From Labs to Cash Flow: AJ Exner’s Path to Property Wealth

AJ Exner (00:00)
I think the toughest step is the first. So to bring in some of my science background, know, the, there’s the rule of conservation of momentum. It’s the idea that an object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion. And the biggest element is getting in motion.
some of that motion might be listening to podcasts, you know, listen to podcasts like this help to get an understanding of what’s going on. Might be reading books, but at some point you got to take that first step.

Kristen Knapp (00:25)
Mm-hmm.

AJ Exner (00:25)
And that is the toughest for so many investors. I was fortunate enough, we had a little bit of equity in our primary home. We opened up a HELOC, I used that money to buy my first one.

And I had some learning, like I wanted to do some things on my own, find a good tenant, advertise, know, interview, do all that stuff. But it has been such a ⁓ wonderful gift to our family,

Kristen Knapp (02:17)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros podcast. I’m Kristen Knapp and I’m here with AJ Exner, who’s a broker and investor. He’s over at LoanBidz, which is a hard money DSCR brokerage firm. So we’re excited to have you. Thank you so much for being here.

AJ Exner (02:29)
Absolutely, thank you for having me.

Kristen Knapp (02:30)
Yes, I want to jump into your really interesting background and the way you got into the brokerage world. ⁓ You didn’t start in this world, right?

AJ Exner (02:39)
Yeah.

No, not at all.

Kristen Knapp (02:42)
Yeah, tell us more about that.

AJ Exner (02:44)
Yeah, so I’d say my journey certainly started in college. went and first thought it was to be a doctor. And I’ll tell you right now, the class load of organic chemistry, physics, and anatomy kicked my butt. And I said, you know what? School is a lot. So I’m actually a biology major by trade. I got my master’s in plant science, which is just as exciting as it sounds. ⁓ Focused on genetic breeding, and so took my knowledge of DNA.

Kristen Knapp (03:05)
Yeah

AJ Exner (03:10)
Pursued careers with crime scene investigations, spent about five years doing that. Pivoted that into private laboratory testing, which kind of cascaded in 2020 to COVID testing, which took up a majority of my life as it did many others. But I was oftentimes the one shoving the swabs in people’s brains. So that was myself. You’re welcome for the people that I had to do that to. And then really just kind of

By happenstance, we ended up with a friend of mine who was a part of this firm called LoanBidz, had reached out as kind of a point of transition for me and my family and said, what are your thoughts on the loans? And at the time, my only experience was my primary mortgage and some student loans that I had paid off. So I said, I don’t have any thoughts on loans. And he said, hey, why don’t you come and check in the shop, talk about it a little bit. And I really haven’t looked back since. That was…

That would have been the end of 2022. I started with the company in January of 23 and really it’s just, it’s been a wonderful time since then.

Kristen Knapp (04:09)
Wow, mean, COVID must’ve been such a stressful time for you working in that industry.

AJ Exner (04:13)
You know,

it was wild because I remember in February of 2020, I was at Chick-fil-A with my family and getting calls from the lab, getting calls from local health department officials saying, hey, do you think this is going to be a thing? mean, genuinely having those conversations at the beginning of 2020. it’s like, maybe we’ll prepare just in case it is. And obviously it did. ⁓

Kristen Knapp (04:31)
Yeah.

the thing.

AJ Exner (04:38)
I think we

scaled and by the time 2021 hit, think we were the leading private testing lab in the state of Missouri. And so it scaled quickly. It was crazy. It kept me really busy, certainly during that time. But glad it’s over. We’re glad to be behind it.

Kristen Knapp (04:53)
Yeah, definitely.

Probably a lot of burnout.

AJ Exner (04:56)
Yeah, yeah, but I met some great people. I think that’s kind of been my theme through whether it’s investing or anything that I’ve done in the past has been just ⁓ maintaining connections with people and trying to treat people well in the midst of everything.

Kristen Knapp (05:09)
Yeah, I love that. transitioning into this new career, what did you take from your genetic studies? How was it a lateral movement? What was so interesting about this,

AJ Exner (05:18)
Ha ha.

Yeah, so with that, mean, heavy math guy, especially as a crime scene investigator, a big part of your work is probability and statistics because you’re saying, you know, it’s not very likely that this DNA would come from anybody else because and then you would have to support that based on statistics. And so I say having a pretty heavy math background was a big part, especially as a broker when you’re

Kristen Knapp (06:25)
and

AJ Exner (06:29)
crunching numbers and you’re looking at loan to value, loan to cost, to after repair value, and you’re looking at percentages of purchase price to rehab and interest rates and everything else, it helps to kind of have that background. So I’d say that was a big part, but I think even in the midst of doing what I did, I still felt a little bit like an outcast. I enjoy people too much and there would be days, especially as ⁓ working in the crime lab where you just, you never talk to anybody. You put your headphones in, you do your job.

Kristen Knapp (06:56)
Yeah.

AJ Exner (06:58)
and you’d leave at the end of the day. It was truly a punch o’clock kind of job. And I was thankful for the people and thankful for the work I did, but yeah, it kind of wears on you. And so for me, being able to take that aspect of what I used to do and help people with it, work with investors all across the country to achieve their dreams, to help them to create generational wealth has just been so enjoyable for me and certainly when I’ve been able to apply to my own life even.

Kristen Knapp (07:23)
It’s amazing, yeah, and it really is an industry where you’re really helping people. You’re helping people grow their generational wealth or buying a home for the first time. So it really does make a difference.

AJ Exner (07:32)
Yeah,

absolutely. there’s always the fun parts, like you always got buddies who are, you know, once you start investing, you’ve always got somebody who’s like, I’ve been thinking about doing that. And then you’re like, all right, let’s do it. And then they’re like, well, and so then you get to have those conversations of like, know, I’m actually I’ve got a really, really good friend who he’s working on buying his first investment. And I’ve been working on him for a while. And a lot of it is just

Kristen Knapp (07:42)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

AJ Exner (07:58)
kind of build up the courage and showing him the numbers, running through the numbers over and over again. And it’s been, it’s been really sweet.

Kristen Knapp (08:02)
Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. Because I think investing, when you’re doing it for the first time, it’s so scary and it’s so unknown and the market’s changing and you don’t know if it’s the right time. And I think people like you probably add more clarity because it’s very like, you can give hard information. Yeah.

AJ Exner (08:21)
Yeah. Yeah.

I think we’re paid to also be realists. You know, I think we were talking off camera a little bit and saying, know, hey, like when I work with a first timer investing in Detroit, investing in Detroit is tough and you have to have expectations of like, Hey, this is the leverage you’re going to get. Hey, if you want that leverage, this is the rate you’re going to get. And it’s like, that’s a high rate. Yeah. And you’re a risky borrower because you’re investing at a state, you know, you’re investing in an area that is notoriously difficult and like they’re going to.

Kristen Knapp (08:25)
Yeah.

AJ Exner (08:51)
they’ll lend to you, but it’s gonna be worth it for them too. And so, once you can walk through people, help them to manage expectations, I think it helps it, gives you that little sense of peace in the midst of the chaos.

Kristen Knapp (09:02)
Of course, of course. So what would you say to someone who’s maybe investing for the first time? What are some misconceptions? Or borrowing for the first

AJ Exner (09:09)
Man, ⁓

yeah, I think the toughest step is the first. So to bring in some of my science background, know, the, there’s the rule of conservation of momentum. It’s the idea that an object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion. And the biggest element is getting in motion. It’s not, you know, and I would argue that some of that motion might be listening to podcasts, you know, listen to podcasts like this help to get an understanding of what’s going on. Might be reading books, but at some point you got to take that first step.

Kristen Knapp (09:38)
Mm-hmm.

AJ Exner (09:39)
And that

is the toughest for so many investors. I was fortunate enough, we had a little bit of equity in our primary home. We opened up a HELOC, I used that money to buy my first one. I said, you know, let’s just do a buy and hold. And I had some learning, like I wanted to do some things on my own, find a good tenant, advertise, know, interview, do all that stuff. But it has been such a ⁓ wonderful gift to our family, getting ready to refinance that one, as well as another one we just got done rehabbing.

for the first time, which was a whole new experience in and of itself. But getting good tenants in there, making a little bit of cash on the side, like now I’m gonna pull out, I just got my quote back from my refinance hoping to pull out my HELOC and a little bit more, which see the numbers on paper and be like, yes, I’m not crazy, like this is doable, even for somebody who doesn’t have a background in it. It’s been really, it’s been good.

Kristen Knapp (10:25)
Right.

Yeah, and then when you’re borrowing money, like what questions do you get from first timers a lot? I’m sure you see the same things over and over.

AJ Exner (11:07)
Uh, you

know, is a hundred percent financing available? Uh, and usually my answer is no, uh, or, or if it is, you don’t want it. There’s an element of you want a little bit of buy-in you, you want some skin in the game when it’s somebody else’s money, they dictate the rules. And so when you’re able to maintain a little bit of control in that sense, keeps, keeps some skin in the game, keeps you accountable, keeps you chugging along. Um, but also just wanting to know like what it looks like, like timing. And, and, and I’m one that.

Kristen Knapp (11:11)
Yeah.

AJ Exner (11:35)
I think the lesson you learn sometimes is just as valuable as the money. And so, you know, I learned in my first, you know, my first project, I’m like, all right, learned, I think the first thing I did was I put on Facebook and put a rental or in a college town. So was like, oh, I’m gonna put it on Facebook. Well, here’s the deal. I’m a millennial, Facebook’s outdated. And I was, you know, casually when I was getting tenant application via Facebook, I was getting Facebook quality tenant applications. And so…

Kristen Knapp (11:59)
Yeah.

AJ Exner (12:00)
I learned, was like, God, I’m just not getting the people that I want. And so I had to do some digging, I had to do some research and I figured out how to get around that. And I found just a great tenant. He’s been, he just renewed his lease for another year. I have him set up on a ACH automated payment. So first of every month I get his check. get, you know, automatically set into my account and I’m able to use that money and make improvements. And we’re already looking for hopefully our next rehab project.

Kristen Knapp (12:24)
Yeah, yeah, I imagine just finding your team, finding your tenants, that’s the hardest part is when you’re really working with people.

AJ Exner (12:31)
Yeah, and that’s a big part of what I do. I’ve got obviously a part-time job as an investor and full-time job as a broker to investors. And I think that’s my big part. My sales pitch as a broker is let me just be a part of your team. I’m not here to gouge you. We’re a big enough firm that we get wholesale pricing with ⁓ some of the largest lenders and providers of DSCR and hard money in the nation. And so with that, like I’m…

Kristen Knapp (12:42)
Mm.

AJ Exner (12:55)
I’m going keep it pretty thin. For me, I want to work more on quantity. So, you know, we’re working on deals where it’s like, hey, I’m going to make sure that you’re not paying that much more, if any more, if you went through us than if you went to this exact same lender direct. And so it’s going to be able to provide you the opportunity to scale, to grow and allow me to be a part of the team. Let me be the finance guy. And so we’re able to kind of work in that sense, build that team. And again, whether it’s that side or as an

Kristen Knapp (13:10)
Yeah.

Right.

AJ Exner (13:24)
investor myself like building, hey, I’ve got to found a really good drywall guy and I had to dig through I think we found them on page three of Google search. So it is it’s it’s taking time. It’s doing the work and then jumping into it.

Kristen Knapp (13:31)
Well…

Yeah, and LoanBidz is a huge company. You guys have a lot of people working with you and you guys have a lot of experience.

AJ Exner (13:44)
Yeah, we do, especially for the kind of the C-suite level. You know, our CEO, Damon Real, has just he’s done everything from top to bottom, working with Wells Fargo, US Bank, developing out mortgage programs. And it’s just and here he is in Springfield, Missouri, spending time with his grandkids when he could be retiring on Turks and Keiko somewhere. so he just such a wealth of knowledge. I think even beyond that, he just he cares for people very well. And so

He’s going to work alongside you. He’s going to help you find solutions. If it’s outside the box, it helps you get to where you need to go, both, again, as an employee, but then also as a client of LoanBidz. And so it helps us to be better brokers and work with our clients a little bit.

Kristen Knapp (14:26)
It’s amazing and you work nationwide. Do you have to be knowledgeable of every market essentially? Yeah.

AJ Exner (14:33)
To a certain degree, yes. You obviously

have your hot markets. We’re seeing a lot of work down in Alabama, Ohio, lot of your Midwest markets we’re pretty active in. Just being Midwest brokers, it’s kind of who we connect with the most. But a lot of stuff on the East Coast as well. We’re always in tune with what’s going on in Florida with insurance requirements, North Carolina, different price points. So a lot of times it helps us as brokers when we know, especially after repair values, understanding like

You know, somebody comes to me with ⁓ a valuation up in Ohio of like, the ARV on this thing is going to be 300. I’m like, what part of Ohio are there properties that are worth $300,000? And so we have to like dig in. We’re pulling, you know, property data. We’re looking into comps.

We’re oftentimes even, you know, if we get a bad appraisal, like we will help the client put together an appraisal appeal and dispute it with them. And so we’re on their side of the table. And so with that, our knowledge of, you know, closing

Kristen Knapp (16:06)
Okay.

AJ Exner (16:09)
anywhere from 15 to $20 million a month in loans gives us a pretty good grasp on whether maybe it’s not me, but I know somebody else in my office does a lot of work in Ohio. So I can go walk down the hallway, talk to Brian and say, hey, Brian, what are you seeing in Canton and Akron and Columbus to really understand, hey, what’s going on with this deal to where maybe it’s like, again, maybe it’s managing expectations of our clients and say, hey,

This isn’t possible. need to trim scope of work back. need to keep that all cinched up or like, hey, I think we’ve got a point to really dispute this. And so it’s working as a team, finding solutions and making it happen.

Kristen Knapp (16:46)
That’s so impressive. Yeah, you guys really have to just have your finger on the pulse of so many areas

AJ Exner (16:52)
So many areas, I mean, we were all chatting about the Fed meeting yesterday, figuring out what’s going on, inevitably all of our money, not that we had a betting pool or anything like that, rates weren’t gonna change. The news will go up, they’ll go down, there’s threats, there’s tariffs, there’s everything. And it’s like, you know what? The rates have been at six and seven since the beginning, since January one. And so for us, it’s building out, again, laid down expectations, maybe it’s tampering.

Kristen Knapp (16:56)
Yeah.

AJ Exner (17:18)
tampering the heightenedness, investing, it costs money. And in lot of instances, it costs a lot of money and people, their livelihoods are oftentimes at stake. And so sometimes we’re also therapists and saying, hey, it’s gonna be okay. We’re gonna get this done. Trust your guys, stay the course. And it’s even sniffing out unrealistic expectations where it’s, hey, I had a client in California last month who, hey, this guy’s offering me this. We were halfway through the process. We already had an appraisal back.

And he goes, well, this guy says he can do this. I looked at it. said, show me the numbers. I looked into it. was like, this doesn’t exist right now in this market. This doesn’t exist. He was like, well, he says he could. People say a lot of things. And he ran off, came back two weeks later and said, yeah, it didn’t happen. The numbers started changing. I was like, yeah, that makes sense. And so we closed him, got him a great rate on a rehab that he had just finished. And so it’s, it is, it really does help and it helps us to be better partners.

Kristen Knapp (17:56)
Thank

Yeah, you guys seem like you are straight shooters and not trying to do any funny business. You’re just going by the data and the market. Yeah.

AJ Exner (18:20)
Yep, wild transparency. It’s really one of our

core values. I would argue it’s almost cost me a few deals, you know, when you tell somebody like, hey, appraisal came back, lender’s getting kind of squirrely and the rate or the leverage might drop. Well, I gotta find something else. Yeah, we’re gonna work on it. We’re gonna get you an exception because this is your basis for it. And then, you know, 24 hours later, as they’re scrambling, you come with the solution and they go, I talked to two other people. It’s like, well, don’t worry about it. We got the solution. Here it is. And it is what it is.

Kristen Knapp (18:25)
Yes.

Yeah, and what would you say to people who are a little hesitant with the current market or unsure? What is your perspective on everything?

AJ Exner (18:54)
Do you want candid or professional answer?

Kristen Knapp (18:57)
Let’s get candid.

AJ Exner (18:59)
Candid,

good, more deals for me. I mean, honestly, the market is still good for investors. People are timid, not just as ⁓ like entry level investors, but also as first time home buyers. We’ve got some young guys here in the office that they’re trying to buy their first home. like, these rates are high or these prices are this or that. And it’s like, all right, like there’s still plenty of opportunities out there. so sometimes it’s about…

figuring out what you wanna do, what your buy box is, and then like, all right, I wanna stick to this, or what does it look like for me to do this? And sometimes the answer I have to give people is get some more money. Like, hey, you don’t wanna, you know, it’s like, hey, I’m strapped for cash, I’m giving everything I’ve got to make this deal happen. And it’s like, okay, how much do you have left? Nothing. Okay, so you’re literally doing everything. Yes. Okay, don’t do that. Like, you wanna be wise, you don’t, you know, these…

Anybody who spent some time investing can see how deals get sideways quickly. And you want to have, you know, expectations of yourself of like, Hey, what am I capable of? And including like the funding wise and maybe your first deal is wholesaling. You know, like I’ve, work, we work with a lot of wholesalers. I’m good friends with a few and like some of them are young, right out of college guys. They’re on the grind and earning that money so that they can invest on their own. And it’s just.

It is like it’s challenging, but it’s going to reward the people who are willing to take risks. I lovingly have some clients who are good, soft to the earth people, but they’re just lovable goofballs who have stumbled their way into real estate empires without even realizing it. So it’s very possible being diligent, being willing to say yes at times is going to be the biggest difference.

Kristen Knapp (20:39)
Definitely, and I think people are probably in a, it’s just kind of the climate of the market right now where people are waiting and waiting and they’re waiting for it to get to a better place and sometimes that is really slow to happen.

AJ Exner (20:53)
And most of the times it is. And so it’s again like I bought my first investment and my interest rate was eight and it was a buy and hold. Like it was just a you know, but I ran through the numbers. I looked at it at eight percent. I said, OK, I think I can get I knew my area well. So that was my that’s my market advantage is I know my market very well, especially here in Springfield, Missouri. So I looked and looked. I saw the area. I saw that it was a three bedroom. And I was like, man, I think I can get this rent out of a three bedroom in this area.

And so I jumped on it. was just an MLS listing. wasn’t through, you know, a wholesaler or anything like that. It just a recently rehabbed three bedroom in a really good part of town by the university. And I was like, I can get good rent out of this. I know it. And so it was. We had some money set aside. We were ready to pull the trigger, waiting for the right opportunity. And we did. And it was scary. I had to learn some things the hard way.

but I’ve got a great tenant in there. We actually had some power outages here in the Midwest during this. We’ve had a really wild spring, a lot of like wind and storms and power outages. And so it’s like, I’m able to text him and, you know, kind of build at least a somewhat of a relationship, try to keep, try to keep a safe distance, relationally, professionally, but also like, I texted him, I’m like, hey man, you doing okay? Do you have power? What’s good? Do you need anything? Like, do you need some water? You know, and helping each other out, you know, and trying to be a good, good.

landlord on my end and take care of my properties and my people.

Kristen Knapp (22:16)
that’s amazing. Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of opportunity out there and yeah, you’ve navigated yourself really well through it. So what’s next for you?

AJ Exner (22:24)
honestly just kind of keep going. I’ve worked in a lot of different settings, in private and public spaces, and I can genuinely say this is the best place I’ve ever worked. I try to remind, I’m probably one of the more senior account executives, not by experience, but just by age, natural seasoning in that sense. And so I’ve got some young guys that, I don’t this is their first job, but they’ve done some sales jobs, they’re kind of…

Kristen Knapp (22:33)
Nah.

AJ Exner (22:47)
you know, here and there, and especially early on, trying to build your kind of Rolodex, your portfolio of business. And there’s fear, there’s ⁓ trepidation on their end as salespeople. And it’s encouraging them to say, hey, like sometimes it’s about the environment and the people you work with. And, you know, this is just a great place to work. And then being able to invest on my own. Like I did not grow up in a house that, you if something went wrong, we called somebody to fix it. And so we are not.

Kristen Knapp (23:13)
Yeah.

AJ Exner (23:14)
a very handy family growing up, but it’s been really fun to like, for me, YouTube is my friend. And so it’s been really fun. My last rehab project, I did a lot of drywall work and I learned a lot of skills and it was nice to work on it when it wasn’t my house. So that when I finished the rehab in May, we finally got tenants moved in in June and I think my basement flooded end of May. So we had a bunch of mitigators, you know, rip out.

Kristen Knapp (23:20)
Yes.

AJ Exner (23:41)
two feet of drywall all the way around our house. And so I went and picked up some drywall and I said, you know what? I’m gonna save some money. I’m gonna do this myself. And it’s been fun to kind of take those skills and apply it for my own life, whether it’s via work, home or homework, like it all is kind of blending together right now.

Kristen Knapp (23:52)
Yeah.

Yeah, definitely new challenges every day, I’m sure.

AJ Exner (24:01)
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

Kristen Knapp (24:03)
Well, that’s amazing. Thank you so much for doing this. It was so interesting to hear how you got into this business. mean, loan bid seems awesome. How can people work with you?

AJ Exner (24:11)
Yeah, honestly, as simple as it sounds, give me a call. If you’re looking to invest, you’ve got some projects you’re looking to refinance and you’re like, my local banks, like they’re getting kind of weird. They’re doing some funny things. know, DSCR loan is meant for the investor. It’s meant to be simple. It’s meant to be straightforward. Not worried about tax returns or W-2s. So, you know, if you’re looking for a refinance, just give me a call. It’s okay if I share my number with you now. Great. Yeah. My direct line is 417.

Kristen Knapp (24:34)
Yeah, please.

AJ Exner (24:39)
427-2612. So give me a call, me an email. ⁓ Email is just AJ, the two letters at loanbidz.com and that’s B-I-D-Z. Yeah, give me a call, shoot me an email, even if it’s just like, hey, I’m looking to get started. What do I need? You know, we’re about that. And then I think I’ve been told by my higher ups that I need to do better at Instagram. So working on that too right now, trying to.

Kristen Knapp (25:04)
Yeah.

AJ Exner (25:07)
just show our renovation, show our journey. I’ve got two little boys, let’s see here, nine and four, all of my wife. And we renovated that house together. It’s actually, the house we renovated was right across the street from our primary house. so, yeah, so we’re able to do that, our journey as well. And so we just love to connect with anybody who’s looking or just wants to meet somebody new.

Kristen Knapp (25:30)
Amazing. Well, I encourage everyone to please check that out. It’s really great to have your number. So everybody please, if you’re looking to borrow, AJ’s your guy. Well, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it.

AJ Exner (25:40)
Absolutely.

Thank you, Kristen. I appreciate the time.

Kristen Knapp (25:45)
And then everyone, thank you for listening and we’ll see you back next time. Bye.