How to Build a Winning Company Culture | Mark Stubler, Joe Homebuyer

Mike Hambright (00:33)

Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. Excited to have my buddy Mark Stubler here today from Joe Homebuyer. We’re to be talking about how to build a world-class culture. I think a lot of us as entrepreneurs, we get started and we don’t really think a lot about culture because we’re just hustling, we’re in the weeds, working it out, at least when a lot of us get started. And then over time, you realize the importance of surrounding yourself with people that have the same values as you, that are serving your customers well. And that culture piece is really important. But a lot of times it becomes it’s an afterthought early on, and you kind of fall into it one way or another. And and and Mark is is a big believer in building a world class culture around you. We’re gonna talk about that today. So Mark, welcome to the show, buddy.

Mark Stubler (01:11)

Mike, thanks brother. No, this is awesome. And it was fun to catch up with you a little before recording and things you’re working on and the value you’re providing to everybody in Investor Fuel. I’m just grateful to be with you.

Mike Hambright (01:20)

Yeah, absolutely. You know, it’s interesting when you go through a market like this. I think in my experience, I would say that there are we just had our quarterly Investor Fuel mastermind just literally last week from the time I’m recording this. And so a lot of people came together. I feel like a lot of people in our group are doing, you know, better than than they were a quarter ago or two quarters ago. People are just like this is the new normal. I’m not saying that the economy is necessarily getting better, but they’re just like, Well, this is the hand I was dealt, so I’m gonna

play, right? And I think what it forces everybody to do though is I think a lot of people that are doing well ha would say that they’re in a hard work season. Like they’re just working harder right now to either maintain or maybe do better. Right. And and I think part of what happens during that time is especially for guys like me and and guys like you that have a franchise system and anybody that has a product or service, it forces you to like, well, how do I level up? How do I make this better? How do I make it so my offer is irresistible, right? And so

It basically I think in down markets, it causes a lot of innovation because you’re just like, We have to get better, like

Mark Stubler (02:19)

Ha ha ha.

Mike Hambright (02:20)

we have to navigate these troubled times, and that’s gonna come through getting better one way or another. So thanks for the kind words, but that’s what it’s been is like, okay, how do we level up? How do we level up? How do we level up? I’m sure you’re seeing some of the same things and doing some of the same things that you’re in.

Mark Stubler (02:33)

It is. It’s actually the parallels are are spot on. and I like how you say that and I think it’s authentic to who you are. I mean your gift is visionary coming up with innovative ideas anyway, but you’re right. When you’re

challenged and when those around you are very much in the grind and realizing, hey, it’s not as fun as it once was. It’s hard to get the results we once got. and then do you be in a position where it’s like, okay, well, if I innovate, if I come up with something, it could have a positive impact for the whole. I that’s where it gets fun is when you when your back is up against the wall, when you’re when you have the challenges

when you come up with something that can impact many. And we’ve observed that among our franchisees as well when we our franchise partners, when we institute something that can instantly provide clarity or lift or remove friction in their life or business, the dividends are are quite rewarding. But they’re not easy. It’s

Mike Hambright (03:21)

Yeah.

Mark Stubler (03:21)

not easy right now.

Mike Hambright (03:22)

No, nothing nothing nothing is. Nothing worthwhile is easy ever, right? So hey,

Mark Stubler (03:26)

That’s right.

Mike Hambright (03:27)

I know you really believe in the culture stuff and it’s really powerful and and I do too. As I would say it hasn’t always been top of mind, but as I build my business now and as we move forward, I’m like, if it’s not, you know, not that everything is fun, but if it doesn’t have the potential to be fun, it if I’m not around people that I enjoy being around, then I don’t want to do it. And so I would say there were times in my

business career where I saw some people on my team as a necessary evil, like I just I don’t want to do it. I need to find somebody to do it. And it was never quite like that. But I would say at this point, if you’re not a fit for my team, like if you don’t have the same values that we have, then there’s just no place for you here. And I believe that more than ever. But before we dive into that, because I know you’re you’re going to share a lot of great insights, tell us a little about you and your background for those that don’t know you.

Mark Stubler (04:08)

Yeah, I appreciate it, Mike. So we’re having a fun time. I started in real estate doing wholesaling here in Utah about eleven years ago. And we started capture pretty healthy market share pretty quick. And a lot of it was not because I was a great business owner, but I was a hustler and just put my head down. I’m you know, extremely willing to get in the trenches. But it my fence and deck sales translated wildly well to what

the acquisitions requires building a solution for a seller. So anyway, right out the gate, had a lot of success. So much so that we’re like, okay, what’s the next thing? We’re capturing market share, we’re having a good time. How would could we expand this thing? So about four years into business in Utah and having some success in some other markets, we actually went the franchise route. And that’s where Joe Homebuyer was born is we started a true franchise model where we’re responsible for the playbook, the framework, the support

To actually help our franchise partners grow and scale their business. And so now the franchise is about six years old and we’re in the trenches with our partners across the country helping them scale and grow their operations. So it’s been fun over the last few years. to all the things that are required as a CEO to try to provide value to more than just my own operation, but still in the trenches ourselves. like I said, 11 years strong here in Utah, still figuring out how to wholesale.

and navigate the changes in the market, all the challenges, all while being a married twenty three years and a father of four and and those that being, you know, the priority of how can I spend time, create memories, not lose time at home while trying to conquer this world of business at the same time.

Mike Hambright (05:38)

Yeah, that’s great. That’s great. And and as you know, we have some parallels as I was on the franchising side very early on in my real estate investing career too. And so it’s great. I honestly I you know I’m not in the franchising side anymore, but I’m obviously in the serving real estate investor side with Investor Fuel. And so I know that it’s near and dear to my heart to kind of help and serve other people and I know it is for you too. So I appreciate you being here and I always appreciate our conversations and so thanks. Thanks again for being here, buddy. So let’s talk about just

You

know, how do you define culture in your business? it’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, what does that mean to you?

Mark Stubler (06:07)

Sometimes it’s easier to say what it’s not. And what I mean by that is I think sometimes we think, well, I provide lunch for my team. And I have a room in my office where people can have the zero gravity machine and relax and have you know get reset by giving them twenty five minutes to you know restore their energy or whatever. I think there’s perks. I think there’s some, you know, activities you can do, fun things. Culture though is what you tolerate.

It’s what is happening what environment you’re fostering. and I think of core values as the easiest way to describe it. for us, it’s the four H’s. and we’ve done it so that it’s easy to remember. But culture starts with what is our identity, what are our values that we operate by? and are we holding those that are we attracting and repelling people based off those values? For us, it’s the four H’s. So it’s

Honest, but I’m gonna come back to honest in a minute because it’s not maybe what you think at surface level honest. Heart for others, humble, and I heart for others. Which one did I forget? Humble, heart for honest, honest, and hunger. if I didn’t say hunger, I said it twice, but now you guys got them three or four times. But the four H’s represent they all tie into each other. Heart for others. You can’t be hunger ambitious.

And so much so that you don’t have a heart for others. See how they tie into each other, meaning if my ambition is to just you know win at all cost, and that’s the level of hunger I have, because we like to be ambitious. We want to win. we’re for profit, but we don’t have a heart for others. they don’t reconcile. Honest is obviously already included in my mind and heart for others, but honest is honest with ourselves. What are we contributing? What are we focused on?

And I love that. the honest is honest with ourselves. How are we showing up? Anyway, as you identify your core values in your business, and humble is the one is this idea of am I teachable? Am I a continuous student? So for us, it’s the four H’s. I identify my culture, my value system. It radiates from everything I do. I want to attract and repel people based off my four H’s, even if occasionally I forget one of them or I’ve lose track of the four. But

they exude from everything that we do. It’s more than when you go to the dentist office and there’s a frame on the wall that says,

Mike Hambright (08:14)

Yeah, yeah.

Mark Stubler (08:15)

These are my core values, but you know you’re like, does anybody know what those are internally? But I bet you if I you asked our franchisees, if you asked our internal team what our core values are, I bet you’d get ninety percent across the entire system. People would know what our four H’s are, even if the CEO has a blunder occasionally on on what I I mentioned there. That’s

Mike Hambright (08:32)

Yeah, yeah.

Mark Stubler (08:33)

how big of a part, that’s how big of a part the our core values are.

So that’s where it starts. That was a long winded answer to say that’s where the where culture starts.

Mike Hambright (08:40)

Yep. No, that’s great. I think you know, again, as people that have a small team, you start to build your team, you realize that if you’ve ever led a fox in the hen house or somebody that doesn’t live up to your core values or you see some action that’s like that has no part here, then you realize the importance of, you know, it’s so much easier to find the right people and bring them on in the first place versus find out who’s not a fit once you’ve already hired them,

Mark Stubler (09:01)

That’s right.

Mike Hambright (09:02)

obviously. But that’s great.

I don’t think anybody would disagree with the things you said. Like that sometimes I think that’s one of the challenges when people start to define core values and stuff. It’s like when I hear yours, I’m like, yeah, those could all be mine too, right? It’s and there’s so many words that have meaning behind them that could define somebody’s core values. How do you how do you individualize those? I don’t think anybody would disagree with your core values and sometimes people have other ones, obviously, right? But they all kind of come back to

Caring for other people, being honest, hard working, a lot of them are centered around those things. How would you kind of advise people that might be listening to this that I would say there’s a lot of people that, you know, don’t have defined core values, but it doesn’t mean they don’t have core values. They just haven’t defined like, well, what are the four, five, or six that like we want to live by? How would you kind of advise people to find what their core values, if they want to define it for the team? How what does that process look like?

Mark Stubler (09:53)

I think there’s actually a really

cool process and I think you’ll find energy as you do it. Those that invest and actually, Mike, I’m glad you asked the question because I think this is a gift to anybody that’s willing to invest the time. If you sit down and you the again, do this in in order here, but list three people that have had a significant influence over you, over your life. And when I say influence, they inspired you to be a better version of yourself. So all of us know somebody. And and some would say, Well, you know, my parents were lousy or whatever, but you know somebody you worked with, a neighbor, a

grandparent or hopefully you know family members, whatever. But somebody that has inspired you to be a better version of yourself. Make a list of those three people. So action one is to make a list of them. Then I would challenge anybody that’s going through this exercise to identify your core values. that’s the exercise. You’re identifying your core values. I think you can do it now by labeling the characteristics of these three people that inspired you. So if you mentioned grandma, well she seemed to be

always present. she was always just mindful of everybody else and a service mindset. and then you mentioned your brother, had ambition, hard working, and was always there the first one to help. Whatever. And as you go through it, you’ll actually oftentimes identify things that inspired you in each of them. And oftentimes there’s some common threads. Like, servant mindset was it was a common theme between the three of them. Or ambition or honest. And

Oftentimes, in my observation, when you work through this, you actually highlight characteristics in others that either you already embody or that are important to you that you’re aspiring to have. That those are also important to you. You can actually interview people this way as well. When they’re sitting down with you, you can say, All right, who do you who name three people? I don’t want to know. And by the way, the only requirement, Mike: people try to cheat and they and they bring up incredible individuals. They say, Well, Jesus.

And it’s like, yes, but we want somebody that specifically you know on a personal level because that’s

Mike Hambright (11:42)

Yeah.

Mark Stubler (11:43)

that’s too easy. He has lots of great characteristics. Well, he has all the great characteristics, but the only other requirement, it can’t be LeBron James, it can’t be a famous person somebody you have to know and has actually inspired you to be your best. So again, it works on a personal level to identify maybe some pathways to what core values are important to you because you identified in others.

And I would say that you could also use it in an interview because then they come back and they say, Well, grandma, my brother and my co or my coworker or my previous boss, whatever. And then you can say, okay, now with your previous boss, what was it that inspired you? or what was it that you like about that individual? What were those characteristics? And they’re either gonna come back with characteristics that are aligned with your organization or they’re not. They may came come back with something like, I’ve had somebody come back with all the things being hunger and ambitious.

But it was very much egocentric. It wasn’t like I’m humble, I’m teachable. It’s get out of my way, I’m gonna pave, you know, run through walls. Which there’s a healthy balance of running through walls, but it has to be counterbalanced

Mike Hambright (12:37)

Right.

Mark Stubler (12:37)

by what is what other characteristics. And so that’s actually helped me realize, that’s not who we’re looking for. So I would encourage somebody, that exercise is surprisingly effective at identifying what you probably already have and what it you’re attracted to.

Mike Hambright (12:50)

Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. That’s great. I’m gonna say something obvious here, but I want to kind of pick your brain on a little bit, get your thoughts is that it all starts with kind of the leader, right? Like I what I would say that there’s been two times in my business where I’ve sat down with my team and we’ve kind of defined our core values. The first time it was like I would say in hindsight, it looked like we were just trying to check the box of like, well, let’s just get something we can put on our wall, you know. And I’m not again, I’m not saying that we didn’t

live by those things or value those things, but it was more of a like, I would just we need to do this, right? And then the next time we spent a lot of time on it, like going literally like looking up the meaning of words, talking about what it means to each person. And and I really tried and I would say the first time I also probably had a heavier hand in like what they were going to be as the owner of the company. The second time I really used my team to kind of bubble this stuff up because I wanted their buy in. but of course it’s my company so I still got to decide like what

What and I could, you know, lean in certain directions. And it turns out that there’s a lot of words that we think mean the same thing, but when you start to drill into them, they’re a little bit different,

Mark Stubler (13:47)

Absolutely.

Mike Hambright (13:47)

and maybe it’s different in how you think about it or whatever. But just kind of back to this idea that it all starts with the leader, right? And as the company owner, when you define these things, and you might want to utilize your team for it, but you don’t want your team to

determine the culture of your company. Otherwise you’re going to end up leading people that you might have disagreements with and things, right? So just talk about the importance of kind of being leader driven in defining what your culture should look like. Or maybe that play,

Mark Stubler (14:13)

Yeah, I love.

Mike Hambright (14:14)

by the way, between you as a leader and team involvement to get their buy-in.

Mark Stubler (14:18)

Yeah, great point. Mike, I have to tell you, I can tell you that I relate very much to your example where there’s been a time that we included the entire team and there’s been reflection individually on what are the core values that we’re gonna operate by. I think there’s maybe a season for both. although if if I answer your question about being a leader, you could argue that it’s most important to identify get very clear as a leader how you’re gonna lead yourself.

What your organization is gonna look like, the core values that you embrace and that you want embodied in your organization, and then getting the buy-in from your leadership team. And if it’s you’re totally passionate about those core values, then you’re either going to and you you’d be okay with attracting and repelling individuals if they’re not in alignment. But you’re right, it’s making sure that they understand at the fullest what the core values represent. Because for me.

I mentioned one of the four H’s for us is honest. And actually I th I I did a search one time. I think integrity and honest is one of the most common core values among, you know, leading companies, larger companies throughout the country. But I think that if you dissect it, honest can mean various levels. For us, it’s obvious you’re gonna be honest with sellers, you’re gonna be honest with title companies, you’re gonna be honest in your dealings. But again, and I and I’m being a little redundant here, but

Honest to us goes beyond that. It’s honest with ourselves, our contribution, what we’re bringing to the company, who we’re becoming. It’s not just we’re gonna default that heart for others includes I’m never gonna deceive somebody because I have a heart for others. And we’re gonna say that honesty is is the greater level internally in evaluation of what we’re doing there. So I love that your observation that that they each word it’s beyond the word. It’s the definition and the full adoption of

From your organization. And I do believe it it comes from the leader. It has to come from you because then you’re passionate. You can recognize when somebody’s not a culture fit and you can either challenge them and they can either rise up, but in most cases, if they’re not a culture fit, it’s just not gonna work. And that’s where you have to draw a hard line. If they’re not a culture fit, they can’t be part of your organization because the minute you have someone in your organization that’s not a culture fit, but they continue to be there.

And in our case, if a franchisee is not a culture fit, then it it becomes the new culture. Because now you’re tolerating it. It’s, but that that one of those four H’s, the one that you mentioned, humble? Well, not everybody in the tribe is teachable and humble and is seeking for continuous growth. So maybe that isn’t actually a core value. You undermine the core value if anybody in the organization does not embody or is embracing or striving for that to to be you know adopt that core value.

Mike Hambright (16:46)

Yeah. so how do you try to vet that out in an interview process? if they’re aligned with your core values? And then two, what happens if you let somebody slip through the cracks and you find out that they don’t live by your core values? Like, what do you do?

Mark Stubler (16:59)

Well, that happens, right? because an interview we all know that you put on your best skirt, your best face and everything for an interview, and so you’re you’re gonna have people. I don’t know why I use that saying. I personally would not wear a skirt. You do. you show up in your

Mike Hambright (17:06)

You you wear a skirt? You wear a skirt in your interview? I had to call it out. I was like, I don’t put I I haven’t put on my best skirt, but anyway, maybe.

Mark Stubler (17:21)

finest makeup, whatever it is, you show up in your finest version of yourself.

and at the end of the day, yeah, I think what happens is you run you you make a mistake and you end up with somebody that probably isn’t hearing so the craziest thing that we’ve had to do is we’ve actually removed people from our system that were not embodying you know our our core values. And sometimes that’s foregoing revenue. That was a partner that was producing revenue, but we didn’t have confidence that they were Joe ambassadors. And so you have to make those hard decisions.

You know, business is a series of decisions. CEOs have a series of this decisions to make. And sometimes it’s compromising or forgoing revenue today or immediate solution today. The hardest one is when y you know you’re you’re turning down revenue because it you know big picture, if I make this investment, I believe it will take a stance on or support long term.

my core values. Or it’s more common if you’re just hiring somebody and they’re an acquisition manager. They’re getting results, but you’re not every once in a while their their story’s not adding up. They’re not overly honest with you. That’s a tough decision to say, I’m letting this acquisition manager go because I don’t have full confidence in them. And I’ve given them a chance and it’s been identified that they’re not honest. So that’s the type of thing that because it’s gonna happen. You’re gonna find that there’s people are at at odds

Or become at odds with your core values and it is a very tough decision. but it becomes one that when you make, Mike, you have more confidence. And when you have more confidence, the next decision becomes easier.

Mike Hambright (18:49)

And I think what it does too is it it forces you to do what everybody knows they need to do, which is hire slow and fire fast. It

Mark Stubler (18:55)

Yes.

Mike Hambright (18:56)

doesn’t always happen that way, right? Because we’re a lot of us as small entrepreneurs, and I’m guilty of this historically for sure, is I say it’s like the going to the grocery store when you’re hungry. You end up putting some stuff in the cart that shouldn’t be in there, right? And so

Mark Stubler (19:07)

That’s right.

Mike Hambright (19:08)

when a lot of times as as smaller entrepreneurs, we tend to, hire somebody that

isn’t a perfect fit, but I just I need to get somebody in that seat, right? And then it forces

Mark Stubler (19:16)

That’s right.

Mike Hambright (19:17)

you. It doesn’t force you, but it it many times will that situation allowed you to overlook things that you shouldn’t have.

Mark Stubler (19:23)

That’s right. Yeah. you’ve been rationalized it. I’m guilty. We had a dispo guy, I’m getting very specific of my Utah operation. Incredible guy in terms of he would work hard, he was reliable. But when we did an honest assessment, there was a gap in and again I saw lots of incredible characteristics of this individual, but there was a gap. And

And we h held on to him for probably an extra year and a half, two years longer than we should have. And when we finally had the courage to say, Hold on, we’re not honoring our own what we’re preaching type thing. We’re we’re hanging on to somebody that is good in so many ways and the convenient thing is to keep him, but in reality he’s not fully aligned. He there was missing that fourth H of humble where he just wasn’t teachable and again, in so many ways he was providing value. Since then we’ve hired

the right predictive index, the person that has the right profile and is an incredible culture fit. And, although it was inconvenient, it was hard, there was some time that the coverage wasn’t there at the level it needed to, we’re much further ahead. But that’s the foresight you have to have as a leader.

Mike Hambright (20:23)

Yep. Yep. Let’s talk a little about the importance of as a leader and as somebody that is building a team, the importance of kind of personal development, whether it’s your own or continuing to develop people on your team so that they can improve over time, get better and better and stronger, stronger team members.

Mark Stubler (20:41)

I love that question. So I it’s been said, I think it was Jim Rohn, or maybe you’ll correct me, but the true measure of a leader is how many leaders you’re creating, right? and so I think I love that challenge. Am I creating leaders? are those around me becoming, at its simplest form, better versions of themselves? Are they able to take on more responsibility? Are they progressing in that way?

And if you think about it and take a step back, you can ask yourself: if I only have a team of three, if I have a team of fifty, in your case, Mike, you have influence over other business owners. are you fostering an environment as a leader that is inspiring them to become better leaders? and we have the example of the savior who is the epitome of leadership and of servant leadership and all the characteristics that he embodied.

He created leaders. now not everybody was a follower of Jesus, but we know that those that did rose up and they

Mike Hambright (21:33)

Mm, yeah.

Mark Stubler (21:34)

they became more. And so I love that challenge because it kind of allows you to almost have a self evaluation filter. how am I doing? Are the people around me actually am I unintentionally kind of keeping them at bay or are they actually becoming better? You know, there’s that idea that, well,

If I teach them everything I know and I raise them up and I get them additional support and bring them up to be CEO level individuals, they could just leave. And then the counterbalance to that is, yeah, but if you don’t and they stay, then you’ve got people that are underperforming and you’re you’re tolerating mediocrity because you’re afraid of what might happen if you grow these individuals. So I love that challenge of are the people around me becoming more or am I fostering an environment that challenges them to become more?

Mike Hambright (22:15)

Yeah. And it’s interesting when you think about as a small business, people could work at a lot of places. A lot of times as small businesses, we don’t have we we certainly don’t have all the benefits and resources of like somebody would go work for Amazon, right? So it depends on the position that you’re hiring for, but let’s just say an administrative position, like they could go work for a bank or Amazons of the world, some company that has lots of resources that’s gonna provide benefits that you just can’t as a small business.

And so the question is, well, what’s gonna separate you? Like why would they want to work for you? And I think it all comes back to culture, right? Like they have to believe that they’re part of something special because you’re probably not, as a small business, paying the most that you possibly can to that person and providing the best benefits that you can because quite frankly, large companies have a serious leg up on us as small businesses. And so it has to come back to culture and a mission.

That’s bigger than any of us on a small team, right?

Mark Stubler (23:10)

it’s so well said. And at the end of the day, you can compete with the big companies because there’s lots of people out there that when they feel of your leadership and where you’re going, people want to mean it’s just human nature. even if you’re a leader yourself, there’s other leaders that inspire you that you want to follow, you want to learn from. You’re attracted to spending time with. and we can, as we become more

We can attract, and that’s actually a prerequisite. If you’re not developing as an A leader, you’re not gonna attract a quality talent. But when you bring on a quality talent, the I mean you’ve seen it time and time again, Mike, over the years. When you bring on the right people, the impact it has on your business there’s nothing else like it. the multiplying effect is incredible, but you can only attract those people. Now you might attract them for a time.

But if you’re a dud of a leader or you stop casting a vision and creating a world in which you’re including the dream or the ambitions of those that you’re attracting and they’re outgrowing it, then they’re out the door because they want to know that the contribution that they’re making is contributing to the bigger vision as a whole, that it matters. And ironically, those that are A players, as we use that that phrase, they actually want accountability.

They want to know that what they’re contributing is important. They want to know that you as a leader, not just recognize, but you’re going to hold them to a high standard because they want to be challenged. They want to continue

Mike Hambright (24:28)

Yeah.

Mark Stubler (24:28)

to grow.

Mike Hambright (24:29)

That’s great. Good stuff. Mark, thanks for sharing your your knowledge with us today. And I think this is such an important topic, especially with where the market is right now, where the economy is. I think it’s easy for people to be in the bush kind of be so deep in the weeds that they’re just trying to get their business kind of either right sided or working harder than ever to maintain what they have or even grow a little bit. But sometimes we lose sight of those things that are kind of foundational, right? So you wanna make sure that you’re always building your business on a strong foundation and

I think culture is probably that’s a big part of that, right? So if folks want to connect with you and learn more about what you’ve got going on, where can they go?

Mark Stubler (25:01)

Yeah, thank you. It’s Mark Stubler on Instagram. And and then obviously we are continually growing with the right partners in the right markets, helping existing real estate investors build a stronger business, leveraging our playbook and systems, obviously our community of top performing franchisees all across the country. And they can find us at joehomebuyerfranchising.com.

Mike Hambright (25:21)

Awesome. We’ll we’ll add some notes down below for anybody that couldn’t get that. We’ll have in the show notes down there. So Mark, thanks again for spending some time with us today. Always good to see you, my friend.

Mark Stubler (25:29)

Hey Mike, it’s a pleasure. Thanks, brother.

Mike Hambright (25:31)

Yeah, I appreciate you. Guys, thanks for joining us today. I think you know, culture is the foundation for which as a at the end of the day, what happens with a lot of entrepreneurs is they build a business that they don’t love to be a part of every day, that you don’t wake up and you know, groan when you get out of bed or you’re excited to go be a part of something and and a big part of that is the culture that you create and who you surround yourself with. So hope you got some good value from today. We appreciate you guys. We’ll see you on the next show.