Affordable Housing Investing: Carol Brenner’s Proven Formula for Big Returns

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Show Summary

In this episode of the Real Estate Pros podcast, host Q Edmonds interviews Carol Brenner, a seasoned real estate investor and educator with over 30 years of experience. Carol shares her journey in the real estate industry, emphasizing the importance of consistency, innovative construction methods, and creating affordable housing solutions. She discusses the challenges of pivoting in real estate and the significance of building relationships and networking. Carol’s insights provide valuable lessons for both new and experienced investors looking to thrive in the ever-changing real estate market.

Resources and Links from this show:

• • • Investor Fuel Real Estate Mastermind
    • Investor Machine Real Estate Lead Generation
    • Mike on Facebook
    • Mike on Instagram
    • Mike on LinkedIn
    • Carol Brenner’s Website
    • Carol Brenner on LinkedIn
    • Carol Brenner’s Phone Number: (561) 566-5081

  Listen to the Audio Version of this Episode

  Investor Fuel Show Transcript:

  Carol Brenner (00:00)
  But it’s very, very important that people and people, people don’t see these gems. I had a piece of property in Palm Beach County. I swear rats wouldn’t live there. And people were very, scared about it being a historic designation.

  They were very scared because it was 4,700 square feet of nothingness and in the middle of the It wasn’t pretty at all. But I have to tell you through research and through understanding, I sat.

  and I looked at that building and I turned it into four three-bedroom, two-bath And as soon as I opened the door and it was full of Section 8 tenants, so I had gotten really good rents because they were three bedrooms. So I knew,

  that in that marketplace I wanted larger units. ⁓ And somebody came across and they said, I want to buy this building. they bought that building for $1.19 million

  Quentin (02:27)
  Hello everyone. Welcome to the Real Estate Pros podcast. I’m your host, Q Edmonds. I’m excited to be here today. I’m excited to be alive. Excited to have another chance to do this episode and do an interview with a guest that is full of joy, full of life, full of knowledge. Been in the business for 30 years, has seen the business from so many different angles. And I’m so excited.

  for you to get to peek through her lens, for her to take us into her world. And so I just want to introduce you guys to Miss Carol Brenner. How you doing today, man?

  Carol Brenner (03:03)
  Great, great to be here.

  Quentin (03:05)
  Absolutely.

  It is so great for you to be here. I’m so excited about this episode that we’re about to do. Like I said, I’m, I’m, I am anticipating people seeing things from your lens and getting a new insight on maybe different angles of the business that maybe they’re in, never kind of thought about it from your perspective and from your way of thinking. So I’m excited for you to take us into your world. And so to be honest, Ms. Carol, I kind of just want to dive in.

  ⁓ If you don’t mind tell people what are your main focus these days? Tell people what markets you’re operating them and just tell them a little bit about yourself, miss girl

  Carol Brenner (03:42)
  ⁓ We’re a full-fledged investment company. ⁓ We basically are wholly owned. So we work with properties that we purchase that are being renovated or being ⁓ renovated to hold or to sell. ⁓ We are located pretty much in a funny dichotomy, but our home base is in Palm Beach County, Florida.

  ⁓ We sell properties anywhere from Broward to Port St. Lucie, Florida as well as in Duval County and around the northern areas, which is the areas we’ve been pushing for the last, I want to say eight years. ⁓ That area has been really lucrative for the last eight years. We’ve done everything from multifamily to full builds to single family. And right now we’re working on creating portfolios. Basically we work in the affordable housing space.

  So we either create spaces for people to purchase or we’re creating spaces for people to live in. And we work from low income to moderate income. And that’s pretty much the spaces that we stay in.

  ⁓ For me, I’ve been a broker for 30 years, as well as a state certified appraiser in the state of Florida. ⁓ And I am a real estate educator as well. So it’s been a very full circle. And I believe in being a really vertically integrated investor, as well as as as operator. That’s really important. So that’s where I am.

  Quentin (05:11)
  Absolutely.

  I love it. I love just your journey from, getting your license when you were 18, just the natural progression that you went from going into different circles and to where you are now. And you have so many different amazing things going on. And I know it’s not always especially easy in this climate. So what’s been the key to keeping that machine running smoothly?

  Carol Brenner (06:21)
  Well, it’s consistency. It’s really important to stay consistent, to stay on your path. ⁓ It’s important to create, like I have a formula. I don’t really stray from that formula. know, the formula is, you know, I create end results or end journeys for each individual project and you stay to those formulas.

  ⁓ It’s not an easy journey, but being able to keep on tack, have great oversight, keeping on your projects, don’t letting things run astray, ⁓ keeping tabs on your purse is what I say a lot, you know, and on materials and personnel, and being able to pivot and having plan A and plan B and C in place all the time. Right now, it’s important that each asset

  Quentin (07:00)
  Haha, yeah yeah yeah.

  Mm.

  Carol Brenner (07:15)
  has multiple trajectories. It’s important to say, well, I know for a fact going in here that if I renovate this and it doesn’t sell within a month, then I’m gonna go ahead and rent it. And you know that those numbers need to fit and fall into place. A lot of things that we’re doing now, ⁓ they are on board for sales, but they’re delayed sales because what we’re doing is creating programs for lease option. ⁓

  creating people that they put in the leases to purchase at a later date ⁓ and you know going forward how much money you’re going to be making currently and how much money you’re going to be in the future. So we’ve brought in all kinds of different programs even with different the cities and the city support ⁓ for ⁓

  housing readiness, financial readiness, working with people on the onset when you put them in there, and even using, believe it or not, using people even with vouchers and getting them ready, like Section 8 vouchers. And this is a huge, important market because we all know that the way the world is working, the way the government is working, ⁓

  Quentin (08:07)
  Yeah.

  Yeah.

  Carol Brenner (08:30)
  cities are tightening their belts, counties are tightening their belts, and even the state government is tightening their belts. And I would say a good 30 percent, I want to say 30 percent of these people, if they had more landlords or more outreach, they could be financially ready to become financially stable without their voucher within a year to 18 months.

  but they need that kind of oversight. So we do a lot of talks and consulting with the people we put in, especially in the single family genre, ⁓ where we’re talking and trying to create savings ⁓ while they’re still on vouchers so that they’re able to become financially stable if those vouchers were able to fail them. So very exciting.

  Quentin (09:16)
  Yeah.

  Yeah. Very exciting.

  Very exciting. And I love the aspect about your business, creating affordable housing. ⁓ Such a service-oriented goal and passion that’s weaved within the integrity of your business. I absolutely, absolutely love that because it’s so well needed. ⁓ And I love how you talked about being able to pivot, right?

  ⁓ they get used to the success, they get used to the end result, but sometimes that’s the process to get us to the end result. And so I would love to know you as an operator, there’s moments when things get real, when the deal goes sideways.

  a time when you had to pivot fast, right? And I was wondering if you could share one of those stories with us in a moment or a time where D.I.L.E. caused you to kind of pivot in the moment.

  Carol Brenner (10:45)
  Yeah, there are a lot of different types of situations that you can get into and you have to pivot and you have to move forward and you can’t falter and you can’t give up. There’s no, there’s no giving up. There’s only two ways in or out, right? You’re either in the ground or I’m standing on top of it, right? You can’t go out. You can’t go backwards, you know? And I see a lot of investors, I want to sell. I mean, I go to properties on the daily that look like, what did you do here? You know?

  Quentin (10:58)
  Sit in her up, there you go. Come on now. Yeah, yeah.

  Carol Brenner (11:13)
  ⁓ because they don’t learn how to pivot. They don’t learn how to say no. ⁓ They’re too involved in the pretty and they start with the pretty. the pretty, ⁓ my father used to say, know, a smart girl is better than a pretty girl, right? You know, so that’s when you wanted to keep us with no boyfriends, right? No boyfriends.

  Quentin (11:24)
  Biggo. Biggo.

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh-huh.

  That

  was his strategy, right? ⁓ Right, right.

  Carol Brenner (11:43)
  But it’s very, very important that people and people, people don’t see these gems. I had a piece of property in Palm Beach County. I swear rats wouldn’t live there. You know, I mean, it was, it was, it had no floors, no windows, no plumbing, no electrical. It was just four walls. And people were very, scared about it being a historic designation.

  They were very scared because it was 4,700 square feet of nothingness and in the middle of the city. And I sat in front of that property for hours looking at it going, what am I going to do with this guy? You know? So, and it wasn’t pretty. It wasn’t pretty at all. But I have to tell you through research and through understanding, I sat.

  Quentin (12:22)
  You

  Carol Brenner (12:32)
  and I looked at that building and I turned it into four three-bedroom, two-bath I bought that building for $200,000. I put, I don’t know, another 500 in, so it’s roughly there about six, seven. And as soon as I opened the door and it was full, and it was full of Section 8 tenants, so I had gotten really good rents because they were three bedrooms. So I knew,

  Quentin (12:44)
  Mm-hmm.

  Carol Brenner (12:57)
  that in that marketplace I wanted larger units. ⁓ And as soon as I opened that door, somebody came across and they said, no, I want to buy this building. I said, you serious? They said, yeah, they bought that building for $1.19 million 12 months later.

  Quentin (13:07)
  Wow, yeah.

  Come

  Carol Brenner (13:13)
  So, you know, I create these spaces from the nothingness. ⁓ Again, make sure number one rule is if it’s not going to bring you more rent,

  Quentin (13:13)
  come on.

  Yeah. ⁓

  Carol Brenner (13:25)
  or more intricate value, or sometimes when you talk about value, it’s real value, like bricks and mortar and space, but there’s also a value in desirability. So you have to calculate the cost of is it this desirability factor gonna be worth it? And when you dissect what kind of value your improvements or your project is, or the work that you’re gonna do in a project.

  Quentin (13:33)
  Yeah.

  Carol Brenner (13:53)
  is going to bring you, that’s when you start talking about real money and if the pretty is worth it. So, it makes sense? So, it’s very important to have these honest conversations with yourself when you’re investing, with your team, with your contractors on what things are really going to cost.

  Quentin (14:00)
  Makes sense to me.

  Carol Brenner (14:11)
  and trying to cut those costs are very intricate in today’s market. if you’re going to, like I talk about affordable housing a lot, affordable housing is totally achievable, 100 % achievable. You have to find it. You have to see it. You have to realize that these homes or these apartment buildings that are scary are scary. I’m not going to say it’s not scary, but… ⁓

  You know, you have to think creatively ⁓ and calculate every step of the way.

  Quentin (14:45)
  No, listen, I appreciate you sharing. I appreciate that story. I appreciate your 30 years shining through because honestly enough people don’t talk about this angle like you’re talking about it. And it shows me the difference from those that just dabble and those that’s in it for the long term. Right. And your approach, your perspective to be able to see the gems that people can’t see. This is why you’re in the game. This is why you get by 200.

  put 500 in it and then sell it for 1.5 million. Right? Because you got the vision. You know what saying? And so when we talk about vision, let me ask you this. What are you most focused on solving or scaling next? Like what’s the next real goal?

  Carol Brenner (16:05)
  The real goal now is trying to create spaces from scratch, basically a build up construction. ⁓

  But I am not focusing on building brand new communities out in suburbs. I’m focusing on infill. So either I’m knocking old properties that are deficient down, if I can, or I’m working on infill lands, creating one by one, filling in those gaps. Because when you have properties that are distressed within a community, that’s what keeps your community down. That’s what keeps your rents down. That’s what keeps your values down.

  So solving those real problems and the reality is when I look at them, I see that they’re achievable and small. ⁓ It’s just a matter of cooperation. Cooperation with city, cooperation with neighbors, cooperation with homeowners and getting those properties at the right prices. So what I’m looking in is different types of building systems that truly, truly are achievable.

  but not only achievable, but truly are money saving. So when I look, there’s all kinds of things. You’re inundated now with wonderful tech. It’s amazing. It’s beautiful. But is it real? That’s the question. Is it real? So I’m all about keeping it real. Okay? That’s the whole thing. I put the real value in real estate, okay? know, keeping it real. You know, so the reality is, that when I look at these systems, I say, are the faults?

  Quentin (17:22)
  the of part.

  Mm-hmm.

  Wooo! Let’s go! Yeah!

  Carol Brenner (17:37)
  I mean, we could go through them if you wanted to. I mean, you take an example of printing. Printing, oh, it’s wonderful to have printing machines. Those machines are upwards of 500, a million dollar machines. You’re gonna put that machine on a job site and leave it there with no security? So yeah, you got the machine, how you gonna secure the machine? So that means you’re gonna hire somebody to watch the machine. That’s another cost. What about if the machine breaks? Then you’re.

  If you have no other people that can back you up, right? To build the stuff. If that machine is out of service, what you’re gonna do? Can you get another machine? What is that gonna cost? What’s it gonna cost you in time? What’s it gonna cost you in breakage? Because if you’re in the middle of process, you’re building half a wall, your machine breaks. What are you gonna do? How are you gonna do it? So I looked into that and I saw those holes and I said, ⁓ I don’t wanna have that problem.

  Also, there’s a cost in making the city understand what kind of new tech you’re going to bring them because they’re not so equipped to insect properties that have new tech. So then I looked at modular and I said, okay, what are the pitfalls of modular? And there are great things about modular and there’s different types of modular. There’s full modular where they drop past the house and put the house together and you’re done, right? Well, then I talk about strength.

  What is the lifespan of that type of property? What kind of repairs will we have? Because we’re talking about wood structures or structures that are somewhat not as strong. How do we straighten those up? What are the costs on that? And I said, well, I don’t, I don’t really like that idea either because I got to straighten it up. I got to watch it. I’m not really, and the costs seem to be the same. So then I started looking at the cost of SIP construction.

  Quentin (19:17)
  Yeah.

  Carol Brenner (19:23)
  And that really started to peak my vision because I said, well, if they build the walls in the factory and then I physically have my hands on them, they come to the site pretty much halfway assembled and I got to put them together. At least I can see the construction going together and I could see if there’s any issues at that point. And then there’s six different kinds of SIP constructions. So I had to dissect those. And when I came to

  Quentin (19:38)
  you

  Yeah.

  Carol Brenner (19:51)
  understanding of what our next project is going to be is a combination hybrid of SIP construction where the walls are there, but I’m still constructing them and having concrete style and strength. So what I’m working on now is engineered walls where they come to the site, but they’re just the form of the wall. And then I sort of, I put them together, they’re insulated panels and I sprayed them.

  Quentin (20:13)
  Mmm.

  Yeah.

  Carol Brenner (20:18)
  with concrete and that full structure. Because the problem with SIP construction or even some of the structures that are like Legos where you put them together and you fill them with concrete, you still have wood on the property. You still have penetration because you have to put a trust roof. So in my feeling, I wanted a solid sealed building that I created myself. So a hybrid of the two.

  Quentin (20:20)
  Mmm.

  Yeah.

  Carol Brenner (20:43)
  I also

  with this system am able to try to bring in people to the construction world that may not be 100 % skilled because I need less actual labor that are skilled labor and more movement. Because if those materials are coming all to the property, I need less of a skilled way of force. So that’s a reduction in cost. Cleanliness of your site, that’s a reduction in cost.

  Reduction of having to have engineered factors like roofs and trusses because everything is coming in one shot. That’s a reduce of your cost. And then clean energy because these buildings are completely insulated with an insulation that is far superior than putting insulation into the clock. So those are the exciting things that I think a combination of knowledge, research, tech come together onto a site.

  Quentin (21:19)
  Yeah.

  Yeah.

  Carol Brenner (21:36)
  to trickle down to affordable housing. I’m able to construct right now, my budget right now for a four unit, three bedroom, two bath, four units on a piece of land that I received from TaxLean, which was almost free. I’m able to construct a four unit for less than 400,000 in area where a four unit will never be less than 600, 500, 600,000. That’s brand new construction. We’re not even talking about the value of brand new construction.

  Quentin (21:45)
  Mm-hmm.

  Wow. Mm.

  Carol Brenner (22:05)
  And let’s talk about insurance costs. When you building new and you building right and you’re building green, you’re building insulated and you’re building hurricane resistant up to 190,000 miles per hour, you’re also building resistant to fire 90 minutes, your insurance costs will go down. But it takes somebody to sit and tell insurance agent, hello, excuse me. No, we didn’t think about this. And what about this?

  Quentin (22:07)
  Yeah.

  Carol Brenner (22:32)
  Here is my product approval, you know, for these items. So these are the exciting things that I think the combination of tech, it’s not just in my opinion, let’s go there, okay. In my opinion, it’s not just one tech, it’s a combination hybrid of traditional and non-traditional building practices that truly bring you a new product that is ⁓ got the green aspect to it, but… ⁓

  Quentin (22:33)
  Yeah.

  Yeah.

  Carol Brenner (22:59)
  you try to eliminate those loopholes of what tech can bring you.

  Quentin (23:02)
  Yeah, I

  absolutely love it. mean, all this you said is so big from the infills to the ⁓ engineered walls. I mean, just to your process, like you said, you stay true to your process. And I know you know this, like the next move, can either compound things or create total chaos. But what I love about you is that you see the distress, you live in the chaos. You’re able to see the distress and the chaos and bring the beauty out of it. So I absolutely love it.

  Carol Brenner (23:24)
  I live in the chaos. That’s absolutely true.

  Quentin (23:30)
  So I want to ask you this, I think this is my last question and then I’m get you out of here. I know a lot of people that are listening and they’re either early on their journey or they’re looking to level up. And I think that benefit hearing this from you, when it comes to building your relationships and growing your network, what’s made the biggest difference for you, Miss Girl?

  Carol Brenner (23:48)
  building relationships with people with, you know, I said this just yesterday, you’re not a soul, you’re not a soul wolf. You can’t be a solo wolf in this journey. You’re going to have to partner with people that can help you fix, build. You’re gonna have to understand what your city wants and what that permitting process is gonna be like.

  investigate and meet those people and put them in a place where they serve you on your team. The second thing is of course your funding partners. Know your funding partners. I work backwards. I work what does the funder feel like funding today and does that fit into my formula? You know and I work when I have the funding.

  Quentin (24:36)
  Mmm.

  Carol Brenner (24:39)
  It’s like, if you fund it, I will build it. But to a point, you know, it’s not just anything, you know? So that’s the second part. The third part is having people on your team, because I believe that there’s an energy exchange when you talk things out, even if you’re venting. And when people come and they wanna work with me or they wanna work for me, I tell them, listen.

  You gotta not be offended, okay? When I have to talk things out and work things out ⁓ and you’re under the wire a lot here. ⁓ There are deadlines. There are deadlines to acquire property. If I gotta run to the courthouse to make a payment before that gavel hits, there is high intent. So you have to not be offended and again, move forward.

  Stop being stuck in your own cement shoes and do what’s comfortable for you. Start out what’s comfortable for you. I want to tell you I’m going to date myself now. Oh Lord. Okay, here we go. It was 1995. Okay, and all my friends were heading into college, which I was too. Okay, but I was a different kind of color student. Okay, my mother.

  who is my predecessor, bought an office right at the mouth of the college. Okay, so I went to school in the morning at seven. Took out one, two classes, came to the office at nine o’clock, went back to school at six o’clock. Because it was comfortable and it was important to have that trajectory. But I’m gonna tell you another story. All my friends had fancy apartments, okay? And I bought myself a $30,000 condo.

  Quentin (26:03)
  Mmm.

  Carol Brenner (26:24)
  Right around the side of college and people said, oh, you live here? And I said, I own it. It’s okay. You know, I was here. Well, I that condo for 30,000. And after I became my second year of college and I use this term because it simplifies our process, right? Because we think about school as simplified, right? So I bought that $30,000 condo. I sold that condo for 110. And I had money now.

  to buy myself my first duplex. And I’ve been turning the same $60,000, I think, for the last 30 years. And I tell this story to a lot of people because I tell that to moms too. Because I said, how much money are you going to go spend and rent for your child to stay in school? And would you like to get that money 100 % plus back? Or maybe even get your money for school back? So I simplify these things in different

  genres of people’s life journey. I tell people, single people, my husband, who is my student, okay, 20 years ago, his first question to me is, how do I make money in this business? And I said, he says, I want to double my income. And I said, honey, if you want to double your income, get married to somebody who has equal income to you, because there are no guarantees in life.

  But what is guaranteed is that if you have people that are like-minded, that are going to enhance your journey with you and have the same income, you know, that’s a hundred percent, that’s going to double your money, but you got to work it. There’s no guarantees. I said it as a joke. I didn’t think the guy was going to marry me. Okay. I just think so. It was top-laying, right? So, you know, I

  Quentin (27:56)
  Yeah.

  The joke was on you. He wasn’t playing. The joke was on you. He wasn’t playing. Yeah.

  Carol Brenner (28:11)
  I’ve hundreds of them. I’ve got hundreds of these stories. Because I think that anything. But the reality is people get their dander up and they don’t lighten up a little bit. Listen, I’m four and a half feet tall. I told you that, right? I’m a woman, right? I’ve been in this business a long time. I don’t look the part that I’m supposed to be, right? I’ve had little old ladies that try to offer me cookies and milk. You know, I can’t be offended.

  Quentin (28:12)
  Yeah, absolutely.

  Carol Brenner (28:38)
  You know, you can’t be offended. You gotta move forward. And these socio-mental aspects of people’s life hold them back. I can’t do that. Who said you can’t do that? You know, people come to me and they don’t have money or they feel that they’re scared to make that monthly payment. Well, then maybe you need to, you know, I tell people, well, did you ever think about buying a duplex?

  They said, I can’t do that. I said, if you can buy one, you can buy two. And that second guy, he’s your wife. He could help you. You know, so that’s what I, you know, you gotta think more globally, creatively. And I think that’s what has gotten me going, kept me going all these years. ⁓ You gotta put yourself in little buckets and where are those profit centers in those buckets? ⁓ I tell you, I give people deals all the time.

  Quentin (29:09)
  There you go.

  Absolutely. Absolutely.

  Carol Brenner (29:33)
  I said, okay, you owe me a little referral fee. No wholesaling involved. You know, it’s a big journey and you gotta constantly be on, constantly sell.

  Quentin (29:35)
  There you go. Come on. There you go.

  Yeah,

  yeah, absolutely. My dear, I thank you so much. I think this has been absolutely phenomenal. But listen, before we wrap, if someone wanted to reach out to you, connect with you, or maybe collaborate or learn more about what you’re doing, what’s the best way for them to reach out to you?

  Carol Brenner (29:52)
  Okay.

  I’m available. Phone, planes, trains, automobiles, know, whatever you got. The best thing is I still pick up my phone. So yes, I’m an old lady too. So you want me to tell you my phone number? You got digits? You want digits? You should reach me by phone. This also will do a text. It’s my office number.

  Quentin (30:16)
  It’s, if you want them to contact with you, listen, put it out there if you want them to get in contact with you for sure, it’s up to you.

  Carol Brenner (30:27)
  It’s 561-566-5081.

  Quentin (30:32)
  I it.

  I love it. But there she is, Ms. Brenner. Listen, ma’am, thank you so much. Thank you for your stories. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your perspective. It’s a pleasure getting to know you. It’s a pleasure getting to talk to you. And we need more people like you within this business that’s doing it the right way. So again, thank you so much.

  Carol Brenner (30:51)
  All right, thank you. was great meeting you. Great being here.

  Quentin (30:53)
  Absolutely.

  Absolutely. Thank you. And so everyone else, heard it. You’ve listened. You got value out of this conversation. So go ahead and subscribe. You don’t want to miss out on these conversations. We’re going to keep them coming. You’re going to keep seeing me. I’m going to keep bringing you people that’s just amazing, just like Miss Carol. So make sure you subscribe.