Build Wealth With Lending, AI & Real Estate Education | Angelo Gionis Interview

Angelo S Gionis (00:00)
If you stop flipping you have no money just like a W-2 job and everything else So our strategy is three to one and what that means is for every three houses you flip Purchase one and hold for the long term. So if you could do that within ten years Okay, you flipped three houses But the goal is I have ten investments that are there for the long term and that’s gonna be my passive income for a long time.

Erika (01:57)
Hey everyone,

welcome to the Real Estate Pro Show. I’m your host, Erika, and today I’m thrilled to be joined by Angelo Gionis, who’s shaky things up in the real estate space. Angelo, it’s awesome to have you here.

Angelo S Gionis (02:09)
All right, thank you. Welcome. Good morning.

Erika (02:14)
Good morning. Let’s dive in, Angelo. For those who aren’t familiar with your world, give us the rundown. How did you get started in real estate?

Angelo S Gionis (02:19)
Sure, so.

Great question. ⁓

I turned the amazing age of 53 ⁓ in October. So I’ve been in the real estate business since 20. So that’s 33 years. Kind of seen it all started as a loan officer, worked my

up to management. ⁓ I was blessed that my dad was in the construction space, paint and lumber and all that good stuff. So we started investing in fixing flips and projects. And then we opened up a real estate school. So I’ve kind of touched every aspect of

lending world and right now I think I’m in a space more of education, training and knowledge and my goal over the next five years is really to pass that information along and really help our company but also help people out there to really achieve their dream.

Erika (03:07)
That’s exciting. ⁓ it came to the lending, how did you specifically get into that? What was the journey to that?

Angelo S Gionis (03:12)
You know that that was really interesting.

You know I always wanted to be an accountant. Right. So my first year I went to college and I was being an accountant. And back then in 91 when you graduated as an accountant your income was about 30 thousand dollars a year. OK. And I first my first year of college and my friend jumped into kind of like the mortgage space and lending and working with contractors and he’s like hey I made a lot of money you know doing

mortgages and lending. So I had the two and a half month break during the summer and I went to my dad who owned a paint lumber and hardware store and said, Hey dad, let me start talking to some of your contractors and builders. Let’s see if we could get them to invest more in our products and let’s start issuing them credit and all that good stuff. So then I started doing that and I started seeing the interaction between the contractors and the clients. I started seeing the interaction between the clients and the funds needed to finance some of these projects.

and you want to know what? I loved it. I loved the experience of the contractors building something beautiful and the clients loving what they did. I loved breaking down numbers and all that good stuff and from there I kind of took off in the space and I’ve never stopped since then.

Erika (04:31)
That’s awesome. With your focus, you know, spanning so many different areas, what would you say are the markets that you’re operating in?

Angelo S Gionis (04:38)
So the Northeast was really

our biggest market for the longest time. About 80 % of my business is done in the Northeast, specifically New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut. But over the last two years, with the market in terms of it condensing a little bit, we kind of branched out into a lot of different areas because we needed to reach more

to keep up the volume and keep up everything we were doing. So we’re having more of a national presence, but we’re still focused more in the Northeast. ⁓

Erika (05:57)
And tell us more about your school. What really inspired you to start that?

Angelo S Gionis (06:01)
So here’s a great thing,

know, as a lender, one of the things we always do is tons of sponsorship. So we sponsor a lot of different training programs, education, and I would go to so many of these events and I would say, wow, this is amazing. And personally myself, I love to speak, I love to learn, I love to grow. So moving into a real estate school for training realtors and more importantly, loan officers was ⁓ really a natural fit. And now we get to create

the course curriculum, we get to give the CE credits, but the really the trust and the relationships built over the last three years have been amazing because not only now am I a lender, I’m an educator and a trainer and I’m really giving a lot more value. So one of the things I see with the lenders out there specifically is there’s a lot of amazing loan officers out in the space. But if you could add that education piece, that training piece and that

piece, I think it’s going to set yourself apart a little bit more and that’s where we kind of dove into. So I’m a big believer in building stronger relationships and making it hotter. I think one of the misnomers out there is you need to know as many people as possible, which is true, but when you get a good relationship, double down on that relationship, understand what their needs and their goals are and provide not only a mortgage service,

provide a encompassing service for them so they really value what you’re doing. And I think I’ve been able to build that brand over the years.

Erika (07:40)
It’s exciting. Angela, what would you say is the biggest misconception that people have in the lending space?

Angelo S Gionis (07:47)
You know, one of

the misconceptions people have is that it’s easy. You know, it’s really not easy. You know, even though we do the same things every day consistently, that’s the hard part. But what clients have to understand is each one of their situations are unique and different. And a lot of times we get the question, well, my cousin got a rate of X. Why am I not getting that rate? And what we have to be able to do in the first call, and this is really the most important thing,

⁓

I try to chain, you know teach all my students and all my realtors and all my loan officers is that first relationship and meeting with the client you need to take 30 to 40 minutes to understand everything about them ask them every question you need because if you could get that out in the beginning then the rest of it is super easy and then you could pass that file along so number one is understanding the client number two is really

understanding each client has a different perspective, need and want. And number three is you have to provide that service. And no question is a dumb question. I think that’s the most important part because we’ve been in the space so long. You know, we say DTI, SOCH, we use all these code words. The clients don’t understand what we’re saying sometimes. So even if the question seems basic to you, it’s very important to them. So that’s why I let them speak and I just listen.

after the first call, I feel that they’re really buttoned up and then we could move that file along and really give them the service they’re looking for.

Erika (09:28)
makes a lot of sense with your work in lending, investing in the school. That’s a lot of different things going on. How do you prioritize your time? Keep all these plates spinning without dropping any of them.

Angelo S Gionis (09:39)
Alright, well listen, that’s

always been the biggest key. So my name is Angelo Gionis, so my nickname is AG, always going, right? I was blessed and cursed that I really don’t need to sleep a lot, right? I sleep about five hours a day. Some people say that’s too little. I’ve been, you know, functioning very well on that. So I really like to use the calendar.

I maximize my time. And really when I focus in on something, I make sure we focus in on it. Our world changed a lot, you know, we have the

and everyone wants instant access and instant messaging right away. If me and you are having a conversation, I’m a big believer, let’s put those phones down, let’s look at each other face to face, and let’s really have a dialogue. And I think what we have to understand is if there’s a connection that way, then you don’t need to have 10 meetings because we’re present in the meeting. When I look around, even my kids, you know, they’re multitasking, they’re watching TV, they’re texting on their phone, they’re looking around, they’re doing three things.

at once, you can’t be successful if you’re not focusing on that one thing and you’re not giving it all your effort. So I give it all my extra effort and the one thing is, doesn’t matter what my position is in a company or doesn’t matter what my role is, I do not care about rolling up my sleeves and doing the work. And when you do the work, people follow you and people respect you. So not only do you have to want it, you have to be willing to put in the work and the time.

Erika (11:41)
Absolutely. I love that. Angelo, you had ⁓ mentioned in the questionnaire that you filled out that you love hosting networking events. What’s the secret sauce to creating events that actually lead to meaningful connections or deals for you?

Angelo S Gionis (11:50)
Yeah.

You know what? That’s amazing

and it depends on who you’re targeting. Okay. So before we start an event, the first question we have to ask ourselves is what is the goal of the event and who are we trying to target? So if we’re targeting higher end realtors, what do higher end realtors want? Because one of the things we found out is a lot of the events that are happening ⁓ aren’t meant for every type of realtor investor out there. So if you have a brand new realtor, if you have a mid level

and if you have a mega agent and they’re all in the same room I feel we’re doing something wrong because we can’t give value and service to all three segments because they need different things. So I think understanding what you’re targeting and what you’re doing but this is where I think the key is it doesn’t matter if there’s three people in a networking room or a thousand if you don’t follow up with those people or those agents in the next three days the money

you

spent, the time you spent at that event is lost. And I think people don’t understand. It’s not showing up. Everyone could show up. It’s what do you do in the next 72 hours that’s going to make your difference. Because look, we’re all busy. We have a lot of stuff we’re doing. And if we don’t have the ability to reach out to them in the next 72 hours, they’re going to forget about us. Even though we think we’re such memorable people, everybody has other things to do.

Erika (13:27)
Yeah, that makes sense. Time is of the essence. Angelo, I know that you have lot of investing experience too. What kind of properties do you like to look for and how do you decide if a deal is worth going for?

Angelo S Gionis (13:41)
Okay, so that’s a

great question. ⁓ I was blessed that one of my friends was in the hedge fund space young. So he had a portfolio and he came to me very young and said, hey, Ange, I have about $10 million and this was back in, you know, around 93 to 95. Can you help me place that money and find deals for me? The one thing we found out in the beginning is if we don’t pick the right partners, the deals fall apart.

So a lot of times people think it’s the project that’s the most important, which I agree it’s very important, but the person behind the project is even more important. Okay, if someone’s first time they’re investing in a small commercial property and they’ve never had rental experience or anything like that, the failure rate on those types of transactions are way more because they don’t have the experience and they don’t have the price point. So I think the quality of the borrower and the

Standing is super important these days and then number two. It’s like anything else. It’s plug-and-play We have a direct formula that we look at what are they purchasing it for? What’s the construction? What’s the after value? What’s the rent roll? What’s the debt service and let’s figure all that out and go from

now I have a lot of friends that are flippers and flippers are their jobs So they flip houses flip houses flip houses. I came up with a different strategy for the flippers

Because

if you stop flipping you have no money just like a W-2 job and everything else So our strategy is three to one and what that means is for every three houses you flip Purchase one and hold for the long term. So if you could do that within ten years Okay, you flipped three houses But the goal is I have ten investments that are there for the long term and that’s gonna be my passive income for a long

So I think that’s super important three to one. That’s our strategy

strategy.

Erika (16:25)
Very cool. As I’m sure you’re familiar with, every operator has a moment where things get real. A deal went sideways or a challenge tested you. Angela, can you share one of those moments and how you powered through it?

Angelo S Gionis (16:37)
So great question

on that end. I tell all my realtor partners and the people I deal with, don’t judge me on the good call. Everybody can make a good call. Hey, the appraisal came in, we’re clear to close, we got the rate locked, and I’m calling with a lot of excitement and urgency. What I want you to judge me on is when something gets real or they’re a challenge, I’m gonna be the first one to give you a call right away and say, hey Erika, listen, the appraisal didn’t come in.

Erika, I thought the client was still working at this job, she just quit. Hey Erika, something popped up on Fraud Guard that we missed because of this or that and we need to handle it. So look, in our business, there’s always turns left and right, but the question is, the person you’re working with, are they handling those issues as

when it’s a good call? And I think that’s really the most important thing in how you want to grade myself once there’s a challenge.

stepping up to the plate and delivering that communication they need to solve the problem. Because let’s be frank, things come up all the time and you need to be able to rely on the bed so you could fix it and then build. ⁓

Erika (17:55)
Absolutely.

for our listeners who are looking the break into lending or scale their operations, what’s one piece of advice you give them about building trust with capital sources?

Angelo S Gionis (18:05)
Okay, so

I think in any business, the first thing you should do is find a mentor or find someone that’s done it, right? Everyone in this world today is immediacy. I want to make the money, I want to make the money. My suggestion is if you could find a good trusted partner that’s either a builder, that’s either investor, or that’s either a lender, offer them your services for free and just say, hey Erika, I just want to be around you.

to be around what you do and learn every part of it. I want to understand what makes a good deal, how to communicate and just be a sponge. Now number one, they have to accept that from you and be able to do that. But I think really the key is finding the right people that have done it, ask the right questions and be able to just roll up your sleeves and help. So if someone wanted to first start an investing, what I would say is maybe find the opportunity

and don’t do it yourself, give it to someone that’s done it in the past and say, I don’t even want to make any money on this transaction. But what I want you to do is if we’re going to meet contractors, I want to be at the meeting at the contractors to understand that process. If we’re going to meet the title company or the engineer and build on that, let me sit in with them to understand what the key points are. And when we list the house and do the financing, I want to be involved with each step because openly the hardest investment is the first

investment. After you accomplish the first investment, everything is easy because it’s in your mind and you understand what to do. So what I would say is take a deep breath, you have a lot of time, find someone that’s really good in the space and just work on that.

Erika (19:54)
love that. Angela, what would you say is your vision for growth and what are you most focused on solving to get there?

Angelo S Gionis (20:01)
So my vision

for growth is how can we mix the AI that’s out there to make our loan officers better and proficient. We’ve been testing it out a lot and this is what we learned.

I think AI is amazing at making initial conversations. think AI is amazing at maybe doing some of the follow up that the human person would maybe drop because that’s their least favorite thing to do. So that could kind of check all those boxes, but you still have to have the human interaction and you really still have to have that follow up. So what we’re trying to say is, Hey, loan officer, hey realtor, you have a thousand people in your database.

Let the AI scrub that, but be amazing on the 10 to 15 calls that you need to do and have that human interaction and build that bond. So I think the best people in our industry are going to be able to blend AI to do the non-producing activities and have the agents or the loan officers and the investors work on high focused opportunities. So I think that’s the goal. And if we hit it right, I think there’s a refinance boom coming.

out hopefully in the next six to nine months and we want to be prepared.

Erika (21:21)
That’s exciting.

All right, Angelo, before we let you go, if someone wants to connect with you, learn more about your school or maybe collaborate on a deal or they need some lending, how should they get a hold of you?

Angelo S Gionis (21:30)
Yeah, so thanks for that. know, the easiest way

is always myself, right? And I have a great team. So one of the things we learned, communication and immediacy is important. Nobody wants to wait. So if you send me a text, you’re going to get a text back within the next five minutes. And the best way is 516-902-3933. That’s my cell phone number. Our real estate school is Oak Knowledge. So if you go online and type in Oak Knowledge, you could see everything we’re doing.

on that in New York and the lending institution I work with is Contour Mortgage. I’m one of the senior vice presidents at Contour Mortgage and if you want any investment advice or how to break in or I want to be a realtor or lender, the one thing I could give is my time and my experience and if I could help one person out there, you know, I’ve done an amazing job today and that’s really what my goal is over the next year is to really help the next generation and my son become the people they want to be. ⁓

Erika (22:31)
I love how you’re teaching, connecting others to succeed in this space. It’s inspiring stuff. Thank you so much for dropping all this knowledge today.

Angelo S Gionis (22:38)
Well, I appreciate it, Erika,

and I’d love to connect more with you on the side and let’s see if we could build and grow and do something together.

Erika (22:48)
For everyone tuning in, if you got value from this episode, make sure that you’re subscribed to the Real Estate Pro Show. We’ve got more conversations coming up with operators like Angelo who are out there building incredible empires of real estate. We’ll see you on

next episode.