Real Estate FUNDS!!!

Brett McCollum (00:01.065)
All right guys, welcome back to the show. I’m your host Brett McCollum and I’m here today with big Mike Zlotnik. And today we’re gonna talk about all things syndications and funds and how the active real estate investor can benefit from that. Guys at Investor Fuel, we’re here to help you with all you real estate investors, service providers and just real estate entrepreneurs in general to five X your businesses and allow you to build the business you’ve always wanted and live the life you’ve always dreamed of. Without further ado, Mike, how are you man?

Mike Zlotnik (00:30.412)
Hey Brett, thanks for having me.

Brett McCollum (00:32.469)
Man, I’m really excited about our show today, Mike. You’ve got so much to teach us and so much to talk about. You’ve been in the business a long time and your reputation precedes you, man. So I’m just, I’m honored and humbled that you’re here with us today.

Mike Zlotnik (00:46.958)
You’re too kind. I appreciate the opportunity to be here.

Brett McCollum (00:48.087)
you

No, I love it, man. So Mike, do me a favor. mean, obviously you and I have talked, you know, off camera a little bit here and off the recording. Tell people a little bit about you, like who’s Mike? How’d you get into real estate? You know, that sort of thing.

Mike Zlotnik (01:03.726)
Sure, live in Brooklyn, New York. My lovely family, I have four kids. I actually call four monkeys and a cat. I have a real cat and married for many years. Got into real estate. Originally, I like to say this, you know, it was a James Bond movie from Russia with love. I didn’t grow up in Russia, I grew up in Moldova, but it was part of the former Soviet Union. Now it’s not very popular, as you know, with Russia invading Ukraine, unfortunately.

My hope is that the word does come to an end soon. But I come from Moldova. I came in 1989 as a political refugee from the former USSR. I’m a US citizen, US patriot now. That’s a short version of it. I started real estate in 2000, buying passively. So was a really passive investor while maintaining…

technology executive career for almost 15 years. In 2009 I went to Real Estate full time. Originally I was just buying Castle in New York City. It’s not easy to buy a lot here. It’s expensive. But I did this for 9 years just to realize this is my passion. Real Estate is a lot of fun. For your audience, obviously a lot of…

guys and girls, professional, they love it. And I find it, if you do well in real estate, especially when you invest for long term, you do your work once and then the assets can work for you for years if you buy right. that’s sort of, this passive investing as much as active is music to a lot of people years.

Passive can actually be a great story too. I did it for nine years before going active. And I can tell you both of them works. And sometimes you go active, active, active, and then you decide to take it easy, retire or semi-retire, then you go a little more passive. So it’s a journey, it’s an evolving journey.

Brett McCollum (03:11.467)
Yeah, I mean, you’ve been, like I said, 25-ish years now, you’ve been on the journey, right? So 2009, you decided to take that full-time leap. Was there a specific thing that happened that was like, yeah, was the marker that said, I’m in full-time? What happened at that point?

Mike Zlotnik (03:33.422)
It was purely timing of my technology career. I was wrapping up a technology gig. I had a successful career, but I was tired and burnt out. For me, the switch was natural. Having a successful career in technology, desiring to really get more time, freedom, and do what I want to do and work from home instead of working for corporate America. So at that point of time, it was fairly easy switch.

Brett McCollum (03:43.639)
Mm.

Brett McCollum (03:58.806)
Right.

Mike Zlotnik (04:03.342)
So it didn’t happen because 2008 crisis took place and I wanted to jump into 2009. It kind of happened incidental and we started funding short sale flips. The market kind of picked up. So what we did was kind of our original tempo funding was funding. We provided transactional funding or flash funding. It was kind of crazy. Jason Medley from the CG Mastermind.

He had a visionary and he found the CG and he moved on. And we were number two transactional fund in the country. We started and then we did 2009, 10, 11. Then all the transactional funding became more and more difficult and we moved into hard money lending. And then over time, we still do hard money loans. We still like the business. But we moved into a lot of commercial real estate investing, both debt and equity.

Brett McCollum (05:00.403)
Yeah. Wow. That’s really cool. What was, um, so, I mean, I’ve been talking a little bit more with some of you guys that are more seasoned. You’ve been in the real estate space. What was the, like, you know, going from, you know, that, that 2008 to let’s call it 2015 ish, right? That kind of run when things were just like straight down for a little while. Um, on the lending side did, was it

Anything, because I know I would is on the operator side on the active like side of things. How, is it like on the lending side going through that kind of an environment?

Mike Zlotnik (05:37.336)
Well, the market was actually good for lending since 2008-2009 crisis. had a bottom of the market. Then depending on where you are in the country, we continue to finance a lot of deep buy. So investors would negotiate short sale, get a property at a steep discount from the bank, REO, et cetera. And it needed financing. So the hard money lender, we were charging, boy, mean, the peak of the market, we could charge 18 % and five points. I’m not kidding you.

Brett McCollum (06:06.081)
Wow. Yeah.

Mike Zlotnik (06:07.47)
Then it gradually started to get a little worse, a little worse, a little worse. More money came into the market, more competitive. So from a lending perspective, that business was pretty solid, although returns were diminishing a little bit. But again, I’m going back from 2000, let’s call it nine, 10, 11, all the way to 15, maybe 16. The marketplace got a lot more competitive. So the yields on the hard money loans continued through a road. And that’s

That’s the time when we decided to really start going into more equity. But if you picked up on equity in any of those years and you held to anything pretty much, you’ve done as an equity investor, you would have done even better than the lender because the values continue to appreciate. So as a lender, you got repaid, but as an equity, your equity grew faster than the interest rate on these hard money loans. That’s what the market looked like, but it wasn’t all overnight. If you held it long enough, then the math

Brett McCollum (06:50.263)
That’s right.

Mike Zlotnik (07:05.93)
really worked out.

Brett McCollum (07:07.223)
Yeah. It sounds like if I’m, if I’m understanding you correctly, it sounds like you’re pivoting. It’s just kind of been as the market is evolving and changing, you’ve been pivoting kind of the, the money, the lending side of your business, the hard money to equity to you’re just kind of pivoting with as the market’s changing as well. Is that what I’m hearing?

Mike Zlotnik (07:28.718)
Yeah, exactly. we, what we do day in and day out, we are capital partners. We’re the lenders, so capital partners on deals. We’re not actively running a lot of these fix and flip projects or buy and hold or commercial deals, multifamily, storage, air shopping, industrial. We’ve been very opportunistic looking first who we can work with. So it’s always who before looking at any deal. And once we find these relationships,

Brett McCollum (07:52.481)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Zlotnik (07:58.146)
We’ve been pivoting and as we go along, we’ve looked at where the better opportunities are. So example, like right now, we know there’s a deep value by opportunities in multifamilies, an example. In general, commercial real estate is much more sensitive to the interest rate than residential. Residential has held up in many markets because of limited supply demand disbalance, right? So interestingly enough today, we’re looking at very deep value by multifamily.

and we’re pivoting back into equity. Well, the last couple of years has been more of a debt type of a play because the market shifts. that’s, it’s not for everyone. For those folks who are looking to stick with their program, all they do is the jack of one trade and they’re really wonderful jack. There’s nothing wrong with that. But the problem is the market changes. Sometimes your opportunities dry up. You have to do something else. If you’ve been doing wholesaling,

Brett McCollum (08:36.172)
Right.

Mike Zlotnik (08:56.93)
You can’t find the deal, so the spreads too tight, you’re taking too much risk. So have to change and do something else. I’ve literally spoken with a number of wholesalers who saying, you know, they’ve built up a big nest egg. You know what they want to do today? They don’t want to wholesale. They want to invest the money, get some passive income and take less risk because the spreads are tight. And if something goes wrong, they may be stuck with the loss.

Brett McCollum (09:20.897)
Yeah, that was, so you’re kind of leading me into, that was, so the market’s pivoted or it’s pivoting and you guys are going along with it, almost back to the, you’ve been here and done that. You’ve seen it, you’ve went through it. You have that experience behind you now today, 2025, know. What’s the landscape looking like on your guys’ side? So you mentioned into, back into equity again, is that right?

Mike Zlotnik (09:48.11)
Yeah, on the commercial front, so I’m very specific. Again, on the international front, we’ve seen a lot of appreciated properties that haven’t really corrected the last couple of years. On the commercial front, specifically multi-family, you see very significant valuation corrections since the Fed went fast and furious, spiked the rates and then kept the rates at the elevated level, higher for longer. So, it’s higher for longer.

Brett McCollum (10:06.187)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Zlotnik (10:17.506)
has created essentially pressure on a lot of the deals that borrowed either floating rate debt or even borrowed fixed rate debt and then they’re maturing, maturity is cliff. So these type of deals are transacting, some of them, not all, some of them, there’s a small portion of the overall market, there’s a relative to what the value at deals represent overall, not a big portion of the market.

A lot of stable core, core plus stable deals. And those deals are with a long term debt, they’ve stayed more or less stable. But now, if those deals mature, the commercial real estate trades on a cap rate. And the cap rates essentially expanded, they grew as interest rates grew. There’s a direct relationship between the interest rates and then the cap rates. It varies a little bit.

So what we see is discounts today versus the peak of the market in multifamily. You could find a property 25 % off versus the peak in 2022. When you have 25 % discount, you look at the inflation and reconstruction cost. Now it’s even more expensive to do, to build, renovate versus a couple of years ago. So the consequences, Sunbelt heavily discounted, Midwest less.

Brett McCollum (11:33.708)
Right, right.

Mike Zlotnik (11:41.102)
on a general market basis, you’ve had smaller correction, but it comes down to individual opportunities. If you can find a great deep discount, 25 % off with a motivated seller, then why not? This is a much better buy versus you’re trying to invest in residential. So on a debt side, we still do loans. We still actually like to be a lender. The private credit, by the way, in this environment,

is still very attractive. Private credit being hard money lending. Why could the banks really pull down? So if you financed your business using bank loans, that’s great. But today, the banks are doing even less in this space. So private credit, hard money loans continue to be a lucrative business for us, so we do that. But we also provide recovery capital in the form of mass debt. Essentially,

Some of the deals that were funded with equity, significant equity investment, they’ve run out of liquidity. So if you’re equity rich, cash poor, we come in as a lender in the mass debt position. And if a deal is a brand new acquisition at a deep discounted price, we’re happy to be in equity because the upside in equity today, if you buy it with 25 % discount, you have a very significant upside.

versus a couple of years ago. Your risk reward ratios are called asymmetric return. The risk profile is fairly low while the upside potential is fairly high. That’s the best way to describe it.

Brett McCollum (13:21.473)
Yeah, that’s great. So Mike, we’re talking a lot with active real estate investors on this show. And that’s our listener audience. How most of us are taught, like on the wholesale side, flicks and flips side, even the traditional residential buy and hold side, there’s a lot of just, it’s very transactional, just boom, boom, volume, volume, volume, and when can I get my next deal?

With what you guys do, who would you say is the ideal person that needs to hear what you guys do? Who do you aim to talk to, who would benefit the most from talking with you guys?

Mike Zlotnik (14:09.048)
Sure, so…

Mike Zlotnik (14:12.93)
We actually work with a lot of active guys and it’s kind of crazy. Years ago, we used to loan hard money loans. We used to fund a lot of fix and flips situations when they needed the capital. Transactional funding existing when wholesaling wasn’t really a thing, and now you don’t need the money. Why do you want to even borrow the money for two days to one day? So that went away.

But the hard money lending still continues. So we do a little bit of that work with a few guys who run volume, who happy with the relationship. We don’t want to be a commodity lender. It’s not us. But completely opposite, completely opposite. The last few years, we’ve gotten ton of these wonderful wholesalers, fix and flip guys, folks who have built rental portfolios to invest passively into deals.

Brett McCollum (15:04.033)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Zlotnik (15:05.26)
that generate heavy depreciation benefits because most of the guys you’re talking about and girls are REPs, real estate professionals. All the income they generate is from owning real estate, flipping it, some of them holding for long term. And many qualify as REPs and they can use depreciation driven deductions from passive investing to help offset the gains, the taxable gains from the…

the active flips. Of course, consult with your CPA professionals, not for everyone. But for many folks, it makes a lot of sense. So we’ve gotten from many veterans of mastermind groups like the Collective Genius, who were writing us checks because they’ve made it out there, they’re very successful, they got their great portfolios, and they actually want to get some tax benefits and they want to invest in these deep, great deals that have significant upside, but they don’t want to be active.

So when you can get target return, let’s call it, you know, low twenties in this environment, maybe even higher, right? IRR, which is pretty strong return. Now, if you’re active, you could generate maybe 30 % on your money flipping, maybe 40. I don’t even know what the exact ratios, but when you deploy your capital and you’re actively managing and you’re making an active profit, maybe you could get a better return that money, but you also investing ton of time. Now, if you write a check,

Brett McCollum (16:11.339)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Zlotnik (16:31.0)
get significant tax benefits, depreciation upfront, and then you also stand to make cash flow and strong return. This is what we are talking to a lot of the guys today. Like literally these are life conversations. to many guys is almost strange. Like why would I want to invest with somebody else? Well, the same way people buy, you know, AI stocks or they buy crypto.

They investing in something that they’re passive. It’s the same concept. But if you look at depreciated stock market, AI stocks or S &P 500 or crypto, they’ve had a great, great run last couple of years. So folks actually taking, I had an investor, I’m going to laugh at this. He is a real estate professional, friend of many years. He calls me said I can retire many times over on crypto, but I’m so heavily concentrated in that. And his conversation is what

deals I can invest in with you where I can be passive and diversified. I talked to him about a deal that we have just literally closed last week. So I’ll give you an example. What’s a deep, deep value commercial real estate, multifamily real estate, deep value buy looks like today. Just so you get an idea. A few years ago, the cap rates of multifamily, let’s call them, you know, we’re five and a half, six, six and a half, depending on the market, right?

Brett McCollum (17:30.956)
Right.

Brett McCollum (17:55.639)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Zlotnik (17:55.79)
These are capitalization rate of multifamily assets. Today we bought a property with a cap rate exceeding 9%. And we’re borrowing the money at 7%. So we have a positive spread between what you borrow and what you pay, or over 2%. When you buy it like this, and you have a cash flow, strong cash flow from day one, and you look at the upside, you could make a lot of money after the value of strategy. Typical innovations.

Brett McCollum (18:10.401)
Right.

Mike Zlotnik (18:24.75)
We bought a 79,000 a door with a target sale in four to five years, 160,000 a door investing 25,000 a door. just for comparison sake, can you do the same with a single family asset? Of course you can. 79,000 a door, 25 renovation takes us into, you know, 104 or something like that. And then you see easy exit. Let’s call it, you know, 160,000 a door and you cash flow in the way. And you have economy of scale because that property

Brett McCollum (18:32.598)
Right.

Mike Zlotnik (18:54.35)
is 1,046 doors. The economy of scale is so big that it actually helps the deal to get better bank debt financing, helps execution, etc. It justifies professional management, etc. So some folks do this on 200 doors and folks do it on 100 doors, 300 doors. But the opportunity today is in multifamily.

Brett McCollum (18:57.409)
Wow.

Mike Zlotnik (19:22.99)
if you can buy like this at nine cap or eight and a half cap versus I don’t know where you could see this. Just for another comparison sake, 79,000 a door within place rents, mid 1100s. You can kind of compare and contrast. Imagine you buy a house for 79,000. I don’t know where you could buy for 79,000, but it’s smaller rural area somewhere, not big city. And you get 1150 per door rent.

Brett McCollum (19:48.055)
Yeah.

Mike Zlotnik (19:53.518)
That’s basically an example of this deal.

Brett McCollum (19:53.569)
Yeah, that’d be great, wouldn’t it? Yeah.

Yeah, let ask you this, Mike. Let’s say I’m the active real estate investor and I’ve heard about funds, syndications, you hear about this stuff, but how do you know how to pick the right, how do I pick the right mic? How do I pick the right person to, you cause you’ve also heard people kind of losing all of it, like, I invested X amount of money into this syndication.

and it got burnt. How do you know how to protect yourself? What, how do you look for the right ones to invest in? What, like, what would you advise that?

Mike Zlotnik (20:34.222)
So for the record, I just want to make sure we’re recording this late February 2025, right? Very different environments. So people who wrote checks in 2021, 2022, some of these deals are sitting on thin ice. Some of them, the ice already broke, right? Some will be fine. It’s important to understand the market conditions. some syndicators from everybody was a genius when things were going well.

Brett McCollum (20:47.361)
Mmm.

Brett McCollum (20:58.423)
Sure.

Mike Zlotnik (21:00.194)
The market pivoted significantly, interest rates spiked, and a lot of syndicators unfortunately couldn’t hold out. And we’ve seen this rodeo before, but the bottom line is, if you’ve written a check into a deal that went south, what do you do? There’s a wonderful book called, Sometimes You Win, Sometimes You Learn. You have to learn from the experience. And learn from the experience means also realize whether it was a mistake to invest,

Was the operator problem with the market? Is it the recency bias that the market has hurt you so much or is this something that an operator did? So part of the process is due diligence on the operators who you’re investing with. And there’s no easy path here. So we actually are investors too. We write a lot of checks from our funds. We run funds that invest. So we very well understand.

what investor thinks when they consider writing a check to us. It’s the same thinking. Who are investing with? you basically, you’re picking the jockey, not necessarily the horse. You’re picking the operator, the sponsor first, and as long as they’re good at understanding the market, they’re good at execution, they’re good at their specialty, whatever the strategy.

That’s a starting point. Doesn’t mean you’re going to write them another check, but at least are they good communicator? Do they have high integrity? Number of these reviews are critically important. When we get a new opportunity, we always start with a referral. It’s their referral chain. Without referral chain, it’s a little hard. So you start with a referral chain too. You try to understand who you’re investing with. Know, like and trust. These are the three magic word. You have to establish that first. Is this easy? No. So for us,

Brett McCollum (22:38.935)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Zlotnik (22:53.262)
For example, for this year, because we run these funds that invest into diversified strategies, we’re looking to add to our portfolio, maybe one, two or three, not 20, a couple of folks want to continue to invest with, but be programmatic. Deal number one, deal number two, deal number three over time. Right? So, that takes picking and choosing who you’re investing with, what strategy. So, a couple of funds we run, one of the funds, I’ll give you examples, Tempo Income Fund.

we diversify into multiple income strategies. So we need to identify what strategies can produce actually good income today in equity. Not debt. That is pretty easy. That pretty much everything that you loan money in, no matter what asset class, that is income, right? But equity, open-air shopping, industrial, deep buy value at multifamily. A lot of these deals demonstrate initial cashflow. So from our perspective, we’re looking who

we can do business with again and again and again, where they’re located, what is their strategy, how they are dealing with the market, how they’re finding opportunities. Once you do that due diligence, then you start looking at the performance of specific deal. So if I write a check into this deal, I already know like a trust operator. Next question is why this is a great deal? Like literally why is this a great deal? Today you’re not looking for a good deal, you’re looking for a great deal.

So there are various ways to look at the grade you, but you could look at the reconstruction cost. There’s a cost approach, right? What does it cost to build from scratch? So today I can buy 79,000 a door. Oh, if I want to rebuild this, it’s going to cost me 200,000 a door. Is this a good deal? Yeah. And this is the time, by the way, when people come to me today and they say, I have a great ground up construction project. I look at this and say, okay, for what cost can you build? Well, it’s 200,000 a door.

Do have a way to build it for, I’m not saying it’s 79,000 a door, for 140,000 a door. I can’t get that kind of discount on a ground up. It’s impossible. It’s like it costs what it costs to build. But on existing assets, you can’t. So it’s one of the huge market dislocations, if you can find them, is to get existing versus new because new, yeah, you might have really great long-term play on this, but you can’t build for a steep discount versus what it costs to build.

Brett McCollum (25:20.854)
Right.

Mike Zlotnik (25:21.598)
That’s just impossible physically. So, reconstruction cost two, what cap rate you’re buying at? What kind initial cash flow can you get? Classically, in multifamily, you have negative spread. People would buy at a cap rate below the cost of money. When the interest rates were very low, people would buy at insanely low cap rates, because interest rates were low. As interest rates rose, the cap rates started to rise.

But many markets still operate where the cap rate on multifamily is trading still below prevailing cost of money. And in that case, have a negative spread. Can you buy with the positive spread today? So the positive spread is creating margin of safety. And the next thing you need to look at how, you know, what’s the value of plan? If it’s a value of plan, can you buy? It’s almost like this.

To buy a dislocated asset at a great price, you need to have a motivated seller and you need to have something that other people may not see. Say the property is on the market, can you see something other people don’t? Or can you get to the property without it being on the market? The same is true in wholesaling, right? If you’re trying to avoid, you can’t get a deal if the property is being marketed heavily. But if you can get to the seller, make a deal with them, then…

You can get into a deep buy situation. again, reconstruction cost spread between the cap rate and the interest rate. What is the value you add? Can you get other benefits like tax depreciation, heavy depreciation benefits? Can you get tax abatements? Can you get reimbursements from utility company for energy efficient improvements? Also, can you clearly see what are the market trends today versus what are the trends in your community today?

Right? Very, if you give an example, that deal that I mentioned to you called Waverly on the Lake, in the Ann Arbor, Michigan, the in-place rents, the average rent is around $1150 today. But the market has plenty of comps, close proximity, $14,000, $15,000. Now, granted, they’ve gone through some level of already improvements, but you’ve got to see that. And if you see all that, then the path to get there is easy to understand.

Brett McCollum (27:32.023)
Okay.

Mike Zlotnik (27:49.262)
And then the ultimate question, you know, if you bought this asset today and you just cleaned it up and didn’t sell it as a seller, what price can you actually flip it at? Like a wholesaler flipper, right? So we looked at this deal and we thought we could probably flip it if we wanted to for $115,000, $120,000 a door without doing a lot of work. So if you can get for $79,000 as is, maybe be conservative, call it…

110 a door. If you have that margin of safety, then you have a phenomenal deal. That’s the bottom line. The same thing a wholesalers do on one property you can do on a large commercial deal. It’s a lot harder to do. But if you can get that, if you can believe that you’re getting that deep of a discount, then it’s a thousand X versus one door. Does it make sense?

Brett McCollum (28:32.278)
Right.

Brett McCollum (28:41.525)
Yeah, truly. Yeah. Makes perfect sense. Man, Mike, you unpacked a lot there for the for everybody to listen to. So, guys, I I encourage you to go back and re listen multiple times because there’s a lot to learn from it. And speaking of that, Mike, if people want to reach out to you to maybe they want to learn a little bit more and want to, you know, start looking into doing, you know, into the fun side of things or in syndicate, like how could they get a hold of you? How do they look you up? You know?

Tell us, tell the people how to reach out.

Mike Zlotnik (29:13.326)
Sure, so fairly straightforward. So bigmicfund.com. That’s the website. And if you misspell it, then you forget the end. I promise you that I can’t miss it.

Brett McCollum (29:21.879)
Yeah, don’t forget that. Do not forget that.

Mike Zlotnik (29:26.958)
But you could forget it. Actually, I do own the other domain. So I was on one of the podcasts like this. said bigmicfund.com and they didn’t hear the deal then. It’s like, did they hear it correctly? And then within 30 seconds after the end of the call, I ran to the GoDaddy and I grabbed the other site and said, okay, I just want to make sure they don’t wind up with the wrong site. I’m happy to. So most of what we do day in and day out is investing, right? We’re capital.

Brett McCollum (29:42.932)
there you go. Okay, perfect. There you go.

Mike Zlotnik (29:55.884)
Managers who manage capital. write checks into individual deals or funds if they want to diversify. I gave you an example. But also what I do on a limited basis, folks want to start a fund if they have interest in using the fund for any of their strategies. I do a little bit of coaching in the space through BigMikeCoaching.com of all websites. So if folks need a little help how to set up a fund.

I literally had recent conversations with guys who do a lot of what you describe, wholesale, wholesale, wholesale. But the good old rule, know, flip five, keep one. At some point they started building these rental portfolios. And I had a discussion with one of these folks who basically said, well, we do 60 to 80 additional new rentals per year based on what we flip. We actually keep 60 to 80. And I want to do a fund.

that will essentially finance my acquisitions. So that’s an opportunity to build a fund for turnkey rentals that buys $680 per year. doesn’t have to be… I mean, if it’s too small, fund overhead is too much. But if you do reasonable volume like this, you could set up a fund, can justify overhead and justify the cost of running a fund. Again, funds…

I do this all day, day in and day out, understanding space, open-ended, close-ended, lending fund versus equity fund, value-add fund versus core strategy. So happy to do this. Specialty funds like self-storage, multifamily or geographically concentrated funds that are just do nothing but New Jersey for all places. Happy to chat, happy to help from that perspective.

It’s something if folks need it. I happen to know a lot in this space and I love a little bit of coaching with the right person. So it has to be two-way street. Somebody reaches out, they need little help. We chat. If I feel that they are great talent and it’s worth my time and I enjoy the experience, then I’ll consider, if not, hey, no harm.

Brett McCollum (32:21.569)
Sure. Well yeah, we’ll make sure we put all the information in the show notes for everybody to look up. But guys, a lot of information. Mike’s been doing this a long time. I encourage you again, listen, relisten, reach out to Mike if you like, and I will catch you guys on the next show. Take care everybody.