Creative Real Estate Lending Strategies With Jules Wrubel

Michelle Kesil (01:31)
Hey everyone, welcome to the Investor Fuel podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Kesil. And today I’m joined by someone I’ve been looking forward to chatting with. We have Jules Wrubel, who’s been making serious moves in the lending space. Jules, so glad to have you here with us today. I think our listeners are really going to take something away from how you’re approaching your private lending.

And yeah, I’m really excited to dive in with you.

Jules Wrubel (02:02)
Me too. Thanks, Michelle.

Michelle Kesil (02:03)
So first off, for those who may not be familiar with your world and your business, can you give the short version? What is your main focus these days?

Jules Wrubel (02:13)
We loan money to real estate fix and flippers, primarily real estate investors looking to improve properties in Arizona. So we loan them money. Yes.

Michelle Kesil (02:24)
Awesome.

That’s so important. Yes. So what caught my attention about you is, yeah, the way that you’ve been able to really create new opportunities, have a lot of deals made. I know we chatted a little bit about that before, but is that something that you can expand on for those who have not heard your story?

Jules Wrubel (02:47)
Yeah, you bet. ⁓ I got into this business specifically because a guy came through the door in a Porsche with a little doggie and he had lots of money, but he had no cash. And I was brand new in the mortgage industry and I just raised my hand and I’m like, it sounds interesting, I’ll do it, which in a way was foolish. But I share that because ⁓ it’s really

we do is help real estate investors when they need money now.

And we’re different from the other companies who are all great. There’s a lot of good companies out there. But we really serve a very specific niche. So maybe a builder ran out of capital and their job is almost done. Or they want to buy a house, they have the first loan, but they don’t have what we call gap funding. So we’re considered a gap lender, second position. And probably because, frankly, I’m a little quirky, I like quirky deals.

That’s bottom line. So it ended up helping a lot of people who were good people with great ideas and just couldn’t find the money. So that combination of things, as long as it’s attached to real estate. We’ll look at anything. Absolutely anything. Yeah.

Michelle Kesil (03:54)
Yeah, I love that you just mentioned a quirky deal. Can you share an example of that?

Jules Wrubel (03:58)
Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ We’re doing a deal right now where we had made a loan to somebody on a different property. They have a business of group homes like senior living or kids and they have an opportunity to buy this house but they don’t have the capital right now. So, but we understand how to make sure our money is secure.

So even though we’re gonna be in second position, we’re gonna basically own the house. He’s gonna make our payment. He’ll then have an option to buy that house in a year, because that’s what he really wants to do and we wanna support him in that. So that’s a quirky deal. It’s called Subject 2. It’s a creative finance deal. He’ll do well. He’ll lock in a price. We’ll do well. And he’s helping like 18 kids who have no home.

have a better life. So that’s like a quirky deal with a social good.

Michelle Kesil (05:40)
I love that, that’s super powerful. And yeah, I really enjoy the social good piece. Is that something that you’re really catering to with your clients?

Jules Wrubel (05:46)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. mean, like, you know, when someone renovates a house, they’re literally changing the neighborhood. So a lot of fix-and-flippers are in neighborhoods that don’t get a lot of attention because the values are better, but they’re literally changing the neighborhoods for the better. And hey, I’m fine with people doing their $10 million homes. That’s great too. But it’s really cool when you literally know that one house and then they do the next house, like, is changing a neighborhood. pretty, it’s really, it’s inspiring. Yeah.

Michelle Kesil (06:16)
Yeah, that’s

super inspiring. So let me ask you this, what has been the key to keeping the business running smoothly?

Jules Wrubel (06:18)
Yeah.

That’s a funny question. ⁓ The key has been, well, two things actually. So one is I intentionally kept it pretty modest in size because I wanted to, I’m not suggesting anybody does this. I’m the kind of person, I like to make all the mistakes first. Slows things down, but I’ve kept things kind of slow. And then I hit a point where I’m like, okay, I really, these pieces are all together now.

And keeping it smoothly, I had to hire somebody. I hired an integrator who understands systems, who can take the creativity and put it in a format that is shareable and understandable and explainable to more than just a handful of people. So keeping these running smoothly is great people. Surround yourself with great people. And I’m so grateful for that. Yeah, that’s the key.

Michelle Kesil (07:16)
That’s very true. ⁓ Now, every operator I know had a moment where things got real, maybe a deal went sideways, or you just had to pivot fast. Could you share a moment like that for you?

Jules Wrubel (07:32)
Yeah, I’d say… ⁓

always green and growing. ⁓ So my key person will tell you I usually forget about half the stuff I created. So I’m gonna answer your question like this. The friendly term is concerned, but I would say I stay highly paranoid about every deal. So I’ll give you an example. I have one going on right now.

where I found out that the person in second position is going to foreclose.

But I had forgotten that I was in first position. I forgot, I didn’t have great notes. And so I’m like freaking out that I have like $126,000 at risk. So, you you’re like, that’s uncomfortable. Like it’s really, really uncomfortable because the number one rule is don’t lose money.

Michelle Kesil (08:24)
You

Jules Wrubel (08:31)
Maybe you don’t make all your return, but don’t lose money. So that’s been really scary.

And a lot of people don’t realize how stressed out I am because it’s part of my job. So I got the title company involved. I remembered what was going on with the deal that I wrote, because I wrote it. When I did the deal, I was extremely mindful, extremely paranoid.

but then I moved on. So that’s the kind of thing, like, I now am coaching the borrower on how to speak to this other person to hopefully enroll them and like, look, I screwed, this isn’t me. Admitting like, I screwed up and how can I make it right? And in that particular case, I’m actually from New York, they came at the seller as like a New Yorker, I’m like, that’s not gonna work. Like, you didn’t pay.

Of course he’s upset. Of course he has the right to foreclose. You didn’t pay. I would call up and be like, look, I’m sorry. You, Mr. Seller, said you were gonna foreclose on me. I got scared. I stopped making payments. Why would I put good payments after bad? You need to go and say you’re sorry and try to create a dialogue, right? So that’s one deal.

Another deal is… ⁓

I’m in second position in a lot of money and the market turned. So like there’s no loss and I actually have a contract waiting for me to sign it, which we would do a seller carry back, but that didn’t go as planned. you’d think it’s in like Sedona. Everybody wants to go to Sedona, but they don’t, right? It’s on four service. It’s an Airbnb ready to go.

So that’s, now these are all gonna get resolved, but you can tell, I’m anxious because it’s actually not for me and my own safety that I’m anxious. It’s for my investors. That’s, to me, is the key, is it’s not my money, it’s their money. I’m gonna do my best, communicate like crazy with them. But those are two things that are happening right now. Like, they were not in the playbook. They were unplanned.

and I could go on and on about them because there’s so many little details. I lived in Sedona for 20 years. I know that market, but gosh, it’s turned so fast. And all the realtors are like, hey, yeah, if that property was Airbnb, then we would have buyers up and down the street. I’m like, yeah, but this one is, there’s, how come the agents aren’t knocking on my door?

So ⁓ I’ve gone out through Facebook and Instagram and all these other sites, right? And what’s the, it’s really about the solutions, right? Underwriting is about being paranoid and what can go wrong and trying to figure out everything that can go wrong. And even if you use AI, you’re going to miss one. And then when it goes bad or sideways, then it’s all about being in communication and figuring out solutions. And just owning, that’s part of the deal. It’s,

It doesn’t always go well. It goes well way more than it doesn’t, by the way, like 96.5%. But when it doesn’t go well, it seems like it’s always a surprise. So don’t shut down. You got to stay open. You got to stay in communication. But yeah, those are happening right now. Yeah. Yeah. They don’t talk about it. And I…

Michelle Kesil (12:14)
Yeah, that’s the kind of stuff people don’t talk about enough.

Jules Wrubel (12:19)
you can ask me any question like that, I’ll talk about it, because it is where you get better. And the number one thing I’m hearing this week from a lot of people is, you know, I did have a deal that went bad, but if they had just talked to me about it, I wouldn’t be upset. But what happens is people don’t, they disappear, and so the investors then left with like, they were a crook, they stole my money, you know, what happened. And really it could have just been like the deal went bad and I was afraid to tell you.

If people would just do that, those same investors would probably invest with them again. But it’s the hiding and the disappearing that’s the worst thing anybody can do and it’s the most natural thing. Who wants to look bad? I don’t. Ugh, hurts. But I’ve decided that that’s the only way I’m gonna roll. Even if it hurts, Band-Aid’s coming off.

Michelle Kesil (13:09)
Yeah, and I mean, in the long term, it’s going to support you more, to be honest, to communicate. short term versus long term.

Jules Wrubel (13:16)
Yeah.

Totally, totally. Yeah. And then what does it do to you as a person? Like, and it’s not that I’m perfect, right? But it’s like, you can’t sleep at night, right? It just, you, mm, doesn’t go well. Yeah.

Michelle Kesil (13:29)
Yeah.

So let me ask you this. What are you most focused on solving or scaling next?

Jules Wrubel (13:36)
100 % raising capital. We have the deal flow, we have the systems, we have our business plan, ⁓ we know where we’re going, we know who we’re serving, we know what our message is. It’s really like our message is about having some confidence with income. And so it’s really about sharing the message like…

whether you have a job or no job, whether you are a multimillionaire or not, whether you have an IRA or not, it’s like, what do we all really fundamentally want? And by the way, I’d love to hear a different opinion about this, but like, we just kind of like that check in the mail, if you will, we want confidence. We want able to breathe, right? We want peace of mind. And like, let’s face it, having a regular paycheck.

helps.

So how can we provide that for people who maybe they already have a career they love but their IRA is not doing as well as they want it to or they are worried about losing their job. So how can you start going because literally even if it’s 50 bucks a month, maybe it’s 10 bucks a month, but subconsciously when we know that

regularity to that, there’s that consistency, it’s like

Right, like I’m naturally amped as a human being, but like, I just want my money to be boring. So our message is like, maybe you have a great, you know, stocks and bonds, maybe you have rental property, but maybe it’s a good idea to diversify into some consistently higher than average, boringly like 10 or 12 % checks in the mail.

So that’s really our message is about confidence and frankly about confidence and peace of mind. Our vehicle is investing in real estate. Yeah, so that’s what we’re up to sharing. It’s all about sharing the message and raising capital so we can fulfill on the deals that we have that just keep coming in. Yeah.

Michelle Kesil (16:03)
important. And what is that next real goal for you?

Jules Wrubel (16:04)
Yeah.

financially or in what area of life?

Michelle Kesil (16:12)
just yeah business wise.

Jules Wrubel (16:14)
Yeah, a $25 million fund is the name of it really and it’s everything I’ve been talking about and everything I’ve been doing for all these years is just being able to serve more people ⁓ and more profit means more opportunity.

So it’s the joy of the sandbox of building the business. And the only way to do that is to serve people, right, in that sandbox. So it really is, it’s growing the capital base so we can help more people. And when we’re helping investors, we’re helping borrowers. And when borrowers are making their payments, that’s helping the investors. And so it really is like a virtuous circle. Not perfect, obviously, but yeah. Yeah, it’s grown the fund. Yeah.

Michelle Kesil (16:58)
Yeah,

that’s big.

Jules Wrubel (17:00)
Yeah, we can do it. Yeah.

Michelle Kesil (17:01)
You can do it, totally.

Now, I know a lot of people that listen to this are either earlier in their journey or they’re just looking to level up. And I think they could benefit from hearing this when it comes to building relationships or growing your network. What has made the biggest difference for you?

Jules Wrubel (17:12)
Yeah.

I love this question. This is such a great question because it really boils down to stay humble. Be curious. Don’t act like you know everything. I don’t. I have investors who are worth $50, $100 million. What sets them apart from most of the people I talk to is they’re like, don’t really understand what you just said. Could you tell me more about that?

Gosh, I’m really curious about this. They don’t need the money. They’ve already quote unquote made it. Why are they still, it’s that curiosity is the key. So stay curious, stay humble, right? ⁓ Contribute, like when you have something to say, say it, like don’t hide out. Because the other thing is, it’s funny, right? Stay humble, be curious, but you have an opinion and your opinion matters.

Everybody wants to hear you because your idea could be the next best idea. And you’re like, well, nobody wants to hear that. I shouldn’t say anything. So it’s just a bit of a dance, right? Be curious, stay humble, and also share who you are, definitely. Yeah.

Michelle Kesil (18:25)
Yeah, and as far as like growing your network, what has been supportive for you?

Jules Wrubel (18:30)
There’s no trick. You gotta show up. Show up on the virtual events, show up in the in-person events. Show up, show up, show up, show up, show up, keep showing up, just keep showing up. Show up, show up, show up. That’s the only way to do it. Yep, yep. They are, they’re everything. And I think they’ll become more important because of AI.

Michelle Kesil (18:45)
⁓ Yeah, relationships are everything.

Yeah.

Jules Wrubel (18:54)
Right?

Because that personal connection is even more important. So, and you can create great relationships through Zoom and other, you know, things like that, but do all of it. Yeah. Show up.

Michelle Kesil (19:05)
Yeah,

that’s really important.

Jules Wrubel (19:07)
Yeah.

Note to self. I’m an introvert. I don’t like going out. I still show up. ⁓

Michelle Kesil (19:16)
Yeah, it’s part of the job.

Jules Wrubel (19:18)
It’s part of the job, yeah. And it’s also part of vitality, right? Because it’s like, we all get stale, you know, no matter, even if we’re an extrovert, we get stale. And so it is those interactions that, you know, add to the vitality and the wisdom and the relationships and the connections and the opportunities and all of it.

Michelle Kesil (19:30)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Do you feel that this is how your opportunities have grown?

Jules Wrubel (19:39)
For sure. I’ve gone to workshops. At some point you’re gonna have to pay money. You just have to pay money. You can get all this information for free online, but at some point you gotta pay money because the reality is when you have skin in the game, you’re more likely to take action. So ⁓ I still pay for coaching and I go to workshops and… ⁓

you know, hang out in rooms where people are quote unquote better than you. They may not be a better human being, right? But they may know more than you do about the topic. Go to things that aren’t necessarily directly related to your subject matter. be somebody who is like, I’ve been to Japan. I’ve been here, I’ve been there, I’ve been all over the country. my gosh, like those create relationships and connections and opportunities for.

going out to dinner, going golfing that sure it might be business related but maybe you just met somebody you want to go kayaking with, right? So be curious, get out, pay for stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Michelle Kesil (20:42)
Yeah,

that’s super valuable, definitely. All right, so before we wrap up, if someone wanted to reach out to you, connect with you, maybe just collaborate or learn more, what’s the best way for them to reach you?

Jules Wrubel (20:44)
Yeah, cool.

Sure.

best way to reach me is my phone number which is 480-868-7703 and I’ll repeat it. 480-868-7703. However, my integrator, my systems guy will not be that happy about that, right? So what we really want you to do is go to lendmoneymakemoney.com.

LendMoneyMakeMoney.com, even if you’re a borrower, and just push the Contact Us button and I’ll get ahold of you, but that way it’ll be in the system. Yes, that’s right, Michelle, so yes. So please do that, preferably, but otherwise, I got you on my phone.

Michelle Kesil (21:31)
Yes, love that implementation.

Perfect. Well, listen, I really appreciate your time, your story and your perspective. We need more people in this space out here doing things in this right way. So thank you so much for being here.

Jules Wrubel (21:42)
Yeah.

Thank you, Michelle. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot. ⁓

Michelle Kesil (21:54)
Yeah, of course.

And for those of you tuning in, if you’ve got value from this, make sure you’re subscribed. We’ve got more conversations coming with operators just like Jules, who are out here building real businesses. And we’re going to see you all in the next episode.