Creative Commercial Real Estate Deals, Global Inspiration & Building New Concepts

Dylan Silver (00:01.442)
Hey folks, welcome back to the show. Today’s guest is the founder and managing principal of Abstract Commercial Real Estate, a boutique firm in downtown Madison, Wisconsin. With over 40 years in the area, she’s built strong relationships that lead to pocket listings and successful deals in any market. Please welcome Heather Ewing. Heather, welcome to the show.

Heather Ewing, CCIM (00:24.33)
Thanks Dylan, thanks for having me on today.

Dylan Silver (00:26.774)
It’s great to have you on. I always like to start off at the top by asking folks how they got into the real estate space.

Heather Ewing, CCIM (00:34.88)
I always say people are either on the straight path or they’re on the winding and I was definitely the latter. I ended up spending 11 years in operations management with two business degrees and just found myself very empty inside. And I had a really bad car accident which made me step back and really think about life of who am I, what am I, what do I want to do and that led me to a series of different entrepreneurial

pursuits, which in 2010 I got into real estate and then 2014 commercial.

Dylan Silver (01:12.312)
Did you know when you got into real estate that you wanted to head towards commercial or did that come about as a progression?

Heather Ewing, CCIM (01:19.114)
came about as progression. was originally, I had an art studio and I was just working part time at a local shop in the downtown. And as time went, I realized I would, would not be suited for residential. And for me, commercial, just love that it was grand. was large, it was big, it was business. I didn’t want to get stuck in the interpersonal relationship type things. I wanted to focus on the business end of it. And again, I see these large properties as

Dylan Silver (01:43.47)
Sure.

Heather Ewing, CCIM (01:49.239)
art. So that’s what really led me to commercial.

Dylan Silver (01:53.6)
It’s also two different flows and mindsets, right? Because when you have residential, you have to typically do a lot of transactions typically. And when you have commercial, you can do one deal a year. And if it’s a big deal, it’s a big deal, right? mean, even less than that, right? Depending on what’s going on. And so it’s two different mentalities, two different flows. What was your first year or two in the commercial space like?

Heather Ewing, CCIM (02:17.493)
ring.

Heather Ewing, CCIM (02:21.344)
first year was about $500. And that’s not uncommon. And that’s where too a lot of times bridging the gap, there’s a lot of people that are interested in shifting from residential to commercial. And something that’s really important in that is have a great mentor, have a great coach, know that the deal timeframes are much longer, you’re going to make a lot more. But also at the same time,

they can explode at the last minute just like any other deal. So it’s making sure that you’re well-funded for it and that you’re guided because otherwise it’s a recipe for a really painful experience.

Dylan Silver (02:49.667)
Ryan.

Dylan Silver (03:00.792)
Do you remember that first commercial deal that you did?

Heather Ewing, CCIM (03:03.794)
I do. Yes, he was a trainer and in Middleton, Wisconsin, he’s grown. So that’s really exciting too. And I think why it really took me, you know, in awe was that he was really young. He was 23, but he was so put together. He was clear. He had his business statement. He had his funding extremely well organized and actually in fact, more than a lot of adults that I’ve encountered. But with that, he just was a great person.

was passionate about what he did and it’s no wonder why he’s been such a success, which is really exciting.

Dylan Silver (03:39.404)
What was his business? He’s mentioned trainer. Was he involved in training and facilities? Okay.

Heather Ewing, CCIM (03:44.062)
Strength training. Yep, so fitness, which of course was near and dear to my heart.

Dylan Silver (03:50.764)
You mentioned before hopping on here, you’re a big marathon runner.

Heather Ewing, CCIM (03:54.527)
Yes, that’s where you know I see the bridge between marathoning around the world with commercial real estate. Both have a long term time fence. Both require a clear plan. You also need the consistency and the discipline and you have to choose in every moment that this is what you want because you want to push harder versus coasting.

Dylan Silver (03:56.482)
how long

Dylan Silver (04:06.668)
Yeah.

Dylan Silver (04:19.478)
any favorite places that you’ve run at.

Heather Ewing, CCIM (04:23.476)
That’s a tough one. There’s a lot of beautiful countries. I was just in Milan, but I’ve also ran Berlin, London, Paris, Tokyo will be happening in another two years, but also Boston.

Dylan Silver (04:38.274)
What’s it like running a marathon in Milan?

Heather Ewing, CCIM (04:41.124)
you know, card loading is the best. But it’s just a beautiful country. You learn so much about the region. Of course, I love snapping photos of the different retail, how they lay things out and these different ideas I bring back to the states for different developments that I work on.

Dylan Silver (04:54.413)
Yeah.

Dylan Silver (05:00.718)
I’m curious to get your perspective on having an international perspective. So having that kind of international influence and as someone who’s traveled a lot and I like to travel, I tend to think that traveling is some of the best investment that people can make in their self growth for so many reasons. What’s your perspective on travel in general?

Heather Ewing, CCIM (05:18.484)
Definitely.

couldn’t agree more. think it’s really important to get out of our comfort zone. And with that, it’s an adventure. So I always say anything you’re doing in life, there should be a little hesitation, but also excitement because if you’re in the comfort zone, you’re not growing. And again, if you’re in commercial real estate, you need to keep advancing and taking those calculated risks and traveling around the world. Again, you meet great people. stay in touch with different people. Of course, shopping is great.

and just really taking in the culture. It expands you in so many different ways, more than you realize.

Dylan Silver (05:52.108)
That’s for sure.

Dylan Silver (05:58.124)
I want to also ask you about the food, right? So all these different places have their own unique food. How would you compare our American cuisine to some of these foods around the world?

Heather Ewing, CCIM (06:09.28)
It doesn’t compare in my opinion. No, no, I think it’s the quality of the food and I also think that, you know, when you’re in the backdrop.

Dylan Silver (06:11.542)
It doesn’t compare,

Heather Ewing, CCIM (06:22.74)
of like one of the oldest opera houses of the world. There’s just something that even if it’s the same chef probably in the U.S. with a different food source like you just it’s the full experience that really brings it to that 20 out of 10.

Dylan Silver (06:40.268)
And any favorite foods that you’ve eaten or food groups in the world, if you had to say, if I had this as the meal, I’m going here.

Heather Ewing, CCIM (06:50.48)
It really depends on the day, right? Because sometimes you want to try some of those unique sauces or a different type of cuisine that you just have never had in other days. Maybe it’s something as simple as a unique soup or a salad, but of course a dessert here and there and you can’t go wrong with truffles.

Dylan Silver (07:12.896)
You can’t go wrong. grew up in a heavily Italian American town in northern New Jersey. So when I left that town and realized not all of America was, you know, Roman Catholic and had super, you know, long multi syllable names, I said, well, this is an interesting thing. And ever since leaving that I’m in Dallas right now, I tell people the thing I miss the most about northern New Jersey is in many cases, Italian American culture and food. And I mean, I’m in

Dallas and Olive Garden is considered like something that people wait for long line for. So I definitely miss that. But I do want to pivot a bit here, Heather, and ask you about new concepts in commercial. I know that’s what you’re heavily involved in. And this is an area which is interesting to me, although I have no experience in this. But how did the business scale from starting out in commercial doing that first deal to where it is today?

Heather Ewing, CCIM (08:09.706)
Definitely. So I had about six years in commercial before I started my own firm and I started at the beginning of 2020. So as you can imagine, that was quite wild. And what I did since I had a solid reputation in the retail restaurant mixed use arena is I plastered my picture on my branding everywhere because I figured that’s the quickest way to draw the connection between Heather Ewing and abstract commercial real estate. And with that, because I am a really creative

I think that commercial real estate if you have the knowledge and you have the deal experience it is really a perfect recipe for being yourself of really bringing all of your other skills forward and artistry is one of mine and so with that I tend to attract a lot of fitness a lot of creative users and some of the new concepts that I’ve brought to Madison are one for example is sonniday and the really neat thing about that

is that they’ve traveled the world and have experienced these different bath houses which are common in Europe, not in the United States. And so they’ve really brought that holistic measure here. Beautiful build out, you’ve got the cold plunges, the sauna, it’s really about a nurturing essence. And it’s not like a spa where you’re going to spend 200 plus on a service. It’s geared around the every week experience. And that’s really

a discerning point as well with it. Another concept that I brought into was the Guild and they’re right in the downtown core of Madison and with that it’s over a hundred monitors. They have the large platforms where you can game across the world. So it’s really collaborating bringing that and also bringing the ethnic street food to downtown Madison. And then there’s others such as an investor that I’m working with in California and others but it’s really

Dylan Silver (09:41.868)
Yeah.

Heather Ewing, CCIM (10:09.416)
beautiful way to combine artful, unique concepts to fuel the community and give them something new.

Dylan Silver (10:16.782)
That’s how people make areas destinations, right? People start coming from outside because where else are you gonna find a hundred monitors or this concept, you know, holistic well-being, right? That is cost-effective as well. I think when I’m talking about these areas, what comes to mind for me is this idea of it’s not just, you know, dollars and X’s and O’s in logistics. It’s really about creative planning.

and having an eye for that as well. And you you can maybe go to school for some of that, but also some of that is truly a passion project, right?

Heather Ewing, CCIM (10:51.2)
Well, and if you think about it too, we all have inherent gifts, right? I think having that earlier life-altering car accident really helped me in my 20s to take a step back and survey the field of what do I really want and I think it’s understanding where you’re strong and where you’re not.

and tailoring your career with that. And I think with anything you need to go 200%. Commercial is a very competitive arena. And it’s one of those, that’s why I like the marathoning because life is mindset.

Dylan Silver (11:17.859)
Yeah.

Heather Ewing, CCIM (11:24.178)
And if you don’t have the right mindset, especially in commercial, you’re going to burn and it’s, you’re going to drop out of the race. And so with the creativity, that also is how I negotiate different deal structures because you’ll have a lot of different personalities. So you’re maintaining the energy of the deal, but also helping them to see why they want to come to terms on things. Sometimes diffusing one, you know, increasing another to put it all together.

So it’s one large canvas that you paint on through these different stages of the deal, managing the energy, inserting different ways to shift the focus, eye on the prize, and to bring it across the finish line.

Dylan Silver (12:10.168)
There’s a lot that goes into that. know there’s a lot that goes into it on a residential new build or building out a subdivision or a fix and flip, right? And I’ve dealt with many instances where someone can’t get their hard money loan or there needs to be an additional inspection appraisal, so on and so forth. And you think everything’s lined up. I can only imagine that that’s 20 X on a commercial deal. And it’s just that much more challenging. But at the same point in time, I think

It’s challenging no matter what, right? So if it’s gonna be hard one way and people have an inclination or a passion towards maybe the commercial realm and they can weather the duration, I think it’s definitely something that people can get into. And I think being a newly licensed agent myself and seeing a lot of people talk about commercial, a lot of people say, I wanna get into commercial, I wanna get into commercial, or how do I get into commercial? What would be your advice to those folks?

Heather Ewing, CCIM (13:07.904)
Part of it is really knowing thyself, right? I would be curious, why do you want to get into it? Typically what I notice is that residential and commercial are two very different animals. And some people love…

residential, they’d never want to cross the bridge. And just like, I would never want to do a residential deal. I would refer that to someone else. But I think it’s really understanding why do they want it? Because sometimes you always hear about the sexiness, right? It’s the you’re seeing you have these bigger deals. Maybe you’re mentioned in the paper, you’re speaking on stages, you’re doing these different things. But I think it’s really talking to people in the different asset classes, understanding what is the plus, what is the

And I think a lot of it too then is educating yourself and if you’re going to do it, it 200 percent, but you can’t be on one day, off the next day, on, off, on, off. And that’s where I’ve seen, you know, when you ask someone, are you in a position where if you don’t get paid for a year, maybe a year and a half, are you okay?

If you spend 14 months on a deal and it doesn’t happen at month 14, are you going to be able to handle that? You can’t, you can’t post.

Dylan Silver (14:19.862)
Most people are not going to be okay, right?

Dylan Silver (14:34.412)
Yeah, I mean that’s a real question, right?

Heather Ewing, CCIM (14:36.958)
You can’t, right? Like I always say, you get your post-mortem of 15 minutes and those ones take longer, but you can’t keep lingering on it. And what I’ve noticed is that people that do well in the arena, there’s a lot of hard questions up front and deals and a lot of choice points of really making sure that you have hard data, not just opinions and different things of that nature to help structure it through. But there’s no guarantees like.

I had worked on a deal the other year and it was around the 12-month mark and one of their investors had cancer and backed out.

Dylan Silver (15:14.69)
that’ll do it, right?

Heather Ewing, CCIM (15:16.584)
Right? You can’t control everything, with the other investors, we had the money down in all those different aspects. That was the last one. Right? So.

Dylan Silver (15:28.034)
These things come up, right? It’s so much problem solving. And then I think you brought up a great point, which is people want to do the commercial, but are you prepared to go 14 months without a check? Right? And how is that going to work for you? If the deal doesn’t go across the finish line, it can be heartbreaking. Right? And so I think these are the other side, you know, not to dissuade anybody, but it is the other side of, there’s, it’s not all, you know,

roses and rainbows. There’s a lot of obstacles and challenges. We are coming up on time here though, Heather. Where can folks go if they maybe want to reach out to you, get in contact with you, learn more about your business?

Heather Ewing, CCIM (16:08.596)
Definitely, I’m on LinkedIn, Heather Ewing, and you’ll see the little runner. And I agree, I think people should always explore things. It is a great arena.

if you can accept the upside and the downside. And what I would say is just make sure you come prepared with questions so that at least you’re aware of what you’re getting into, which might be a good fit. But for others, they’re like, gosh, if I would have known about this, this and this, I think I would have went over here. So it’s just making sure that you know the questions to ask so you can do your due diligence and make sure it lines up for you.

Dylan Silver (16:48.13)
Heather, thank you so much for coming on the show here today.

Heather Ewing, CCIM (16:52.648)
It was a true joy. Thanks for having me, Dylan.