How to Navigate Probate Real Estate Deals: Expert Tips

Bruce Hill (00:00)
So my biggest thing for any of you guys that are getting into inheritance is make sure that you have your typically letters testamentary. Every state calls it something different. It’s essentially just your approval from the court that that family can proceed with anything that they need to sell.

Dylan Silver (01:50)
Hey, folks, welcome back to the show. Today’s guest is based out of Raleigh, North Carolina and consults investors nationally on probate deals. Please welcome Bruce Hill. Bruce, welcome to the show.

Bruce Hill (02:05)
Dylan, man, I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.

Dylan Silver (02:08)
It’s great to have you. I’m talking to the

guy, the probate guy. We were talking about this before the show and I said, you know, do people come to you for other verticals and, you know, to your credit, you said, you know, it’s best to really focus in on one thing and I couldn’t agree more with you as someone who has at times struggled with shiny object syndrome. How did you decide to become the probate guy?

Bruce Hill (02:30)
man, it ⁓ was kind of thrust

me and I didn’t like it. I had a coach several years ago that was outside of the real estate industry and we would show up and every week we were talking about something new and one week I’d talk about foreclosures and another week I’d talk about marketing in my sphere of influence as an agent. Another week I’d talk about flipping houses and probate and just all these different things and he was like, dude,

I can’t keep up, I don’t know what you’re doing, your audience has got to be insanely confused. And repetitively over and over the theme that kept coming up was probate. So I decided to just go ahead and embrace the typecast, just like an actor can get typecast, I just embraced it. I like talking about other business, but you know what? There’s not a lot of real experts in the probate or the inherited property space, so.

I decided to learn everything that I could about the process, marketing, prospecting, building a pipeline, closing the deals. So that’s where I got into Probate.

Dylan Silver (03:35)
I think it’s sorely needed. mean, we have an aging population firstly. So there’s a lot of people who are going to have to deal with this. It’s just a reality. And then also this creates a need for investors to be able to tackle these types of deals. But they’re thorny. They’re very tricky. And you have to bring people together and then you have to understand probate law. And then on top of that, you have to be able to interface with title companies. And then you have to understand the paperwork and then you have to understand, well,

who really has the right to this property and who doesn’t. And so when an investor comes to you, ⁓ how often are they coming to you with a deal versus how often are they coming to you with, I just want to get started or is a mix of both.

Bruce Hill (04:19)
It’s a mix of both. Most of the time I catch the investor who wants to get started. So I catch a lot of really early investors that are like, don’t have two nickels to rub together, I’m gonna wholesale. And then I try to graduate them, no shade on my wholesaler friends, but I try to graduate them into the point where they’re putting more sophisticated deals together, they’re flipping themselves, they’re raising capital. But then of course,

Now they go out and they get the deals. They do the things I’ve taught them to market and prospect. And they go out and get the deal and then they show up and they’re like, look at this thorny deal. There’s 22 people involved in this. How do I close it? So

we end up kind of graduating people into the deal structure, but it doesn’t start that way.

Dylan Silver (05:53)
I think it can be overwhelming for people who are just starting. You mentioned wholesale. That’s how I got started. And I’m still passionate about wholesale, although as a realtor, it becomes trickier. anyone who’s a realtor who is studying to get their real estate license can understand that. Short story. So I was in real estate school at Champion School in Fort Worth. And when they were asking about investors, someone had brought up wholesalers, I realized it wasn’t the greatest thing to be a

Bruce Hill (06:01)
Mm-hmm.

Dylan Silver (06:22)
wholesaler in a room full of realtors and aspiring realtors. It was almost like a dirty word, I dare say. And so I realized at that moment in time, like, whoa, this is a totally different world, but it does meet a need, which is people who are facing distress, whether it be, you know, financial, emotional death in the family, so on and so forth. The list just goes on. So many probate deals, though, are are super tricky and you don’t even realize

Bruce Hill (06:36)
Yeah.

Dylan Silver (06:52)
until you, it’s almost like doing a fix and flip. You take up the subfloor and you realize there’s a problem with the foundation. That’s like every probate deal. So when people are just starting out, know, maybe without giving away all the gold, because I know that this is your business, but what’s something that people who are just starting out with a probate deal should really look for to make sure that, hey, this is the starting point, like block A.

Bruce Hill (07:18)
absolutely. So there’s a couple of things. So I’m gonna actually take a couple of steps back from what they should look for on block A and go to some negative things that they should look for. Not bad, but I’m gonna work it backwards. So number one is I want people that are considering probate and inherited property deals to recognize that they don’t all have thorns on them. There’s plenty that don’t have thorns. ⁓

plenty that do, but plenty that don’t. So it’s not that scary. Number two is the average family that’s going through probate, 67 % if I’m being kind of exact, and I know it changes from year to year, but about 67 % have no mortgage. It doesn’t mean that there’s not an investment opportunity. What it means is when you call and you say, hey, I see Joe Blow died, do you wanna sell the house? And they go,

What are you talking about? That’s not a bad thing. They’re dealing with other parts of the process. And this is the thing. The other parts of the process are what you as an investor, you as a real estate agent need to know about. We often call on pre-probate or obituaries or even probate filings that haven’t been approved by the court yet. And we rush in and the person says maybe they’re one of the 15 % that have a mortgage

and have no money in the bank and they can’t afford the house, they’ve got to go right now. And we rush in and we sign the listing or we sign a contract to buy the house or we sign a contract with a wholesale addendum. And then we get to closing and we find out they can’t close. Why? They haven’t been approved by the court yet. Maybe there’s a dispute. Maybe there was no will and one of the family members said, I got my payday, I’m going to go apply for probate.

And another family member pops up three weeks later and goes, wait a minute, I’m an heir too. I want to be the executor. And so there will be family

So my biggest thing for any of you guys that are getting into inheritance is make sure that you have your typically letters testamentary. Every state calls it something different. It’s essentially just your approval from the court that that family can proceed with anything that they need to sell.

So make sure that that happens. Otherwise, you’re gonna find yourself in a long drawn out thing with family disputes and different things. And that could be anywhere from two weeks to two months after the court application takes place.

Dylan Silver (09:55)
Now, I’m familiar with probate taking

very long period of time. And Texas, don’t think is the most difficult state for this, but generally speaking, is there a timeline for probate? Because it is dependent on people, is it more of an open-ended process?

Bruce Hill (10:47)
It’s open-ended, but we have averages. and this is really dependent on the state. My state, North Carolina, average is about 15 months from start to finish. That’s a long time, long time. California, probably 15 months. Texas, probably 10 months. So every state’s gonna be a little different. The averages that I want you to know are the average time it takes the average family to sell the house. Now they do not need huge misnomer.

I’ve run into really professional, should know better agents and investors and coaches, by the way, who say, why do you list that house? Why do you buy that house? You’re not allowed to, they have to wait for probate to end. Absolutely false. 99 % of the time, the family not only can, but they should, especially if the house needs to be sold, they should sell early in probate. Doesn’t mean that they will.

Dylan Silver (11:29)
Hmm.

Bruce Hill (11:41)
Most families take six to eight months before they start making decisions around real estate. Should they take that long? No. Do they? Yes. They’re dealing with other things, including grief, including who’s going to cut the grass, including fighting over personal property, including the court system. So they take a little while, but, and then the thing that the family needs to know, and a lot of times they don’t, is I sold the house, I sold the car, I sold the

antiques, why can’t I put that money in my pocket? So this is where agents and investors mess up is they think that the house can’t sell until probate closes 12 or 15 months later. They can. They just can’t pocket the money. It has to stay with the estate until probate closes.

Dylan Silver (12:30)
So the benefits are, and I’m just thinking out loud here, the benefits are you get to effectively sell the property in what may be an advantageous market to you versus 15 months from now, if it is a good market. But then also you get to deal with this issue now versus at the end of the probate. If people are on the same page, it’s good to kind of do it while everyone’s on the same page. What are some other benefits of kind of doing it now for the family?

dealing with this, right? The sellers versus waiting until all of probate is completely done.

Bruce Hill (13:02)
Well, there’s obviously taxes that are stacking up. Let’s say they have no mortgage. They’ve got tax bills. They have insurance. They’ve got an empty house, theoretically an empty house. ⁓ The empty house is just going to lose value over time, even in an appreciating market because empty houses don’t hold up. ⁓ They don’t have they sell now. They don’t have to cut the grass every week. They don’t have to winterize it in a cold weather market. They don’t have to keep paying the utilities.

Dylan Silver (13:07)
Yeah.

Bruce Hill (13:31)
It just, just get it done. The reason that they don’t get it done is because they don’t know when or how. They’re, they don’t know what they don’t know. So you as ⁓ an expert or a specialist in probate ⁓ know how to advise them and guide them through the selling process when they know that they will sell, they just don’t know when or how. And because of that, they just stick their head in the sand. So we step in and kind of help them make those decisions.

They’re not always ready to hear that advice from someone that they don’t know very well in the beginning. So if I’m having a conversation with that family, I’m not going in going, what do you mean you’re not ready to sell? That’s stupid, you need to sell. That’s just gonna piss them off and I’m never gonna get the relationship. So you have to be willing to help and kind of allow them to sit in their delusion for a few conversations before you really start pushing.

Dylan Silver (14:13)
Yeah.

Bruce Hill (14:28)
and to the real estate part of the relationship.

Dylan Silver (14:31)
I want to pivot a bit here, Bruce, and ask you kind of about the flip side. I don’t know how often people ask you this, but because you’re a probate guy, you’re involved in this space, is there an opportunity for folks who may be service providers in this space? I’m talking about attorneys and maybe real estate professionals who may deal with these kinds of issues to kind of facilitate this process before it needs to go to a probate court. Like for instance, when people…

may be dealing with ⁓ someone who’s elderly and dealing with medical issues or before it gets to that point in time, is there an industry around, let’s everyone get on the same page here. That way it’s not a loose end when unfortunately someone elderly passes away.

Bruce Hill (15:58)
Yep. It’s huge industry. ⁓ So I’m going to back into that part of it. First thing

I want to know if I’m doing the probate side of it after a loss and I’m stepping in to help a family, I’m helping them coordinate their lawn care. I’m helping them coordinate the clean out. I’m helping them connect to an attorney if they don’t have one. I’m helping them do an estate sale. I’m helping with the entire process or at least I’m offering. And because of that, I have to have

all those connections in my business. Now, I used to just drive over with a lawnmower in the back of my car and cut the grass for them. That’s silly. Now I just have all the vendors and all the know-how. The thing is, the entire business model that I teach and that I practice on the probate side perfectly applies to estate planning. So probate is a state administration. You’re administering in a state where someone’s passed away. Estate planning is

someone’s living, they might be elderly or young, and they’re setting up their entire plan. So the services are identical. I prefer to get the estate planning client because that’s a future client of mine. That’s a future client. It may not be six months from now, but at some point I’ve helped them coordinate the entire thing. So if I can get the estate planning client and talk to someone saying my sphere of influence is an agent term.

Dylan Silver (17:12)
Yeah.

Bruce Hill (17:25)
⁓ and really build that relationship, I can take them to the attorney. Now the attorney loves me. What do you think the attorney is gonna do the next time they’re administering an estate through probate? They’re gonna think of me

Dylan Silver (17:37)
Reach out.

Bruce Hill (17:38)
I’m connecting them. I’m doing the same thing with ⁓ senior living. I’m doing the same thing with senior moving. I’m doing the same thing with all my vendors just for someone before there’s a loss in the family.

Dylan Silver (17:52)
You know, I think here and about you talk about the estate planning versus probate administration. It really, this is what came to my mind and forgive me for dumbing this down a little bit here. And maybe that may be the wrong word, but it’s serious business. mean, people’s lives and their estate, everything that they have ⁓ and their memories, right? And so it’s definitely something that people have to handle with care.

You mentioned that not every deal is thorny, but there’s certainly your fair share of that. I want to ask you about what the type of person who is successful in let’s say probate versus foreclosure, pre foreclosure, or someone who may be looking at land deals. Do you think there is a certain kind of avatar or psyche of someone who does well in the probate and estate planning space? Or is it just, hey, you have to learn this skill and it’s applicable in…

Bruce Hill (18:24)
Yeah.

Dylan Silver (18:48)
multiple different verticals.

Bruce Hill (18:51)
Well, you have to unlearn certain things. ⁓ If you’re accustomed to land deals or expireds or for sale by owners or foreclosures or you name it, a lot of times you’re going for the jugular and you’ve developed the skill of being able to

for the jugular. When you call someone in probate, that’s a great way to get cussed out. Now, maybe you have thick skin, but if I don’t have to get cussed out, I’m not going to get cussed out.

Why? Because my approach is built on establishing a credibility and value first. And from that point forward, they’re in my pipeline. And I am willing to and able to nurture that person for the six to eight months that it takes the average family. I call someone on a land deal, are you interested in selling your land? I call someone in foreclosure, you need to act right now. I call someone in probate.

they may not need to act right now. So you really need to develop the soft skills of building rapport and ⁓ providing lots of value before pushing into a closing situation. And those are the people that do the best. If they’re building a pipeline for six months from now, they’re gonna kill everybody else that’s going for a deal today.

Dylan Silver (20:13)
I want to ask you and maybe somewhat selfishly, I’m a realtor ⁓ and I think that there’s oftentimes a limitation on having a real estate license when I want to do creative deals. But I think that in the case of probate, it’s at least on surface, correct me if I’m wrong, advantageous in a lot of ways, because if someone wants to list the home versus do a more creative deal versus, you know, I can wholesale the deal to an investor, so on and so forth, they did want to sell quickly for cash.

It seems to be advantageous in probate specifically to be a realtor. Am I wrong in that assessment?

Bruce Hill (20:48)
do think it’s very advantageous to have a license and have that option. ⁓ I came in to probate as a realtor, not as an investor. And I found out that it was for realtors, it was also very advantageous to be able to structure a creative deal or ⁓ a cash deal. So I’ve had clients that I tried to talk into listing because I thought it was better for them financially and they said, no, I’m done.

Dylan Silver (21:17)
We don’t want to deal with that.

Bruce Hill (21:17)
I want

out of this deal, you make me an offer and you don’t understand. I’m gonna make you 100,000 more if I list the house. I don’t care, make me an offer. So I’ve had those, but there are a lot of folks on the flip side. This home holds a lot of memories and ⁓ we don’t wanna quote unquote give it away. I think we’re all sick of.

Dylan Silver (21:34)
Yeah.

Bruce Hill (21:40)
hearing that objection, but we don’t want to. So I end up listing those and depending on the market that you’re in and how new the growth is, it may be 50-50, it may be 80-20. I have some friends in the different Texas markets that are 50 % wholesale or cash. They’ll do an investment deal 50 % of the time and list 50 % of the time. I’m more like 80 % list, 20 % investor based on…

the newness, the new growth of my market. So most people are wanting a little higher price in my market.

Dylan Silver (22:16)
Bruce, we are coming up on time here. ⁓ Where can folks go if they’d like to maybe learn more about probate? Maybe they have a deal of their own they’d like your feedback on. ⁓ Or if they maybe have a regional question and are stuck at a point in the process, where can they go to reach out to you?

Bruce Hill (22:35)
So the best place to go is probatemastery.com. So www.probatemastery.com. If anyone wants to ask those questions, right up at the top of the homepage, there’s a weekly coaching call that we do for free every Tuesdays. You can join, ask your questions, run your scenarios by. ⁓ We’re always live there. There’s also up at the top of the homepage, probatemastery.com, there’s a short mini training called closed.

two probate deals every month. That’s the baseline for anyone that goes through. You’ve gotta learn how to work the math to get your two deals a month. And I don’t care if you’re an investor, a realtor, a wholesaler, I don’t care. You can get two deals a month with a minimal number of leads. And that’s up at the top of the homepage.

Dylan Silver (23:23)
Bruce, thank you for coming on the show here today.

Bruce Hill (23:25)
Dylan, really appreciate it. Thanks so much.