How Bad Permitting Can Cost You $150K | Architect Mark Nichols on Real Estate Due Diligence

Mark Nichols (00:00)
But the only problem with that is once you’ve submitted to them, the clients already paid a lot of your fee, consultant fees, and if where they can’t do the project the way they want, they may have paid anywhere from twenty, fifty, a hundred, hundred you know, more than a hundred and fifty thousand dollars already just in design fees, only to get a no from the jurisdiction. And then as the architect, you have to spin it, well, that’s just a normal cost of the process where

In reality, you probably could have done more to figure out what you couldn’t do up front.

Q Edmonds (02:03)
Hello everyone. Welcome to the Real Estate Pros Podcast. I am your host, Q Edmonds.

And I’m excited to be here today. Of course, you know what I’m gonna say, and I stand by it every time I say it. I have another fantastic guest. And I’m excited because we’re gonna peek through his lens. He is an architect, he provides custom designs for his clientele. And I’m so glad for us to peek through his lens. I’m glad I’m so glad he’s gonna take us kind of probably on a little journey, tell you about how we got started. But I’m so excited to introduce you all to Mr. Mark.

Nichols, Mr. Mark, how you doing today, sir?

Mark Nichols (02:41)
I’m doing well. Thanks for having me. Excited to talk about real estate and and approach it from an architect’s perspective. So thanks for having me.

Q Edmonds (02:49)
Yes, sir. And I’m so glad you’re here, man. you hear me say this again. I think time is our most precious commodity. So I thank you. I value your time. Thank you for being here. And Mr. Mark, listen, I’m the type, I like to dive right in. So I would love for you to tell the people what’s your main focus these days. If you don’t mind, give us a little bit of an origin story, kind of how you got into the space that you’re in, and then tell them what market you’re operating in. So, Mr. Mark, sir, you have the floor, my friend.

Mark Nichols (03:16)
Okay, yeah, my origin story, man. It will not compare to all the Marvel movies that are out there. There’s so many good origin stories. So a boring architect’s origin story. But it is a little, I guess, cliche like superhero movies, and that my parents saw me playing with blocks as a kid and I was really into it. And they always are kind of saying on you know, a little voice on the side of my shoulder, like, maybe you like architecture, maybe you’d like design or building. So

They’ve encouraged me throughout my life. first in childhood, then in high school, they said, Hey, you can take a drafting class for high school, try that out. So I tried it and, it was interesting enough, but at fifteen, sixteen, I think I was, you don’t know what you want to do for the rest of your life. So I said, Okay, cool, maybe there’s something there. And then they even kept bringing the idea up in college.

To the point where I took some studio design classes where it wasn’t like full architecture, but it was it, it was sort of art with a functional twist to it, I suppose. and I was really enjoying those classes. At the time, I was a politics major. I was thinking it’s a it’s a typical pre-law major. I go to law school after college, and I was writing politics papers and I was up till two, and I was like, man.

This is kind of grueling. Like I can do these papers, I get it, heart’s in it. I’m just trying to get it done. I’m not enjoying the process of it. And then later that finals week, I was working on my studio design finals and I was I loved it. I think I stayed up, I think I pulled all night around one because I was really into what I was doing, enjoyed it, didn’t even really notice the time go by. And I thought to myself, you know, I think there’s something there. Like I clearly enjoyed doing this. Let me see if there’s a way I can a practical way I can do this as a job.

And hopefully I can do something that I love. so I unfortunately for you know getting through college economically and in a short period of time, not the best revelation to have, because then I had to go to grad school for architecture. So I got my undergrad degree in politics, I guess somewhat relevant to architecture for later, and dealing with clients and jurisdictions, getting things approved and permitted, but not immediately relevant. So went to grad school.

you know that it started in the summer, that first summer course. I remember all of the classes I enjoyed, I was like, my I love this and that was it. And honestly it felt like time has gone by like that.

There’s been no doubt or hesitation that’s what I wanted to do and that’s what I’ve enjoyed doing. So I feel lucky that I kinda I’m appreciative that my parents kind of guided me in a particular direction. And I feel lucky that I found something that I liked early on. I know some people it takes a while to find whatever it is that they want to do as a profession and that they’re passionate about, but yeah, I kinda lucked out in that regard. So that’s my origin story. and

Yeah, because I love doing it, it’s helped me can continue to move up and get closer and closer to my dream of practicing architecture the way that I want.

Q Edmonds (07:06)
Yeah, yeah. Love it. Thank you, man. Thank you for telling us about the origin story, kind of taking us on a journey. And you know, I I believe one constant that we have, no matter what part of real estate we in, pretty much on part of what business we in, is that the business owner is at the center of the business, right? And so I often say, you know, destiny has no wasted moments. We learn from each leg of the journey when we got a pivot, when we felt we learn from our failures, from our success. And so without the this business.

journey, Mr. Mark? What has it revealed to you about yourself? has it revealed discipline? Has it made you humble? Has it increased the, you know, that visionary aspect of you, that innovation aspect of you? Like what has the journey revealed to you about you?

Mark Nichols (07:52)
yeah. I mean just out of necessity. I was okay about time management. I wouldn’t even say I was bad about time management before, but I had to become almost ruthless because I have to get a certain amount done each day and I have two young kids now. So like you said, time is a very precious commodity. So I’ve become very regimented on not wasting too much time when I do have time to work.

Also, when I’m designing, making design decisions quickly, there can be a tendency to spin your wheels for a while. So catching yourself when you’re doing that. So just being really cognizant of time and making the most of it. I would also say there’s humbling aspects to it to running your own business and to wanting to be client focused and making sure you deliver the best version of their home. you have to check your ego a little bit, and sometimes you think you’ve come up with

A great design that’s reflecting what they want, and the client may have a slightly different vision. And you gotta take a step back and adjust. And usually it’s not, there’s elements that the client can just be like, I don’t know if it’s quite that, but there is something there in their feedback. So finding, okay, what is it that they’re getting at? How can we make the highest quality version of that? and what feels like might maybe like a curveball or a tangential comic.

Climate client, how do we incorporate in the design into that that into the design and still make it excellent at the end of the day? So there’s humility that comes with that. You can’t just say, No, this is my design, we’re doing it my way. I mean, it I guess you can. Good luck. I think you’re gonna have a hard time growing your business with that ethos. So it’s more of an ethos of maybe you’re a world-famous architect, you can get away with that. But for all the all the more average Joe architects like myself,

That’s a hard attitude to take. So you have to take it with a grain of salt and realize that they, you know, it’s the client’s home, they’re gonna live there. And while an architecture standpoint, they may not have all the background and knowledge, they do know how they wanna live. There is value in whatever it is that they’re bringing up. It’s your job to find that and integrate it into the design.

Q Edmonds (10:06)
Absolutely. Thank you again for the answer, definitely. Time management is one of the most precious things that we can do with our business, within life. Absolutely. And so I you know that system, had to work on that, put that in place. I would also love to know what’s one maybe operational thing you’ve put into place, let’s say like the last two years, that has really helped you be successful.

Mark Nichols (10:32)
That’s a good question.

You know, just building on s so they call standards and templates within the software that I use. So not recreating the wheel each project. There’s a lot of embedded value and knowledge in each so the software I use is called Revit. So within each Revit project file and 3D model, there’s a lot that can be used and carried over to the next project. So that each project you create, you’re making it a little bit easier for the next one. so taking the time

Yeah, at first I felt so busy I was drinking from the fire hose, I didn’t have time to do that. But now every Friday I set aside time. I try to set aside an hour, I usually only do like thirty or forty minutes, but it’s enough. Just that little bit of managing and creating and adding to templates that when I start new projects I can be that much more efficient to get them to different project milestones. So

it’s been hard to force myself to do it, especially when you have a lot to do and it’s not necessarily billable hours, but it pays dividends in the end, it’s worth it.

Q Edmonds (11:35)
No, absolutely. Absolutely, my friend. What’s next for you, man? What is the next real goal? What are you looking to like solve or scale next?

Mark Nichols (11:46)
you know, I go back and forth on whether I want to grow my business to maybe a five-person business or whether I wanna stay lean where I I’m currently at. It’s technically it’s just myself. I have a former employee who started her own practice, but I still we have sort of a work share agreement so I can send tasks to her when need be if I need some extra production support. I also have a company in India that I outsource to. and then the third one I

Affiliated with a firm in Seattle, Washington called Baylis Architects. I’m associate with them. I’m helping them grow their Southern California market. We also have a workshare agreement. So they have an office of, I think they’re currently at around 15 people. So I can rely on them if I need a an extra hand or two. So I have a good I guess remote staff structure. So I don’t have a big push to want to hire because it certainly keeps things simple for myself.

But if you have a business, there is a desire to want to grow it. You think why not grow? so it’s just a constant back and forth of do I want to grow? Do I want to deal with the problems that come with that? Can I keep being lean as I currently am? I would say where I lean right now, or I think my preference is staying smaller and just trying to get more of the projects, the bigger fee.

Higher-end residential projects where the clients really want to create something one of a kind and they have a healthy budget to do so. I think I want to get there first in the smaller version of my company. Yeah. Once I get to that point and grow. But I mean, for me, what’s on the horizon is I have four Pacific Palisades fire rebuild projects, making sure I execute those as best as I can. There’s a lot of word-of-mouth marketing or you know, passing along of

of architect information from clients to other people in the Palisades. So that’s probably the like biggest bang for buck advertising marketing push I can do is make sure these four projects that I have deliver the highest quality and a very attentive level of service to the client. And then from there just you know growing the amount of rebuild projects that I’m doing ’cause I think that’ll be a major force construction.

architecture and engineering industry in LA for probably the next five years or so.

Q Edmonds (14:00)
Yeah, yeah, love it. Thank you, sir. Now you talked a little bit about your relationships. I asked everyone that comes on because I want to hear their philosophy or their thought with building help healthy relationships within business. So within your space.

What are some, what is your philosophy? What is your thought on building healthy business relationships? And also, I know you mentioned Kristine, but is there other people who have benefited from your relationship? You know, has helped you grow or you’ve helped them grow. Like so tell us to me a little bit about relationships, Mark.

Mark Nichols (15:13)
Yeah, I mean architecture is a team sport. You there’s the client you’re dealing with, then there’s various consultants. There’s usually a structural engineer, a civil engineer, a Title Twenty-Four energy model consultant. There could be a landscape architect, interior designer, and then there’s the general contractor. So there’s it’s not just the architect alone doing it. you’re working with a lot of other people. And then within an architecture practice, there might be other architects.

junior architects. and then on top of all that, you have to get it permitted. So you have to deal with y you know, if it’s

major city like City of LA or if it’s a county like LA County, just depends on the jurisdiction you’re dealing with, you’re gonna be dealing with plan check reviewers and usually a couple different so you have to learn how to build effective relationships. I think what’s helped me the most is being an honest and clear communicator and not really as soon as I sort of know something, bringing it up as things come up, addressing them right away.

Don’t let them fester. and even like some sometimes architects don’t want to communicate everything to a GC or to their plan check reviewer. That they try to play this strategy thinking that it’s gonna work out, they’re gonna get some advantage out of it. I I’ve never found that to be the case. If I’m working with the city right at the start of the project, I’ll do my due diligence. I’ll do all the research, zoning research, building code research.

But I’ll also reach out to someone that in the planning department, the building department, and talk my project through with them. The there’s this old school thinking that they may catch something early and limit your project where you might be able to like

sneak something past them, I guess.

But the only problem with that is once you’ve submitted to them, the clients already paid a lot of your fee, consultant fees, and if where they can’t do the project the way they want, they may have paid anywhere from twenty, fifty, a hundred, hundred you know, more than a hundred and fifty thousand dollars already just in design fees, only to get a no from the jurisdiction. And then as the architect, you have to spin it, well, that’s just a normal cost of the process where

In reality, you probably could have done more to figure out what you couldn’t do up front. So

it it’s developing that early relationship with whoever’s gonna be reviewing and permitting the project. It’s the consultants come on making sure I’m clear with my design if they need information, getting them information right away. I guess a part of that is establish yourself as reliable and that you’re gonna give clear feedback. That that I’m repeating myself a little bit that

the consultant’s GC client can rely on. And from that, trust is developed and that can be a really healthy relationship. And on top of that, obviously just doesn’t want to don’t be a jerk. Like also just try to be kind, right? So from a professional standpoint, what I said prior, and I shouldn’t have to say it, but you never know. Sometimes projects get stressful, maybe the client’s pushing you on a deadline, whatever. Don’t let that, don’t let the pressure of that make you come across as a jerk.

People want to work with other people that are calm, seem reasonable and can engage respectfully. So I know that’s a very basic one, but you’d be surprised how far just being courteous and reliable can take you.

Q Edmonds (18:42)
Absolutely. I totally, totally, totally agree. My had one pet podcast earlier, she had a phrase, she said, We don’t work with jerks. And so he said, Don’t be a jerk, but yeah, I so yeah, but no, absolutely, man. I appreciate it. Hey, listen, Mark, if someone wanted to reach out to you, connect with you, collaborate with you, learn more about what you’re doing, how can they get in contact with you, man?

Mark Nichols (19:07)
Yeah, the best way is through my website and there you can see a good sampling of the different projects I’ve worked on. I work in high-end residential, mixed-use multifamily

Commercials, so I have a diverse background in design. And you can contact me through that website. It’s www.mnicholsdesign.com. You can also find me on Instagram and LinkedIn, and I believe the links to those are included on this podcast info. but I think my Instagram handle is Instagram /mnicholsdesign and that’s spelled M-N-I-C-H-O-L-S.

Design.

Q Edmonds (19:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Mark, before I let you go, is there I just want to make sure that we hit everything. Is there a message that maybe you came in that was on your mind that you wanted to make sure our viewers know?

Mark Nichols (20:02)
Yeah, I’ll get to the shameless plug, I guess, second. First one I would say to any architect wanting to go out on their own and I guess any person who wants to start their own business, try their own thing and be an entrepreneur, find a way that drive that’s in you to want to do that, that’s worth listening to. Don’t be reckless about it, right? it’s a big risk.

But find a way to to dip your toe in the water or find the little steps you need to take that’s gonna make it easier and easier to make the jump. If you’re just right now thinking about doing it but

have anything prepared, it’s gonna seem like a really big jump and that’s gonna be a big wall to to try to get over. But if you can make small incremental steps to prepare yourself, you probably can make it work and I think you’ll be very satisfied that you did. And so listen to that voice that’s that’s pushing you to do that. And then same I apply that to architects, entrepreneurs, whatever. And then the shameless plug for myself is if you’re looking to design a project

You know, mostly targeted towards people new home or remodel or addition. If you want an architect that’s gonna listen to you, always pick up the phone and make sure they execute the best version of your vision with you know the process, rendered video walkthroughs, a very clear idea of the home that you’ll be getting and an open process that lets us iterate as we go, no additional services for changing the design, for tweaking, for getting it just right. Please

My website. let’s have a conversation ’cause I’d love to help you build your dream home.

Q Edmonds (21:39)
Absolutely. Listen. I listen wanna say three things to you, man, sincerely.

Thank you for your time. I’m reiterating this again. Time is our precious commodity. So, sir, thank you for your time. Secondly, thank you for just the gift of telling your story, telling what you do. I believe that plant seeds for people. And we never know when that seed is going to take root, but the seed is there. So thank you for coming, sprinkling some seeds, man. And thank you just for the way you think your mindset and bringing your mindset to this platform. I greatly appreciate you coming on, sir.

Mark Nichols (22:11)
Thank you. I enjoyed the conversation. I it was so one-sided, I didn’t get to have anything about you. can I guess I’ll end with a question back to you. what are you most passionate about in what you do? What’s the thing that brings you most joy in your work?

Q Edmonds (22:26)
Great question. I believe everyone deserves to be seen, known, and heard. So as a podcaster, it brings me great joy when I can set the table for a conversation and allow the person to talk about what they do very best. And so whatever space I’m in, even podcasts or just even in my personal life, is always making sure I create space for a person to be seen, known, and heard. Because with that comes

identifying what your passion is and when you identify comes identity, you know who you are. one of my mentors says when you know who you are, you know what to do. And so for me, if I can make sure people are seen, known, and heard, I think that’s going to take them mighty, mighty far. So I appreciate the question.

Mark Nichols (23:10)
Yeah, well thank you for helping me be seen and heard.

Q Edmonds (23:13)
Absolutely, absolutely. But listen, he’s taking the words out of my mouth. Y’all heard Mr. Mark. Please look into the show notes. His information is there. get in contact with him. Because that wasn’t just a shameless plug. He’s really committed to making sure that your design comes to life. So please get in contact with him. But definitely make sure you’re subscribed here because I’m promising you we’re going to continue to do an amazing.

thing and bring up amazing people just like Mr. Mark. So sir, I say thank you again. And to everyone else, y’all have a fantastic day.