How Landlords Can Protect Their Rentals from New Tenant Laws with Alex Yoder

Alex Yoder (00:00)
Well, I would say first of all, this might be super obvious, but g get involved in any capacity that you can. There’s there’s some very good organizations that help to sort of broadcast and and fuel ⁓ some of these things. So you might have a really good idea, but if you don’t have a team of people helping you do it, it’s not gonna go anywhere. And so join NARPAM. You know, you can join NARPAM as a property manager.

If you are a landlord or a self-managing ⁓ owner, there are plenty of organizations. I know in Colorado we have iCorps of the Rockies and some other organizations that are specific to nonprofits or sorry, specific to investment groups. And so I would first of all show up. ⁓ second of all start having conversations.

Scott Bursey (02:17)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros podcast powered by Investor Fuel. I’m your host, Scott Bursey And today we’re burning high octane fuel. We have Alex Yoder from Dorman Real Estate Management in the house. Alex is currently steering a massive operation with over 1,300 doors. But what really excites me is he’s doing it while fighting for the backbone of our industry, property rights. If you’re looking to scale your management game,

And protect your assets from regulatory headwinds, you’re in the right place. Let’s get into it. Alex, welcome to the show.

Alex Yoder (02:52)
Thank you, Scott. Appreciate it.

Scott Bursey (02:53)
It’s just wonderful having you here and to help our listeners get up to speed. Please give us a front row seat and how your career ignited and where you’re pouring your fuel now.

Alex Yoder (03:04)
Yeah, so I started in property management about twenty-two years ago. And I’m we’re based out of Colorado Springs here in Colorado. And I originally got into it as a very young married man with a very young child and I needed a consistent paycheck. And so I went and got my real estate license healing here in Colorado and that kind of spun ⁓ the craziness up. So

Scott Bursey (03:26)
Okay. Well, thank you for that. Even you know what really caught my attention about you, Alex, was the way you’ve been able to scale Dorman real estate management to over thirteen hundred doors while stepping up as a a champion for property rights and taking a hard stand against imbalanced landlord tenant regulations. That’s not easy.

Alex Yoder (03:47)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I I got a I I got a passion for that accidentally. You know, I I was asked to testify on a bill several years ago and it was a squatter related bill here in Colorado. And the anticipation was that that bill was going into a kill committee. And so we expected the bill to actually die. It was a bill that was intending to protect landlords from squatters and to expedite the eviction process here in Colorado if there was a legitimate squatter in a property.

And we testified on the bill. It was me and a couple others. And we ended up getting the bill passed in spite of it going into a kill committee. And so I got hooked in a way. You know, I wouldn’t say that I enjoy politics particularly, but I enjoy the impact and the difference that it can make in showing up. And it’s difficult now not to show up because of that. So that’s that’s kind of how I got drawn into things.

Scott Bursey (04:40)
Well, I appreciate you elaborating on that. And we’re all about tracking high performance habits here and to keep that momentum building. Let’s look at the foundation of your business. You know, with 1300 doors, your operational scale is is huge. What’s the recipe you use to have consistently qualified ⁓ operation systems, if you will?

Alex Yoder (05:03)
Well, when I first started here, my now my now business partner had a portfolio of two to three hundred doors at the time. He had acquired a local mom and pop shop out here in Colorado Springs. And we’ve just kind of grown it ever since. And I really feel like the recipe is ⁓ several factors. You know, first of all, we really try to lead well. You know, we care about our people and we care about sort of doing what’s right for our clients at the same time. And

In addition to that, you know, beyond the sort of platitude of that, there’s a lot of processes and and nerdy systems behind the scenes that keep us sort of going in a way that’s consistent. I had mentioned to you earlier, Scott, that consistency is where it’s at. And we really try to work on the business and have always tried to work on the business on at least a weekly basis, but ideally a daily basis, in in even tiny ways. And so I feel like

I think some companies talk about, you know, here’s our here’s our magic or here’s our secret sauce. But ⁓ I have no problem sharing any of that stuff, not only because I like helping people, but also because the reality is that the magic is in the tiny little microscopic decisions and communications and conversations and in in a on a daily basis in the operation. And I think that’s really where we we tend to shine. So

Scott Bursey (06:18)
I love that distinction, you know, scaling and consistency. It that’s huge. It’s not just about size. You know, if the process is tight, the doors take care of themselves.

Alex Yoder (07:16)
Yeah. And we’ve we’ve also always, you know, I I recognize at the end of the day, nobody is doing this kind of I refer to it as brain damage. Nobody’s engaging in the brain damage of property management ⁓ for free. But, you know, just making money has never been our guiding light. we really care about what we’re doing. We we want to be the best at it and we want to be champions for our industry.

you know, not just for clients, but also for our peers. ⁓ we have a lot of good friends in the industry and we love sort of showing up for them as well. So

Scott Bursey (07:50)
And your passion is very transparent. It resonates. And I appreciate you highlighting that. Now let’s shift gears just just a little bit, Alex. Every pro has a blind spot. What’s an area in your current operation that you’re looking to reinforce or optimize to keep that momentum from stalling?

Alex Yoder (08:11)
You know, one thing that we’ve realized and I we’re always thinking about the way that we’re growing and what that what the implications of that mean, right? When we were at three hundred doors, things like HR and you know, stuff like that, we didn’t even think about it really, because you can’t afford to pay an HR person, right? And so as we grow, you know, the first time we got to five hundred doors, we have never managed five hundred doors. We don’t know e exactly how to manage five hundred doors when we were there. So you’re learning constantly.

And so that’s that’s been interesting and fun, but challenging for sure. So so I would say if we’re if if we’re talking about blind spots, one thing that we’ve really been trying to double down on in consideration of blind spots is, you know, if I’m if I’m out sick tomorrow and you know, hopefully nothing happens to me, but if I get something serious and I have to be out of the business, how does how do things run? And we try to think at think about that.

Not only for me, but my business partner and any any other member of our team. So we really have been trying to build in redundancies. ⁓ I would say blind spots previously would be things like having a really good brain dump and flow for every position. So if our main accountant is out tomorrow, we can still continue operating in a way that doesn’t affect the client. So yeah, I think that would probably be the biggest one that we’ve really been trying to tackle.

And we we we’ve built out an intranet in our office so that we can sort of easily access all the information as a team and have a little bit more continuity. ⁓ so yeah.

Scott Bursey (09:39)
Alex, honestly, it takes a lot of fortitude to own those internal challenges. And that’s exactly where the pros find their edge.

Alex Yoder (09:47)
Yeah. Yeah, we’re never gonna be you know, we always try to say we’re we take what we do very seriously, but we never take ourselves too seriously. ⁓ you know, humility, what what are we what are we lacking at? ⁓ how can we listen to each other? How can we disagree well? ⁓ and navigate the, you know, the challenges of being a human. So

Scott Bursey (10:06)
It’s really about effective communication.

Alex Yoder (10:09)
Yeah. And that’s been huge for us too. We we ⁓ there’s a couple really good books on the topic, but one that I’d like to highlight ⁓ it basically talks about ⁓ well it’s called Radical Candor. I don’t know if you’ve read that, but there’s a couple books that are similar to it in various ways. But radical candor in particular talks a lot about how do we how to be how do we be completely

Clear and transparent with each other. So we’re not hurting the operation because we’re so afraid of hurting people’s feelings while also extending respect and empathy and actually caring. And so, you know, the biggest line of that book I think about all the time is challenge directly, but care personally. ⁓ and so that’s that’s been huge for us, you know. If you’re so afraid of having those conversations, you can’t really build and grow.

And if people are so afraid of coming to you also as the leader with those conversations, same thing happens. You end up sort of ⁓ blocking your own growth out without realizing it. And so we just double down with that on our we we talk about that every other day with our staff. Okay, you’re dealing with this issue because so and so is not checking the right box. Did you talk to them? You know, a little bit of it ⁓ peer-to-peer accountability without the boss always having to fix everything. ⁓ so those are some of the

sort of nuances in the way that we’ve positioned our culture to try our best to navigate some of those things. So

Scott Bursey (11:30)
That’s exactly the type of spark that starts a fire right there. That was ⁓ an awesome breakdown. Now you’re a champion of property rights. Where do you see the biggest opportunity for you know operators to influence positive ⁓ policy?

Alex Yoder (12:21)
Well, stop me if I talk too much because there’s a lot there’s a lot in that. ⁓ so here in Colorado, we noticed basically the way that things were starting to look legislatively and sort of from a balance standpoint as various bills and postures about affordable housing and this kind of stuff were starting to come up. And that started to kind of spin up in, you know, 2018, 2019. We could feel the pressure.

As a as industry experts. And so what we did here in Colorado is that we spun up an organization that’s a nonprofit called the Colorado Housing Coalition. And that organization effectively has its own lobbyist and supports small operators, but generally speaking, single-family operators here in the state. And what we noticed, and I had mentioned that I had ⁓ testified on that bill.

What we had noticed when we were testifying on some of those bills early on before we had a formal formal organization is that bill sponsors would come to us afterwards and say, Hey, who do you have a lobbyist? Do you have a central point of contact? You know, because they, if you think about it from their point of view, they can’t talk to 500 different people with various opinions that manage single and manage your own single family homes. They need a single point of contact. And so that’s where a lobbyist really functions well.

And I know lobbyists can get a bad name sometimes, but having someone that is a point of contact for that central voice has been pivotal. So yeah, so we we got a a bunch of management companies, and ⁓ there’s an organization out here called NARPAM, which is the National Association of Residential Property Managers. All of the chapters in the state contribute towards the CHC to s help us fund our lobbyist. And so now, what six years later, we are

the voice for single family managers and and owners here in the state. We are at the table on on stakeholding on almost every single major bill. We have been successful in amending as as an example, last year, well last year and this year, we were successful in amending andor killing almost every bill that was brought forward. Now it it was a lot more amending than than it was killing, you know, because we are

You know, we are considerate of balance. You know, if you are just anti any bill that affects me, you’re not going to be included at the table anymore, right? And if you’re not at the table, you’re on the menu. So we really try to be diplomatic about the way we navigate it, but in a way that is ⁓ sort of non-compromising on certain points, but friendly and cooperative on others. So, you know, if they start talking about rent control, we will never be in a men position for those things, you know.

whereas if we’re talking about the nuances of various fees or whatever it may be, you know, let’s talk what’s fair, what’s reasonable to the public, this kind of stuff. So anyway, long story short, we we spun it up with a lobbyist. We have a board. ⁓ that organization has expanded. There’s a whole lobbyist liaison committee, j mostly of s of property managers, but there are also some small operators involved in that. ⁓ and we do our best to sort of continue showing up. So

Scott Bursey (15:24)
Alex, ⁓ curious to keep that vision clear, how do you anticipate ⁓ obstacles that aren’t on the map yet?

Alex Yoder (15:32)
⁓ Well, ⁓ get a really good lobbyist. And what I mean by that is there may be points of debate in various caucuses that are becoming hot buttons. And even if there is no bill, there is no formal conversation about a bill being drafted. When you have a good lobbyist, he can say, Hey, I can we can smell this coming. You know what I mean? And so that’s a big piece of it.

And then, but at the end of the day, even if you don’t quote unquote smell it coming, ⁓ if you are well positioned at the table, in many cases you will be previewed to the bill before it even gets officially dropped. So now a lot of the stakeholding happens after the bill drops, but sometimes you can be at the table before it even drops to help make sure that it’s reasonable and fair and considers all parties involved. So

Scott Bursey (16:21)
You must have the ability to sniff it out.

Alex Yoder (17:05)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think that that is extremely valuable. And and the other thing is that we are building relationships, you know, with people on both sides of the table. At the end of the day, the CHC is not a partisan group. We are just here to protect and defend mom and pop landlords. You know, our company manages 1300 doors, as you mentioned, and about 78% of those own of those of our owners own one single family home. So it’s there there’s a lot of people out there and I I

Based on what I’ve pulled, around forty percent of the market, the rental market, is owned by ⁓ small operators like that.

Scott Bursey (17:38)
Alex, in this environment, what’s the biggest threat to an independent landlord right now?

Alex Yoder (17:43)
Well, I think the biggest challenge, and I know that it obviously depends on your your local region and your state. But the the challenge is that a lot of this legislation is coming for you if it isn’t already there. That’s I don’t mean to be too negative, but I’m also a realist and I think we have to be prepared and and ready for the some of those things. If you were in a market, you know, I I I just talked to a good friend of mine out of Texas, for example, and

you know, if you’re in a market where those things are starting to look like they are coming your way, you and what I mean by you is generally property management companies. And I say that because the property management companies, they are already doing it. They are already being paid to show up and they know things. Right. You know, if I’m being t questioned at a panel, I I can speak intelligently about the dynamics of, you know, what specifically they’re asking about. And so

In my opinion, property managers have to be the champions for small mom and pop landlords in their states. And, you know, if anybody listening to listening to this is interested in spinning up a you know housing coalition nonprofit, please feel free to reach out to me. You know, we’d be happy to share some of the playbook and some of the things that we’ve learned the hard way. You know, for example, we had to reposition our nonprofit a couple years ago and some things that we yeah, if we had known that, we would have done a different.

differently from the beginning type stuff. So I would just invite anybody listening to this to reach out to me if you are looking to start up some kind of an organization where you can show up for landlords in your state if you already don’t already have that in place.

Scott Bursey (19:16)
Thank you. Thank you for that. ⁓ that was an excellent illustration. A great blueprint, if you will. Alex, you’re managing the operations while shaping the industry’s future. If you had to drop one piece of high octane advice for an operator looking to pivot from just managing doors to truly influencing the landscape, what would that advice be?

Alex Yoder (19:37)
Well, I would say first of all, this might be super obvious, but g get involved in any capacity that you can. There’s there’s some very good organizations that help to sort of broadcast and and fuel ⁓ some of these things. So you might have a really good idea, but if you don’t have a team of people helping you do it, it’s not gonna go anywhere. And so join NARPAM. You know, you can join NARPAM as a property manager.

If you are a landlord or a self-managing ⁓ owner, there are plenty of organizations. I know in Colorado we have iCorps of the Rockies and some other organizations that are specific to nonprofits or sorry, specific to investment groups. And so I would first of all show up. ⁓ second of all start having conversations.

And you know, I wouldn’t say be so ambitious that you’re gonna bury yourself, but be ambitious enough to where you can ⁓ partner with some other smart people and and sort of get some things going. ⁓

I do think that that is a huge threat. You know, it that’s what we’ve seen. We’ve seen 40 plus bills passed since 2018 here in Colorado that affect the way that we do our business every day. And, you know, I feel like a unofficial in-house counsel most days. You know, my you know, I’m not an attorney, so let me be clear. Anything I say is not legal advice. But when my team comes to me, you know, every 10 minutes saying, How do I deal with this or how do I deal with that, or what was the what was the rule on this?

And so I think that’s a big challenge for management companies. If you are not hyper educated, ⁓ particularly as you grow, you will either become the in-house guy for that, guy or gal for that, or you will need to hire somebody to be the in-house guy guy or gal for that. So be aware of that. And then for self-managing owners, you know, I I don’t want to sign sound too biased. You can still self-manage in some cases successfully.

But the odds of you doing it in a way that’s even remotely compliant in states like Colorado are very, very, very slim. You know, I do this every day, I do this all day. I, you know, we apply ourselves very actively, and even we struggle to figure it out half the time. So I would just recommend that if you are not prepared to invest the time to really protect yourself by setting things up correctly and doing things correctly, that you should truly and really consider hiring somebody that that does.

Scott Bursey (21:56)
Alex, that was some serious fuel for our pros. And curious, some final thoughts from you. If our listeners are thinking, hey, this is somebody that I like to learn from, what would you like them to know first about your business?

Alex Yoder (22:12)
Well, our company is called Dorman Real Estate Management. We are based out of Colorado Springs. We do have a separate ⁓ sister company or two sister companies actually, that one that does commercial management, one that does HOA management. But I run our residential division. If you go to dormanrealestate.com you can find all about us and find my email and pull anything up you want to contact us or reach out to us. I also do YouTube videos. ⁓ it’s c we call it I call it Pro Tip Tuesday.

So every Tuesday I I deliver some kind of information. Usually it’s legislation related, but sometimes it’s just, you know, how do how do I handle pets in properties? Or how do I set up utilities on a fourplex? Or, you know, that kind of stuff. So we try to provide consistent education generally every week via YouTube videos. I also run one of the largest landlord groups here in Colorado, which is called the Colorado Springs Landlord Forum on Facebook. And now even if you’re not in Colorado Springs, if you are

in the state or you just want to see what our state is doing, it would be a really good idea to consider joining the Colorado Springs Landlord Forum on Facebook because that’s going to be a very good way, particularly for you self-managing owners, to stay involved and connected on what’s happening. I do a post-legislation wrap-up of all the bills that passed with a summary of all the bills that passed. I do videos specific to each bill on the big things that you need to be aware of. ⁓ we just try to deliver education for people and and to help people and and

Yeah, we obviously we we love getting referrals and we love building our company. And if you need a management company, we’d love to have you call us. But also if you don’t, we also like just helping you. We like helping you to set things up well and to know what attorneys to call and all this kind of stuff. So

Scott Bursey (23:48)
Alex, you’ve been very helpful. This has been very educational and quite frankly, it’s been pure investor fuel. Thank you for joining us today.

Alex Yoder (23:58)
Thank you, Scott. Appreciate it.

Scott Bursey (23:59)
And to our listeners, we appreciate you. If you got value from today’s episode, please subscribe. We’ll be filling your tanks with elite guests of a like Alex Yoder, who are accelerating and setting the pace for the rest of the industry. Until next time, keep your standards high and your vision clear. We’ll see you in the next episode, everyone.