Mastering Real Estate: Balancing Passive & Active Income for Success

Mike Hambright (00:00.812)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. Today I’m with my good friend Mathew Owens. We haven’t talked for a little while. We talk probably once or twice a year. I have feeling we’re gonna be talking a lot more frequently here. This guy is a beast. We’re gonna be talking about a lot of really amazing stuff today, including what the benefits are of being both passive and active in your business. I think for, mean, Mathew’s got all sorts of businesses. I’ve got a bunch of businesses. And you just kind of start stacking stuff on as you grow in your career. And the goal for most of us is to get more passive, so.

but there are a lot of benefits to still being active and making active income. So it’s gonna be a great show. I encourage you to stick around. So Matthew, what’s up, buddy?

Mathew Owens, CPA (00:36.441)
How’s it going man? Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it man.

Mike Hambright (00:38.732)
Yeah, good to see you. so you’ve been on my podcast at least once, maybe twice, like the certainly flip nerd probably six or seven years ago, right? Yeah.

Mathew Owens, CPA (00:47.429)
years ago. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I enjoy it every time, man. I think we hit it off when we first met and, you know, we both add a lot of value to the communities and things like that. And I just enjoy what you guys do and the content you guys come out with and things like that. So excited to be on and add some value to everybody, man.

Mike Hambright (01:04.686)
Yeah, man, let’s do it. appreciate you being here. you’ve done so many things. I don’t know how you can say, tell us a little bit about your background without it being like an hour long show itself. So maybe just try to give us the Cliff Notes version of how you got into real estate in the first place.

Mathew Owens, CPA (01:14.225)
No, I don’t.

Mathew Owens, CPA (01:20.153)
No problem. The 32nd overview, the elevator pitch, right? So I’m a CPA. I quit my CPA from a job in 2006 to go into real estate full time. So I was a real estate genius for about a year and a half before I got my ass handed to me by the market crash, of course, and realized I was not a genius and didn’t know what the hell I was doing. Since then, you know, we hunkered down, pushed through, and it’s just pure grit at that point in 2008 when all that was falling all over you. And we…

Mike Hambright (01:22.807)
Yeah, yeah.

Mathew Owens, CPA (01:47.689)
We’ve now flipped a little bit over a thousand houses. We have over 35 million lint to flippers in different markets. I’ve raised a little bit over $150 million now for real estate and other businesses. And I invest in other business types as well as real estate and then try to diversify my cashflow streams into different projects where I am active as well as passive in different ways. And I raise a ton of capital and train other people on how to raise capital as well.

It’s lot more fun than doing accounting and audit for a CPA firm, man. You know, like the, I wanted to cry going to work every day at a CPA firm, but this is just horrible. Like doing taxes, right? So anyways.

Mike Hambright (02:17.518)
you

Mike Hambright (02:24.654)
Yeah. Yeah, I’ve got some, I was going to tell, go down some rabbit holes with taxes and accountants and stuff like that. I’ve got some stories, but maybe for another time. So let’s, let’s jump into the topic of the day, which is just talking about, you know, the difference between passive and active income. Now at a high level, obviously, you know, if people are just wholesaling deals and they’re not keeping assets, then they’re not building any long-term wealth. And it’s hard unless you’re independently wealthy to only be a passive investor or you have another high paying job or whatever.

to keep everything, right? Like a lot of investors, like, just want to keep them all. It’s like, well, you still have bills to pay, right? You still have maybe marketing costs or teammates or an office or whatever. So it’s kind of hard to do both, but let’s just define, like, how do you, you’re the CPA by the way, how do you define passive versus active?

Mathew Owens, CPA (03:12.433)
So I think, know, active investing, you’re really building your wealth, right? That might be the fix and flip stuff. You’re still trading your time for money, or you’re trading your time to build that wealth long-term, but you gotta have the need for that active income to be able to actually come in. So that’s why people revert to fixing and flipping versus fixing and holding a lot of times, because they want that cash coming in the door, not realizing that they’re probably gonna spend most of it on the operations of the business as well.

you know, doing that type of strategy, right? And it’s bad for taxes, of course, on that side. But it actually can really compound your wealth and you build a business system and you can, the goal is of course, to build that system to where that can be passive as well. But a lot of entrepreneurs never get to that point, right? They have a hard time with the delegation. I know I had a hard time for a long time doing that side and it takes a big learning and a lot of growth and self-development to get to that point, right? And most people are just.

Mike Hambright (03:58.03)
Yeah.

Mathew Owens, CPA (04:07.323)
go, go, go, push, let me just grind through. And you have that entrepreneurial, I’m just gonna work my ass off until it happens, mindset. And that really kind of puts you in a trap, right? At the same time, it’s building wealth, but it’s not necessarily the goal, right? It’s always a matter of keeping that goal in mind of saying, how do I create cashflow to create financial freedom in my life? That was the whole reason you became a real estate investor, most people did initially,

Mike Hambright (04:33.368)
Right.

Mathew Owens, CPA (04:35.119)
to create that cashflow. And so you gotta be able to invest passively as well or in more passive opportunities or find ways within your business to be more passive by putting the right people in the right seats or being able to over here on the actual passive side, you know, invest in these other strategies and learn the ways of doing the homework on other people and diversification and different asset classes to really grow your wealth without you doing the work. Because, you know, I look back at the thousand houses that I flipped and

It cost me $50 million if I look back, that’s what it cost me in growth by not fixing and holding and learning how those strategies to just raise capital and hold them all instead of selling them all because I thought I needed the capital, right? It was just a structure component difference that cost me 50 million. So it’s insane when you look at that, right?

Mike Hambright (05:12.515)
Right.

Mike Hambright (05:24.63)
Yeah, I’ve thought of that before too. We only kept about 10 % of our houses as rentals and now it’s like, that’s what’s generated all my wealth, at least on paper, a huge portion of it is a relatively small rental portfolio. It’s like, man, what if we had kept like hundreds more, you know? But that’s also the hindsight, right? Is to be able to look back and say, here’s what I should have done differently.

Mathew Owens, CPA (05:40.303)
And it’s just a matter of strategy.

Mathew Owens, CPA (05:45.401)
Right, right. And if you look back, you’re like, if I just built in a capital raise or mean, you know, acquisition fee and, and rehab management fee in and just held it long-term, how would I, you know, it’s pretty amazing. Even if it was a joint venture and I got half of that or something even better, you know? So, but yeah, it’s just interesting when you start to see, when you learn the new structures and strategies of how these deals work, which is what I love about the passive side too is, you know, I had my own,

Mike Hambright (05:54.892)
Right.

Mike Hambright (06:02.904)
Yeah.

Mathew Owens, CPA (06:14.885)
treadmill going over here on the single family side, on the lending side, and that’s a very, those are both very active businesses, even though people think lending isn’t, but it really is if you’re doing volume, right? Unless you have the right team in place to help, right? And then, but then on the passive side, I learned deal structuring. I learned how to do the right homework on operators. I learned all the strategies that they use to raise capital also. So I have unlimited capital for my projects.

Mike Hambright (06:25.325)
Right.

Mathew Owens, CPA (06:42.595)
Obviously you still work for the raise of the capital. You still have to develop relationships, but it’s a system and structure to be able to do that. And so the learning that goes into that passive side massively helps you on the active side and at the same time builds the wealth for you. So you can go spend the time with your kids. You know, I think you and I were just discussing this where, know, it hurts when you look back and your kids were young and you’re going, I wish I would have been able to be in the moment at that time more with them instead of in my head about business all the time.

And it hurts you, right? You’re like, no, let me just spend that time now. Let me just focus on building that relationship now. And you can do both. And that passive side is what gets you to that point where you can do that. So.

Mike Hambright (07:23.096)
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I want to ask you a question that you’re uniquely qualified to kind of answer. Obviously, you live in the People’s Republic of California. But I know a lot of people that live in high price markets like California, New York, Northeast or Northwest or the coast, really. A lot of times it’s hard to keep rentals there. So you have a ton of rental properties, but you probably have none in California. I know that most of your stuff is not at least, right?

Mathew Owens, CPA (07:31.461)
Haha, communism.

Mathew Owens, CPA (07:46.833)
I used to have a few in California short-term rentals until the city came in and said, even though this has been allowed for 40 years, we’re going to disallow it now because of Airbnb and the popularity and stuff. it’s funny, I actually made a argument with the city council telling them they could literally cut their deficit in half by allowing short-term rentals and they still emotionally couldn’t get over it in California. The logic there is not there.

Mike Hambright (07:55.808)
Okay. Yeah.

Mike Hambright (08:08.878)
They don’t get it. Yeah. But my question there is, you know, just because it’s a lot of times people don’t invest passively or certainly in rental properties. You and I have done a lot of rental property stuff because they’re like, well, rental properties don’t work where I’m at. Right. And so you crack the code on this. Maybe share a little bit about living in a high price market, but investing passively in other markets.

Mathew Owens, CPA (08:31.269)
Yeah, absolutely. When we first started in real estate, know, I was my stepbrothers that worked with me were engineers, you know, I’m a CPA. We’re like, let’s look at the data. Let’s look and see what’s showing out there. And we started analyzing all these markets across the U S to see which ones cash flowed better than other ones. California was one of the worst. You get like a half a percent if best rent to price ratio. And so that means that it cash flows less, right? The higher rent to price ratio you have, the better the cash flow. And so

And we also looked at other markets that were less volatile, right? California can be volatile and a lot of markets like Florida can be volatile. you know, going looking at where you are in the timing of the market and the volatility there, as well as the cash flow, you can get that long term growth in those markets without major volatility to handle. you know, we invest in Arkansas and Georgia and Tennessee and the Kansas City and things like that. And, you know, Missouri and different markets and.

all over the Midwest and the South and a lot of those markets, they just cash flow a lot better. Even with the high property taxes in some states and things like that, you take that into cash flow projection and things get priced accordingly. So it’s pretty interesting.

Mike Hambright (09:42.99)
So one of things I wanted to talk a little bit about is having the right team, because a lot of times, as real estate investors, you talk about this, it’s hard to give up control of stuff. And part of it is we just hustled so hard that we don’t think anybody can do it as good as we can. But we all.

only have 24 hours in a day. So you have to kind of build out a team or partner with people or work with service providers that help make it easier. I mean, that’s a lot of what you’ve done and what you kind of advocate people do is just find the right partners to help you, especially on the passive side, whether it’s turnkey, single family, multifamily syndications, could be commercial properties. It’s like, you have to rely on other people to be kind of your boots on the ground and your advocate, right?

Mathew Owens, CPA (10:21.285)
Absolutely, both active and passive side, need that, right? And so on the active side, you’re relying on your property managers, you’re relying on your contractors and their teams, and then you’re relying on your team internally to help also with that whole process and as well as outside team members. And you really, a lot of people forget they should be setting up an asset manager to manage those things so that they can be free because that asset management piece is a major one, right? And so, but when you come over here to the passive side, you are…

Mike Hambright (10:24.28)
Yeah, right.

Mathew Owens, CPA (10:50.895)
you know, all of a sudden you have the infrastructure and the team set up. It’s just a matter of verifying those team members know what they’re doing. So you typically have an operator in place that specializes in that asset class that is doing the asset management associated with it. And you can ask them tons of questions. Hey, what are all your KPIs and your asset management procedures and your due diligence process to go into that and then determine, do you agree with what the heck they’re telling you? Cause sometimes you shouldn’t agree, you know, they’re wrong, right?

And then you want to look at their team as well. Who are their property managers and their contractors and who is on that property manager’s team? How long have they been in existence? Because they’re only going to be good as that team. Just like you are on the active operations side, you’re only going to be as good as your team. And what’s awesome is that it sets you up for success by being an active operator and then taking it over to the passive side because you know what makes a good property manager or a bad property manager a good or bad contractor and

what contracts should be in place and how to not get screwed even though we all get screwed by contractors sometimes, you know, so, but you know, these are the things or bad property managers. I know we went through five before we setting up every market. I swear it’s like five is in a market to find, you know, at least one good one, right? Before you start off and you can get referral after referral. That doesn’t mean they’re gonna be good, you know, so, but these are the things that you should really be looking at in depth to when you’re looking at

Mike Hambright (12:09.976)
No doubt.

Mathew Owens, CPA (12:15.461)
due diligence to be passive is take your experience here and all the things that you know you’re probably doing wrong on the operations side and say, hey, do they have that dialed in over here? Because not only can you now invest with them if you see the right operations happening, but you can start taking ideas off of their operations to implement in your active business over here because some of these guys that are buying giant multifamily projects and.

You big deals out here. They’re they’re raising five ten twenty thirty million dollars. They got their their stuff dialed in right? They’re going to registered investment advisors. They’re going to broker dealers They go into banks those those guys make though make those operators be buttoned up completely with all their stuff in a row and so you see the way it really should be enacted in your own business and I remember looking back going my god, I have all these flaws I need to go fix all this stuff because these guys really have it dialed in, know, so

Mike Hambright (13:09.72)
Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah. I want to talk about a couple of things. Like one of things that I did in hindsight when I was I’ve moved into multifamily syndications and other commercial stuff over the last five or six years. But when I was on the single family side, I really allowed the way I thought about it is I really wanted rentals when I got in the business because I wanted mailbox money. Now we all know they’re not as passive as what anybody would tell you they are. But the way that I ran my business is I said I want to keep them all as rentals. And then I didn’t do what I thought I wanted to do. But

And I said, if it’s because it because you have a tight buy box, right? This is the type of house that cash flows makes sense. Is gonna.

retain like renders the longest, it’s like a three, two, two and not like a one, one or whatever, right? And so, but I tried to become agnostic to like, how can I make money from this deal? I’m trying to be in the opportunity business. And so I know there’s people out there, know, lot of people that just would identify with, I’m only a rehabber, I’m only a wholesaler. But the reality is, is you shouldn’t wholesale every deal. And you definitely shouldn’t rehab every deal. You shouldn’t rehab, you know, most markets you shouldn’t rehab.

high-end stuff unless that’s your specialty and you shouldn’t be rehabbing in the hood either. And so just by being in the business, I’m spending money on marketing to find opportunities and then I’m gonna slot it into what I’m gonna, an extra strategy, right? Yeah.

Mathew Owens, CPA (14:28.475)
Categories right right and I think I think that exit strategy idea is really really important a lot of brand new investors Don’t think about the alternative exit strategies or backup exit strategies if their initial one doesn’t work, right? And they don’t necessarily have the tools to do that or the understanding of how some of these other exit strategies work So learning about them is key. Yeah fix and flip is great if it takes off right if if the rehab is on budget and your timing is on budget and the markets on time, know and all that stuff, but

Mike Hambright (14:40.492)
Right. Yep.

Mathew Owens, CPA (14:56.785)
You know, a lot of times that doesn’t work out. what’s your exit strategy for having to rent that property? What is it cash flowing at, at your cost? So you know what you have to raise from an investor to be able to be happy with that return if you didn’t want to keep your capital in that deal, right? One other strategy is what about selling with seller financing and doing those types of deals or getting long-term financing and doing a wraparound mortgage to an end buyer?

some of these things, this is what I had to learn in 2008 when everything was crashing around me because I couldn’t sell houses and I’m like, okay, great. Call it the OCG be the bank program and we’ll sell properties to people’s IRAs and provide them, you know, the financing for it on a 15 year amortized term. And then we sold off the notes on the other side. That’s how I got into lending in the first place is learning, taking a weekend course on seller financing. And you know, was like, Oh my God, this is insane. And you know, once you start to understand interest rate arbitrage,

That’s when you’re like, you know, the CPA geek side of me comes out and I’m like, that’s amazing, you know? So I did a deal inside my 401k one time that was a $500,000 loan that was at 65 % of the loan to value at a 14 % flat rate, no points or anything. And then my 401k sold off 450,000 of that loan at an 8 % rate. And so on my 50 grand left in the deal, I was making the 14 % on the whole thing. That was a 68 % return on my money.

Mike Hambright (15:54.893)
Yeah, yeah.

Mathew Owens, CPA (16:19.003)
So when you start to see these arbitrage, you start to see the math on wraparound mortgages and seller financing, you’re like, and the tax benefits of being able to do an installment sale and your gains and that kind of stuff. It’s everything I love not paying the IRS money living in California, know, in the California franchise tax board, you know? So.

Mike Hambright (16:37.982)
Yeah, as a CPA, I don’t know if I you, my wife, both my wife and I were finance folks in the corporate world before we got in. She actually was an investment banker on Wall Street, relatively savvy financially, not CPAs though. But my point in saying that is, you guys are not, if you just heard what Matthew said and it…

Mathew Owens, CPA (16:47.483)
Nice.

Mike Hambright (16:59.116)
went right over your head, which is a lot of people and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s like you gotta surround yourself with people that know how to not only help you do more deals, but save more of the money that you make. You gotta surround yourself with people that are thinking more strategically because you’re not working this hard to just do transactional deals and never build wealth, but if you’re not surrounding yourself with people that are smart, I promise you you’re gonna regret it.

Mathew Owens, CPA (17:26.545)
I think that’s 100 % sure. I join masterminds all the time and I know you have a mastermind with Investor Fuel and they’re some of the most powerful things ever because at the end of the day, you are hanging around other people that are building wealth. Some of them are way wealthier than you are and they talk about different things than some of your friends at home or people that are in your relationship base and talk about ways of making money and strategies that can help you and just one or two things can.

Mike Hambright (17:48.216)
for

Mathew Owens, CPA (17:53.977)
literally change the trajectory of your life and your company by having one opportunity. I’m to the point now with the relationships we have where there’s so many opportunities that I have to pick and choose and be careful and say no so many times. And there’s a lot of people that are out there that are thinking, I don’t know where the opportunity is. How do I find these opportunities? And it’s being around other people that have these ideas and finding ways of making money and networking. So in the beginning, was, my real estate career, I was going to

five networking events a week, every single week for like two to three years, developing relationships. And the amount of strategies that I learned on how other people make money was like mind blowing. Even to my CPA job, was like, we had multiple business types and I didn’t really understand what the heck they were doing half the time. You know, it was just cookie cutter stuff and boring type stuff until I became an entrepreneur. And then my learning curve went through the roof because you start seeing all these ways of making money out there when you’re around the right people. So.

Mike Hambright (18:51.63)
Yep. Yeah, for sure. Let’s talk about asset classes. you know, we’ve talked, I guess we’ve talked really a lot about single family stuff, but one of the things that I realized is after getting about 50 rental properties, you know,

Mathew Owens, CPA (18:51.665)
Yeah, it’s exciting stuff.

Mike Hambright (19:06.062)
While I was adding rental properties, I was like, man, these things suck, these suck, these suck. Why are we foregoing income on these? We could have made 20 or $30,000 by doing something else with it, but we’re just foregoing that income. And then it started to hit. It’s like, oh, okay, okay. Some of the tax benefits started to kick in. All these things started to kick in.

And then my realization was, okay, well I wanted to 10x this and buy them one at a time, that’s a grind. And you’ve done that, so you know. So that’s when we kind of made the decision to like, hey, we’re gonna have active income from fix and flipping a wholesaling, and we’re gonna start plowing our passive stuff into multifamily and things like that. So you’ve got a lot of experience with all these things. What kind of advice do you give people on choosing an asset class that works for them?

Mathew Owens, CPA (19:51.163)
So I think it’s a matter of their long-term strategy. First and foremost, whenever you’re looking at your long-term strategy, you’re understanding what your personal budget is and what your monthly expenses really are versus what you think they are. They’re always different than what you think they are. So having that outline where you’re organized on that and understanding what your goal is from a passive standpoint is really, really important to have that in your mind at all times and to be tracking that. Secondarily,

when I’m investing, I’m looking at two primary strategies that I focus on as well as I’ll say insurance policies. I’m going out and I’m investing in property, whether that’s fix and flipping or that’s a long-term hold where I’m getting tax benefits and front-loading depreciation into year one to get every single year to get new tax benefits every year to offset my other passive income. So I’m doing those strategies. I’m getting long-term wealth building.

getting some cash flow, but usually the cash flow is a little slower, right? On the single family side as well as the multi-family side where there’s a value add period and then most of your returns come in cash flow later on as well as in profits because you just built all this equity, right? And that’s a great strategy, but I also counter that with a promissory note in debt strategy investment where that gives me consistent cash flow coming in every month immediately and I know what I’m getting on a consistent basis and I…

these notes into one big pool so that if one or two go into default or something happens with those, it barely affects the overall profits. And I go through and I raise capital from investors and I pay them one rate and I lend it at another rate and make an interest rate spread on those funds. And we got $35 million lent out that way doing these types of strategies like that, right? We also go through and invest my own money into Promissory Notes too, where I personally do this for my own portfolio and there’s different benefits for each thing.

I have insurance policy money is what I call it for that I put into gold and silver commodities, a little bit of crypto and other outside businesses too that I invest in that actually kind of are outside of real estate that if something was to happen, they’re creating income streams in different ways so I can diversify. Within real estate, multifamily, mobile home parks, self storage, short-term rentals.

Mathew Owens, CPA (22:06.875)
These are all great strategies that you can utilize with good operators out there that know what they’re doing. And you know, we have a short-term rental fund, we have a debt fund, have, you know, accounts receivable financing funds. We’re doing a lot of these different pieces, but I’m able to have the right asset management team in place to be able to manage those things for me so that I can take that step back, you know, quite a bit, which is awesome.

Mike Hambright (22:29.159)
That’s awesome and a lot of those things you you had to get around people that were doing those things to kind of learn about them,

Mathew Owens, CPA (22:34.831)
Yeah, absolutely. And you don’t know the right way to structure a deal, right? Like if I’m going through and structuring any big project right now, and I want to entice other people to raise capital for me, then I’m going to structure it to where, you know, there’s one class of shares for anybody underneath a million dollars and anybody above a million dollars is going to get a different class of shares that comes with a better preferred return, maybe an acquisition fee discount, a better split on the back end so that those capital raise partners have an incentive.

to be able to raise capital for you and they can make a profit in their shares above their investors by paying their investors the same level or a little bit better even return sometimes than your direct funds. So having the right structure and learning that from the passive side has been a game changer, especially for my financial modeling. I got two 47 inch wide monitors behind me for financial modeling. That’s my love language right there.

Mike Hambright (23:29.518)
There you go, there you go. let’s talk, whenever I get around smart people, I ask like, what do you think is gonna happen with the economy here? I mean, it’s an interesting time in America, it’s an interesting time in the world, and nobody has a crystal ball, but what do you see happening over, you know, the next year or two even?

Mathew Owens, CPA (23:46.033)
So I think it’s a hard thing to know, right? Because we just had a president change and things like that, different policy changes that are occurring. There could be multiple black squat events out there from what I see. You we just saw like in 2008, that was primarily a banking crisis, a lot of bad loans, of course, that caused that as well, Lehman Brothers moment and stuff. And there was a big liquidity issue. Just recently, we’ve had banks fail in the last few years, right? Where that is still a potential problem.

because there’s a lot of broken things in the market across the board right now, right? The deficit is one thing. We also have, you know, $60 trillion worth of liabilities coming up with, you know, social security and, you know, Medicare and all this stuff and big problems that are looming as an economy as a whole. You know, we have a president that’s coming in and trying to push for interest rates to go down, which might help real estate or at least make things a little bit more affordable.

But right now prices are still rising in real estate. We’re still seeing slow upticks in that valuation. Now, inflation could be higher than that and you could be losing purchasing power. At the same time, if you have debt, then you’re decimating that debt and inflation and from your wealth building effects, it’s actually helping you. It usually leveraged above 50 % for your wealth there or for your real estate. and real estate could be affected by jobs, right? A lot of…

government employees are getting let go right now and stuff like that that might affect the job market that also could help interest rates if jobs start to get reduced. But I see a lot of concerning things in the commercial market too right now with regard to a massive amount of debt that’s gonna need to be refinanced in the next few years. So if rates don’t come down, there could be a lot of distress that occurs. A lot of these big banks are gonna go and negotiate and come through and come to a conclusion because they don’t want bad debt on their books.

with these borrowers, but you these are all the things that I see out there as potential risks, but I still think there’s gonna be massive inflation. I don’t think the government’s gonna stop printing money. I think you need to invest in inflation hedges and have your promissory note money so that you can cover your monthly expenses while your inflation hedges over here are retaining your wealth on the real estate side. So that’s my take of the overall market right now.

Mike Hambright (25:59.298)
Yeah, that’s high level stuff. I would say, you know, the reality is there’s always tons of opportunity. Whenever there’s kind of struggles, there’s tons of opportunity there as well, right?

Mathew Owens, CPA (26:09.637)
Yeah, when you’re thinking about changes in the market, it actually, you know, as long as you’re cash liquid and you’re okay from a cash standpoint, you’re almost rooting for a correction so that you can go through and be like, let me, you make so much more money in that down market than you do an up market because there’s so much more to stress. mean, the properties that I was buying in 2008, my God, it was insanely awesome cashflow and discounts and seller financing and everything else you could possibly get. You know, it was a great time to buy, you know, so.

Mike Hambright (26:39.534)
Well, Matthew, hey, thanks for joining us today.

Mathew Owens, CPA (26:41.349)
Thanks man, I really appreciate the time.

Mike Hambright (26:43.086)
Good to see you, buddy, always.

Mathew Owens, CPA (26:45.787)
Talk to you soon,

Mike Hambright (26:46.894)
Hey everybody, thanks for joining us today. I hope you got some great information out of this. think at the end of the day, the reality is, is if you’re just getting started, a lot of you that are listening to this are not just getting started, but if you’re just getting started, don’t let, don’t overcomplicate things. But as you’re kind of growing, you need to surround yourself with people that are doing lots of other strategies and finding ways to not only help you build long-term wealth through passive investing, but through active income as well. So hope you got some good value there. We’ll see you in the next show.