in Charlotte, and you nailed it too. You got the Carolinas with the beaches.

Top beaches in some parts of the country. Then you got the mountains because you have all of Asheville on that side of things. So you got the best of both worlds. You got the financial impact that Charlotte is in the top five in the United States of finances: Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Truist, these type of banks. And so it’s just it and then you throw in the reduced taxes, the cost of living. You know, it is it is a breeding ground for relocation. It is one of the top in this in the country, in this area.

And so it just it provides for families anymore that are looking for that. I want to take my kids to the public school. I want to feel safe. I want to be able to have a good job but still go on vacations. It kind of gives the best of all the worlds for them, for their for their family. And it’s great for the young, for the youth, for what they’re you know, a startup type of position or a startup job for what they’re wanting. It gives them a good stepping stone and they’re not coming out completely broke.

Dylan Silver (21:09)
Yeah, no question. I mean, you have the ability to get into the on-ramp of home ownership a little bit faster while also still not, you know, being in an area that is, you know, quote-unquote developing where you’re really out in a rural area. And so there’s this, I would say, interest from people all across the country on all sides, you know, buyers but also investors and then, you know, folks who are doing creative deals and wholesaling, looking at both of the Carolinas for those reasons.

We are coming up on time here though, Brock. Any new projects or activities that you’re working on these days? Also anything you’d like to mention directly to our audience?

Brock Zevan (21:48)
So I do help a lot of you know, sellers and buyers as in the wholesale industry. We do have a couple programs that we do offer people to help them with getting out of some of their situations that they’re in.

I do work with a lot of real estate agents. I do a mindset show, two hundred and fifty-six episodes, every single day. I’m a very big advocate that, you know, if I was able to drink and do silly things for a part of my life that got me down that in the addiction with every day that ends in Y, I could do something positive every day that ends in Y. So we do a mindset show that anybody is more than welcome to. It’s heavy real estate based, but

You know, I got investors, wholesalers, lenders, insurance people, real estate agents at eight fifteen on every morning at eight fifteen Eastern time till eight forty-five. We have different speakers. I need to get you on the podcast, bud.

Dylan Silver (22:43)
Have me on. Come on now.

Brock Zevan (22:44)
Get you on there. Then I wrote a book, Turning Scripts Into Conversations. So if you’re trying to reach out to for sale by owners, expireds, have conversations with distressed properties, it’s a book that you can pick up on Amazon.

And then we also help out people with leverage. So I also have a virtual agency company. If you’re thinking about a VA, you can look me up there. So all my stuff’s online. Go to Facebook, Google me. Anything like that, be more than happy to help you out.

Dylan Silver (23:11)
Brock, thank you so much for your time today. Thanks for joining us.