Navigating Real Estate Challenges: Christian Osgood’s Expert Tips

Michael Stansbury (00:00.118)
Hello everybody. Welcome to the Real Estate Pros Podcast. I’m Mike Stansbury and I’ve got Christian Osgood, lives in Texas, used to live in Washington, now back in Washington. We’ll get into that here shortly. But Christian, how are you, sir?

Christian Osgood (00:14.556)
Yeah.

I am doing fantastic. We are one of the only two months of the year where it’s actually beautiful in Washington state. So I’d love and being up here at my seller finance resort right now that we bought probably too early in my career. We may or may not get into that today, but yeah, I’m over here having a blast. How are you, man?

Michael Stansbury (00:35.49)
I’m excellent, thank you for asking. I’m in Memphis, Tennessee, so a little different than Texas or Washington. Humid today, but actually kind of nice. But we’re not here to talk about the weather in certain places. Here to talk about fun times in real estate, but first I gotta tell everybody about Investor Fuel. Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers, real estate pros, entrepreneurs, two to five expert businesses to allow them to build the businesses they’ve always wanted and allow them to live the lives they’ve always dreamed of.

Christian Osgood (00:43.504)
There we go.

Michael Stansbury (01:04.94)
Now Christian, you’ve got a really robust media presence out there on Interlamp, but I want to know the origin story. Alright, how did you get started in the Yellowbrook Road of real estate? When did you pivot or make the decision that I’m going to do this? And what were you doing beforehand?

Christian Osgood (01:21.842)
Yeah, so my I was always interested in real estate and like a lot of people I was dabbling in a lot of stuff to try to figure out financial freedom So I was looking at everything online and was stuck where I think most people were in information overload a lot of people Read the Robert Kiyosaki book. He read rich dad poured ad, you know, like I decided to be an entrepreneur I was the opposite of most I was raised on Dave Ramsey my mentor growing up in high school Dave Ramsey so the model what I set out for is

Let’s go to college, let’s get a scalable career. Let’s continue to earn, earn, earn, earn so that I can buy real estate myself in cash or with limited debt. So I bought my house. Actually, my first deal was actually a condo in 2016 and I did the live and flip thing. I watched Bigger Pockets. I’m like, wait a second, it’s two bed, two bath. So I can house hack this and live and flip it at the same time. Essentially what I was doing is I was gluing in every strategy that I could find.

to maximize the profits of an unbelievably small business, which we’ll get into, but I made a pivot a little later where I decided to scale the business and I realized, you one condo at a time isn’t really gonna move you forward. Like you can have an insanely profitable condo or you can do consistent good deals and multifamily and have hundreds of units. You have to have top line to have bottom line. So I chose to pivot my business in a way that maximized my top line revenue so that I could actually have.

the freedom that I was originally going after. I was working for a co-star group by the way, to answer your question directly. My long routes to get there, get a job, worked for lands.com. They got bought by the co-star group. They own loopnet, apartments.com, homes.com, the co-star, they’re a titanic, multi-billion dollar company. And I made the mistake that most people do. I went, got a job in real estate, so now I’m more qualified to buy real estate.

Michael Stansbury (02:53.697)
Okay.

Christian Osgood (03:14.746)
I added a step that has nothing to do with being a real estate investor. So I’ll cut to the punchline. What I discovered after eight years of a sales career and a total of five units that I purchased the conventional way through earned income, what I learned was you do not need to add steps and there’s one way and one way alone to be an investor. You buy a darn property and you’re gonna learn a thousand times more on the first deal than you did in the eight years you spent studying for

Michael Stansbury (03:43.746)
That’s true. In fact, one of the things that I’m always reminded of, the first deal I ever did, I was young and I was stupid and I lost $10,000 and I had turned to my wife and I said, hey, we’re gonna do this again. Yeah, that’s right. Why not double it? But that’s true, that’s true. let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about the, so you pivoted. obviously, Dave,

Christian Osgood (03:58.482)
There we go this time we’re lose 20 now, I’m

Michael Stansbury (04:11.885)
probably wouldn’t approve with, maybe he would, you know, cause I don’t want to cast aspersions. I’m familiar with Dave Ramsey, I live in Tennessee, so Dave’s pretty big here. But obviously, you know, Dave’s big on not using debt. And I know what his story was in debt. I know he got flushed out of that and that had an effect on how he acquired and did things. But tell me kind of, you know, where do you veer off on now?

Christian Osgood (04:20.498)
See you.

Michael Stansbury (04:40.493)
and how you operate, how do you veer from the Dave Ramsey School of Thought?

Christian Osgood (04:45.916)
So what I found is like, yeah, a lot of people, Dave Ramsey’s method was so palatable, right? Because it’s, well, if you have less debt, you’ll save more money. If you have less, the concept is so simple, If you spend less, you’ll have more. It’s like, well, you can’t refute that. Of course that’s true. The problem is the actual scalability. So what I was looking at is I did not want to do the mistake that he did in his portfolio.

He made the assumption, as many young people do early in his career, of I can just keep buying, buying, buying, and if they’re negative today, if I hold them longer into the future, one day they’ll be profitable, and one day they’ll pay me, and I’ll get all this appreciation and I’ll be rich. Well, he was borrowing on three months, six months, and one year debt. And there was a bank change, and all of a sudden, he no longer can refinance in the long-term debt. And he lost the portfolio, and it scarred him, and he came up with what is true for a lot of people.

Well, this can’t happen if I don’t borrow. It’s correct conclusion. The problem is, I’m like, okay, well, I want to scale beyond the money that I have right now. And I would spend eight years to acquire two duplexes. Each duplex was cash flowing just over $1,000. So essentially, I created a $24,000 a year income, and I lived in a house in the Seattle area where the mortgage was $2,000 a month.

tiny little 1955 house. It was 1,280 square feet. Huge backyard though. Loved my little house, that is what a college, a relatively high paying sales job, my wife teaching kindergarten with no kids, that’s what you can afford in Seattle with working over full time. That was not financial freedom. The big change for me is this is when the whole world shut down for a little while, especially in Seattle.

in 2019, 2020. I’m sitting at home, my outside sales job is not doing a whole lot of outside sales because we’re not allowed to be outside apparently. My wife is teaching kindergarten online. We finally get back to in person and she gets pushed down on the playground and breaks her back. And we’re just like, we are so tired of this. This is not worth our health. This is not a good use of our time and we’re not moving forward in the rate that we want to. So.

Christian Osgood (07:04.377)
The decision that I made is, how do you avoid the catastrophic failure that Dave had? And the answer that I found, which is very aligned with Rich Dad Poor Dad, what if we use the debt to buy assets that cashflow more than the debt? And what if we just said, hey, there are deals out there that will make a lot of money, but they start cashflow negative. And we’re gonna say no to every single one of them. So every time I buy a deal, it pays me every month I own it, day one.

What are the other problems we can run into? Changing interest rates. Okay, how do we fix that? Long-term fixed rate debt. That’s all I do on my side of the equation. We’ll talk about the seller side and how you get creative, I’m sure, throughout this podcast. But on my side, every time the answer is day one cash flow, long-term fixed rate debt, and I need to buy deals where I don’t have to sell the deal in order to make it work, which means I can hold everything indefinitely. And this is a fact.

If you hold any piece of real estate for a long period of time, it will absolutely be worth more. The key is not losing it along the way. So what we ended up doing was buying a absolute boatload of real estate. In fact, next week it will be about 400 units of real, of a multifamily over the last five years, starting with $0 on the principle of when I close, I get paid and my income goes up forever. That’s, that’s what I solved for and how I solved for the Dave Ramsey side of the equation of

less debt. I’m like, well, how do you offset less debt? You buy things that have more income than their debt costs. That was my answer.

Michael Stansbury (08:35.009)
Well, this is the old Stephen Covey thing is, you know, begin with the end in mind and you actually have a filter. And so some real estate folks are, it’s the wild, wild west. They just don’t know what they don’t know, you know, when they’re starting out, but you figured out like, well, actually this can be done if you filter it this way, if it has to hit these three parameters, otherwise the deal doesn’t work. so with that being said, let’s, let’s do dive into the creative side. So a lot of people, when you get creative,

Christian Osgood (08:40.038)
Yes.

Michael Stansbury (09:05.069)
People are used to, I find people, get used to doing things a certain way and then they rub up against something creatively or subject to and they just shut down. They’re just like, I don’t wanna hear it, I don’t wanna hear it, I don’t wanna hear it because it could be better than what I’m doing or whatever. But I wanna hear it, I, because I love to be shaken and going, I’ve done that the wrong way, I need to do it this way. give me your best, give me, choose your own adventure, remember those books.

Christian Osgood (09:15.986)
Mm.

Michael Stansbury (09:34.487)
Tell us a creative deal that you’ve done that could probably blow somebody’s mind. Hey, here’s the traditional way. It could have been done. Here’s the creative way, and this is why it works.

Christian Osgood (09:45.136)
Okay, well, I’m a multifamily guy. And so I’m actually probably hurting my own brand by talking about my hospitality project, but it’s perfect because I’m sitting in it right now. So I’m gonna caveat this with a disclaimer. Multifamily is so much easier to scale. I make unbelievably more money in creative finance on the multifamily side, but this is a perfect example of this will blow your mind of what you can actually do. So.

one building over across the other land parcel, the other side of me here, there is a resort called the Robin Hood Village Resort. We bought it for four and a half million dollars. At the time, I had 23,400 and some odd dollars in my bank account. So this was a year into real estate. For you guys who are gonna heckle me, well, you weren’t broke, had $20,000. $20,000 is not enough to buy a four and a half million dollar piece of real estate, I promise you, unless you get a little creative. It’s the same thing as having zero dollars. It is the same thing as no money.

We find this deal, they’ve been trying to sell it for two years.

The way that was written, there is no bank product at all where we could have bought this where it would cashflow. And the down payment on hospitality, especially at the time we bought it for three years ago, hospitality was not a favorite asset of the banks. Remember, this is coming right out of the 2019, 2020, it was the very back end of 2022. So banks don’t like hospitality. We’d have a huge down payment and we have high interest. So what do we do? We got together with the seller and we sat down and we said, okay,

I know what my goal is. It is, I need a cashflow, day one, and I need long-term fixed rate debt. They were absolutely open to seller financing. They happen to have exactly zero dollars of debt on the resort. He got really creative. He bought two properties and then sold the RV park down the street to pay off this note. So he got a little bit creative with his deal structure to have a debt-free property. They wanted to move to Costa Rica and retire. That was their sole goal.

Christian Osgood (11:45.094)
We’re done being resort owners. We’re done with business. We’re at the end of our career. Our kids don’t want the business. We just want out. We ended up negotiating a note at four and a half percent interest only for eight years. That is a long time at very cheap interest. In fact, it was cheap enough where the resort, even in our off season,

we were making profit. So we got to buy it where it worked on the books. And if they were doing a little bit better in their marketing, they probably could have got a little higher interest rate, but that’s where the deal cashflowed for me and we’re able to lock that in. So we buy a four and a half million dollar resort across the street. And so you might think, okay, cool, but that’s an isolated deal. That’s not everywhere. The house next door that I’m in today, this is also an Airbnb and it’s rented by Robin Hood Village Resort. So this is an extension of our resort.

This is two and a half acres. There’s two RV spots. There’s a massive storage shed. There’s 4,000 square foot of house on the water here. You guys probably can’t see out the window behind me, but we’re on the Hood Canal. There’s orcas that go down there. It’s, mean, it’s, Foothills, the Olympic Mountains. The city of Union hates it when I say this, so sorry. But the next door neighbor is the Bill Gates family estate. Like when I’m talking like beautiful real estate, this is a one of one property in a one of one location.

Michael Stansbury (12:47.597)
We’re trusting you.

Christian Osgood (13:07.142)
House goes for sale next door, they want 900,000. They had no intention of carrying a contract. We reached out, hey, would you guys sell our finance? I’m sorry we can’t, we still have some debt on it. Then they call me back the next day. Actually, you know what? We’ll just pay off our debt and we’ll sell our finance to you. I didn’t, there was no negotiation, I just pitched the idea like, hey, I just bought the resort next door, this would be a really cool expansion. I have exactly zero dollars, I just spent everything that I have on the resort, which was, by the way, not much money.

They said yes. Yeah, so they said yes. So if you’re listening to this, you’re like, well, $0 is my budget. I didn’t just buy one property. Two different transactions. closed in the same month for both of them. I added to the resort. This is now where almost, so we have a wedding venue there. We also host a bunch of concerts there. This property has made that property so much more valuable. This is where they do all of the staging for the weddings. They usually do the…

Michael Stansbury (13:38.01)
which was exactly zero dollars.

Michael Stansbury (13:49.901)
It’s a beautiful thing.

Christian Osgood (14:06.418)
reception over on this property, but our events got better. Our bookings got better. This place is a huge, huge property. It gets top dollar in a great location. While I’m not a hospitality guy, Creative Finance bought me not one, but two properties. And the amount of money I had at the time was insufficient to buy either. I now own a business that does events, concerts, weddings.

Every cabin has its own hot tubs. It has beautiful hot tub forest retreat. These are luxury items. I gotta buy rich guy stuff with zero dollars and make a profit doing it. This is a perfect example of something that I think would blow most people’s minds. You would not think that this would be possible to do. We did it twice in the same month in the same area in a town I didn’t know existed until I found the resort.

Michael Stansbury (14:58.187)
So curious, so how did the deal come across your palette in the first place?

Christian Osgood (15:03.762)
I had a friend, Dion McNeely, has a YouTube channel called Dion Talk Financial Freedom. He actually is hosting BPCon in Vegas this year, so it’s been fun to watch his journey take off. I had just started my YouTube channel, and it was bad, as you are when you start YouTube. This way, I think today I have a little over 100,000 subscribers, so I’m still not huge, but I’ve gotten a little better. You guys are welcome to check that out, multifamily strategy. But I was at like 900 people.

Dion lived a little south and he’s like, hey, I heard about you guys. I’m impressed with what you’re doing. He was actually teaching me how to run lives on YouTube because I couldn’t figure out the camera. And so I’m at his house. He’s helping me launch a YouTube channel. And he’s like, yeah, I just passed on this deal because I just want to be absolutely passive. He’s like, I do not want a job. And there’s this resort down in Union, Washington that’s a job. And I’m like, well, that sounds interesting. Now in retrospect,

way too early for me to jump from multifamily to try to learn another business, I think that slowed me down astronomically. I would be two to three times the size of him if I didn’t get distracted with hospitality. But at the time, when I was young and dumb, was like, well, this is, I do have time. I just left my job. We had just enough cash flow where I had financial freedom. I wasn’t rich, but I was free. I was right at that like $15,000 a month of cash flow where I was like, I don’t technically have to work to do what I want.

I have excess time, why not me? Why can’t I be the one to take this resort, own it through its hundredth year of operation? This would be really cool. And so we chose the adventure as opposed to common business sense. But we were able to put it together and it happened and it does run profitably. It’s been an interesting adventure to say the least. I’ve learned a lot, but it’s an illustration of what’s possible.

some random person from YouTube land when I had 900 subscribers said, hey, this is the wrong deal for me. This could be the right deal for you. We drove down and made it happen.

Michael Stansbury (17:09.037)
That’s the power of people networking. You just never know. And it’s interesting, you when you laid out the fact that you bought this, that you’re in the Airbnb that you’re in now and it’s right, it’s literally right next door to your resort. You know, one of the things, this scarcity mindset of investors, it’s, when you’re new, it kind of creeps in a little bit. The first house I ever flipped was in 2008. And, you know, I was thinking, well, this is fun. I hope I get to do this for a living.

Christian Osgood (17:28.379)
Mm-mm.

Michael Stansbury (17:38.494)
And so what I did was is there was a house two doors down that looked terrible. So I put a post-it note on the door and just said, I’m flipping the house, I’m rehabbing the house down the street from you. If you guys are looking to sell, please give me a call. Well, six months later, they kept that little tag and I flipped the house on the same street. These are the first two that I did. So what it did, just like what yours did, and I want people to hear this is it,

Christian Osgood (18:02.194)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Stansbury (18:07.617)
verified like this is actually this is not only just real, but it’s repeatable and I can do this again and again and again. I didn’t just get lucky So which is which I think is what people need to hear is like man. You just got lucky You got that deal. No, it’s just it’s just sometimes you got to make you got to take action where where there’s action to be taken So with that being said

You know, so now you moved it to you got this deal and how hard is the asset right now? Are you still hardening the asset? And what I mean by that is, yeah, tell me about that and then let’s talk about Texas here after that.

Christian Osgood (18:51.996)
So the asset itself, it’s doing really well. What I do need to do is I need to come in and do a refresh of the cabins. If I was to go back in time, I would have come in and I would have raised additional capital and I would have gone farther for the project. When I first started, I did everything out of cashflow, which is basically equivalent, if you want an easy analogy. It’s like cleaning your house one room at a time. Like, hey, I’m gonna clean one room every day.

You’re always behind the ball. It takes the time it would take just to do the project and extends it out. Always start your project with all of the capital that you will need to do the project. And if suddenly you find that your numbers don’t work, congratulations, you don’t have a deal. Don’t close that one. That’s the lesson to learn here. So we’re three years in, we’re pretty much through it. It’s pretty well stable. We have a set marketing budget. We have a lot of repeat customers. have…

Everything is pretty much firing. There’s a few upgrades I wanna do that we’ll do at the end of summer since this is our big revenue season. We’re Washington state, summer’s the only time you wanna travel to a cabin. But once we are through this summer, I think this will be a rock solid, like we finished the project, but we’re pretty much done. This is a solid stabilized asset. It was a hard, hard, hard road though to get from A to B. There was a lot to do.

Michael Stansbury (20:13.549)
Okay, and now, and you’re also doing this, you’re there now, but you’re doing this from Texas. You moved to Texas and you moved there a year ago and new market and you’re like, okay, know, Washington, different state, different rules, Texas may be a little bit more wide open. So tell me about what you’re doing in Texas, kind of the deal flow and what does that look like for you?

Christian Osgood (20:17.83)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Osgood (20:34.652)
So this was really encouraging. when you’re first sharing the adventure online, common response is like, well, you got lucky or you found the perfect market. And so I started in a city called Moses Lake, Washington. I bought a duplex there. Then we bought a 38 unit. And the 38 unit was on market for 12 years. We bought it for $2 million. But it’s our finance, $0 out of pocket. It later appraised a year later for like $4.2 million, $4.18 something.

We made seven figures on one deal We only bought 12s and 10s. It’s like I started in this one market and so it’s like, okay did I clean up a market in a blue state that too much opportunity or Does this work everywhere? I did a seller finance deal in Seattle. It worked amazingly. We made a ton of money We bought this resort over in Union. It’s the other side of state now, Texas We go to a totally different political environment. So now we’re in a red state

In theory, it should be harder to find deals there because I’ve never heard of an out of stater. You don’t hear people from Texas being like, you know where I gotta buy? I gotta buy in Washington state. You never heard of that before. But everyone wants to invest in Texas. there was a question of everyone, you know, it’s like, okay, well, it’s a higher cashflow area. It’s politically more friendly for landlords. Is the amount of competition gonna kill us?

Michael Stansbury (21:44.989)
Everybody wants to exist. Yeah.

Christian Osgood (21:57.522)
I found a little town called Stephenville, Texas. It’s an hour and a half out of Dallas. So this is right, right in the backyard.

Older gentleman winding down his multifamily portfolio. He has the largest law firm in town. He owns a ton of retail. He owns a ton of single family. And he’s like, you know what? I’m in my early eighties. I’m going to off the multifamily part of my portfolio. He has a price in mind. We come down 25 units, $2 million for transaction. It was big enough to merit the flight down to Texas, which is part of why I don’t buy single family personally.

I like to buy deals that are worth the travel costs to go see. And so we go down, I meet him, we close on this deal. Seller financed, 5%. Interest only. Actually, to get it to cash flow, we did the first year on a reverse AM, which I won’t go super into, but basically our payments were less than the interest, so we cash flowed. We bought it at a steep enough discount where the math was essentially, we’re gonna add like $40,000 to the total value of this. Does it still work if we buy it for

Two million forty thousand dollars. That’s that’s how you do the math for those. The answer was yes, we bought it in cash flow day one I was now in the market All I did and I do this in every market Real estate goes to insiders not outsiders if you’re like, how do you get off market deals? Well people know you I just called the neighbors of the property which takes all of a month to meet everyone and I just booked coffee meetings with them for one month I just said hey, I’m gonna I’m gonna be down here often

I’m gonna go talk to the people who own real estate in this market, especially multifamily. Most towns of 30 to 100 people, you have like seven significant players. You meet all of them, you get talking and now they know, okay, there’s a new guy here. He spent his last dollar on this. So they all know I don’t have any cash on me right now. I’ve shared my story. I’m now down here.

Michael Stansbury (23:42.892)
Yes.

Michael Stansbury (23:54.712)
They’ve already talked about you at the Cracker Barrel. They all met and they talked about you.

Christian Osgood (23:58.761)
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Who’s the new guy? And everyone’s like, Oh, yeah. Okay. So we get it. He doesn’t have any money. He’s expanding. He’s done some deals in Washington. He’s found our little town. One of them calls me and says, Hey, I got a development project that just came up. I need to get rid of my 26 unit building right now. It’s right down the street from your 25. Now, I would have bought it for $2 million. For sure. It’s a newer building than the 25 I bought smaller units, but it’s gorgeous, cute little building.

Easily worth a hundred thousand a door or so. I was like, okay, I would have paid two he asked for 1.8 I’m like, well, what the heck if he’s desperate like How do you feel about 1.6? He didn’t count it all. He’s like sure 1.6. Yes $400,000 less than I’d be willing to pay for this We went to the bank got an 80 % LTV loan and I had one investor who I met over pickleball actually I did my buddy Caleb played pickleball with him. He’s like this guy’s trying to invest in Texas, too

He gave us all the money to close and an extra $100,000 for the account. So we come in with a reserve budget funded, any reno we needed funded, closed the deal, one partner. I don’t wanna have partners forever. So we have an option contract there at the end of five years, I have the rights to buy them out for 2X what he put into the building, which we are already well above that equity position. Simple deal.

I didn’t have the money. It needed a little bit money down. They couldn’t get creative. So the creative structure here is okay, if we can’t get creative on the debt, let’s get the best debt product we can and let’s get creative on the equity. And we brought one person in. I hate variables. That’s one thing that Dave does well. It’s eliminated variables. So how do we do that? Give yourself an option. I bought myself time to own it myself. I have a, what do I have? 60 % of the equity in that.

That’s one of the highest cashflow deals in my portfolio today. I spent zero dollars in a few years. I’ll refinance. Actually, I might refinance this year, but depending on interest rates this year or in the next few years, I’ll refinance and buy them out. The real estate bought the real estate. It’s still zero down real estate. You can do it creatively. You can do it conventionally. The answer is always what is the least creative way to get everyone what they want. They needed cash for development. So them holding a contract.

Christian Osgood (26:21.924)
Not on the table. Doesn’t fit. What’s the right debt product? 80 % bank debt. We have the cash flow and the debt service coverage for it. Knock it out. Where’s the rest of the money coming from? Easiest way to do it. Find someone who already has the money, who likes the idea of making money in real estate. And I’ll tell you what, there’s a lot of people who can get behind making money in real estate. There’s no lack of capital there.

Michael Stansbury (26:44.759)
There just isn’t folks. And so I love that you articulated these two deals, especially coming into a new market and being able to just go to work and talk to the people that own the real estate there. And so just two great actionable items that you taught our audience. So Christian, where…

Can people find out more about you, more about multifamily, what you’re doing, your YouTube channel? Tell us about that and where people can find you.

Christian Osgood (27:15.322)
Yeah, YouTube channels, multifamily strategy, the same as I have a mentorship group in the community where, my goodness, did last month at 13 students by their first apartment complex, which is awesome. Like 13 apartment complexes, first time is, it’s an incredible thing to get to witness. But multifamily strategy, the YouTube channel, I share the entire adventure there. I think we’re over 2000 videos now, which by the way, if you’re reverse engineering this, I have a hundred thousand subs.

that’s actually pretty bad. It took me a while to get good at articulating this. But if you wanna see the adventure and see like practically how do these deals get put together? How do we manage the deals? What does it look like? What types of properties do I buy? I buy a lot of really, like, I don’t know how well you guys can see the background here by me, but I buy a lot of very nice buildings that cashflow. I’m down for a value add project, but I do a lot of fairly turnkey cash flowing real estate.

If you want to learn how to do that, it’s free. The information’s on YouTube. It’s great place. If you want to message me directly, I’m super responsive on Instagram. It’s at my name, at Christian Osgood.

Michael Stansbury (28:22.573)
Alright folks, well there you have it. Christian, thank you for being part of the Real Estate Pros podcast. If you guys want to know or find out more information about Chris, direct message him on IG and check out his YouTube channel. Folks, you know what to do, like and subscribe. We will see you next time on the Real Estate Pros podcast.