How Banking Knowledge Helps Real Estate Developers Build Bigger, More Profitable Projects

Rogan O’Donnell (00:00)
Thanks for having me on, Freddie. I really appreciate it. the legacy of my dad, just for clarity, is that my father was a professional banker. And he gave me the insight on no banking, no money. If you can learn about the money, then you can learn anything because you’re gonna need money to grow a business. Wow. Kind of simple. So so for all of our listeners, right? we we don’t— we don’t get educated on how to do banking when we’re in high school and college. Nobody teaches us about mortgage rates, nobody teaches us about loans, acquisitions, sales,

Freddie Steen (02:13)
Welcome to the Real Estate Pros Investor Fuel Podcast. I’m your host, Freddie, and today I’m joined by someone I’ve been looking forward to chatting with: Rogan O’Donnell, who’s been making serious moves as a real estate developer. And Rogan, I’m glad to have you here, but I think our listeners— I know our listeners— are really going to take something away from how you’re approaching real estate land development, how you’re also approaching capital raising, and the ability to combine these things in a way that you’re also very entrenched in helping the community. So let’s dive in. So first off, for people who may not be familiar with your world, give us the short version. You’re a real estate legacy because of your father, but what’s your main focus these days? And what markets are you operating in?

Rogan O’Donnell (03:05)
Thanks for having me on, Freddie. I really appreciate it. the legacy of my dad, just for clarity, is that my father was a professional banker. And he gave me the insight on no banking, no money. If you can learn about the money, then you can learn anything because you’re gonna need money to grow a business. Wow. Kind of simple. So so for all of our listeners, right? we we don’t— we don’t get educated on how to do banking when we’re in high school and college. Nobody teaches us about mortgage rates, nobody teaches us about loans, acquisitions, sales, and and and all the fundamental we’ll call it vocabulary necessary to be able to perform at a high level when you start getting into real estate acquisitions. So if I came at you and I’m— I’m a developer as true— as true, I— I do everything from a fix-me-upper to major subdivision, minor subdivisions to multifamily units, condominiums, townhouses, all the way up to raw land, approving that, building that out, naming the street, moving on, and then and then into the commercial side, which when you get into the commercial side, again, we’re speaking to the steel on steel of real estate investors, they’ll— they’ll— they’ll sit here right off the bat and go, “Why are you going and doing all that residential real estate? You’ll pay all those taxes. You got to go to the commercial side where you can start really working your money.” And there’s real magic to be worked there when it comes with the money and and real estate. And and that’s what some of the stuff that I got, we’ll call it an advanced degree in because of my father’s banking skills, which was, “Okay, you built a handful of houses. This was great. You paid it back. You made— you made some bucks. You should really start looking at commercial side because there, understanding banking and money and real estate, you can actually have a living.”

Freddie Steen (05:08)
So I would call you a true developer. Rogan, let me ask, what markets are you operating in?

Rogan O’Donnell (05:15)
Currently, right now I have projects in New Jersey and I have projects up here in Maine. And when I say projects, so I have currently thirty-five raw acres here in Maine that me and a team are looking at in— we have a housing shortage just like a lot of places do in America. and we’re also in a rural position. So housing is really a need and there’s lots of different ways of going out there and taking the hammer and the nails and making a house, right? So this piece of property, what we’re planning and looking into is how do we— how do we work it where we’re actually being part of the community and the community is part of— of what it is we’re doing. So it’s not about build it, sell it, build it, build it, sell it. It’s about we already have them sold because the community is already invested. And so the way to do that is like maybe it’s— there’s different grants that are available on the state side and also on the federal side. There’s learning the differences between, you know, a corporation, whether it be an LLC or a corp, or going into a nonprofit sector, or multiple facets, right? I’m sure a lot of l— listeners would know, like I always want to hire smarter people than me that can help me and guide me and teach me because the minute I’m no longer teachable, yeah, I think that’s the end of the game. So yeah, I like to— with this one particular project right now, we’re really trying to offset it and do it in a way that’s collaborative with the community instead of just out there as a developer. But to answer more of your question, in New Jersey, I have a— four-lot subdivision in a— in a prime area that I actually went ahead and I took it in. I— I was able to get a forestry plan and farm assessment. So the property is sitting there and again, it’s learning and developing. So I can sit on this property for a real long time because all I’m paying is like $800 in property taxes. Meanwhile, it’s eight figures plus worth of real estate. And it’s just humming along. I— it— it— it— it just sit waiting, all approved, ready to go. I— I gotta pay for— I have to pay for the insurance. I gotta pay for the bond and it just keeps it alive and it’s just let it— let things— New Jersey’s building itself right out. Can’t buy any more— we can’t make land. So therefore, if you can find that opportune place. And that opportune place exists. You just have to look between the black and the white. And and that I would tell you is one of my strengths is that I always look for the gray. So this particular piece of property I’m talking about in New Jersey, it came out of an estate. It was a workout. It took a long time. I had to get the DEP involved because it used to be an old pig farm and you had—

Freddie Steen (08:16)
About the DEP, tell us about that.

Rogan O’Donnell (08:18)
Department of Environmental Protection. In New Jersey, that’s a real big deal with Phase Ones and Phase Twos. This means you’re— this means you’re hiring lawyers, engineers, but also in the engineers, there’s different levels of engineers. So when you’re doing environmental protection, you’re making sure things like radon aren’t existing or arsenic aren’t existing in soils and that it won’t contaminate or hurt anybody who’s going to live in your— in your area, right? And so, this particular site from the nineteen forties, fifties, and sixties, the rules were very different. So they were able to do things with their pig farm that we would not be allowed to do today. The cool part is that they stopped all that somewhere around the late ’60s and they stopped being a pig farm. Okay, cool. But there was a central area where because they were under the farm, they’re able to bury lots of their trash and garbage appropriately. And so then what you have to do— the workout is— is that it’s not a landfill, it was a farm, and we can clean it up or we can separate it and we can cap it and we can do all the Department of Environmental Protection investigations. And what they would do is set equipment to do testings in the soil to make sure that it meet the levels that were necessary. So some of it had to be like— we had to bring in a handful of trucks of clean dirt and remove the— the bad dirt. And the bad dirt had arsenic, but it was natural arsenic because there was lots of apple orchards all around and it had settled over time. But you don’t know these things until you get into it. But then after you get into it, you— you clean it all up, you get to buy it for a really nice price. You subdivide it. Now you’re on this beautiful lake and waterfront. You turn around and use that noggin and and those other people, and you find out like, wait a second, we can create woodland management, which is under farm assessment, which then brings down the real estate property taxes, but also sets you up forever and a day, even though it’s separated. It just has areas of like, you’re not gonna— you’re not gonna destroy all the woods. And people can live in a very nice area with a rural setting on the water.

Freddie Steen (11:30)
Wow, wow. That is— that’s really fascinating. When you talk about the dealing with the DEP at a macro level, all of our real estate pros who are dealing with what’s not being made more of, which is land, can— can appreciate that. Let’s go micro. And I want to go back to something that you said and piggyback— no pun intended. You mentioned pigs. I want to piggyback on that. You talked about the community and I think our listeners and our real estate pros across the country and around the world would want to know about the work you’ve done with houses first.

Rogan O’Donnell (12:06)
Move on. so for my life, I— I was born with dyslexia. So that’s a learning disability. And in there, there comes all kinds of— there’s a lot of workout, right? You’re gonna go through the public school system and try to make things happen. And you know what? I just learned differently. It’s as simple as that. But once— once you find your pace and your groove, and things change, hopefully things really change. So that being said, I also use lots of substances to ease a lot of this uncomfortability. And I was fortunate enough in my late teens to actually get sober and change my life. Right. Thank you so much. Yeah. So that was all the way back in nineteen ninety and knock on wood,

Freddie Steen (12:55)
Congratulations.

Rogan O’Donnell (13:02)
it w— we we’ve maintained that all along and and I’m blessed and grateful for that, but that also gave me— just like for everybody else that’s out there, we— we have our own story, right? And so part of my story is like, I can— I can see things and and and work with things differently than say conventionally. So what I see is it— in— in Monmouth County, New Jersey, I ended up buying a whole block. I got lucky. And then that whole block, there’s a duplex and then there’s a large multifamily. And then there was a small like thousand-foot single-family. And because of working relationships and and— and I know your viewers have heard like, relationships, relationships, relationships, relationships. I’m gonna— I’m preaching to the choir: relationships, relationships, relationships. It— it— you know, you— you the— you attract the bees with the honey, right? Sweet sugar. It— it goes a long way. If I’m always buckle enough against the system, the system’s not going to accept me. And they’re gonna win. Eventually they will remember and it will come back. You can fight and bully and push, but it— it’s not the way it is. And especially in today’s time, it’s very, very different. So I see that there’s a collaboration to be had with community instead of me trying to go in there and and tear it all up. And so the way of doing that is as an example, some of— some of your viewers will have heard of NIMBY: not in my backyard. And that’s a big deal. That can really mess with real estate investors. but there’s always— there’s always, Freddie, a way around where there’s the gray area. And the gray area is the magic. So if it’s not in my backyard, what do I have to do to say it’s okay to be here? Well, w— one part is I— I bought the whole block. So there wasn’t really like not in my backyard. Hands down. And across the street, I went and talked to all those folks that were going to be the neighbors and said, “Would you have a problem if I was to put in a men’s recovery house?” And— and I— I told them who I was, what I was doing, not like I’m special, but that I also had gone to the judges of Monmouth County and they’ve given me letters. I went to the chief of the fire station and— and they gave me a letter of like, “We support you.” And I went to the captain of the— the police, and, “We support you.” And I went to the CEO and the chairs of the different departments— like the emergency room and the psychiatric unit and the CEO of the hospital, and they gave me letters, right? And then I went to the EMTs because, you know, overdoses and things happened and I wanted them to know what I was doing. And— and they gave me letters. And then I— I backed it up with not only these letters, but I actually had a plan on how this was actually going to be benefiting the community and working with the community. I also went to the probation office office and and told them what I had going on and at that time it was called drug court. And everybody was like, “Yes, this would be really great.” And it’s an— it was a need. There was an absolute niche and a need. So in doing so, I didn’t come up with not in my backyard. Sure, there were some people who were very skeptical and nervous, but at the same point in time, I took my time to do a little research to find out what’s going on in the community, what’s needed, how this would react, how if I could get support. And I was able to get the support. So it wasn’t cramming it down their face and, you know, press and news and the big talk and show. It was more of an invitation. And I think anybody out there that if you’re invited, you have the opportunity to say yes or no, instead of it being an argument. So I highly, highly, highly recommend invitations. That’s just one example.

Freddie Steen (17:06)
Love it. Love it. What— what caught my attention about you, Rogan, was the way you’ve been able to, if I could use— as a true developer, use the— the runoff of the knowledge that your father had in banking, your journey at Franklin Pierce University where you graduated from, your journey into sobriety, the runoff of that, which all matters when you’re talking about developers, because runoff goes into the soil. So now let’s get to the nitty-gritty. it’s not easy to do what you’re doing, especially in this climate. The runoff of all of that has been your connection to the community. And you’ve leveraged all of this runoff to gain where you are right now. Let me ask you this question, Rogan. What’s been the key to keeping that machine, that runoff, running smoothly?

Rogan O’Donnell (17:54)
That’s a really good question. It doesn’t feel smoothly. Anybody who’s got their money in real estate in this world in these times, I do not believe it smoothly. You’ve got folks out there that got, you know, we’ll say two and a quarter, if they’re really lucky, all the way to like five percent interest rates on their homes, right? Or on projects. It now— they now. Freddie, nothing for nothing. We’re at six or seven percent, right? That’s the same we were at back in 2007. And people act like it’s this whole different world, like, “Whoa, 7%. You got to be kidding me.” In 2007, we were at 7%. I know this. I was a founder of a bank. I’m 100% sure that’s where we were at. And today, you’ve got those folks that are holding on to that great interest rate that they have that we’ll just say 3% to 5%, which is phenomenal. Right. But now they’re tagged in for like ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty years, whatever it is, and they’re gonna ride that. And that’s gonna hold them back.

Freddie Steen (18:53)
Rogan, we had— have had such a great conversation prior to this pod. I have to pick up on something that you said that, you know, I know about, that our listening audience, the real estate pros that are listening, do not. Can you go through, just at a high thirty-thousand-foot view level, of your first real estate deal that was a land deal that you converted that— that the transaction placed a bank, a community bank, on top of that land? How did you see that coming? How did the runoff from your father’s knowledge work? And how did you use that runoff to land into the soil that became profitable for you? Could you explain?

Rogan O’Donnell (19:31)
Yep, yep. Real estate developers, we all know the word luck, right? Luck. So so so so my first real estate deal, I— I bought with a partner. We bought three warehouse buildings, we rented two of them, and we put a business that we were both in and one of them. And here— here comes the luck out of nowhere in the newspaper. It cites our property to be the train station for the Monmouth Ocean Middlesex Train Line. Our next-door neighbor called us up and offered us a gazillion dollars if we ran over there right now and picked up a check and signed. Well, you know, I was 27 years old, and a gazillion dollars, I was like, “Okay, buddy.” I ran right over there and took that check. Like one, two, three. Here’s the crazy part: that was in like two thousand and four? No, I’m lying. That was in like two thousand. Yes, right. And that Monmouth Ocean Middlesex station is still not there.

Freddie Steen (21:16)
Smart move for you, right?

Rogan O’Donnell (21:18)
So I had this money. Luck. I am not a musician, magician. It’s luck. I— I— I ended up in the right place. I fixed up those buildings. I put my business there. We were working, things were good. It was paying its bills. We were chugging along. This is all before I owned my first house. I was still living with mom and dad, graduated college, and was figuring it all out. Boom, this happens. Holy Christmas, right? I get to go buy a house. Awesome. At the same point in time, it— it— like, I need more. This is unbelievable. And it was that springboard that launched off to multiple different deals to get me all the way to— here we go again— luck. We were involved in another— as a family, we were involved in another startup of a community bank. the stars aligned, we were able to sell the bank for three times its book earnings. Again, luck, right? hard work. Hard work is always part of luck, but being at the right place at the right time. At that point in time, my father said, “Hey, listen, you guys wanna start another bank with us, with me and the— and the rest of the guys?” We’re like, “Yes, we do.” It’s like, “Great, you got to go find the property.” So I ran around and again, learning through real estate. So learn— again, research, right? I’m gonna tell you the hardest thing that I learned is do your research. Crunch your numbers, but do your research on the community. Involve the community. Be active with the community. I know sitting on different nonprofit boards is unfulfilling because it doesn’t pay you or it takes up a lot of time and energy. But I’m here to tell you right now, when you get to learn what’s going on in the community and you have folks in the community and and relationships, that you get to hear little things that all of a sudden can turn into a quick opportunity. So, community. The folks that own the— the Friendlys restaurant were looking to retire. Again, community. “Rogue, you’re looking for a bank site.” “Yeah, I heard this.” I went over to the Friendlys— I hadn’t been there in a while— went over there Friendlys, guess what they had, Freddie? You’re never gonna guess. So I’m just gonna tell you: drive-thru. You can drive around and get your ice cream. I’m here to tell people right now, back then in the day when we were building the bank, that was a hundred-thousand-dollar approval all on its own. You’d have to have the DOT, Department of Transportation, approve a drive-thru. But if you’re pre-existing, voila, you get a drive-thru, which at the time was a big deal. So I’m already— I’m already hitting a home run. Forget the price, I’m already hitting a home run. It was a very expensive acquisition for me at the same point in time. It was a Friendly’s restaurant. It was a slab. I had the drive-thru. Again, I did my homework. I had land behind where I could get additional approvals for more building going on. I’m on a major highway. I’m in a major community. I already know the temperature for the business. I’m going sign a kick-butt lease, and life is going to be great because I’m bringing them a drive-thru pre-approved. Here’s how it gets even more magical: Friendly’s is only one story. The bank is going to be two stories. I get to sell the air rights of that second story to the bank without me even building it. It’s a bad day. It’s not a bad day.

Freddie Steen (24:49)
Iron sharpens iron. I mean— so every operator I know has a moment where things got real. You know, maybe a deal that went sideways or a time that you had to pivot fast. You mind sharing one of those moment— moments for our audience?

Rogan O’Donnell (24:52)
Right. Sure. Those that were in the game back when the 2007-2008 world went upside down in banking and real estate, I was heavily invested in banking and real estate. I— I diversified through bank stocks. if you— it— I grew up with a professional banker. And so I had the ins and outs and learning banking to an— to an ultimate. I mean, just to— to toot my father’s horn, besides him having a PhD in business and multiple master’s degrees, he also did these little funny things like guest lecture at Wharton and Harvard. It’s like, so it’s the real deal, okay? And and and he— and he was very well respected and very well known as the banker he was. That being said, he— I— I understand people and families, it— it’s an F-word: families, right? So it can get messy. At the same point in time, I was lucky enough to be a sponge, and I was happy enough to carry his briefcase and go on the train rides or drive the car. And— and I’m getting to the point that you’re looking for, Freddie, is that I was able to learn from a high-level individual who was happy to teach others, including his son. Now, my dad never gave me like, “Here. Take this money and go do something cool.” My father would always say, “I will give you the opportunity for you to develop you. Me just giving you the money isn’t gonna help you develop you.” Sure. “I give you— I give you a thousand bucks. What do you have to say for it afterwards?” And— and just change the number: a hundred thousand, million, whatever it is. What do you got to show for? You’re just gonna go and buy that high-volume special item. “I want the— the name-brand this or the— the cool car like that or whatever.” He’s like, “You gotta— you gotta earn it. You gotta earn it.” So that being said, when the market crashed, I— like lots of people, I lost my shirt. I did not see it coming. I— I— I thought I was the Midas touch, meaning you touch it and it was gold. I was on my way, I had four different major commercial pieces going up. I had lots of money tied to— some folks will remember this— non-refundable deposits. yeah. back in the day, that was how you had to play. Like, “Here, I’ll pony up, you know, whatever the zeros were and say, ‘Okay, I’ll— I’m in. Your confidence is that I wrote you a check. It’s non-refundable. I’m gonna see this thing through. I’m a man of my word. Let’s go.'” I don’t know where everybody is and I don’t know how it goes, but where I was, it’s all paper and pen. There is no handshake, there is no high five, it’s all gonna work out. It’s black and white ink, and yes, you’re gonna pay— you’re gonna pay that lawyer to make sure you’re protected. I am anyways, because I have seen— I’ve— here, here, here’s one of my bad deals. My— my— that transaction that turned into a— a million-dollar deal where I sold those warehouses. That transaction, my first commercial transaction, I’m like 27 years old. I’m borrowing three hundred thousand dollars. This is huge for me. Huge. Huge. Right?

Freddie Steen (28:27)
That’s nothing to seize that at twenty-seven, Ro.

Rogan O’Donnell (28:29)
No, and I did everything. I— I was director of marketing and sales for chair manufacturing in Staten Island, New York. I hustled, hustled, hustled, work weekends, whatever it was to make it to— aside jobs over here, whatever it was, stack cash, stack cash, because I wanted to be able to get my own spot and do my own thing. So I buy this piece of property, we clean it up, fix it up, make it all nice and pretty. I’m— I— before all that happened, you have to do the closing. I fire this fool attorney who’s like Mr. Smart, right? And he’s kind of like in his forties and I’m in my twenties and he— we talk basketball and you know, and he’s cool, right? And he’s smart. And I’m like, “This is my attorney. We’re gonna take this to the distance.” And he’s like jibing me with all this, like, “You’re gonna become a real estate investor, developer. I see so much potential in you. I’m gonna be your attorney for life,” and all this good stuff. And I’m like, “Let’s do it,” right? We’ll leave his name out of the picture. We get to the closing table. I’ve gotten, you know, stacks of papers and, you know, contracts. I’ve read everything. this is before AI, guys, just to let you know. Like, you have to actually sit down and read this stuff. It’s a lot of work. I’ve read it, I’ve read— and cell phones were just starting to come into the picture. Like, you couldn’t take pictures with a camera yet, right?

Freddie Steen (30:21)
World before AI? And phones had cords and they were wireless. So you’re at the closing table. Ro, you got us here. What happens next?

Rogan O’Donnell (30:38)
The— the— I became friendly with the owner of the property. And he drove a white Ferrari and had lots of real estate. And he was like, “You know what, kid? I’m gonna show you some things.” And he would drive me around and he’d show me how he owned this strip center and he owned this and he owned this and he did this and he did that. And I was like google eyes, like, “Wow,” and he’s telling me how he moves the money and how he makes the things happen. And I was like, “Wow, this is so great, and thank you so much and teaching me and showing me.” And then we go to the closing table, and he had a beef with my lawyer from a deal that went on years before me, and he never signed the contract. And my lawyer never checked to see if it was signed. And so we went to the closing table, and I’ve got this cashier’s check ready to pay, and he pulls out a new survey and he cuts a quarter of an acre off the property. And that’s my face, just like that, Freddie. I’m like, “I’m sorry, sir.” We’re just gonna keep “sirs” so we don’t tell people’s names. But I’m like, “I’m sorry, sir. I don’t understand. This doesn’t match my survey.” Like, I digested all of the information. I was— I was a professional. I knew exactly how big the property was, what I was gonna do, what my plans were. like Plan A, B, C, D, just in case I had a F and a G if I failed. Like, I— I had a way in, I had a way out. It was gonna be okay. And he comes and he cuts a quarter of an acre off. And I’m like, “I don’t know.” And basically, in a nutshell, he tells the lawyer off right there in front of us in a grandstand, “You blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” Looks at me, points his finger at me, and says, “Kid, come over to my office, we’ll work something out. But if you’re with that guy, we’re not gonna do anything. I’m sorry, I had to subdivide it. That’s the way it’s gonna be. Same price, you decide.” And I’m sitting there looking at my lawyer. I mean, I’m gassed. I’m completely gassed. Like this is— I need the restroom like right now. It’s a bad day. And the lawyer looks at me and he goes— I don’t— and he’s just flipping paper, like, “I don’t— I don’t understand. We have— we have paperwork going back and forth. What do you mean?” And he’s like, “Do your work. That’s what you get when you get a loud, blah, blah, blah person. They don’t do their work and they charge you an arm and a leg.” And I’m going like— I mean, defeated. Holy Christmas. I didn’t sleep three days before the closing. I was all wound up and so excited and planning it and thinking it. And then this happens, and it was like really, really hard. Really hard. So needless to say, I get my money back from the attorney and I fire the attorney and I go over to the real estate owner. And I walk in with my tail totally tucked. Not that it was ever up, but like if you want to talk about a deflated ego, this guy’s literally got me. I’m paying on that 300 right now and I’m upside down because I owe 300 plus the interest already, and I don’t own the property, and I’ve already put all my money into it. And so the next thing you know, I go in and he says, “This is what I can do with you. Okay.” And I’m like, “Okay.” He’s like, “I’m gonna— I’m gonna need the quarter. But I’ll allow you an easement so you can cross the property so that it doesn’t interrupt your business.” And I was like, “Okay.” He’s like, “Only because you came here and you showed up.”

Freddie Steen (33:56)
Isn’t that half the battle sometime is just coming and showing up? I mean, Ro, that’s the kind of stuff people don’t talk about enough. You know, honestly, it’s what separates the folks who just dabble from the ones who stay in the game long term. Let me ask you this, Rogan. What are you most focused on solving or scaling next? What’s the next real goal for you?

Rogan O’Donnell (34:15)
I moved back home. Home to me is Maine. I’m very fortunate with real estate. Real estate became not only a business, not only a way of life, but it was the freedom. I— I— I really have adapted and learned how to work with banks and how to— I don’t want to say leverage, I wanna say work with loans and monies and all the accounting vocabulary that everybody knows, but how to actually make money and be secure. Some people like to call it, you know, mailbox money, right? So so my bills are paid and things go on and life is good and knock on wood, it— it took its time, slow and steady, but it— and it ended up happening. So from there, COVID did a magical thing for a lot of people. A guy like me, I saw numbers that I’d— I projected to see when I— still 10 years from now, like in my 60s, late 60s, I thought— the numbers that I would— that I was seeing back in 2020 got, I mean, unheard of. Like, what? Wait, really? And— and I was the kind of person who would say, “You know, I’d— I’d never show your cards, right?” That— that’s another part of the game. It just try to be cool and polite, but you— you— you can go home and think it through. You don’t have to say yes or no right away. So people out there that don’t know that, here’s your permission: go home. Go home, go home. Don’t say yes just because you want to say yes, and don’t say no just because you want to go say no. Go home and sleep on it. Take— take the 24 hours. It might make all the difference in the world. It has for me over and over again. I will say, “I have to go talk to my wife.” I’ll say, “I have to go talk to my partners,” whether I have partners or not. I’ll say, “I have to go home and think about it.” I’ll say, “I just need some time. I— I really like this. I’m really in. I’m really excited. I just need a few minutes.” I’m not talking about every deal. Like you’re gonna go buy the house because you want to buy the house and you negotiate the price and you’re like, “They’ve accepted it,” and you put your deposit down. You still have a contingency period to be able to think it through. Like, I’m— I’m being smart here. I’m talking about major deals, big stuff. They’re waiting for you because you’ve already— they’ve proofed you out. They know you can write the check and make it happen, just that so they want to sell it to you. So just take a little extra time. what I’m trying to do right now is again, going back to what we’ve already talked about. I want to collaborate with community. I’ve moved back to Maine. I was fortunate, I was able to sell a significant amount of my portfolio through the— the COVID time period that not only financially offset things, but also greatly offset things where it’s given me the affordability to be able to do more compassionate projects. And so instantly, when my wife and I settled in Maine, I— I— I— I really believe in real estate. I went right out and I bought a four-bedroom house that’s a little bit of a fix-me-upper. You know, I— I cleaned it up a little bit and boom, put renters in there and already was established that I got this, I got a little bit of money coming in. Okay. We— we got an anchor. All right. And then I found some land that I really liked, like 35 acres, and said, “You know what, I think I can do something pretty cool with this.” That person again, it’s— it’s those relationships and being in a position that I’m able to help you, and yet at the same, it’s gonna help me. 90% of my acquisitions have always been about somehow we’re helping each other out. Somehow.

Freddie Steen (37:56)
Nice.

Rogan O’Donnell (37:57)
Somehow I say 90 because that 10 where I got to sell that one for the train, that had nothing to do with helping anybody out but me. That person was like, “Here’s a big check, come and get it.” And I ran right over and was like, “I’ll take it,” and signed and closed, and then it’s still sitting there, there’s still way in, and it’s finally caught up to value for them. But we’re talking 20 years, like 26. So so so I’ve taken that money in the 26 years and compounded it so many times that I— I would not have been able to— that gave me the leg financially to be able to get into the game wholeheartedly and start doing multiple projects. So this project up here, it’s gonna take a little time, but again, I go back to know the community. When I was in graduate school for clinical mental health counseling, which happens to be also my father’s alma mater, Husson University in Bangor, Maine, I noticed that there was a great deal of a homeless problem. I wasn’t sure why my town from when I was a little kid and always visiting in the summers was experiencing significant homelessness. So I started— I— I had somebody ask me if I would buy them a bagel. Long story short, we sat down, ate a bagel. They told me about an encampment. They told me about what was going on. “Can you take me there? Can you show me?” That all got worked out. And Freddie, in my world, I really do have a spiritual side that keeps things grounded for me. And I got this call that said, “Tell their story.” And so this goes into that— community development is that I see homelessness as a real problem. So I created a documentary called InhuMAINE. It shows a microcosm of the last city in the northeast, Bangor, Maine, how it is the same as LA or the same as San Francisco or New York or Boston, except we’re Chicago, except we’re 32,000, not three million, 300,000— we’re just 32,000, and that’s pretty small. And so what I see is that there needs to be a collaboration with the community to create housing that’s affordable. But again, it— I— I— I don’t wanna— I don’t ever want any, you know, true colors here, full disclosure. It’s gotta pay its bills. I’m happy to donate and play at a— at a level that I’m able to, but I’m not— I’m not, we’ll call it Santa Claus. Like, it has to work out. It has to function, it has to take care of itself. So in here, in this possible collaboration that we’re— we’re— we’re still discussing and working on, as I had mentioned in a little bit earlier, is that there’s federal funding, there’s state funding, there’s local means of other organizations wanting to contribute, and then there’s this starting with a nonprofit and being able to utilize the land that also brings in more jobs and creates. So so it’s a big workout project that could actually turn out and also be part of a solution instead of part of a problem.

Freddie Steen (41:18)
Rogan, that’s big. I mean, it’s especially when you— you’ve already got this legacy that you were able, the runoff of which brought you into real estate with the warehouse deal, the runoff of which leads you into community partnerships and understanding the value in relationships and networking. The next move can either compound things or create chaos depending on how you play it. Now, I know a lot of people listening are either earlier in their journey, like you were in your twenties, but we talk to people from California to New York to the south to the upper northwest, and and even in the heartbeat of it all, the Midwest. I know that there are people who are looking to level up. And I think they benefit from hearing this, Rogan. When it comes to building relationships and growing your network the way that you have, yeah, what’s made the biggest difference for you?

Rogan O’Donnell (42:16)
Truth, honesty, integrity, showing up like we’ve talked about. Yeah. I want to be the kind of person that when I look you in the eye, Freddie, and say, “I would like to do this,” and then I dot my I’s and cross my T’s. I— I— I don’t take the shortcuts, but play it straight, as straight as I possibly can. I sleep really well at night because I’m not worried about somebody coming up behind me. You might not like necessarily what I’m gonna do with the property. You might think I should do 10 houses instead of four, big ones, right? Like mm— selling high luxury homes, right? Okay, that’s fair. Or you might not want to see that development happen because you enjoy the— the wilderness. But I— I kept wilderness and I put in the big homes. So I get the best of both worlds because I want it to be that way too. And it— and I— and I’m making, you know, phenomenal money on it. so so I’ve tried to find that harmony. I wouldn’t say balance because I don’t— I don’t think balance exists. Not in— not anywhere in real estate. Anybody who can share balance with me in real estate, I— I— I might laugh a lot just because we have such a swing diversity. I mean, between interest rates, between niches in c— in states that are good or bad, between— well here— here— here’s what: if I was to be starting at twenty all over again and I found an area that I wanted to get involved with, the first thing I would do is go create some relationships with financial institutions. They will be what—

Freddie Steen (43:59)
Explain that for our audience. Why you would do that in the—

Rogan O’Donnell (44:02)
I was fortunate enough to have a banker as a father who introduced me to lots of other bankers in the area. So for me, it would be like going down and seeing Tom at whatever, whatever bank. So Tom and I already met each other. I’d already had interaction and there was already a— a familiar, right? So I have to go and create a familiar because up here, I don’t have a familiar. It’s all new banks, all different— all different players, right? So the first thing I did was I had to go and open up some bank accounts, right? Well, guess what? There’s four different banks. I got four different bank accounts and one in each bank. And I start making relationships with a loan officer and say, “Hi, you know, you’re the branch manager. Where’s your loan officer? I might be interested in getting a loan for some projects I do. Blah, blah, blah. Talk, talk, talk, establish a little bit of a friendly.” Now all of a sudden, it’s not a cold interaction. I’ve come in, I put a couple of grand in the bank, got back and forth, come in and out. Play the game, right? It’s like it’s a game. Play the game. Make those relationships. And they happen pretty quickly. It’s nothing like you got to wait years and years. This is like within a couple of months, just by going in and being like, “Hey, could you introduce me to some developers that you know? Or could— is there a way that I can interact with some of your business folks that are doing real estate?” The lenders will say, “Yeah, you should go check out Freddie’s project. He’s building XYZ out there.” There’s a big sign that says “XYZ Bank and Trust” or whatever, right? Credit union, whoever knows. go show up and be like, “Hey, I was looking for Freddie. bank over here and I did real estate too. And I’m— this is amazing. What are you doing?” I don’t know about you, but I’m always happy when somebody’s telling me I’m doing amazing and they want 10 minutes of my time to show them like, “I built this, blah, blah, blah, blah.” And they’re like, “Wow, this is great, unbelievable. Do you have another product?” Just like what we’re doing here on the podcast. People like to do it in real life too. Go check out their project. Go make acquaintances. Those acquaintances, you never know, they may help you in the long run. I would also tell you to get involved with the township and find out what the township likes and dislikes. That means you’re gonna have to go to a couple planning board meetings and get a temperature. Some pe— some places are really historically structured. They want it a certain way. You come in being conservative, and they’re like, “No, no, we want contemporary.” You’re probably not gonna get approved. You’re gonna have to come back to three or four meetings where the architect charges you all kinds of money and it— and it looks completely like this instead of like this and instead of like that. And you’re still going at it, right? So I’m here to tell you right now, go— the research, go develop relationships, acquaintances, go test the waters, see what other people are doing for projects, get a feel for the climate, because you’re gonna need professionals to show up to get approvals for whatever it is you’re looking for, right? If you were to put a pool in your backyard, you’re gonna need an electrician, a plumber, site work done, an engineer. Township’s gonna know those people. Granted, they’re not gonna tell you who to use, but you can see based on who shows up at planning board meetings and— and stands to say, “Such and such engineering group,” and you see such and such engineering group over and over again, and they’re getting approvals. I would go with such and such engineering group because they’re already getting approvals from the township. You’ve seen the laundry list for the last few months. That would be a good sign versus me bringing in somebody from—

Freddie Steen (47:16)
Who’s—

Rogan O’Donnell (47:42)
—XYZ, who doesn’t know anybody, who doesn’t have a relationship? Again: relationships, relationships, relationships. Let’s just change our perception and focus and look at those relationships on a business side by stepping back and seeing how those relationships are working in harmony that you want to get involved in. It’s already moving. You’re not going to change it. So get with it and move in harmony.

Freddie Steen (48:06)
Rogan, I cannot agree with you more when you speak about harmony, and I want to pick up on that before we close. The harmony that you speak of, I want you to tell our audience how you’ve been able to find that harmony by building relationship, using your knowledge in real estate, your knowledge in community banking to do development projects that actually profit you and profit the community. Can you give us a thirty-thousand-foot view of that? That harmony.

Rogan O’Donnell (48:35)
So let’s look at the— the sober house was real harmony. I had to have harmony in the recovery community. I had to have harmony in the— we’ll call it the professional community around within Monmouth County, New Jersey. I— I had to make sure that those two were going to be able to sync up in a way that it was going to work, right? So let’s talk about— let’s talk about how drug addiction and alcoholism has really negative stigmas. And who wants active drug addict alcoholics living near them at all? And who wants their property value diminished by having recovery housing near their expensive, wonderful, beautiful home, residential house, right? So harmony is to be able to find a way and create a common ground, a common language that actually works. And that works through not just the talk. Like, talk is cheap. We’ve all heard that. But the action. So if you’re able to back up your talk with the action and people can see the action actually in place, then all of a sudden it starts to happen. This isn’t anything for the first-time buyer or— or builder or investor to be able to have happening right now. This is like a deep in-the-pocket game because you’ve been around for a little while. So— so you’re not going to be able to do the harmony right off the bat in— in the way that I could do it because of all those relationships. But we’re also talking decades of developing it. But if I was coming at it brand new, I would go back at it just the same way we just talked about by developing professional relationships and then looking to do whatever your project is that you’re looking to do inside the professional community around. So if you’re bringing in— let’s just say Freddie has a bakery and I want to bring a bakery. Freddie makes really great donuts and I’m going to make croissants. Okay, we’re competing, but we’re two different entities. Instead of me just doing my own thing and never introducing myself to Freddie, and knowing Freddie’s been here for like 30 years and makes banging donuts and sells out every morning, I’m going to go over and introduce myself way before this thing is happening and say, “Hi, I really like your donuts. Guess what? I make croissants and blah, blah, blah, completely different than yours. I just wanted to introduce myself because I also bought the building a couple of blocks down and I’m going to be making that stuff. And I just want us to be able to be like friendly and stuff.” Now, guess what? Freddie’s gonna be like, “You make croissants? Really?” Who knows what the conversation is gonna go like? But I didn’t come in and Freddie have no idea and finds it through the grapevine and like, “Hmm.” Because guess what? Freddie might be the guy that I go ahead and open the door and he comes down with a dozen donuts and says, “Hey, I’m Freddie Donuts. I just wanted to say, congratulations. Rock on. Let me be your first customer.” And I should be the one doing that because I’m the new guy in town. So I got to lose some ego and I got to get back down to that humble level of going around, shaking hands, introducing myself. Some people will like me, some people won’t. But we can work it out.

Freddie Steen (51:54)
Krispy Kreme better watch out. Freddy’s done Look, relationships, bro, you can’t— you can’t fake that. I mean, relationships are everything in this space. All right. Before we wrap, Rogan, if someone wanted to reach out, connect with you, and maybe collaborate or learn more about what you’re doing, what’s the best way for them to reach you?

Rogan O’Donnell (51:56)
Freddie’s coming. Really simple. Rogan, R-O-G-A-N, O’Donnell, O-D-O-N-N-E-L-L at gmail.com. Please send an email. I also, just for the record, I have been blessed and lucky to do consulting and work with people in a way where again, there’s that harmony of— it helps pay the bills and helps work with projects. so there are the— there are lots of opportunities.

Freddie Steen (52:43)
Perfect. I mean, harmony is what we all need. Well, listen, I appreciate your time, Rogan. Your story tremendous and your perspective as a legacy has to resonate with our real estate— real estate pros all around the world and around the country here in the United States, from the south to the north, to the east, to the west, and even in the Midwest, the heart of it all. We need more people in this space who are doing it the right way. So thanks again for being here. And— and for those of you tuning in, if you got value from this, make sure you’re subscribed. We’ve got more conversations coming with operators just like Rogan O’Donnell, who are out there building real businesses just like you. Rogan, gratitude. Thank you.

Rogan O’Donnell (53:31)
Thank you, Freddie. I appreciate it.

Freddie Steen (53:32)
And we’ll see you on the next episode.