Investing in Historic Homes and Buildings

John Harcar (00:01.025)
All right. Hey guys, welcome back to the show. I’m your host, John Harcar. And today we’re here with Michael Bedenbaugh. And what we’re going to talk about is historic and older homes and why they’re important and why they’re a good investment. Guys, remember here at Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers. I mean, really all real estate entrepreneurs, two to five extra business. We do it by providing tools and resources to grow the business you want to grow, which in turn helps you live the life you’ve always dreamed of. Michael, welcome to our show.

Mike Bedenbaugh (00:30.082)
Thank you John for having me, I appreciate it.

John Harcar (00:32.631)
Yeah, I’m excited to talk about historic homes and I’ve marketed to some of those, never had any luck with them, but before we get into the weeds and talk about all that stuff, why don’t you fill our audience in a little bit about your background, where you came from, how you got into real estate, and what got you here.

Mike Bedenbaugh (00:51.042)
Well, thank you. So my background is kind of like the feather in the Forrest Gump movie. I have been all over the place because I, you know, I love going where my whim and interest takes me at the time. And so I grew up in South Carolina in a rural setting. I grew up on a farm here that was inland that my great grandfather farmed. In fact, the house I live in now, my office is in my grandfather’s home I restored from 1926.

John Harcar (00:57.529)
You

John Harcar (01:05.731)
Hmm.

John Harcar (01:20.729)
Hmm.

Mike Bedenbaugh (01:20.878)
I live within two miles of where my Revolutionary War ancestor lived and so I only say that because I grew up with a sense of place mattered, right? Where I was and I always carried that with me even to the point of when I went to school and as being most, you know, 18 year old young man in the late 70s, I really didn’t know what I wanted to do. So I ended up dropping out of college and joined the Navy.

John Harcar (01:31.939)
Mmm.

Mike Bedenbaugh (01:48.948)
And lo and behold, when I got in the Navy, scared to death, sitting there, I’m looking at the Blue Jackets manual and there was the USS South Carolina and I was actually able to get to serve on that because I love my home state. Yeah, I love my home state so much. So I got out of there. Then I got interested in Russia because we had Soviet Union following us around in their ships all the time out on the Atlantic Ocean. I took Russia, when I got out of the Navy, I took Russian studies.

John Harcar (01:59.454)
Awesome. Awesome.

Mike Bedenbaugh (02:17.39)
and did that for a while, went to Russia in 1990. And then I met somebody, we started a marketing business and I did that up in New York and then brought it down. Grew it to be a $5 million a year business, promotional business, headquartered here in South Carolina. And then when that ended in divorce, I was like, what do I do? What do I do with my life? And I became head of Preservation South Carolina, which was the nonprofit.

John Harcar (02:17.721)
Hmm.

Mike Bedenbaugh (02:46.01)
of South Carolina, kind of like what the National Trust is for the country, this was for the state of South Carolina. And I took that nonprofit and turned it into a, basically a nonprofit realty company where I would go out and find historical places that people cared about but wasn’t able to take care of. And we would either have buildings donated to us or we had a revolving fund that I built up.

where we could buy old buildings, fix them up and put them back out on the market and sell them and put easements on them. The nonprofit purpose was to save them in perpetuity. But put them back out into the private marketplace. And I just love that. And I love the concept of how old buildings and old places tell the story of where people live, tell the story of communities.

And that’s what helps give value to place, right? Well, one of the things I realized when I was doing that, and I did it for about 15 years, and I did that and I realized how many real estate professionals, because I needed to use real estate professionals to help me sell the properties, how so many had no understanding of old buildings and how so many developers refused to acknowledge old buildings mattered.

John Harcar (03:43.373)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

John Harcar (03:58.424)
Great.

Mike Bedenbaugh (04:07.976)
And you know, we live in such a consumptive society. I understand people like something shiny and new all the time. And we also have businesses, banking, all the different systems that go into invest in a place tends to become regimented. And that regimentation had no room for anything old or looked like it had to be worked on. And people’s prejudices were too. mean, every time I’d go to an old place in a community, an old house,

John Harcar (04:13.866)
Right.

John Harcar (04:24.344)
Bien.

John Harcar (04:29.657)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Bedenbaugh (04:36.622)
The first thing people would come up with movies about haunted houses and how awful they were and ooh, and you know, they’re scary. And I said, no, they’re a place where people loved and the intention. You could tell people put loving intention in this place at one time and that’s what we wanna attract and bring back. So, story short, after that I retired from there and I went into the real estate business. I got my real estate license and this was only three years ago.

John Harcar (04:41.003)
I’m sorry.

John Harcar (04:54.765)
Right.

John Harcar (05:04.983)
Hmm.

Mike Bedenbaugh (05:05.23)
I’ve only been doing actual real estate sales as an agent, as a realtor, for three years. I’ve been doing investing and stuff on my own for about 15. And that’s it. That’s how I ended up being here.

John Harcar (05:11.449)
Okay.

John Harcar (05:15.543)
Right.

John Harcar (05:19.883)
Okay, so from going from in the Navy, learning Russian, you did a marketing, what was your marketing company you had? that in real estate or what type of marketing were you doing?

Mike Bedenbaugh (05:29.036)
No, no, no, I’m sorry. That was just promotional merchandise stuff. We did product promotion for the film industry and the record industry. So the movie Shrek, I did the three-dimensional marketing for that, for Universal Pictures. We had an office in LA and New York, different artists, PM Dawn and all these other folks we did marketing for.

John Harcar (05:32.621)
Okay.

John Harcar (05:44.929)
cool.

John Harcar (05:58.329)
Okay.

Mike Bedenbaugh (05:58.818)
That’s what I did there.

John Harcar (06:01.347)
How did that translate to getting into real estate or where did that real estate interest or even the older home stuff interest come from?

Mike Bedenbaugh (06:09.464)
Well, I’ve always loved older homes. I I went into that because I met a woman that became my wife and she had just started the company. So I just started running it for her. You know, it’s really about my life at least is really about a creative approach to how to make anything work. Right? How do you take, know, like in, in my marketing company, when we were approached about how to promote Shrek by DreamWorks.

John Harcar (06:20.025)
Okay.

John Harcar (06:27.651)
Yeah.

Mike Bedenbaugh (06:38.958)
you know, they came to us and we had a month to come up with some sort of mirror that I could push a button and it would come up mirror, mirror on the wall. And it’d be like the mirror that was in the Shrek movie. And I was able to engineer a pewter mirror and make it work and ship out 3,000 of them in a month. And so that type of problem solving is what I took to preservation South Carolina.

John Harcar (06:49.709)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Bedenbaugh (07:05.294)
to my true love of old buildings and old places. And I figured out how, you know, an old Gullah cottage on the Fusky Island, which is a, a bridge-less island where a lot of the Gullah people still live. And there was a tourist industry built there. We wanted to save the old Gullah cottages that told the story of these people. And I came up with a system of how we can make them vacation rentals and use the funds to help pay the family to restore the buildings.

John Harcar (07:07.897)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (07:27.031)
bright.

Mike Bedenbaugh (07:35.234)
The same year I was trying to figure out how to move an 1880s mansion, 800 ton mansion, and we had to move it two blocks to save it. So in one year I was moving an 800 ton mansion into one of the most business friendly cities in the state, in Greenville, and at same time I’m fixing up an 800 square foot little gullet shack underneath a live oak tree on the Fusky.

John Harcar (07:35.406)
Hmm.

John Harcar (07:47.011)
Cheers.

John Harcar (08:03.126)
Mike Bedenbaugh (08:03.284)
So I enjoy that type of problem solving and diversity. And now I’m just bringing that to real estate, to when I see a place, how do I bridge the gap between what it looks like and value? And honestly, it’s one of most fun things is to be able to go into a place, and this is as an investor type of thing. I go into a place.

John Harcar (08:20.429)
Got it.

John Harcar (08:29.347)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Bedenbaugh (08:30.934)
And I love the fact that the outside clapboard is peeling and a couple boards maybe to soften fascia is rotten looking and a little leak has put a hole in the roof a little bit because everybody looks at that is worthless. And I know I’m not even engineer but our architect but I know I can go in there and I could find 98 % of that structure is solid and it’s all image.

John Harcar (08:43.02)
Right.

John Harcar (08:46.425)
Hmm.

John Harcar (08:56.515)
Yeah. Right.

Mike Bedenbaugh (08:58.496)
So I come in and get it as cheap as possible, which is easy for the most part. If it’s not in a high growth thing, know, and plus, especially if you have an owner that has an emotional attachment to it, they hate to see it go, but they have no idea how to do it. And then you put in the amount of money to fix it up in a smart way, budget wise. And then you have a better, then your margin, your profit margin is the difference between

John Harcar (09:15.309)
Sure.

Mike Bedenbaugh (09:28.11)
pre rehab expectations and post rehab reality. And that’s your margin. I’m working on right now on a little thousand square foot house in a little town called Abbeville, South Carolina. And it was originally built in 1810 and it had been moved, but it was in terrible shape. I picked it up for 40 grand and I’m in the middle of the rehab of it now and it’s marketed to sell at

John Harcar (09:33.762)
Right.

John Harcar (09:43.676)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (09:50.961)
jeez.

Mike Bedenbaugh (09:56.344)
probably is comped in about 210,000. Yeah, so.

John Harcar (09:59.779)
Beautiful. Are you moving a lot of these properties after you fix them?

Mike Bedenbaugh (10:04.526)
You know, I those type of things. I have so many different things I’m doing. I try to keep it one at a time. I don’t do a lot at the same time because I’m statewide. My realty is with Blackstream Christie’s International, which is headquartered out of Greenville, and their commercial part is Blackstream CRE. And that’s the commercial side. So I’m all over the state because I…

John Harcar (10:20.182)
Okay.

Mike Bedenbaugh (10:31.508)
I enjoy doing things I really want to do. On the commercial side, I just have no passion toward, me help you sell a strip mall. I’m glad people out there doing it and I’ll help someone find one. But for me to seek out a project that I can help bring life to, I look for historic stuff. So I’m all over the state. And when I see an opportunity with an old house like this, I go, man, this will be great. I have to also build the systems in the town.

John Harcar (10:39.607)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Bedenbaugh (10:58.99)
who’s the contractor I can use? Who’s the suppliers? Will the bank work with me? And Abbeville was an easy one for me because I already had relationships with those people from the work I did in the town. helped save one of their oldest churches, the Spire was about to fall and we brought in grants and helped restore the Spire. So a lot of people in town already knew me from that. So I was able to have a relationship with the banker and other people to help bring resources together.

John Harcar (11:01.902)
Yeah.

John Harcar (11:22.701)
Right.

Mike Bedenbaugh (11:27.756)
to make this place work and should be finished in about a month and a half now and be on the market. Yeah.

John Harcar (11:33.727)
Okay, awesome. What are some of the challenges with this store or maybe a better question first off is, is why do you think investors don’t go for those types of deals, maybe shun away from them, not look for them? You know, what’s the stigma with historic properties for investors?

Mike Bedenbaugh (11:53.058)
Well, there’s two levels. One, just lack of knowledge about what is good versus what is bad. You know, when you see a house with no paint on it and broken windows, that veneer of the house tends to make people think the whole thing is like that. You know, if all the windows are broke out, then the foundation must be awful. And plus, it’s harder, right? I mean, in a growing economy, in South Carolina,

John Harcar (12:00.665)
Okay.

Mike Bedenbaugh (12:22.658)
We have more people moving into South Carolina per capita than any other state in the country. So it is such a huge industry in building new houses here. And like I said before, the house building industrial complex is, and Newbit is, know, the contractors, the suppliers, the bank, the food chain is all lined up to do this on new places. And

John Harcar (12:39.033)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (12:50.307)
Right.

Mike Bedenbaugh (12:51.432)
and what’s happened now and you see it here and it really breaks my heart because back in the 60s, a housing development suburb out of Columbia, they would have gone into a forest, they would have clear cut it, they would have kept it, they would have put houses up among the trees and put roads. We have several places like that in Columbia called Forest Acres, 12 Oaks, Seven Oaks development. But now everything is so industrialized and corporatized.

John Harcar (13:06.541)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (13:10.68)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (13:19.629)
Yeah.

Mike Bedenbaugh (13:21.08)
You know, just a few folks and a few companies are handling so much of this stuff. They just come in, scrape the ground flat, put in all the services, and you know, many of them build plastic. You know, you can see it. It’s a monolithic sense of aesthetics. They all look the same. Look at new buildings, and I tell you, I cannot wait for new commercial buildings to be something other than gray, brown, brick paneling.

you know, segments all around that looks like they’re in Orlando. But that’s why so many are doing that, because it’s easier to get the funding, financing, and things like that.

John Harcar (13:51.225)
good day.

John Harcar (13:55.265)
Yeah.

John Harcar (14:01.337)
Yeah, efficiency, speed, I mean, it’s turning, turning them out, right? It’s turning them out. It’s not necessarily that investing into the real true quality and the feeling like you do on a historical.

Mike Bedenbaugh (14:11.052)
That’s right. That’s right.

Mike Bedenbaugh (14:21.166)
Well, and so I totally understand why it’s driven that way. You know, we have lost something that I think is very important, the sense of localism and local abilities to do this stuff. It’s been so corporatized on a national and even global level. I went into working with a group, actually when I was still with Preservation South Carolina, and this group had bought a 160 acre farm.

John Harcar (14:26.329)
Sure.

John Harcar (14:41.325)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Bedenbaugh (14:51.092)
It had one of the oldest houses in the county on the front. Gorgeous. Oak trees, beautiful two-story house inside built in 1830. And I, and their plan was to scrape everything and erase it. And I went to them because of the local preservation group and the planning group in Greenville was wanting me to get to them and try to talk about, know, you can save it. I even helped them design their little footprint to where they can just have two lots and just put, leave the house there.

John Harcar (14:58.691)
Wow.

Mike Bedenbaugh (15:21.868)
they refused to do it. When I went inside to talk with them, there were 30 different plans all around their building for all the developments they were putting in. Quarter acre lots with septic tanks all over Greenville, making tons of money funded by Japanese funding. And so that’s what we’ve become in our development. I understand people get involved, they make lots of money at it.

John Harcar (15:43.545)
you

Mike Bedenbaugh (15:50.496)
It just doesn’t fulfill me and what I think is important. And there’s a lot of us out there on local levels doing it. And I just enjoyed the space. You know, it’s nothing better than walking in and seeing a place where, you know, it’ll be worth something. You know, at one time, Loving Intention created this place and then coming back on the other side after it’s done and seeing a family cut the ribbon. You know, old houses are usually in the local level named, you know, the Smith House.

John Harcar (15:52.985)
Sure.

John Harcar (16:08.653)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Bedenbaugh (16:18.976)
or even in several generations, they’ll call it the White Derek House, you know, from the two different families. Well, I love coming in and selling the White Derek House to where it’s now the White Derek Works House, you know, and you keep that sense of intention in place because place matters. And I just love being in that space and doing it. And if I can make a buck at it, then all the better.

John Harcar (16:19.149)
Yeah.

John Harcar (16:23.097)
You

John Harcar (16:32.825)
There you go.

John Harcar (16:38.647)
Yeah.

John Harcar (16:45.305)
Yeah, if you love what you do, you’re never working a day in your life. Are there specific things that are different? So let’s say I want to go and I have two houses, right? I have a stick built in 1978 or in 82, whatever. But I have this historic house on the other side.

Mike Bedenbaugh (16:49.134)
Yeah, that’s it.

John Harcar (17:01.887)
Are there anything specific that that someone would need to do for the historic house? Maybe within the regulations within the county, any stuff like that or with the city versus, you know, I mean, I was like, just go in and flip this 80s house.

Mike Bedenbaugh (17:15.374)
That’s it. Well, thank you for mentioning that. So here’s the thing about historic stuff. There is no national regulation that keeps anybody from doing anything on an old house. The National Register for Historic Places has no regulatory capacity over anybody. All it does is designate it, whether it’s historic. And it’s not even mandatory it be designated. The only reason a house is on the National Register is because somebody

John Harcar (17:33.881)
Okay.

Mike Bedenbaugh (17:44.696)
cared enough to spend a year filling out the paperwork, submitting it, and getting it approved. Just because a place is not on the national register does not mean it’s not important because somebody just didn’t take the time to do that. But where the regulatory comes in is rooted in local, in state, mean in county and in cities and municipalities. They set up overlays.

John Harcar (17:57.293)
Mm-hmm.

Sure.

John Harcar (18:10.115)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike Bedenbaugh (18:13.076)
And many times they utilize the National Register nomination of either a structure, but you can also have National Register districts where a whole district or a whole neighborhood will be on the National Register. And they will take that language and take that whatever expertise was done to make that, the descriptions and how important it was, and fold that over into a local

John Harcar (18:29.921)
Okay.

Mike Bedenbaugh (18:42.574)
Oversight and local codification so that okay Well, if you want to change this you need to use something called secretary of interior standards you can’t just rip off those columns on the front porch and One of the things we have here overlays you know people we when you have an old house and You think it needs big columns because that’s what an old house should look like is big columns and they rip up a beautiful 1840 one-story porch

and put giant columns on it because we call it terrorizing. When you take a house and try to make it look like terror because that’s what old houses should look like to create a false story. So those sort of things are in place but it’s only local that does it. Now here’s another element of that. And there’s incentives here where you have historic, state and federal historic tax credits.

John Harcar (19:16.857)
Right. Right.

Mike Bedenbaugh (19:40.686)
different states have different elements of this tax credits. The federal, there’s a federal historic tax credit that will give you 20 % of any of your rehab cost as a tax credit if it’s approved and if it’s done properly that developers can choose to do, right? When I was here as head of preservation in South Carolina, I worked with Nikki Haley when she was our governor and she

John Harcar (19:40.771)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (20:06.905)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Bedenbaugh (20:08.414)
while sitting there at the podium with me, she signed what took us three years to get through the state house, the abandoned buildings tax credit. Because we saw a problem with people and the public cost of development outside of tighter urbanized settings that made the cost of doing, putting in the infrastructure so much more expensive than if you tried to keep it tighter.

So we did a 25 % tax credit of trying to look back into internal inner city buildings that had been empty for more than five years. We called it abandoned, but really it’s just unused. And I was able to get into the legislation. The whole thing doesn’t have to be only 66 and a third percent. And the reason I use that is because 66 %

John Harcar (20:34.572)
Right.

John Harcar (20:50.392)
Great.

Mike Bedenbaugh (21:02.86)
would reflect in a lot of small towns, and you’ve been in them, they’ll have several, one or two, three story buildings in a little town. And there’ll be a retail space working, but the upper two floors are empty. So that was a way to try to attract the investment back to where people could put apartments up there and help attract that investment back in. And we showed through a study that for every dollar of tax credit,

John Harcar (21:11.181)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (21:15.298)
Right.

John Harcar (21:26.157)
Got it.

Mike Bedenbaugh (21:32.302)
put in place that was utilized, it created another $20 of economic output over five years in the state.

John Harcar (21:42.713)
So the benefits are there. The proof is in the pudding. What makes a house or building historic? Like, how do you classify? Like, is there certain guidelines? It’s gotta be this age, this, this, this, this.

Mike Bedenbaugh (21:44.524)
The benefits were there. That’s it.

Mike Bedenbaugh (21:55.01)
Well, the bare minimum when you think of is it eligible for the National Register, the first question is, it’s gotta be over 50 years old. Okay, that’s kind of the technical stuff of that. But really historic is in the eyes of the community, what’s important to them. When we were working, I mentioned earlier the old Gullah Cottage, that house was a little 800 square foot little shack underneath a live oak tree on the Fusky Island.

But it was historic because it was owned by Miss Frances Jones, who was a leader in that community, who helped teach all those people how to work. know, a lot of these folks were illiterate. She would help them with their taxes. She was an icon in that community. If anybody here remembers the movie Conrack, where John Voight played Pat Conroy, and teaching the Gullah children how to read on this island, it’s called Conrack. His book was called Water is Wide.

Pat Conroy replaced Francis Jones in the schoolhouse. So that was very important to that community, why that was historic. George Washington doesn’t have to sleep in a place for it to be important. It’s just in the eyes of what resonates with the community and why do they think that’s important. That’s what matters. But technically, it can’t go on the National Register until it’s at least 50 years old.

John Harcar (23:10.585)
You

John Harcar (23:25.229)
Man, this is fascinating. I’m a history buff. I love history. I mean, something like this would be incredible. Let’s say you have some investors here that do have maybe some historic properties in their town, and they are looking to maybe get into historic properties. mean, what kind of advice or what type of resources do you think you might offer up for them to be able to help in their transition or in their process?

Mike Bedenbaugh (23:50.818)
Well, look around. Here’s the thing, when using these historic tax credits, because a lot of the larger buildings, say mills, you when you have old textile mills, and a lot of people see in their communities them turned into apartments. I can guarantee that was done with historic tax credits. And there’s only a few group of developers who know how to do it. So learn the fact that people are making money at this.

John Harcar (24:00.665)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (24:04.759)
right.

Mike Bedenbaugh (24:16.248)
This has been my hardest thing to get to developers who develop normal modern buildings and want to get into this space. The first thing they say is, I don’t like government telling me what to do. I’m like, well, the government isn’t telling you what to do. You’re able to make money in a space due to the tax credits. And here’s the guidelines you can do to make that money. there tends to be a certain, especially nowadays, there tends to be more of an ideological bit.

John Harcar (24:37.773)
Mmm, yeah.

Mike Bedenbaugh (24:45.742)
to reject people telling us what to do. And especially in developers that risk millions of dollars, that is just a horrible concept for them. I understand that. But in this space, there’s too many people making money, making it successful. You need to open up and go, if they’re doing it, how can I do that? And there’s room for it, man. It’s incredible. Our abandoned…

John Harcar (25:05.419)
Yeah.

Mike Bedenbaugh (25:13.176)
building credit that we put in has been so successful in bringing back investment into these places. And the great thing is we can stack them. Okay? So a 20 % tax credit federal, 25 % state, 25 % abandoned building. So in South Carolina, in the right circumstance, 70 % of your investment into that building can be

John Harcar (25:24.601)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (25:40.48)
Wow.

Mike Bedenbaugh (25:43.072)
a tax credit. Now if it’s a $100 million project, a huge mill, $100 million project, you’re looking at tax credits that could potentially add up to $70 million. Now most folks can’t use that. I mean as rich as everybody thinks developers are, they usually don’t have that much money lying around to take a tax credit. So they sell them, right?

John Harcar (25:56.865)
million dollars. incredible.

Mike Bedenbaugh (26:10.03)
You get a huge corporation in South Carolina. One of the biggest ones is like insurance companies that have a lot of state and federal tax liability. They’ll buy those credits for 65, 68 cents on the dollar. They’re transferable. And then what do you have? You have cash equity right at the beginning that you can then get it. That’s how it works.

John Harcar (26:27.437)
Hmm. Right?

John Harcar (26:34.676)
Hell yeah.

Mike Bedenbaugh (26:37.698)
And I love sharing this with folks and it’s an amazing thing and it’s developed so much. If you have an historic downtown with a lot of apartments and old mills, I guarantee you they use the tax credits to do it.

John Harcar (26:38.083)
That’s incredible.

John Harcar (26:52.729)
This is fascinating and I can tell you’re passionate to it. If folks want to get in touch with you, if folks want to reach out talk to you about historic properties or older properties and the best way to get those tax credits or talk about how do they reach out to How do they find you?

Mike Bedenbaugh (27:10.138)
well I have my webpage MikeBeatenball.com and I can be reached at Mike at MikeBeatenball.com and I guess we can put something in the comments or something about…

John Harcar (27:19.583)
Yeah, yeah, I’ll put everything in the show notes. All your contact information. Yeah, definitely. And thank you for coming on. And yeah, I appreciate you coming on and talking about this because, you know, Historic Homes is something that is not talked about a lot.

Mike Bedenbaugh (27:23.096)
Thank you. I appreciate that.

John Harcar (27:34.265)
You taught me a whole bunch that I didn’t know. I like those tax credits. That’s what I would be into. But guys, I hope you enjoyed the show. I hope you guys found some value. I hope you pulled some nuggets out of there. Michael, thank you again for coming on and sharing that with us. And guys, I hope you had a great show, and I’ll see you on the next one. Cheers.

Mike Bedenbaugh (27:53.742)
Thank you, John. Take care.