Transaction Coordination for Real Estate Investors

Mike Hambright (00:01.646)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. Today I’m here with an old friend, Casey Smith. But you’re not old. I didn’t say you’re old. We’re just having an old friendship. We’ve friends for a long time. That’s a lot of wisdom, yeah. And we’re going be talking about the wild world of transaction coordination and how it actually saves your business a lot more money than what it costs, right? So how are you? I’m great. Good to see Better than ever. It’s been a while. It has. I’m rising from the ashes of burnout.

Okay. You’re not alone. Yeah, I know a lot of people went through the last couple years, but I just put my head down and just… Which we got to do sometimes as owners, you know? It happens. Well, that’s how evolution works, right? Like you… Something happens, you hit a wall, you get burned out or whatever. Crash and burn maybe, and you just got to get up and get to the next level. I just did a video on that. We did some social media stuff earlier and I was like… I just kind of gave this analogy of how the best athletes in the world…

at one point didn’t know how to Right? is true. I mean, if you think about that as an entrepreneur, it’s like, they learned how to walk, then they learned how to run, then they learned how to do the thing, and they learned how to do it better and better and better. That’s how we are. It’s just you have to evolve. Yeah. And I think we always talk about these sayings, but then you start living the saying. know, like, Like, you know, they always say the five to seven year rule, like, businesses either fail at five years or seven years. I understand why. I totally get it. And it’s an adaptation. And if you don’t.

Have a process a lot of businesses fail too is this, don’t talk about this a lot, but people just quit because it gets hard and they hit a wall and they’re not the leader they need to be to get to the next level or they don’t have the, they’re not, they’re not dreaming big enough. So they get stagnant and then they’re just like, oh, I’m going to go day trade crypto now. Like they just moved to something else. So true. That is easy for a few years. And then that too gets hard. And if you just keep starting over, you’re never, you never get anywhere. That is, that is honestly the perfect summary.

And that’s what it, and I had a moment where I’m like burn it down. But then I rest. I know we joke we quit real estate every week right? But I’ve really learned how to like rest in this season and regain the clarity to see okay where am I focusing on things? Which I think a.

Mike Hambright (02:10.924)
Transaction coordinator needs to do anyway. So it’s kind of a natural thing I developed. And it’s kind of just applied to everything. So I agree more than anything. So what is transaction coordination? How do you describe it? Because you are the queen transaction coordinator. I know. I always hate that term. But I like to call it the empress of DCing. think it’s just one of those. So transaction coordinating just for basic foundation is usually a role.

in acquiring or selling property where they’re basically handling from the day that contract is signed to when it’s closed. And so when we look at our businesses and real estate investing, you kind of break it down to acquisitions and dispositions, right? Which are like kind of sales ends. And then you’ve got your like CEO and your operations and maybe you have an admin. But people always forget who’s taking care of…

all of the commitments made in that contract, the roadmap that you’ve put out that can take 30 to 45 days, which in this market longer, with the more creative strategies. I always say the salespeople earn the deal, but the TC is the one protecting the reward. And that risk translates now from marketing dollars and capturing a lead to execution. And so that opportunity cost is happening.

in that space of who’s actually able to keep that contract together. Because if people were honest about their numbers out there, what they contract is very different from what they close. No doubt. I always say every real estate investor, every number from a real estate investor has an asterisk next Right? Yeah. But I think that we put so much weight on it being the acquisitions or the research side of things. But I would argue it’s that transactional time frame. And if somebody’s not doing it and you’re trying to pull someone else to do it, that’s where.

chaos happens. And it’s simple things. I was just thinking about this. One of the challenges with transaction coordination or investors the way they think about it or the way they don’t think about it is it’s not on the P &L if you save a deal or you lose a deal. It’s just not on the P &L. It’s almost like for your rentals, vacancy is not on there. It results in lower revenue. But it’s not like you see your cost of vacancy is this. And if people saw that explicitly, they would be like,

Mike Hambright (04:30.255)
my god, this is costing us so much money. How do we get better? That’s a good point. I wonder if we could add good points. No, that’s a really good. I’ve looked at it that way, like thought of it, but I’ve never thought about how to show it. Because it’s really, you can look at your KPIs and be like, and I’m training TC’s on KPIs. They’re like, wait, what? There’s high performing teams that don’t even track transactional KPIs. They only look at that sales. And so what they’re doing is they’re taking out that lens by wrapping it up into your lead costs.

Right. Well, yeah, if you have a deal fall through, not only does it reduce your revenue, you start to do stuff like, obviously, I own a lead gen company as well. And so what happens is if people have deals falling through, like a deal going through versus failing gives you a higher ROAS on your advertising. Like your advertising looks like it did a better job. Really, it was the TC that saved it that made the advertising look better. And then the effect of that is people say, this channel is not working very well. And then they stop that marketing channel.

And it’s like, just killed a whole bunch of stuff where the real problem was you had too many deals falling through. I mean, that could be a thing. Also, not answering your phone live, there’s a bunch of things. But if you have deals falling through or you’re not doing certain things in the sales pipeline, and they always blame the marketing. Well, that marketing is not working. It’s like, if you don’t answer your phone live, or half of your deals are falling through because you’re not, because you know.

You have your mom doing your TC work or whatever. Yeah, or somebody who, like the acquisition guys who are really a sales training role, trying to do paperwork or trying to submit it, or the barrier to getting it to the next stage is not there. So you’re right. You look at how you’re looking at your numbers and what’s working. I mean, that’s why we have SOPs, right? It’s to be able to pinpoint where in the process are we feeling that bottleneck and pain, and how can we reduce time frames for efficiency.

We started tracking for a long time why deals were terminating. And we had like categories for the longest time, just for internal observation. And we found that a lot of it, cause we always wanted to know, well, what is in our control and what can we fix as a TC and how do we differentiate? Because a TC gets blamed for a lot, they’re, they can only be so much in control. Like there’s so many parties that have their role in it that they simply can’t do like an attorney.

Mike Hambright (06:46.439)
or a lender or somebody like that. So their role is really being proactively following up and knowing how to answer, or sorry, ask the right questions to the right people to make sure that the expectations are clear. And so what we found was the number one reason they fell out, outside of that typical blind offer property issue, which is in their control to some degree, it’s literally communication with the seller, setting the right expectation day one.

because no one was there to follow it up. And so they don’t hear from you, your investor, for what, two, three weeks? And someone else comes along. Somebody comes around there, but you’re And they’re like, well, I haven’t heard from them. I don’t even know if we’re in contact, because they’re just not savvy about that. It’s that simple. So we found that the lack of communication, and truthfully, a lot of my clients’ processes for acquisitions was so chaotic that we weren’t getting deals for days. Little things like that can really derail. And then,

obviously title issues that come up, we’re getting better about vetting them. But if something really major comes up and you don’t know how to explain it to a five-year-old or somebody who’s in distress or somebody who might not have that background, you can lose it real quick because you promised them you could close it, cash no problems, and now we have problems that you need their help on, but you didn’t set the right expectation that they might have to participate to some level. Right. Yeah, yeah. So I think those little things really add up.

And we found that the term rates were really attributed to that. And then the biggest one was just a lack of being a disposition process and finding buyers. So we would spend weeks saving a deal, getting judgments and payoffs and negotiating things to clear it, only to have it sit for months because they can’t find a buyer. Or they cancel the contract, right? Yeah, or something just randomly happens. And so TCs don’t get paid on that if you’re on a per-fee basis. So it matters.

You have a responsibility to that person on your team whether they’re a third party or in-house because that’s typically how they get paid. For the most part. And I’m guilty of that. mean, there were no services like yours or nobody talking about TC work when I was coming up. Yeah. know, hundreds of houses here. And I always just had an admin in my office handle it. But they were never experts. The truth is, is it was a combination of me having an admin in my office handle it and allowing the title company to just kind of.

Mike Hambright (09:07.361)
do some of those communications, which is not good, because we don’t have control. so bad things happen, and it’s out of my control. And you’re right. I was the stereotypical, like, hey, we got one on the board. Go do the stuff you’re supposed to do and tell us when it’s done. Which I think is natural to understand, because I think we often think we’ve communicated to the seller what’s going on. But just because we said something doesn’t mean it was received or understood. And I think that’s a huge thing that people miss. I also think that’s a huge thing people miss.

in the profile of a TC because I don’t think people understand how influential that role is. Like the best TC’s I’ve ever experienced are persuaders. They’re people who are influential high on the I. A little more, a little, bless you, a little more not dominant in an ego way. Like they can be, they can take control and be proactive, but they’re able to read the personalities that can be in a party and be able to navigate it based on that.

Title companies not gonna have a pulse or build rapport. They’re just gonna communicate direct information Correct and we’ve had title companies blow up deals where we’ve had to ask them Please do not communicate without our approval and we would only call on them when we needed their authority Like the seller maybe didn’t believe us or they were told something and they don’t trust us So then we would say hey, we’re gonna have the attorney reach out to explain We would use it that way and that was a lot more productive because then you’ve got the backup of the neutral third party

and then you’ve got you navigating and understanding because you’ve been talking with them for weeks. And then sometimes your acquisitions and dispositions want to get involved in the communication after they’ve been removed. Huge no-no as well because you’re not involved in that day to day. You don’t know what’s been said, what’s been done, what’s shifted, what’s changed. And so if you’re a squirrel on fire as an acquisition, I often describe them as, because I am one, so I get it.

You’re just checking in because you have that mental load of wanting to know where your deals are, because that’s how you get paid. But it causes such chaos that it kills deals. So we try to get all that out and just focus on that person’s skill set and saying, you’re in charge. You’re the captain. You’re the general on a hill looking at all the parties. Who’s on fire? Who’s getting slaughtered? Who’s on track? And you’re able to delegate and direct better. So I look at them more as a managerial position.

Mike Hambright (11:30.786)
can hire assistants to work under them, but you really need that knowledge on that person who’s in charge of it and accountable for reporting what’s going on. Yeah, I think a lot of real estate investors most, they talk to a seller the same way they talk to a wholesaler they might sell to, or they talk to a retail agent they might be selling to. They talk to the same way. And we forget, as an investor, this might be your second, fifth, 10th deal of the month. And for the seller, this is the first time they’ve ever done this. Correct.

But we talk to them very transactionally, and we use words that they don’t know. Or here’s one that’s a silent killer, is your frustration that they need handholding. So if your acquisitions are an owner stepping in to do that, I’ve had them get like, well, they’re being so emotional. And I’m like, whoa, perspective. It’s a very key core value here. And we’ve had to remove clients and be like, I want you to know.

We’re gonna charge you a full file fee if you screw this up because we’re good with it And so we’ve had sellers that even like I don’t want to talk to that person I will only speak to you for that exact reason so they get to Kind of condescending with it, and I don’t even know if they realize that they’re doing it, but it’s very subtle and so You know work you’re overloaded as an owner when you’re when you have so many hats on and you want someone in that position to think like you that’s why we have so much difficulty letting go of control of the transactional piece

or at least I’ve experienced quite a few people like that. I speak as myself, we are the problem. But that is the case, right? Because you’re just not trusting them to get it done. So why would you hire someone in that position that doesn’t have the experience to think and make the decisions like you need to? Because when I first started this company, the amount of people that told me it’s impossible to scale it the way that I have, and it is hard, but they said it wasn’t possible to do nationwide in all these varieties because there’s too many what ifs.

And what’s our favorite thing in real estate? depends. So it’s like, so when you look at your process of TCing, what’s the next step? Well, if this, then this. If this, do you know? And so there’s a thought process that has to happen. And if they don’t have the big picture of understanding not only how title issues and legality works, but also communication cues, and also how creative deals are structured and why you’re doing it that way.

Mike Hambright (13:49.058)
They’re not going to understand when you all of a sudden change it from a innovation to a wholesale deal. It’s going to fluster them. And then they have to mentally be like, well, what’s the difference? What’s shifted here? When in reality, they’re very similar in concept, but in paperwork and legality, the operation of what you do, the paperwork, matters. Because it protects your role in the deal. So that’s kind how I’ve approached training TCs or helping people hire them is you’ve got to look at them as way more skilled.

and what they can do for your peace of mind. Because they’re taking that mental energy off of you to know where 10 plus deals are at a time. Right, yeah. For people that have their own in-house TC, what’s the right way? I also think that, I’m just thinking of myself, honestly, is a lot of, we might have a lot of deals kind of on the board. And I’m just like, let me know if you have any problems. But there’s no real kind of KPI. mean, we didn’t use a lot of KPIs to track where are we in the process and not just like,

Is it clear to close? I just want to hear. Clear to close. I want hear three words. You’re probably a good Boston. to close. You know? I just want to know when it’s done and let me know when there’s a problem. I always tell my team, I just never want to be surprised. That’s a good thing we say in our team. It’s like, I just don’t want to be surprised. I trust you to handle it until you can’t. But if you feel it’s going wayward, give me a heads up so we can make sure we fleshed out and that we’re prepared. Because not everything is your fault. But if you can prevent it. But I think with the KPI things,

I get this question a lot because you’re right, a lot of people don’t think about it. And so I’ve been doing some training on this recently with some in-house teams. And they’ve been reaching out with me about what they should track. And I always say, well, it depends on what your goal is. Are you looking for like operational inefficiency? Are you looking for your ROI? Are you looking for team efficiency? All those things matter in what you would like look at and track. But I think the big thing is I think it’s underrated in

predicting your cash conversion cycle. Because you talk about your lead gen roles and whatnot, but your days to close is your cash conversion cycle at the end of the day. So understanding how long that takes and what it looks like and what the percentage of fallout is and what that opportunity cost is there, I think that’s a huge one that you can implement pretty easily and quickly. And then whoever’s in that role as the TC, they should be tracking operational KPIs to make sure that they’re handing off

Mike Hambright (16:16.213)
appropriately, efficiently, data’s clean and secure and updated so that people have a central place to go to without having to pull them away with a phone call or a tap on the, just real quick, because those real quicks, got a minute, I just need to know, add up so quickly, and then the TC can’t perform because they need to be at that computer. They need to pick up that phone just like the lead gen does. Because if an attorney calls because you’ve been trying to get a hold of them for a week and you can finally figure out if you got that court hearing done or not,

If you don’t pick up that call, it could be another week before you hear from them again. So that kind of stuff. And putting policy in place is a KPI too. How quickly does a seller get called when you get a contract? The policy aspect of it. And so kind of tracking, we track some daily, weekly, and monthly and quarterly KPIs. So we don’t try to overload it, but it just kind of helps touch all those points. So how many, I know this is a little bit of a loaded question, but how many?

transactions, could a good TC in-house handle? And then I guess part of that question is, for some investors, if you say, let’s just, I don’t know what you’re going to say, but let’s say you say 15, right? Well, what if the person’s only doing three deals a month in their business or five deals a month in their business, and they can’t keep that person busy? So is it better to have a TC that does other things or an admin that does some TC work? Or are they the same? That is a really loaded question. Or are they the same thing? I would probably break it down like this. You’re really going to have to assess first where you are and where you want to go.

Because if you’re a lone ranger that is a one-man show, or maybe you’ve got a partner and you’re kind of doing all the things, outsource it. Because you don’t have the time or capacity to build training or onboarding. And you’re probably not going be able to keep them busy enough for an in-house, right? Unless they do other things. Unless they do other things. So to answer that question, it really depends on what those other things are. Because I see a lot of people combine that transaction coordinator role with an admin role or a runner role.

a TC, do not pull them from their computer. Just do not. So having them have to go to a property, I had one team I was consulting for quite some time. This one woman, and they were really high volume, maybe 150 deals a year, one woman, in multiple markets, and she was driving to every closing as a TC. And they were like, we’re stuck, we can’t grow, we just have to hire more TC’s. We started consulting them and realized, well, if you’re gonna have someone run in,

Mike Hambright (18:37.143)
bring a rep, but keep her here because it’s slowing all this stuff down. So they ended up hiring two assistants for her to do that backend response and take a pulse on things so she could be the runner, because they thought it was important, because they were very big on being in person. So a perfect example of if you really value your TC being present at every closing or building, you know, getting reviews or.

spending more time in the communication piece, then you might want to consider hiring a VA or an assistant or somebody or having an admin on your team pick up some of that piece of the TC work that’s a little bit more predictable and consistent, like doing paperwork or answering the emails or monitoring or something like that. So I would say to answer your other question about capacity.

This is all going to depend on the complexity of the deals you’re using, the number of markets that you’re in, and how often do they have to switch modes from a wholesale deal, which is pretty straightforward and quick and easy, to innovation, which is a lot more parties and complication, to doing one in Florida versus doing one in the Northeast where an attorney’s might be involved. So I think all of those components will all play a factor. So to not circumvent the it depends answer, my team

deals with a lot of complexity in multiple markets with multiple clients with different systems and processes. And I would say because of the way we set up the support and the operation, which is just how I figured out how to do it, they should be able to do anywhere from 60 to 90 contracts at one time with at least an assistant that can pick up the phone, help order payoffs, help with paperwork, storage, things like that. I would say with one assistant, that should be it.

We have one team that we work with as a third party. They’re very large. They have a huge team of TC’s and we outsourced one of ours for them in a bind and they’re like, we’ll cap her at 40 because it’s in a high compliance state. And so I was like, she can do one. They’re like, we’ll see. So even though it’s one deal type, it’s in such a high red tape state that she needs to be a little bit more attentive. And so they didn’t want to you know, cap her at that, but she’s got other clients with me. So.

Mike Hambright (20:50.349)
She’s actually more at a 60, 70 mark. And that’s, I’ve noticed quality of life because we have a flex policy in my company. Like don’t have hours. You work to get your job done and it’s flexible. And I’d wanted to avoid burnout because burnout is such a huge thing. So a caveat to that number is if their experience is brand new from zero, which all of my TC’s are trained from zero, they will burn. That was gonna be one of my questions.

What’s a common background? Well, let’s come back to that. Yeah, I’ll come back to that one. But I decided to pick from zero because TC’s are really well known for realtors, but not necessarily for investors. And the profile is different because their role is a little bit different. And so I found that training from zero was easier than breaking habits. And I found that at 30 deals, they had their first meltdown.

And it required me to go in one-on-one and help them operationally understand how to manage their complexity with the resources we had. And so they had to learn how to work and organize themselves according to their personality. So we had some standards in place, but we allowed the freedom for them to adapt to how they work and they could cap at their own. Then once we got past that stage, you’d get to 60 and that’s, or 50-ish, 50-ish would be a better number. We’ll see them break down again.

And now it’s a leadership problem because at that range, they probably have an assistant under them or somebody working with, and now they have to learn how to delegate. And that’s whole nother skill set of leadership. And so that’s when I was telling you earlier about how when we lost our COO and decided not to replace them, I kind of made them mini COOs of their own operation so that they had a little bit more say in authority. And I found that their range of capacity increased significantly doing that.

And kind of giving them ownership over the pieces of who they work with, why. So they have full authority to tell me when somebody is being a complicated client because they’ve, our job is to get you efficient. So if you’re not responsive and working with us in a productive way, it causes that friction. And that’s where they’ll come in and be like, this is the reason why I don’t think they’re a good fit. It’s causing me X amount of extra time. Here’s how I’m approaching it, doing it. Do you have suggestions? Otherwise we need to have a, we call them coming to Jesus meetings, but.

Mike Hambright (23:05.709)
Like on saying, hey, what can we do to make our teams work more efficiently or not? And I think that those are all factors that would play into that number. so what’s a common background, would you say? Common? You might speak in PI terms. I might. But I’m saying what are, they need to be detail-oriented. They need to be, obviously, a great communicator. is there any commonality? Like, hey, I like to get people that used to do this. It’s social profiles for investors. So what people forget is that.

You some bigger teams might have people that fully only handle like the b2c side of deals or maybe only the a2b and things like that. So Their ability to see big picture I think is critical Now with realtors because the realtor plays such an important role in communication, right? They’re the ones negotiating. They’re the ones that are Getting the appointments and building rapport and then they pass to their tcs, but they still like to be the main communicator

So you tend to get TC’s that are very detail oriented but don’t have good flexibility. So if something goes wrong out of their checklist, they can’t figure out why or how to account for it. And they get lost in it. And that’s when they get frazzled. So you really need somebody as an investor who can see the big picture, understand why we decided to switch to what we did, or understand how to approach something, and then be able to readjust the expectation for somebody.

And so that’s why I say a social profile is so key because not only are they accountable to you as the client and your team, like reporting to you, letting you know what we can do differently and leaning on them for advice, you know, they’re also doing the day to day with all the other parties, the lenders and that sort of thing. And so a really good example of that would be, I was working with someone’s TC on the, I was as the realtor, someone else, the buyer agents for realtor TC or whatever they are.

And I get on the phone with their lenders, even though it’s not my client, because I don’t trust that they understand the process because it was an FHA loan that needed a second appraisal. I already knew that. And I don’t think the other agent or the TC understood. So I interjected and said, hey, can we get that second appraisal? And they freaked out about it and didn’t know what to do and caused days. And I said, I just need to know when that’s. So I went ahead and reached out.

Mike Hambright (25:31.872)
Anyway, long story short, it ended up being that the realtor decided instead of asking me what my seller bought the property for and et cetera, they tried to look up public records but didn’t have the knowledge to know that if it was certain cash sales or whatnot, you’re not gonna know those numbers and so that changes.

probably vague for people out there that don’t know the FHA rule I’m talking about, but a good TC would have been able to anticipate and see and know that that had to be done and be able to look over where her TC was just baffled and had no idea that was a thing. It didn’t even know to ask about it, didn’t know any of it was just a retail one that really doesn’t deal with a lot of issues or might not deal with a lot of investor sellers and things like that. So it’s just the nuance of understanding those little things that could be a hiccup and being able to call them out.

And I just don’t think a lot of real Tertese or detail-oriented profiles have the flexibility or the vision where they’re able to collaboratively put it all together. Not an insult, just a different… It’s a different world. Just a different world. So what are the common ways that people, obviously they can do it themselves, DIY, they can hire a service like yours that’s kind of done for you, where you provide it as a service. What are the most common ways in…

When would you tell people to choose one versus the other? Yeah, I would say if you’re a really small team and you don’t know TCing and you haven’t done it yourself, you don’t know what you don’t know, just shorten the learning curve and hire an expert. Just hire someone that knows what they’re doing. Budget is a big thing here, but there’s a lot of different ways you can structure paying a TC. Sure, you can do an hourly labor cost, but if you’re just getting started, you could also hire someone that maybe has title background or a TC background or even just an investment background that likes doing it and partner with them.

Even a 5 to 10 % on a deal that they get done is worth it. Now they got skin in the game, it’s worth it. They’re not getting paid pennies. They’re not looking for other opportunities and they’ll build with you because they’re a part of that process. So that’s a really good way to look at it that I don’t think anyone has. You can hire hourly, but they might be split with other people if you don’t have enough work for them. And so your expectations of their availability to you is gonna shift. And so be mindful of that because

Mike Hambright (27:44.218)
You might think that it’s a fire, but it’s not a fire. Like I had some people that would be like, I need to know if the EMD was in. I’m like, why? They have three more days. I just need to know. And we’re like, OK, well, that’s not really a fire contract wise. If there’s another reason for that, explain. But you know, those types of things. And then I would say the only reason to really bring it in-house is if you’re really big on having people in the same space, which some people do operate better that way, like a command center.

And you have systems and processes in place that they can follow or you need to hire someone with the experience to put them in place for you. So you’re gonna have to really ask yourself where you are and what you wanna put time and energy into because I promise you, I’ve spent seven years making, I have 200 checklists, I’ve got hundreds of process maps and we are always changing and editing them and it is a full-time job.

No doubt. And tracking KPIs and figuring out why things fall through and reporting that back to clients and things, it entails a lot more and can be really great for your operation. understand, I think first understand the value of it and then figure out how valuable it is to you for where you’re at and figure out the right person to hire that way. You can do it cheap, but I just, I’m not, I’m not for using virtual assistants as the main TC’s.

because some of them can be really great, but they require just a lot of training and experience, and they just don’t really have the language skills mostly to be able to react when things don’t go according to script. And I’ve seen a lot of deals fall through with VAs just because of that. somebody refuses to do something, and they’ll say like, OK.

Rather than wait, but we could do it this and this is that an option They just don’t have that kind of critical thinking because of the experience gap. Yeah, so that’s the only reason I’m usually against it But they’re really good on the back end or for support. Yeah, awesome Well Casey if folks want to learn more about you or connect with you, can they go? Yeah, so best way to connect is my website is www.atlasTCservices.com You can see a wide range of services that we do there. You can even submit one-off title resolution requests, which is kind of cool way. There’s a

Mike Hambright (29:56.0)
a form on there that will schedule a direct call with me. So if you want to get in touch. We also have a really cool community we launched at school.com slash atlas TC collective, which is if you do have a TC that you want to train or get connected with us, you can check out that landing page and get a feel for the things we train and do. And then of course, Facebook, can always find me at Casey Smith Atlas. And it’s a great way to connect there as well. Awesome. Good stuff. Thanks for.

Thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me. It’s great to reconnect. stuff, for sure. Yeah. Well, guys, hope you got some good value from today. mean, at the end of the day, it kind of takes a village to run your business. You shouldn’t try to become a jack of all trades. You didn’t get into business to wear 15 different hats or more. And so sometimes you end up there. But at the end of the day, it’s just a matter of making sure you have the right training, working with the right people, and things like that. So appreciate you guys a bunch.