Protect Your Real Estate Investments: Insurance and Risk Management With Antonio Lee

Antonio Lee (00:00)
I would say at least twenty to thirty percent of our clients ⁓ you know, are really surprised about some of the exposures that they have, ⁓ which, you know, is ⁓ is interesting, but you’d be surprised that you have a lot of savvy business people that just may not be aware of the risk that they’re taking.

One thing I’ve noticed about entrepreneurs is that we love to think about the upside of things. But and again, that’s what what we love about entrepreneurship is you know, getting out there, taking risks, making things happen, growing a business, but sometimes we don’t think about the the downside, right? ⁓ and all the other things that can happen. ⁓ so we’re our job is to help our clients protect their assets.

Joseph Crooms (02:18)
Hey everyone, welcome to Investor Fuel Real Estate Pros Podcast. ⁓ I am happy to be here. I am your host, Joseph Crooms. today I’m joined by someone I’ve been looking forward to chatting with. His name is he had to correct me, Antonio.

So he had to correct that. So I’m gonna let him pronounce it again and also greet you in his own way, form, and fashion, who’s been making some serious move, s sort of real estate connected, but he’s in the risk management and insurance. We’re gonna talk and show how those two are closely ⁓ knitted to each other. So Antonio, ⁓ glad to have you here. Say hello.

Antonio Lee (02:57)
Joseph, excited to be here on Investor Fuel. really excited to be on the show. I watched your show, been really impressed with the guests that you have, impressed with you all. so my name is Antonio Lee. there’s too many Tonies in the world, so I go by Antonio. ⁓ I am the president and CEO of Ambition Risk Services, and we specialize in insurance and risk management in the real estate space. And we also work with a number of different small to mid-sized businesses helping them manage their risk better. And ⁓

protect their ambitions. That’s what we do.

Joseph Crooms (03:27)
Okay, so ⁓ I think our listeners gonna get a lot ⁓ from you some they’re gonna take a lot away from this. So let’s start this way. So let’s just dive into it. So first so first off, for people who are not familiar with your world, give us the short version, what’s your main focus, and why is it so closely related to servicing those that are into the real estate?

Antonio Lee (03:53)
That’s great question. And I think your viewers and listeners will agree agree that they can’t get any deals done ⁓ with banks, lenders, private lenders, ⁓ you know, large credit unions without ⁓ having their risk and insurance in order. so you know, most of our clients, you know, they they own, you know, multi million dollar portfolios. And, you know, an investor might come to me, they’re looking at a deal, they’re analyzing a deal.

And they want to understand, you know, what are the risks associated with that? You know, what’s the premium gonna cost? ⁓ is this a good investment based on ⁓ you know what we call cope information in my in my business? And and you know, if you if you have a pen and pencil, you can write down this. And if you’re an investor, you need to be thinking about this cope, which is construction type, you know, occupancy, you know, who’s occupying your properties that you’re buying, ⁓ protection class.

Which is basically how close are you to the fire station? ⁓ you know, what’s the risk involved in your area? And then what’s your exposures, right? So, you know, those are the types of conversations we’re having with investors all the time, ⁓ because you know, they they can’t really get deals done, they can’t maintain a portfolio from a longevity perspective without having some sort of risk management or insurance in place.

Joseph Crooms (05:13)
Antonio, let’s ⁓ separate those. Let’s take each one because you sh you y you you you brought up something that I may not have a thought of. I’m not a real estate, ⁓ but I never how close am I to my fire station or the risk management for the construction, you know, I just you know just entering those things. Break down how you have related to ⁓ apartment buildings

a matter of fact, give me some investment side of those ⁓ investments that you’re dealing with at the same time.

Antonio Lee (05:45)
Yeah, that that’s a great question. And I’m glad you asked the question. ⁓ so when we’re looking at different real estate investments that our clients are purchasing or within their portfolio and they’re looking to ensure, for example, one of the first questions we’re gonna ask is what’s the construction made of, right? ⁓ a frame construction building burns a lot faster than what we call a masonry, non combustible block building or even a metal building. We’re seeing an emergence of

you know, folks using steel and metal to ⁓ you know to construct buildings. ⁓ when was the the roof last updated, right? So, you know, when you think about construction, you have mechanical, H V A C, you have electrical, you have plumbing. And the underwriters that we work with, they’re gonna want to know what’s the you know, the specifics around how these buildings are constructed, because they’re ultimately taking the risk.

to you know ensure those buildings and we’re talking about you know tens of millions of dollars of property values, they’re gonna wanna know like what’s the likelihood of damage happening if there’s a fire, a storm, ⁓ you know, if it’s a powerful wind comes through. So that’s the reason why we focus on construction really first.

Joseph Crooms (07:02)
And from the outer, how do you deal with the inner? Like you know, you know, you’re dealing with construction, they may have to lay some electricity. They are they up the coal. How does that play into risk management and ⁓ and ⁓ and a real estate investor, you answering those questions, how did that play?

Antonio Lee (08:08)
Yeah, it it makes it makes the world a difference. I mean, you you mentioned electrical and I know that if we ha we have some investors on here that you maybe you purchase older buildings that are in the urban core, which is a lot of our portfolio. there’s certain manufacturers of of electrical panels that insurance companies just won’t even insure or they’ll price them so high that it’s just unaffordable. So, you know, you wanna know when you get that appraisal and you do your own inspection.

you know, when were the systems updated, right? So ⁓ it’s really important when it comes down to, you know, ensuring a building or managing the risk or preventing, you know, future issues happening. Like for example, one of the main questions is is the plumbing copper or is it PVC? Right? We’re gonna want to know that because, you know, we want to know the longevity of those particular systems in a particular building.

So to take it a step further, ⁓ it’s not only just the you know how the building is constructed or the MEP, which we call you know mechanical, electrical, and plumbing in our space, but also what’s the occupancy, right? ⁓ are we looking at a retail store? Are you you’re investing in a commercial building versus a multifamily building? those are worlds of difference when it comes to underwriting risk. you know, carriers are more apt.

to frankly ensure a commercial building and provide better terms than they do a multifamily building. ⁓ you know, we obviously have those in our portfolio, but you know, habitational risk are are tough. they’re getting a lot better because the market is softening, but you know, so from an exterior interior perspective, in terms of how the building is constructed, what’s inside, what type of

you know, risk is gonna be occupying the building. Those are all things important and those all conversations we’re having with our clients on a daily basis as they make decisions.

Joseph Crooms (10:04)
Thank you for sharing that. Antonio, we’re on a seesaw and you mentioned that you do have multifamily businesses and commercial. How much ⁓ multifamily business do you have and that you give to the consultation versus the commercial? And you can do what

Antonio Lee (10:24)
Yeah. So I would say fifty fifty. Fifty fifty split between, you know, our our investors or our clients in the real estate vertical that have commercial portfolios versus multifamily portfolios.

Joseph Crooms (10:36)
And and when you say fifty fifty, how much would you say on a scale do ⁓ on a you know, how many numbers would you say you have right now?

Antonio Lee (10:44)
When you say when you say numbers, do you mean a number of clients that we have?

Joseph Crooms (10:49)
How many commercial com commercial, how many just on the estimate, and how many ⁓ in this year alone?

Antonio Lee (10:56)
Yeah, that would be hard to quantify, but I say we brought on in the last year and a half about two hundred clients, right? And I would say half of those clients would have portfolios that are residential or multifamily. The other half would have commercial buildings where, you know, their their office occupancies or maybe they could be retail.

Joseph Crooms (11:14)
So I come into your office and I I I say, Hey, I I have this commercial space. Take me through what the consultation will look like.

Antonio Lee (11:24)
I mean, first of all, you know, we do business in twelve different states, right? So first of all it’s gonna be location, you know, where where’s the location? ⁓ you know, so that’s gonna give us an idea of the type of ⁓ cat exposures or or environmental exposures or weather exposures that property’s gonna have. For example, we do business in Texas. So, you know, if you have listeners that are in Texas, they’re gonna have a hurricane risk, right?

If the location is in Kansas, they may have a tornado, which is a wind risk for us. So the first thing is w where is the property going to be located? What’s the mix of the ⁓ geography? And then also how’s the how’s the entity set up, right? Like for new investors, ⁓ you know, who are less seasoned, we we have that conversation about is this gonna be in your personal name? Or are you gonna have a L L C set up, right? ⁓ so that that those are

probably be the two first questions we get into. And then after that we’re gonna want to know again the cope information, construction, occupancy, protection class, the different exposure that are associated with that property, square footage of the property. When’s the last time the building was updated? ⁓ you know, and that’s that’s on the property side. Then obviously we have liability issues that we think about. you know, is there

⁓ an errors in emissions exposure? Are you doing your own property management? ⁓ do you have partners in the investment? Do we have a directors and officers exposure? So there’s a number of different questions that we might ask depending on what we call the risk profile of the investor.

Joseph Crooms (13:04)
And so when you mention ⁓ the partners and ⁓ they have to have s some insurance for each of those categories.

Antonio Lee (13:47)
Well, if you have partners and this is very common, ⁓ you know, just using an example, we have a c a client that provides the real estate aspect of a restaurant chain, right? So they own the buildings and they lease out the buildings to a restaurant chain. ⁓ so what they do in in that scenario is they

leash these buildings out, but they have a partnership, a group of folks, right? And each member is responsible from a liability perspective. So what we do is we put together a directors and officers insurance program so that the directors and officers are protected in the event that the company is sued, the holdings company, and they name all the partners within the company.

Joseph Crooms (14:38)
Antonio, you know, this is a good when I asked you how do you can ⁓ niche the two, I can see why. Because ⁓ how many real estate investors do you find are ignorant to some of those other things that they have to, you know, take advantage of because of the fact that they are an investor or they they have this real estate and they don’t ask them themselves this question.

And w and and what is it w what do you find happens when you look at their face and they say, I didn’t know

Antonio Lee (15:07)
man, Joseph, now you now you’re gonna get me in trouble because I would say at least twenty to thirty percent of our clients ⁓ you know, are really surprised about some of the exposures that they have, ⁓ which, you know, is ⁓ is interesting, but you’d be surprised that you have a lot of savvy business people that just may not be aware of the risk that they’re taking.

One thing I’ve noticed about entrepreneurs is that we love to think about the upside of things. But and again, that’s what what we love about entrepreneurship is you know, getting out there, taking risks, making things happen, growing a business, but sometimes we don’t think about the the downside, right? ⁓ and all the other things that can happen. ⁓ so we’re our job is to help our clients protect their assets.

And so we we’re often reminding folks that, hey, we want you to, you know, be a multimillionaire and have as many properties as possible, but you can lose those properties and those assets just as fast or faster than it took for you to acquire them.

Without the right risk management.

Joseph Crooms (16:14)
Hm. A older commercial build building versus sort of a new one. ⁓ you got solar now and and you’re looking at the roof. Do you look under the solar panels at the roof when you yeah, I’m just curious.

Antonio Lee (16:28)
W when when you say you’re looking at the roof, so so that’s are you regular Yeah.

Joseph Crooms (16:31)
Okay, so even a commercial even a ⁓

residential. But they say, Hey, we got solar panel. But ⁓ your guys are taking but what’s the roof like? And they say, Well I told you I got solar panel.

Antonio Lee (16:38)
Yeah.

Well, I mean, you know, you you have to be pretty savvy to look under the solar panels, but you’d be surprised, ⁓ you know, the the way the technology is moving and underwriting you know, this whole emergence of AI. Well, we’re using AI, ⁓ satellite imaging in our business as well. So you know, some of the underwriters we work with, they’ve become really, really sophisticated in being able to, you know, check on roofs and things of that nature.

but then also an insurance inspection. That’s another thing I think that your viewers should think about whenever they, you know, whenever they ⁓ take on risk or buy a new building or, you know, even purchase insurance. The next the next thing that’s gonna happen is gonna be the inspection, right? ⁓ the insurance companies in in this market, they’re gonna come out and they’re gonna inspect it. They’ll put boots on the ground, they’ll put somebody on the roof to look at the roof to make sure the roof is in the shape.

that you said it was on the application. So ⁓ underwriters are being really savvy about the risk they take on these days.

Joseph Crooms (17:48)
So the underwriter, are you sorta a go between the real estate broker and the underwriter? Do you help select the best underwriters that they should go for?

Antonio Lee (17:57)
Yeah, that’s that’s a great question. So yeah, I’m basically real really good middleman, right? So we specialize in a specific ⁓ vertical meaning real estate. And again, we have thirty percent of heterogeneous heterogeneous business, but when a client comes to me with a particular portfolio or building or ⁓ you know business, you know, our job is to select

the best underwriter that’s going to provide the, you know, the the adequate risk management solutions for that specific building or business. So that’s that’s what we’re really good at, right? We’re really good at looking at a risk and partnering with our over a hundred insurance partners to make sure that we build a program that meets the needs of of that particular client. So that’s a great question. I’m glad you asked it.

Joseph Crooms (18:49)
Thank you. ⁓ so I know that’s not easy, especially in this climate. Here’s another question for you. What’s been keeping your machine running smoothly?

Antonio Lee (19:40)
Grind, grind, hustle. I mean, I think it’s just, you know, ⁓ I think smoothly right might be an overstatement, right? We we run lean just like any other small business, but I think we have a relentless pursuit for client satisfaction, right? So, you know, one of the things that we strive to do, and I say this in all of our marketing, is that we try to be client service centric.

Right. So everything that we do is really surrender centered around delivering the best solution for our client. And I feel like if everyone in the team has that same philosophy, that’s what keeps the engine running. Right. ⁓ so you know, and and I use the word team, building the right team. you know, bringing on the right producers, risk management minds. you know, whenever I work with with someone in our space,

I like to understand what’s their background, you know, how what kind of risk have they worked on so that when we get those complex situations, then we know where to go, right? We know how to approach the the solution. So yeah, that’s a great question. So that’s how we keep it running. We focus on the client.

Joseph Crooms (20:51)
Antonio, how long you’ve how long have you said that you you’ve been in business now?

Antonio Lee (20:55)
I’ve been in business for three years, but I’ve been in this business for twenty five years. So, ⁓ I actually broke off from a larger thirty billion dollar organization. ⁓ and it was time for me to go out and pursue my entrepreneurial desires. So here we are.

Joseph Crooms (21:13)
most of your clients’ real estate investors, is that your primary market?

Antonio Lee (21:17)
Seventy percent of my clients are real estate investors. ⁓ like I said, the other thirty percent are heterogeneous, you know, architects, engineers, contractors, ⁓ artisan trades, things that’s things that kind of touch real estate. we also we actually ensure some nonfor profits like churches and religious organizations. But for the most part, seventy percent of our business is really real estate portfolio investors.

Joseph Crooms (21:43)
So from that three years that you broke out, where is your business at now? Say on a finance, w are you happy where you’re the progression that you’re making?

Antonio Lee (21:52)
I’m the type of person that I think every entrepreneur should be like this. I’m never satisfied. Right. I was I was meeting with my mentor ⁓ a couple weeks ago, and ⁓ you know, he asked me a very similar question. And you know, by any stretch, we’ve we’ve we’ve hit our numbers, we’ve exceeded where most brokerages would be at this time. ⁓ and he asked me, Are you satisfied? And the question and the answer was no, right?

I feel like there’s always another level and there’s always more to learn. There’s always ⁓ an opportunity to scale what we’re doing. ⁓ so yeah, I mean, I think that we are we have reached ⁓ as far as our revenue goes, we’ve reached those goals, ⁓ exceeding exceeded them in the first year and a half. and now it’s a situation to where we’re thinking about how do we get to the next level of scale. So not satisfied, continuing to grow.

Joseph Crooms (22:45)
So scale that you at breaking over, what what would that look like? How much would you would break over like you know I made a I made the jump. How much would you need?

Antonio Lee (22:54)
When you say how much would we need in terms of revenue, are you saying numbers? You want real numbers?

Joseph Crooms (22:59)
So so so revenue versus w you yeah, I’m talking numbers. So revenue. Right now I’m at so and so. This is what my business is doing. What would be a ⁓ the the the shift that you would see like okay, I’m going to the other side, especially where the market is now.

Antonio Lee (23:15)
Yeah. Yeah. So if we if we can get to five million another five million dollars in premium on the books, then I think that we would be in a in a in a scalable situation to where we probably can get more access to capital. We can get some more accounts account executives on the team. And that will take us to another level if we can get about five more million dollars worth of premium on the books within the next, I’d say eighteen months.

Joseph Crooms (23:42)
Okay, I told him. Now every operator I know has a moment where things just got real. Maybe maybe a deal that went sideways or a time someone sat in front of you and you overwhelmed them. They didn’t know all these things. You mind sharing one of those moments of for you here?

Antonio Lee (23:48)
Yeah.

Yeah, so I mean we we have a we have a a large private equity client and ⁓ you know it’s one of those clients that where if you lose that client then it’s like it’s like a ⁓ crap moment. The one that you’re the one that you that you just mentioned, right? ⁓ and and the c and the client frankly threatened to leave because the market shifted, right? And there’s nothing we can do about it. you know, when I say the market shifted,

You know, we we brought on their portfolio, let’s say at X and the market has shifted to half of X, right? So now what are you gonna do? ⁓ because if you lose this client, then you know, especially for a newer a newer organization, then you know, y you might not be able to make payroll or keep the lights on, right? ⁓ so for me it was just reminding the client why they do business with us in the first place.

⁓ you know, we had to do a lot of work. We had to make a lot of promises, which we delivered on. ⁓ you know, you don’t want you don’t want to my mom used to say, don’t never let see your feathers, right? You don’t let see your feathers. But, you know, internally you’re thinking, okay, if I lose this client, then you know, we could we could we could lose a lot. So ⁓ you know, for me, it was just reminding that particular client.

why they decided to do business with us with the first for the first like in the first place. We brought, you know, some of the carriers to the table ⁓ that were gonna be another solution for them. And, you know, they also kind of backed up our promises that, hey, this is the situation as it is today. We know the market has shifted. We’re gonna be putting solutions on the table at renewal. ⁓ and, you know, it’s gonna soften the blow. So, you know, we were able to to save those clients. But

Just going through the process, I tell you what, I was a little nervous. But you know, we made it through.

Joseph Crooms (25:55)
Anton Antonio, thanks for sharing that with me, man. ⁓ that’s the kind of stuff that people don’t talk about enough. ⁓ and honestly, what separates the folks who are who just dabble from the ones who stay in the game long term? Let me ask you this. What is your most what are you most focusing on solving or scaling next? What’s the next real goal for you?

Antonio Lee (26:21)
That’s a good question. So for me is building a team, right? we have a team now, but we’d like to open up a couple new markets. I really like like what’s happening in Denver, and Charlotte. ⁓ so for us, the next thing is to really identify partners in those two markets that can help us kind of scale to the next level. You know, that five million we were talking about. ⁓ if you know, so that’s that’s next for me. Really is to continue

to build out the team ⁓ and continue to identify those areas that are those markets that are emerging that could use you know strong rick risk management presence ⁓ to really help investors, you know, grow their portfolio and keep their assets protected. So that’s what we’re looking forward to, really expanding in in more markets.

Joseph Crooms (27:14)
So that next move it can be ⁓ it can either compound things or create chaos depending on how you play it. Now, I know a ⁓ a lot of people listening are either early in their journey looking to level up and I think they’ll benefit from hearing this. When it comes to building those relationships, tell us, you know, how you utilize I’m in this market, but I I’ve been keeping my eye on ⁓ and in the in my

my my my my portfolio that’s pretty diverse in in other states. what h how has your current relationships who do you bring in to s to probably help you break it a little easy into that that that into Kansas or the Texas. ⁓ what’s what’s made the biggest difference in relationship building for you?

Antonio Lee (27:59)
Think you said the word in the question. I mean it’s relationships, right? you know, I would tell any any entrepreneur, and this is just my personal opinion opinion, is to do what you know, right? When when I got into the business, I was in the business, you know, as an entrepreneur, I was in the business bef 25 years before I was an entrepreneur into the you know, doing what I’m doing, the same business. So I’m doing what I know. So my network has been built.

over years and the relationships that I’ve built during that process of learning and growing and building a career has made really the world a difference. ⁓ the world has become really smaller. Like what you guys are doing on small social media and you know the internet and you know LinkedIn and and and Instagram and Facebook. I mean it’s kinda

A lot easier it is than when I started in the business to reach out and touch someone in a different market. so I think just, you know, having had a a national role with a with a large large corporation, that’s really kind of solidified some credibility for me. So it gives me an opportunity to be able to reach out and touch folks and leverage my relationships.

Joseph Crooms (29:15)
And you would say that’s the biggest diff ⁓ a big difference that you really are knowledgeable. You’re approaching it with mindset. I’m not gonna just touch you and leave. ⁓ I want to establish this relationship. Is that

Antonio Lee (29:28)
Yeah, relationships are everything, you know, like, you know, the the risk management thing, you know, I obviously I you know, I I did the risk management studies and, you know, got the education and all of that. but without relationships, it’s really hard to demonstrate, you know, what you can do. Right? So I think that the biggest differentiator between you know, I would say

You know, my success, I I know I’m harder on myself. I’ll say that now just because, you know, ⁓ comparatively, you know, we are a successful business, but even though we want to push further, ⁓ that’s always hard for me to say because I always feel like success is finite, right? I don’t think, you know, any like for us, you know, success is is a continuation. ⁓ so I would say the differentiator has been relationships. And I think, you know

for everyone on on the call, you know, I think you you need to definitely build the the expertise and you know the education, but without relationships, you won’t be able to demonstrate what you know.

Joseph Crooms (30:32)
Thank you so much, Antonio. ⁓ you can’t fake that. Relationships are everything in the space. All right, before we wrap up, if someone wanted to reach out, connect with you, maybe collaborate, build relationships, or learn more about what you’re doing, what’s the best way to reach you?

Antonio Lee (30:48)
Best place to re reach me is ⁓ through our phone number, which is eight one six two nine eight zero four four four. Or you can email us at ⁓ [email protected]. ⁓ our website is ambitionrisk.com. And so yeah, if you wanted to reach us, you can check us out on our website. ⁓ you know, we do have a vanity number as well, which is 1-844-WE-R-RISK (844-937-7475)

don’t ask me what the numbers are right now because you know, I can’t think about my dollar. But ⁓ yeah, ambitionrisk.com is a way to start. ⁓ you know, reach out to me or someone on my team. we’d be happy to help investors, you know, help manage their risk better. That’s what we do.

Joseph Crooms (31:34)
Perfect. Well listen, I appreciate your time, your story. Frederick Douglass said where there’s no struggle, there’s no progress. And I see ⁓ and you sharing and being transparent with us, you know, how you maneuver this. Thank you so very much for sharing that with the with our audience. We need more people in this space who are doing the right ⁓ the it the right way. Thanks again for being here. And for those of you tuning in, I know you got some value from this. So

Normally I say I I hope you got some value, but I know you did. So make sure you subscribe. We got more conversations coming with operators like Antonio Lee. I’ve said his full name, guys. he was great. ⁓ who are building real businesses, helping real estate. ⁓ he’s in risk management, but he is so closely related to ⁓ real estate, I don’t think you can make it without him. ⁓

Antonio, we’ll see you on the next episode, everyone. And Antonio, please say goodbye.

Antonio Lee (32:34)
Thanks guys. Thanks for having me, Joseph.