Build Financial Freedom Faster with Real Estate | James Michener

James Michener (00:00)
I call it the real estate freeway, right?

there’s frickin five lanes of what I’m doing. There’s the retail real estate so I’m already cold calling so I’m calling for listings, calling for wholesale deals, I’m calling for fix and flips, I’m calling for… ⁓

private money deals and then just whatever else I want the rentals, right? So, so I have five lanes that I can go into by doing these, this one activity, which is cold calling,

Cody Crabb (02:02)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros podcast. I’m Cody Crabb with Investor Fuel. And today we have with us James Michener of the James Michener Group in Arizona. He’s a seasoned real estate investor and operator with experience in rentals, wholesaling, lending, fix and flips. We’re gonna talk about market shifts and growth and what is working for him on the ground right now. He’s a, ⁓ we had a weird amount of connections before this. were chatting and I was,

the place he lives is kind of ⁓ obscure, wouldn’t you say? And I was like, hey, I’ve been there. And it was like, really, why? So yeah, and I was a little bit like, there’s real estate in Prescott, Arizona. So yeah, but this is very interesting here. ⁓ So ⁓ let’s give us the quick ⁓ origin story here. How did you get into real estate and adjacent to it? And what led you to?

James Michener (02:32)
Yeah, yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

Cody Crabb (02:58)
what you do right now.

James Michener (02:59)
Yeah, so.

First off, nice to meet you, Cody. It’s awesome that you came to Prescott and your wife did the chalk up and whatnot. That’s a awesome thing. Hopefully you come here this summer and we can talk it up and get the kids to a splash pad or something. ⁓ so I got into real estate because, ⁓ when I was 14 years old, my mom ended up moving to Sedona. played soccer and I was pretty good at it. So a couple of my buddies, ⁓ were trying to get me to stay here. And, one of their families offered to house me.

Cody Crabb (03:09)
Yeah, that’d be great. ⁓

James Michener (03:30)
for the soccer season and one of those families, the dad was a real estate broker, right? So I got to see the ins and outs of how he lived and the wealth he accumulated. And I ended up living there for four years or three, four years after that, which was just amazing because I got to see the ins and outs of how a family truly worked and how a guy could start from nothing. Literally, he grew up super poor in Iowa, moved to Prescott and has lived here for 51 years.

been selling real estate for just about that amount of time. And he got to 24 doors. He retired at 55 years old. And I was like, damn, that’s the thing I want to do. Cause he was always out and about, right? Meeting people. knew a lot of people. He, uh, retired way sooner than a lot of my friends, dads that were doctors, lawyers, or a CEO of one of the biggest companies here in town that made good money. And I was like, you know, that’s kind of like the lifestyle I’d like to do, you know, why not sell real estate?

Cody Crabb (04:13)
Yeah.

James Michener (04:30)
and invest in the number one asset that makes people millionaires, right? So I took a little bit of a break, ⁓ finished college, started at Grand Canyon University, was an enrollment counselor there for their nursing program and health sciences and started my master’s. And then I saw what other people were doing with their master’s after they graduated GCN. like, you know, I think I want to get my real estate license. And unbeknownst to me, I had written my senior paper on what I wanted to be, which was a real estate agent.

And I totally forgot about that, right?

So my guardian parents are like, Hey, I found this report that you did and you want to be a real estate agent. Isn’t that crazy? So as I was doing my master’s program, I enrolled in real estate school, got through that, started a little bit, did one little deal with one of my friends. And, I made like 8,000 bucks or something. And I barely did anything like helping her cause she took over. was one of those type a personalities, but I was like, you know, this is really cool. Like I got to some cool real estate. I got to see the ins and outs and, ⁓

Um, I just thought it was great. So joined a brokerage down in Phoenix, and then I got an opportunity to go teach English in Taiwan. So I went and did that for a summer, then went to backpacking through Thailand and worked on a farm in Montana, went down to Mexico, and then I finally settled back and I was like, I’m going to try to get myself into real estate. Right. And at that point I was 26 years old and the average age of a resident in Prescott is 60 years old. Right. So I had some uphill battle that I was going to go.

Cody Crabb (06:30)
Wow.

Sure.

Yeah.

James Michener (06:47)
through in doing this, but I knew I was hungry. ⁓ I was always good at sales when I worked at Wells Fargo, Grand Canyon University, wherever I was at, I was always a good performer, right? ⁓ one of the top ones. So I started, ⁓ doing what the brokerage said, which was, you know, sit open houses, talk to as many people as you know. And, they had a coach in there, ⁓ Bob Loeffler. And, he said, you need to do cold calling and sit in your office for three, four hours and just cold call random people and do.

cancel expires, force all my owners. I’m like, there’s no way I’m going to do that. I did that at Canyon University. It sucked. There’s no way. So fast forward three months, right? I have zero deals. And he’s like, how many deals you got? I’m like, I got zero. He’s like, you need to start calling. I’m like, okay, yeah, I’ll do it. No, I’m not going to do that. Right. Set a few open houses, nothing.

Cody Crabb (07:26)
Yeah.

James Michener (07:37)
⁓ five months ago by he says, Hey, how you doing James? ⁓ I’m all right. How many deals you got? Zero. He’s like, you need to start cold calling. I’m like, damn, I’ll just do it. So I started watching videos on YouTube and taking some of his, his information. Right. And I started watching Colton Lindsay and followed him and just watched how he did cancel expires and for sale by owners. And I just started getting appointments. ⁓ and I sold my first house in July, ⁓ sorry, June 30th.

is the, was the closing and it got pushed to July 1st, closed that one and then I closed 25 additional deals after that. And it was just because I had been prospecting that entire time, but I didn’t make a paycheck for nine months and it took me four months, five months to really like get into the grind of calling. So I saw with the…

Cody Crabb (08:21)
Wow.

James Michener (08:27)
what the potential was, right? And I, um, that first paycheck I got in July was 5,500 bucks. And at that mine, my mindset then was like, if I could do 10 of those, that’s, you know, $55,000 a month, right? I’m like, I think I could do that. So I just started going ham. And then the next year, so the first year I made about 56,000. The next year I made 180, then I made 300, then I made 400, then I made 600. And then after that, it was like 800.

and then 975 and then a million over a million over a million and then 2.7 million dollars I made one year in 2021 which was just crazy right but I always remembered what my guardian father had done and he had bought rental properties and I was like early on me and my wife I had always listened to Bigger Pocket so I’d wake up I’d work out go on a hike and I listen to Bigger Pocket so I was doing it and it was all about real estate investing so

Cody Crabb (09:04)
Wow. Yeah.

James Michener (09:25)
My second year in real estate, I had a bunch of money saved up, I wasn’t able to be, I wasn’t lendable because I hadn’t been in the business for two years, but I had to down payment. So my wife and I had lived in a downstairs of friends that she knew. And she told me, she’s like, I need to get out of here. We need to get our own place. And I’m like, I really want to buy something if we’re going to do it.

Dude, God has worked so many good ways in my life, right? So literally the next day I wake up and one of my buddies texts me and he’s like, Hey, I got a duplex. know you’ve been kind of talking about it a little bit, but I got a duplex. That’s going to hit the market. I’m like, cool.

Cody Crabb (09:59)
⁓ And you’re like,

James Michener (10:37)
I’m going to go take a look at it. Yep. So I buy that duplex, right? And I wanted to keep my rent about the same amount that I’d been paying, which was 400 bucks a month. So I buy this duplex. I run the numbers. like, I would just have to pay 400 bucks a month if I rent out this other side. So.

Cody Crabb (10:38)
yeah, yeah.

Wow.

James Michener (10:52)
I go look at it. call my wife. She heads over after work and I’m like, let’s buy this. She’s like, okay, cool. She’s always been on board with everything I’ve done. Right. I got some wild stories. So we buy that duplex house hack it, live in it for about 18 months. Then one of my buddies calls me and he goes, Hey, I need to sell his house. I’m like, where is it? He tells me it’s down the street from my duplex. He’s like, but it needs a lot of work. So I don’t even know if I want to list it. Do you know a cash or a cash buyer or somebody that would just buy it for me as is I’m like, well, let me take a look at it. So I go take a look at it. ⁓

Oh, I’ll buy it from you. So I buy it from him, right? And I bought that house for 150,000. It’s probably worth like four, four hundred, four fifty now at this point. So we move into that and then we just keep moving into houses, renting them, move out of that one, rent it. And now we’re in our current house. And I was making so much money at that point. I had grown up so poor, I felt like me and my wife could live on 50, 60 grand if we wanted to. Right. So all that money I had saved up, I just started buying rental property.

Cody Crabb (11:32)
Wow.

James Michener (11:52)
at that point.

unbeknownst to me, I was accumulating wealth at a pretty fast pace. I just thought I was kind of like, you know, I would be okay when I got to retirement age, which was definitely, it’s turned out to be a lot better than what I thought. And ⁓ I started learning about wholesale because I’d have these other builders or investors that I would give deals to and then they would buy them and then they would list it with their friend or they would keep it or they would, you know, as a rental or for themselves. I’m like, damn, I just lost out on commission.

on this. So I figured out what wholesale was. And the first time I did a wholesale, I sold it to an investor that I had worked with a lot. And he’s like, dude, you’re making a 50 grand rip on this thing. Like, why don’t you just sell it to me for what you got it for? I’m like, no, because this deal and this deal never got me paid. Like this is if you want it, this is what it’s going to be. So I made 50 grand on that. I’m like, dude, this is awesome, right? I can do listings while I’m cold calling. I can do listings. I can do wholesale. I can do the rentals. And then I was buying my own fix and flips at the same time. Right.

And then I had a mass amount of cash that I had saved up So I started lending it out to people at like 12 % interest in two points. Am I cool? I can lend somebody and their property’s worth Let’s say 250 and they buy it for 180 I give them 150 I’m already in it really well and I’m making 12 % So if they default I get that 12 % plus two points and I get the property and I already know what to do with the property

Cody Crabb (12:56)
Yeah.

James Michener (13:22)
I call it the real estate freeway, right?

there’s frickin five lanes of what I’m doing. There’s the retail real estate so I’m already cold calling so I’m calling for listings, calling for wholesale deals, I’m calling for fix and flips, I’m calling for… ⁓

private money deals and then just whatever else I want the rentals, right? So, so I have five lanes that I can go into by doing these, this one activity, which is cold calling,

right? Cancel expires for sell by owners and just circle prospecting.

It’s really hard and I totally agree with it. The way I was able to do it, don’t know how, but I did it for seven years straight for like three hours a day, five days a week, so a little bit on Saturdays. And for seven years, I worked seven days a week for 10 to 12 hours a day at least, but it definitely paid off for me. And in 2022, everything had kind of like peaked, right? And there was all these opportunities and I had a bunch of cash and I was like…

Cody Crabb (14:06)
Wow.

James Michener (14:23)
You know, right now I have 26 rentals. I think I’m going to pay off at least half of these because if I make a mistake then, ⁓ and I lose all this cash, I don’t know that I have like the gusto to go do it again. Right. Cause it took so much out of me, man. It was just crazy. The amount of work I had to pay.

Cody Crabb (14:37)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess in your mind, you

were a little bit like, I just gotta do it this once and get it, you know what I mean? And then now you’re thinking, can’t start that over again.

James Michener (14:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, I didn’t want to start over again, right? Because my kids are at that point, my son was probably three years old and I was like, okay, I know I want to live on at least $200,000. So I pay off those

and I’m making about 250 grand a year. Sorry, 250 or 200 a year is what I want to make. So I pay off those rentals and making 250 a year, just residual off of it, right? Then I started accumulating more and more and more. And now we’re right about 350, 400, depending on what

⁓ you know, what’s coming in just residualy from investments with so just waking up in the morning and doing it. ⁓ And my son at three and a half, I had like four phone calls that came in, right? The first three I answered while I’m playing with them. The fourth one comes in and goes, just answer your phone. You don’t have to play with me. I’m like, dude, no way. I’m not hanging. I’m put my phone away and I just played with them and I’m like, I need to change some things up because I’m going to miss the best times of buying kids lives.

And although I love girls too.

Cody Crabb (16:32)
Yeah, I got little kids too that

it hits extra hard for me because that’s something I’ve also have always been like, you know, I’m knowing it was ever like, I wish I had worked harder. I wish I’d made more money. Everyone’s like, I wish I spent more time with my kids. I wish that, you know, so yeah. That’s awesome.

James Michener (16:41)
No.

Dude, my kids toys are in my office because while I’m working, they’ll be in here and I’ll play with them. Right. Like while

I was prospecting, because my wife would be sleeping with my daughter, you know, because they would sleep until, you know, nine

My son’s sitting here. He would just play while I’m doing my prospecting. But I knew I had to do that. Right. I had to get out of it by the time they were a certain age, but I never hung out with my, I would hang out with my friends, but I wouldn’t like go to the bars or like go to their mechanic shop and just hang out. We would do like dedicated times where I would do that.

Cody Crabb (17:03)
Yeah.

James Michener (17:15)
But most of the time I was either working or I was spending time with my family and that was my ML. And so I just kept the one thing, the one thing for so long that it just compounded and time after time, year after year got better and better and better. And now I’m

a point where I own 36 rental properties, still do the private money investing, still do the fix and flips. Now I have one of my best friends doing it with me. So he handles a lot of that stuff and he handles the wholesale stuff.

I’m not selling like a hundred homes a year anymore. Uh, the best year I ever had was 183. sold by myself and that was just wild. And we did almost 400 with my team, including wholesale. Uh, but backed off of that and that was a year. It 2.7 million. was just dude, unreal money. It was crazy. I didn’t even know.

Cody Crabb (17:53)
Yeah, that’s…

Especially like you said,

coming from kind of a regular middle class background, you’re like, what do I even do? It sounds like you’re just like, well, I you know, I gotta just reinvest it and yeah, yeah.

James Michener (18:13)
I didn’t know what to do. Dude,

that means like almost $500,000 one month. I’m like, holy crap, what do I do with this? I’m like…

Cody Crabb (18:19)
Why do I even do this?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

James Michener (18:21)
This is so crazy. So I

just invested it, right? Cause I didn’t need it. And I just wanted to put it away that way. If I want to take a break, I could, but real estate has done so much for me, man. It’s taught me a lot about myself. It’s given me a lot of confidence. Like it’s brought me tears. It’s brought me like a lot of anxiety, but it’s also built me up to be a really, really like strong, dedicated, disciplined person as well. And it’s given me, it’s taught me that if I could do it, I think pretty much anybody could do it. Right.

Cody Crabb (18:28)
Yeah.

James Michener (18:51)
And it’s not just with real estate. Like I talked to a guy yesterday, he dropped off or yeah, yesterday he dropped off ⁓ a storage shed for me and he’s like, yeah, I run this business, but I also buy rental properties. I have six of them. I’m like, dude, that’s so cool. He’s like, what are you doing? I told him, he’s like, I need your number, right? Like I’m making a bunch of money with this, but I want to invest in real estate. Do you fix and flips? Like, let me know. So, ⁓ you know, you’re using your day job to invest in your real estate.

I was part of a mastermind up in Seattle. live in Arizona, but I was part of one up in Seattle because I liked the guy that was running it. And those guys that I was in the mastermind with are working for Amazon and Google. And they’re making like four to six hundred thousand dollars a year. Right. And like, ⁓ I think I’m going to quit my job and go all in on real estate. Dude, you are literally like six years younger than me. You’re making tons of money. Like, just keep working that. Just invest it. Yeah, like.

Cody Crabb (19:43)
Keep your job and go all in on real estate. Yeah,

hire someone full time to just do that for you and then just keep doing what you’re doing. Yeah, yeah.

James Michener (19:51)
Yeah.

Exactly. And

my thing is, like, God gave us energy while we’re young, like use it and go forward with it and plan out your time and you’ll be there with your family when you need to be. And just make sure you keep the main thing, the main thing. And as long as you’re not like doing all these side hobbies and stuff, I do feel like there’s enough time for work and family, right? There’s not, I never found the balance for me to do work, family and side, like fun stuff, right? Like very rarely, but

I knew the goal I wanted to be at, which was to get fire, like financial independence, as soon as possible, right? So that was my biggest thing.

Cody Crabb (20:34)
Wow,

gives us a lot to think about here. So first of all, love that, I always think about that saying where, ⁓ show me someone’s calendar and that will show me their priorities, right? So if you say family is the most important thing and you’re spending two or three hours a week with them, are they? Like really, are they? So that’s what I mean. I think that makes me think a lot.

James Michener (20:46)
Yeah.

Cody Crabb (21:00)
in your case, like if you really mean that, if that’s, then show it. do, you know, put the time in and stuff. Don’t abandon the thing ⁓ that you actually want. And also just to comment on the, you know, the thing funding your freedom with these people, like you said, with these ridiculous salaries in Seattle, ⁓ you know, what would you recommend? So like, let’s just kind of do a hypothetical. Like if you were actually giving advice to someone like that.

What would you say their process should be?

James Michener (21:30)
their process should

be is work your day job and then on the side, like just start investing in real estate. Cause you’re making so much money at that point.

Real estate takes a long time to get going. Right. Like, there are some ups and downs, like big time. mean, we’re in a downward market right now. It’s scary. Like investing is scary. Like I’m only trying to do home runs at this point, ⁓ or deals. feel like I could at least break even if something came up. Right. So, my advice would be to keep that job and just start investing in real estate, like invest in work. Those two jobs, get your wife in it, into it if you can, and you’re not going to go as

fast as maybe like somebody like me, that’s a real estate agent, but I’m coming up against all these deals, right? But you’re also making $600,000, four to $600,000, like almost guaranteed every day with benefits and all that stuff, which adds up a ton, right? Like stay in your job, invest in real estate and just grind it out for at least five years, right? If you can do 10, your life’s changed and then you don’t have to do anything else. But also like in that five to 10 year stretch where

Cody Crabb (22:25)
Yeah.

James Michener (22:39)
pushing really hard, spend a lot of time with your family because that’s the main reason you’re doing it, right? Is to be able to fund a good life for you and your family. So, yeah.

Cody Crabb (22:48)
Yeah. Yeah,

think no one, like I was saying this before, no one’s gonna regret spending more time or doing those things like that. So, oh yeah.

James Michener (22:55)
Yeah.

People will say

like, Oh, that sounds, you make it sound so easy. It’s like, was such dedicated, like time blocking. Like you said, show me your schedule. I’ll show you what’s important. Like, dude, I woke up in the morning at five 36. I worked out. is my podcast. Got to work by seven 30. Did my prospecting until 10 30 11. Then I hit my appointments and it was all blocked out five days a week. Right. It was all blocked out. And if I had to do a Saturday or Sunday appointment, I would do it. But most of time I tried to take that time off.

Cody Crabb (23:26)
Yeah, that’s great. So, okay, so let’s just, that’s a really thorough, awesome background and kind of shows us your values and things. I would be curious, like, so give us like a little snapshot of, you said there’s a little bit of a downward market. You’re in kind of a unique area. I don’t know, do you do a lot of stuff outside of Prescott or is it mostly inside Prescott?

James Michener (23:48)
It’s in Yellow Pie County in Phoenix too. Yeah, yeah, and it’s all relatively similar.

Cody Crabb (23:50)
Gotcha, so nearby at least. and in the Phoenix area,

Gotcha, so my question would be like, what are you seeing in the market right now? What challenges are there that you’re facing personally? Just to kind of give people an idea. We have guests from all over the country that are on this podcast, but I like to kind of go specifically, if someone is in this area looking, what should they keep in mind and things?

James Michener (24:15)
Yeah.

In Arizona, what you’re looking at is obviously price have gone down and there’s so much more inventory. I think that’s the biggest thing is you think that you buy a fix and flip or, um, even a rental man, like our rental price have gone down because so many people have tried to list their house to sell it and they can’t. they end up renting it. And so I was renting a property just down the street from my personal house for 2,500 a month. had to get, I got a new tenant in there at 2,100 a month. had to drop the

400 bucks a month on that because of the rental inventory right but it’s paid off that rentals paid off so that was okay for me right and ⁓ when it comes to fix and flips like man I just buy deeper because the amount of inventory that I’m gonna be competing with is so much higher and the buyer now now we have the Iran conflict going on and the gas price dude like how old are you Cody?

Cody Crabb (24:54)
Yeah.

34.

James Michener (25:16)
Yeah, like I’m 38 now. I thought I was going to say 36. I’m 38. But I feel like since our adult life, there’s always been something going on, right? I don’t know if that’s social media or what.

Cody Crabb (25:22)
⁓ Nice try.

Yeah, there’s

the meme of ⁓ Millennials are tired of having once in a lifetime events every couple years. Yeah. Yeah.

James Michener (25:34)
Yeah, seriously. Yeah.

So it was always something, so you just got to push through it. Right. But there’s

all these conflicts. I’m like that to me at my point, like I use chat GPT a lot. Right. And so I tell it what I own and all this stuff. And it’s like, just play defense, play some really good offense. Right. But don’t play too much offense to where you’re going to leave yourself like hanging and be able to be a pinata just beat up by a market. If it drops out. Right. So my moves at this point are super calculated and I’m not willing to take a whole lot of like, you

this probably could pan out and I probably could make a lot of money or It’s gonna just crash right? So that’s that’s just not me I’m not a huge risk taker like that like I’d way rather be conservative and be the tortoise first the hare right and just Make my moves make my moves. This is a long play for me And so when it comes to this market in Arizona, like it’s gonna go back up, right? It should I talked to an old-timer in 2000 and

1819 I sold a house for more than what any house that sold for price for square foot. ⁓

in 2005, 2006, which was the peak of our market. And so I called this guy Stanley Pachak and he’s like 80 years old at the time, right? I’m like, Stanley, I’m about to sell a house for more price square foot than it’s ever sold for. Is this like, are we going to reach higher than we did in 2005, 2006? And he goes, Oh, James buckle up your seatbelt. Here we go. We’re going to go higher than we did before. And then we’ll drop back down and then we’ll go back higher. It’s been going like this for 50 years. So there’s going to be time when it’s right, right? But

Cody Crabb (27:02)
you

Yeah.

James Michener (27:12)
I do believe what Warren Buffett says too, is like when there’s blood in the streets feed, right? And when the tide goes out, you’ll see who’s naked. And I can’t tell you how many people look like they were doing great. And now they’re not because they were over leveraged or something like that. But if you have cash, you have dry powder, you can set that off and buy some really good deals right now. But.

Cody Crabb (27:26)
Yeah.

James Michener (27:36)
If my number one piece of advice for investors, just shoot out offers. And if it works great, don’t get emotionally attached to it. It’s like, just don’t like if it works and if somebody gets, ⁓

their feelings hurt from it. Just say, I have kids or I have a family, I have a business, I got to make money with the markets where this is where I got to be. And if you can make a move up a little bit and make it better, great. If you can negotiate a profit share with them because it’s too deep, but you want them to be able to make a little bit more on the back end. If you make a killing and they think you’re going to make a killing, cool. Make a deal to where, you know, they get a portion of the profits or something like that. I do that all the time, but look for the owner carry deals, look for creative financing.

Cody Crabb (27:58)
Yeah.

James Michener (28:18)
it’s it’s there.

Cody Crabb (28:20)
Okay, so we’re winding down here, you’ve given us a lot of awesome stuff here. ⁓ So let’s say someone wants to ⁓ chat with you. They’re like, he’s got some good advice, or I wanna work with this guy, or something like that. First of all, where should you live or be, or kind of be located in order to actually work with you? And then ⁓ where could they find you online?

James Michener (28:44)
Yeah, ⁓ man, I have so many coaching students that live in Florida or just two hours north of me. I mean, you could reach out to me on Instagram, James R. Michener or Facebook, James Michener, or, you know, YouTube channel, which is financial, ⁓ financial free realtor, ⁓ realtors, ⁓ just send me a message on there. I’m not huge on social media. Like I’m not checking my messages all the time. So if it takes me a day or two, I promise I’m not ghosting you. just have my work and my.

and I try not to be on that stuff because dude I get sucked into it too just like everybody else man dude like Instagram I’ll be on there watching these videos and it’s all about parenting or it’s about money and I’m like sending it to my wife she’s like can you stop sending me parenting videos I’m like yeah I’m yeah seriously right yeah so but but I love doing the coaching

Cody Crabb (29:17)
It’s literally like genetically engineered to do that. that’s yeah, no

and just compare it for a minute. Yeah, I know what mean. Yeah, I’ve been guilty of that for sure.

James Michener (29:39)
I think it’s great. And I try to work with people that are actually going to do the work. I don’t want to like work. I had a big group coaching for a while and it just wasn’t for me at that point. yeah. Yeah. And I would love to do group coaching with like high producing individuals, which would be super cool because they helped me grow too. So, yep.

Cody Crabb (29:50)
You want to do like the one-on-one, be selective and find people that you can actually.

Yeah,

awesome. Well, hey, thank you so much for this today, James. This has been really great. ⁓ And thank you listeners for joining us today. you got something out of this episode, which I’m sure you did at this point, please go ahead and hit subscribe so you can get notified about all of our episodes and ⁓ get in touch if ⁓ you have any questions. It sounds like James is pretty open. So once again, James, thanks so much for helping us out today.

James Michener (30:24)
Yeah, thanks Cody. Have a great day,