Build Wealth with Other People’s Money

John Harcar (00:01.064)
Hey guys, welcome back to the show. I’m your host, John Harcar. And today we’re here with Cameron Philgreen and we’re going to talk about building wealth with OPM, other people’s money. Remember guys here at Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers, and really all real estate entrepreneurs, to 5X your business. And it’s really gathering the best resources and tools to help you grow the business you want to grow, scale it up, and live the life that you want to live. So Cameron, welcome to our show.

Cameron Philgreen (00:30.69)
Dude, thanks for having me, John. I’m super excited to be here. Thanks for having me on.

John Harcar (00:35.176)
Me too, man. And I’m super excited to talk about other people’s money. We all love to spend other people’s money. But before we get into that topic and get into the weeds on that stuff, tell our audience a little bit about yourself, kind of where you came from, what got you into the real estate, how you got here.

Cameron Philgreen (00:47.97)
Yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (00:52.79)
Yeah, so I grew up in Kansas City and did not know anything about, I’m a Chiefs fan, Born and raised like, and no way, man. Yeah, we should stop right now. Yeah, I mean, born and raised in Kansas City, Royals and Chiefs fan my whole life, even when we had losing records. You know, did not know anything about real estate, but…

John Harcar (00:56.276)
Don’t tell me you’re a Chiefs fan. I’m a Raider fan. I’m a Raider fan. I gotta go. Yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (01:17.102)
Went to KU, got connected with a church called Antioch there, found my wife shortly after, and we ended up moving down to Waco, Texas. We felt the Lord leading us to move here. And ever since moving here, we didn’t know what to expect. We’ve just been plugged into community here and all of our best friends are here now. I have three kids now and my life has changed dramatically in last six years. And went from, you know, two properties when we moved to Waco to now five years later, we have

John Harcar (01:32.052)
Mm.

Wow.

John Harcar (01:38.878)
God bless you.

Cameron Philgreen (01:45.71)
38 units and I don’t know something like 25 properties and kind of managing everything myself. You know, I’m kind of a one man show, kind of have an assistant also, but it’s been a wild journey. And my wife’s obviously incredibly helpful and but she’s like full-time mom, of course. So yeah, man. just yeah, much harder than my job. dude, it’s been great. We I just really believe in real estate investing and

John Harcar (01:47.409)
Wow.

John Harcar (02:00.788)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (02:04.902)
And that’s that’s a, that’s a harder job.

Cameron Philgreen (02:15.63)
I want to teach other people about it. you know, I have Instagram, you know, content that I put out. I’m kind of starting to ramp up the YouTube channel and I have a couple of courses about the Burr method, buy rehab, rent, refinance, repeat, and just love it, man. I just want other people to get into real estate investing and build wealth for their families. And so that’s kind of what brings me on this podcast also.

John Harcar (02:26.771)
Nice.

John Harcar (02:40.124)
So after you left Kansas City, although the Royals had Bo Jackson at one time, and he was a big rater. But anyways, so what did you do before you got into real estate? What was your occupation? What were you doing? I know you mentioned you were in school.

Cameron Philgreen (02:46.936)
Yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (02:55.246)
Yeah, so right after college, we’ll kind of put myself through college doing wedding photography and videography. And I mean, I was like working at a restaurant and doing weddings and kind of that gave me the self-employment, you know, bug, you could say, like really felt what it was like to wake up and kind of do my own thing and own my own stuff. So I’ve been self-employed for about the last 12 years and have shot almost 400 weddings. So

John Harcar (03:02.996)
Okay.

John Harcar (03:11.913)
Right.

Cameron Philgreen (03:24.152)
But now that real estate investing is picked up, now the weddings, they’re kind of slowing down. It’s just like, it’s not my passion anymore. I I still love shooting weddings. Like every time I get to, I absolutely love it. But I’ll make as much in a year as I’ll make it flipping two houses. And it takes very little time to flip a couple of houses if you do it right and if you buy it right. So that’s what I was doing before. then

John Harcar (03:43.198)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Cameron Philgreen (03:54.178)
sort of again have trickled out the weddings and trickled up, you could say, the real estate investing.

John Harcar (04:01.844)
Well, and that’s awesome that you that you learned, you know, you took away from that wedding stuff. I didn’t college that that business mentality, right? That, know, you don’t schedule it. You don’t work. You don’t eat, you know, in a sense, it’s it’s it’s you got to make sure that you’re yeah. So so you got you got down into Waco and what was your first type of deal? I mean, did you start wholesaling? Did you just go right into burr? I mean, what did you do?

Cameron Philgreen (04:09.731)
Yeah.

Yeah, so true. It’s a hustle.

Cameron Philgreen (04:27.586)
So we had read Rich Dad Poor Dad shortly before moving here and we were like, when we moved to Waco, let’s get as much house as we can for as little money as we can and like house hack and have roommates or Airbnb or whatever. So we did, we got a five bedroom, two bathroom house. We kind of fixed up the kitchen before we moved in. My wife and I are both, you know, we like to work with our hands. So we kind of did all the work ourselves, painted all the inside like.

John Harcar (04:54.685)
wow, okay.

Cameron Philgreen (04:55.576)
Redid the whole kitchen and bathroom and we did a lot of work on the house before we moved in. Took a couple trips down here. Anyway, and then we Airbnb’d all the rooms in the house. So we lived in one of the upstairs rooms and Airbnb’d the other three. And then we had a guest room downstairs. So that’s kind of what gave us the real estate investing bug. then we, shortly after buying that house, we did our first actual, know, BRRR investment property.

John Harcar (05:06.354)
Huh.

John Harcar (05:24.198)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron Philgreen (05:24.494)
in 2020, right before COVID and fixed up the whole house ourselves, went way too deep into it. Like it was a full, full gut, windows, siding, HVAC, insulation, like permits with the city, stuff that I had never done before. It was kind of a nightmare, but we did it in like, we rehabbed in like four months almost by ourselves and rented it out. And that was like, okay, we did it once. Now I think we can do it again, you know? And since then we’ve done.

John Harcar (05:37.908)
Mmm.

John Harcar (05:51.166)
Ha ha ha ha.

Cameron Philgreen (05:52.974)
I know, I’ve probably done 30 flips or burrs since 2020 and I’ve got it, you know, I got other people doing the work and I got other people’s money and I’m just trying to put the deal together. And I know that’s the direction you want to go. So we can talk about a little bit about that too. Yeah.

John Harcar (05:55.814)
on this.

John Harcar (06:05.434)
Nice. Just so all of our audience knows, some people might not. Explain what burr is, what the burr strategy is.

Cameron Philgreen (06:15.65)
Yeah, BRRR is my favorite because you get to hold a rental property and asset for a long time. Often it’s fixed up and you use other people’s money for it. You end up with zero of your own cash in the deal and you can hold this asset for five, 10 years. You get lots of tax benefits along the way and then you can sell for a good gain in 10, 20 years or whatever. But it’s buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat.

John Harcar (06:39.508)
Okay.

Cameron Philgreen (06:44.846)
you buy and the formula I use is ARV times 0.75 minus your rehab. And why 0.75? It’s because the banks will lend point like 75 % of the value of the house after it’s fixed up. So aim for 70 % or 75%. Subtract your rehab and that’s your purchase price. So if you purchase, you know, this house ARV is 200,000 needs 50,000 to work. We need to buy that house for a hundred.

John Harcar (06:57.364)
Right.

John Harcar (07:12.958)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron Philgreen (07:13.068)
buy the house for put 50 into it. Now it’s worth 200. The bank will send an appraiser out whenever you refinance it. And they’re going to say, this house is worth 200. And they’re going to give you a new loan for 150. And then you’ll pay off the hard money or the private money or OPM that you use to purchase and rehab the property. And so you have zero of your own cash in the deal. have $50,000 of equity and a cash flowing rental property. And that’s why I love the burn method. It’s great.

John Harcar (07:24.83)
Nice.

John Harcar (07:40.744)
How are you finding your properties? Are you buying it from wholesalers? Are you going out and buying leads at cold callers? What do you do?

Cameron Philgreen (07:48.526)
Good question. I mean, I do a little bit of direct to seller, a little bit from wholesalers, a little bit on market, believe it or not. I just got a great deal on market, just offering, you know, way under asking is usually what I’m doing or sub two. And, and yeah, as long as again, as long as the formula works, ARV, 75 % of that minus the rehab cost.

Like I’ll buy on market, wholesaler, direct to seller, it doesn’t matter. Obviously you can get a lot steeper discounts if you go direct to seller because you can actually talk to them, you can find out what their pain point is, you can help them, you know, yeah, yeah.

John Harcar (08:26.868)
Push on that a little bit, Okay, what’s your favorite? What would you like to do the best? On market, off market?

Cameron Philgreen (08:33.186)
And I haven’t like, I wouldn’t say I’ve cracked the code on direct to seller like some people have. Like I’ve hired VAs for cold calling. I’ve done some direct mail. I’ve done some door knocking. It’s like, I haven’t quite found what works for me. And so I’m, I’ll buy from wholesalers. I’m like, you guys do that. You know, I’ll buy from you. And, and as long as the deal works, it works. just haven’t cracked the code on the, door knocking hustle quite yet.

John Harcar (08:46.962)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (08:59.956)
Got it. Well, not many people like to do that door knocking hustle. Anyways Okay, so up until this time you moved to Waco. You’re started buying houses up until now. How many rents of properties do you have? Or how many properties do you have thought that you have on bird?

Cameron Philgreen (09:03.07)
Yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (09:12.44)
Man, we have, yeah, I have 38 units. I’m kind of in the middle of selling like four or five of them. So I’m kind of sitting on like holding about 30 units right now, which is, I think it’s like 22 properties. You know, some of them have multiple units. Yeah. I have two commercial units, soon to be.

John Harcar (09:26.804)
about 30 units.

John Harcar (09:33.585)
All single family or.

John Harcar (09:40.372)
Okay.

Cameron Philgreen (09:41.698)
I’m buying another one. There’ll be three commercial units. Some seem to be five, but, one of those, actually occupy with a coffee shop here called for keeps. So we occupy one of those commercial units, that I, I the commercial unit. And then the other one is rented out to a cigar lounge. Pretty cool. And, yeah. And I, so I have those two commercial units besides that all residential, this year, my goal is to hop into.

John Harcar (09:52.424)
We’ll talk about that, yeah.

John Harcar (09:59.956)
Yeah, that’s right next to a coffee shop for sure.

Cameron Philgreen (10:10.222)
Apartments, know 1224 unit apartment complex. I’m trying to pull in a partner for that. But So yeah, we might double our unit count this year. That’s our hope but we’ll see

John Harcar (10:14.216)
Wow, okay.

John Harcar (10:19.828)
That’s awesome. what okay now you were actually we’re up here. What is your business look like now? Like where are we at this day? mean, I know you mentioned you have 38 units kind of where you know, where are we steering the ship? Are you growing right now? Are you just kind of like, you know, like any one man show? I mean, what’s what’s going on in your business today?

Cameron Philgreen (10:39.072)
Yeah, good question. again, I’m really pulling in a part, a capital partner to get into some bigger apartment buildings this year and maybe some new dev. see. We’re talking on the weekly and trying to, we’re exploring, you know, how we’re going to find these deals and making some offers. So definitely that. And then, yeah, we’re going to start to build a team. I really have a great team of contractors. Like I got all my subs and kind of GCing stuff.

John Harcar (10:46.58)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (10:56.072)
Yep. Okay.

Cameron Philgreen (11:07.18)
And so it is a one man show you could say, but really not. my, yeah, mostly my wife and I, my wife and I, yeah, yeah. But.

John Harcar (11:07.239)
Okay.

But you keep saying we, who’s we? Yeah, you keep saying we’re going to, we’re going to talk to.

Okay, all right, yeah. Right on. Is she heavily involved in the business, I take it?

Cameron Philgreen (11:26.722)
I mean, run like every, any big decisions. Yeah. I definitely run by her for sure. She’s not like, she’s not like in the day to day like I am, but, but yeah, so we have like a team of contractors, but I don’t have like employees outside of, in the real estate business outside of the coffee shop. and what was your other question? I can’t remember. Where are we going?

John Harcar (11:31.476)
Cool.

Yep.

John Harcar (11:41.63)
Okay.

John Harcar (11:50.196)
Yeah, like kind of where do you see what’s kind of your path? What’s your trajectory, etc.

Cameron Philgreen (11:54.392)
Yeah. Yeah. So looking to hold on to get the apartments and hold onto those. then I, we really felt like this year let’s flip our hearts away. So instead of like flipping and then refinancing and holding onto property, we really feel led to just flip and sell and just like build up some capital this next couple of years. So that’s what I’m focused on. mean, our cashflow position’s good and we’re like, but we always feel a little bit cash poor because we.

John Harcar (12:07.08)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (12:14.845)
Okay.

Cameron Philgreen (12:23.832)
We’re always putting it into the next investment, the next real estate investment. You kind of start to feel uncomfortable holding onto cash, but that’s what we feel like we’re supposed to do. So we’re going to do that this next couple of years.

John Harcar (12:30.004)
Right.

John Harcar (12:35.814)
What do think have been some of the biggest challenges that you might have faced as a real estate investor or, you know, growing or getting your business and getting more units?

Cameron Philgreen (12:41.016)
Cameron Philgreen (12:44.366)
Bar none, I would say you don’t realize when you get into real estate investing how much of this business really is construction. And I mean, it depends on how your strategy and what you’re doing, but often if you’re doing value add real estate investing and you want to build equity quickly, you know, you’re not going to be buying turnkey properties at retail. need to buy properties that are distressed.

John Harcar (12:58.056)
Sure.

John Harcar (13:08.318)
Mmm.

Cameron Philgreen (13:13.752)
that are discount. Exactly. so often those property needs, those properties need some work and you end up being a construction person when you really didn’t sign up for that. You you signed up for the passive income, not the, not to run a construction site. Yeah.

John Harcar (13:15.188)
40 cents on the dollar.

John Harcar (13:25.844)
Right, he signed up for maybe a little paint, some lipstick type of stuff, but nothing where you’re, you know, you’re pulling up and fixing the subfloor and doing all those fun things.

Cameron Philgreen (13:37.298)
my gosh, dude. that has been number one. The biggest challenge has been managing contractors and then managing just construction. Like it’s challenging. It’s not pretty. It’s not glamorous until the very last 5%. Then you, you know, and then when it’s finished, then you post the before and after photos and it looks so easy. It looks like a walk in the park, but it’s not. It’s really difficult. Yeah. So

John Harcar (13:58.164)
Mm-hmm. that’s easy to do. Well, it’s like that one picture, you know, they show the iceberg, right? You see the top part and then you see below the water all the bottom, right? You don’t see all that bottom part. All you see is the pretty top part, you know?

Cameron Philgreen (14:11.672)
my gosh. Yeah, 100%. So like, if I can give advice to anyone listening to this, it’s like really even pay for some consulting on like how to handle contractors, you know, when to pay them, what amount, like what’s normal. Cause those have been the biggest headaches for me are bad contractors where I hired the cheapest guy and he took money upfront and then left and stuff like that. You know, that’s been the most challenging.

John Harcar (14:37.3)
Yeah, let’s talk about that a little bit, right? Because I think that’s huge. what is the best way to go? I mean, do you just keep calling and interviewing until you find the right guy? Do they give a portfolio of their work? I mean, what is the best way to find the right contractors?

Cameron Philgreen (14:55.862)
my gosh, I wish I had a really concise answer to that. for me, it’s really been a little bit of trial and error, honestly, because some guys, they put on a good front and they seem like they’re going to do amazing. And then they don’t show up for two weeks. so it’s taken me a little while. But I would say, sorry, to answer your question concisely, would say ask other investors, ask realtors, ask

John Harcar (15:12.744)
Yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (15:24.11)
other people who are their contacts and contact those people that have like, you know, word of mouth referrals are 100 % the best, the best. No one, I’ve found a few people on like Facebook and Craigslist and honestly, a couple of those turned out great, but most of them not so great. So word of mouth contacts, you know, iMessage contact from a friend is like 90 % of the time. Those are great. And then, man, I just,

John Harcar (15:31.07)
credibility. Yeah, for sure.

Cameron Philgreen (15:53.942)
have had so many of these guys that want a huge chunk of money up front or they want money too quickly, they want more money than the work that’s been done and that’s just like not appropriate. You I need the work to be done and then you’ll get paid and if you don’t like that then we don’t have to work together. That’s fine.

John Harcar (16:05.544)
Yep.

John Harcar (16:13.278)
Do you handle your own draws or stuff like that? Or how are you paying these guys? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cause I know some, I know there’s some, and I’ve even done a podcast with some companies that handle it for, you know, the risk mitigation, they handle it for, for flippers. They don’t have to do it. So they’re completely hands off. yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (16:18.104)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I handled all the drives. Yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (16:27.447)
Really?

Cameron Philgreen (16:33.71)
That’s kind of cool, yeah. So that’s like, hey, sorry, I don’t even have control here. You gotta talk to them, yeah. Kind of smart.

John Harcar (16:38.418)
That’s exactly it because that’s what it is. It’s mitigating that risk between you and the GC, making sure they perform before they get paid. What are some other common mistakes that you think real estate investors getting into, know, flipping or even the burr should avoid?

Cameron Philgreen (16:44.236)
Right. Yeah, yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (16:57.484)
man.

John Harcar (16:59.54)
Probably a ton, but just a couple.

Cameron Philgreen (17:01.344)
A ton of mistakes. Yeah. I would say the biggest mistake that especially beginners can make is underestimating like the extent of a rehab, the scope of work. if you are flipping or doing burr, it’s just really easy to get into a house that you thought was going to take 30 and it ends up taking 60. because you didn’t see this, you didn’t see that you didn’t check this. so that’s a big one.

is just like walking the house with a contractor, you know, not trying to estimate the rehab yourself right off the bat. That was my wife and I, our first mistake was we went into this house, we’re like, my gosh, this is gonna be so great. And we didn’t know it needed like all new HVAC, all new roof, all new plumbing, all new electrical, like to the box, to the transformer, foundation work. I mean, and then the city’s like, gotta, you know, you gotta do this much installation.

John Harcar (17:52.818)
Hmm.

Cameron Philgreen (18:00.62)
We just didn’t know. So.

John Harcar (18:01.8)
Yeah, you didn’t know the right questions to ask or things to look for,

Cameron Philgreen (18:05.452)
Yeah, exactly. So paying the hundred, 200 bucks consulting fee to a friend who’s done this a few times is really, really valuable. think I’m trying to think what else, man, like getting the wrong tenants in there, you know, not doing due diligence with, with tenants, you know, always have an application. I’ve made that mistake and I’ve had to get rid of some tenants that weren’t, weren’t paying and weren’t performing. And that’s really, that’s really painful.

John Harcar (18:32.648)
more pain.

Cameron Philgreen (18:35.522)
So due diligence on that side of things and.

You know, there’s always a title company will usually take care of title issues, but that’s a big one to look out for. I would say the biggest, as I mentioned, the biggest mistakes that I’ve made are with contractors, know, overpaying or not hiring the right person.

John Harcar (18:53.107)
Yeah.

Got it. Where do you, you know, how far, let’s say the next five years, where do you see your business? Right? I know you talked about adding some, you know, bigger apartment type of buildings. Are you kind of transitioning away maybe from the single family space to more of that stuff? I mean, what do you see yourself and what’s your biggest hurdle to get there?

Cameron Philgreen (19:17.09)
Yeah, so we, again, I find myself saying we, that’s funny you asked that, because it has historically been my wife and I, but now I have this partner, this capital partner that we’re talking on the weekly. And so when I say we this time, that’s what I’m talking about. And we’re looking into some big like, we’re hoping to transform the city of Waco in many ways. he…

John Harcar (19:34.228)
Sure.

Cameron Philgreen (19:43.951)
He has relationships with like the city manager and we’re looking to do some multimillion dollar projects in like in and near downtown Waco and really provide whether it’s housing or entertainment, you know, commercial retail space, stuff like that. We’re not really sure where it’s going, but we really are hoping to, you know, I mean, five years is a long time. think we, I’ll be north of a thousand units in five years and then really hoping to not just provide units or have

John Harcar (19:47.638)
wow.

John Harcar (19:59.356)
mixed use, stuff like that, yeah.

John Harcar (20:10.408)
Yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (20:13.902)
some amount of units, really transform the city of Waco is our goal and to really provide people with the, you know, I mean, there’s a few different draws here. We have Magnolia, we have Baylor, and Waco’s getting more and more beautiful and fun every day and every year, but we want to bring some more of that to the city. And so that’s a huge, that’s pretty big goal that we have this next like five years.

John Harcar (20:19.252)
That’s awesome.

John Harcar (20:33.532)
I’m sure, I’m sure, probably more. Yeah.

John Harcar (20:42.324)
Nice. And we didn’t talk too much about other people’s money. So let’s talk about that real fast. How’s the best way you go and find other people’s money to use for your deals?

Cameron Philgreen (20:45.57)
Yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (20:50.604)
All right, so, I mean, hard money is a great option, but you always have to bring 10 % of your own money to the table. And oftentimes, especially when I’m talking with beginners, they don’t have the 10 % to put down. And even if they’re like gonna get it back when they refinance or sell the property, oftentimes you just don’t have that 10%. But if you do have the 10%, and my favorite hard money is Kiavi. They have great rates and they’re superb.

John Harcar (21:04.276)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (21:12.958)
Right.

Cameron Philgreen (21:20.504)
transparent about rates and terms and relatively easy to like get approved on their website. So I’d recommend Kyavi. I can also originate loans for you on Kyavi if you want. And I might be able to get you better rates. But yes, 10 % of the purchase and then they’ll cover 100 % of the rehab. And they’re very much like underwriting the deal. Is this going to be a good deal or not? Because, you know, they got to cover their butts too.

John Harcar (21:34.438)
Awesome. So with them, still have to put the 10 % down.

John Harcar (21:49.894)
No, for sure. Do you a lot of business? Well, obviously you do through KiAvi. Is that where all your loans are coming from?

Cameron Philgreen (21:56.558)
Some with Kiavi on the purchase and I’m talking about like the fast, know, quick hard money purchase like bridge loans. Yeah, Kiavi I’ve used Boomerang. I’ve used myinvestorloan.com. Those guys are great. They all kind of have their different, different things they do. Like some of them require inspections before they’ll give you a draw, you know, so you kind of got to be pretty liquid and then each inspection costs like 150, 200 bucks. Some of them don’t do that.

John Harcar (22:01.522)
Yeah, yeah. Sure.

John Harcar (22:08.432)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

John Harcar (22:24.21)
Yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (22:25.728)
Okay, so there’s some different questions you can ask hard money lenders.

John Harcar (22:30.61)
Where’s your where’s your kind of range of purchase? Yeah, what do you what’s your buy level at?

Cameron Philgreen (22:34.232)
here.

Cameron Philgreen (22:39.013)
Honestly, this last year I bought one for 55. It was like a 1600 square foot house that ARV was like 300. And, then we do, I’m doing a flip right now where we bought for 250 and the house is going to be worth 400. We’re going to put like 30 into it and sell for 400. So, so like all over the place, but, but with these, what I try to do now and what I would encourage you to do listener is

John Harcar (22:57.364)
Nice, nice. Let’s go. Yeah, okay.

Cameron Philgreen (23:06.702)
try to hammer down some private money. So make it known to other people, whether friends or family, Instagram following, social media, make it known that you’re a real estate investor or that you’re buying and selling real estate or whatever. hopefully you can build a little bit of trust that way. And then go talk to those people and ask if they will lend you the 100, 200, $300,000 that you need to purchase

and renovate the house. And there’s a few different reasons why this is great. You know, first of all, you’re able to give a double digit return, you 10, 12, 13 % to your friend or family, which is great for them. So you get to help them out, give them that opportunity and to make more money on their money. You know, they’re going to fund 100 % of the purchase and 100 % of the renovation. know, oftentimes they’re not, they trust you.

John Harcar (23:49.618)
Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (24:01.49)
Yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (24:04.622)
They’re not looking, I mean, they’re looking at the deal a little bit if they’re, especially if they’re versed in real estate, but usually they’re like, hey, I’m trusting you. You’re going to have this money back to me in six months, eight months, whatever. So they’re going to give you a hundred percent of the purchase and renovation. And then often there’s no like origination fees, you know, no points there. They’re just happy that they can put their money with you and that you’re going to pay them 12 % interest. You know, they’re just stoked. And then you’re stoked because you don’t have to pay origination fees.

John Harcar (24:14.654)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

John Harcar (24:22.718)
Yeah, that’s true.

John Harcar (24:31.216)
Yeah, that’s true. Yeah, right. You don’t put 10 % down and do all that. Yeah. I mean, even if you I mean, let’s say you had to pay a point of a a origination. I mean, still, you know, having to put the 10%, which is a lot.

Cameron Philgreen (24:34.06)
And you don’t have to put any of your own money in. that’s… Yeah.

Cameron Philgreen (24:47.82)
Yeah, which can be hefty depending on like where you live and the deal itself. Yeah.

John Harcar (24:52.232)
Man, right on. Yeah, better way to go, guys. Use other people’s money, not your own. Anything else that you want to share with our audience? Anything else that you think that’s important that we need to know?

Cameron Philgreen (24:56.994)
Hehehe.

Cameron Philgreen (25:03.65)
Gosh, guys, just go out there and take action. I’d say that’s always the piece of advice that I give the most is like, you know, if you’re listening to this and you’re listening to other podcasts and you’re reading books, but you’re not out there like talking to sellers, you’re not connecting with wholesalers, you’re not putting offers on houses. Like you just got to start and mess up. Maybe that’s what I did. Our first one, we failed a lot, but, but the more you just like

fall forward, the easier it’s gonna get, the flywheel starts really going and taking action is actually a lot easier once you start going. So just get out there, take action, have fun.

John Harcar (25:37.224)
Yep.

John Harcar (25:44.584)
Yeah, it’s called analysis paralysis. We’re trying to always learn and trying to be perfect. Don’t be perfect. Just do just go. You know, a ball doesn’t roll by itself. It’s got to be pushed and it doesn’t always roll straight, but it’s got momentum and it keeps rolling. So that’s my wisdom for the day. But anyways, Cameron.

Cameron Philgreen (25:49.772)
Yes, 100%.

Cameron Philgreen (25:58.21)
Yes, that’s good. I like that. Yes.

Cameron Philgreen (26:04.707)
Yeah.

John Harcar (26:05.844)
Thanks for joining us today, man. I mean, it was a really good show. A lot of good nuggets. If anybody wants to reach out to you, because I know we didn’t touch on some things, you had a legacy podcast. If anybody is in Waco and they want some good coffee, go to For Keeps Coffee and Bakery. What made you start a coffee shop?

Cameron Philgreen (26:21.89)
Yeah, yeah, come through. Man, for the last 10, 12 years, I’ve been a specialty coffee guy. Just pour overs every morning, you know, I go to different cities with my wife and we’re always trying to find the good coffee and we, you know, we, and we analyze the aesthetic and we like this and we like that. And obviously the coffee, whether the coffee is good or not. So.

John Harcar (26:32.788)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron Philgreen (26:45.73)
We’ve had a dream of doing it for a while and then we sold this house in Lawrence. put that money into this commercial property and completely gutted the whole thing and redid it. So yeah, come to For Keeps. I do have a podcast called the Legacy Investor podcast. It’s faith centered, Jesus centered. know, sometimes, sometimes the show doesn’t go that direction, but it’s all about real estate investing in business. And you can find me on Instagram at Cameron underscore Phil Green.

John Harcar (26:46.036)
That’s cool.

John Harcar (27:01.949)
I love it.

John Harcar (27:14.214)
Sweet. Cameron, once again, man, thank you very much for joining us today. know, guys, I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. And, you know, we’ll look forward to seeing you on the next show. Guys, have a good afternoon. Thanks, Cameron. Yeah, thank you, buddy. Bye-bye.

Cameron Philgreen (27:24.398)
Thanks a lot, John. Love being here.