Cash Flow Over Net Worth: How Mandy McAllister Builds Real Estate Freedom

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In this episode of the Real Estate Pros podcast, host Michelle Kesil interviews Mandy McAllister, a multifamily real estate investor and CEO of GoBundance. Mandy shares her journey from a college party conversation that sparked her interest in real estate to her current success in the industry. She discusses the importance of community, overcoming perfectionism, and optimizing cash flow. Mandy also highlights the challenges of expanding her business ventures beyond multifamily properties and her upcoming book, ‘The Forever Money Matrix,’ which aims to help others navigate their financial journeys. The conversation emphasizes the significance of mindset and the value of building supportive networks for women in business.

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Mandy McAllister (00:00)
The thing that I would way rather have than a $100 million net worth is… ⁓

$50,000 coming in every month that is dependable, because that is a lot of breathing room. So the thing that I have optimized for is cash flow above all else, trying to figure out where can I lean into something that is the highest possible cash flow for the lowest amount of work.

Michelle Kesil (01:54)
Hey everybody, welcome to the Real Estate Pros podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Kesil. Today I’m joined by someone I’m looking forward to chatting with, Mandy McAllister, who is a multifamily real estate investor, mindset ninja, and CEO of GoBundance, a community for women. So excited to have you here today, Mandy.

Mandy McAllister (02:17)
excited to be here, Michelle. Thank you for the invitation.

Michelle Kesil (02:20)
Of course, I think our listeners are really going to take something away from how you’re working on creating a community and having success and cash flow in your business. So let’s dive in.

Mandy McAllister (02:32)
Let’s do it.

Michelle Kesil (02:34)
First off, for those who are not yet familiar with you and your work, can you share what your main focus is?

Mandy McAllister (02:41)
So the bulk of my investing is in what I call mid-size multis. 30 to 50 units is my absolute favorite. But since those kind of stopped penciling over the last few years, I’ve also bought a motel and a car wash. And I’ve really leaned into repositioning some of those small multis into midterm furnished rentals.

Michelle Kesil (03:07)
Awesome, and are you operating in specific markets?

Mandy McAllister (03:11)
Yes. So I really believe and when I get a chance to train people, you know, I hear lots of syndicators that are in dozens and dozens and dozens of markets. And that makes me really nervous because I really feel like you can only be an expert if you understand that that rent works on this side of that highway, but it doesn’t work on the other side of the highway. So I really specialize in Indianapolis and a couple of markets in Wisconsin.

Michelle Kesil (03:41)
Awesome. How did you get started as an investor?

Mandy McAllister (03:44)
I was actually 19 years old at a party in college and a friend explained that her dad bought the house that we were standing on the porch of and then she got to rent the rooms to our friends and I thought my god and then you get to keep that money that’s the best idea I’ve ever heard of my whole life so that seed was planted ⁓ at 19 years old but I didn’t do anything with it because you know I think I was trying to learn to be perfect at all the things I did and if

You know, you want to be an investor or an entrepreneur. You got to be willing to embrace failure. So at 35, I started with a fourplex.

Michelle Kesil (04:21)
Yeah, and how did you progress from there?

Mandy McAllister (04:24)
So I did the four and then a six and the six I actually still own a 10 and then a 53 and then a 38 and then a hundred. And at some point I realized that the cashflow from these assets exceeded what it cost me to live my life and was able to leave a medical device sales job in 2021.

Michelle Kesil (04:46)
Awesome. What do you feel are some of the main keys that made the biggest difference in allowing your business to be able to grow and run smoothly?

Mandy McAllister (04:58)
You know, I think,

you know, there’s a Ted Talk and then a subsequent book by the woman who started Girls Who Code called, Girls Are Taught to be Perfect, Boys Are Taught to be Brave, right? And I think that if you’re a high performing woman, you probably grew up as a high performing girl, right? And if you’re so worried to be perfect about, you know, straight A’s and raising your hand and waiting your turn, the need to be perfect was really one of the things that I had to get over.

⁓ in order to go try something new, in order to grow. So a couple of things that helped that, there was a book called The Psychology of Money that talked a lot about you don’t have to be perfect, you have to be reasonable enough. And then, you know, getting around other women who are doing big things.

joining Go Butt and Swim in as a member in 2020 was something that completely changed my life because these women are playing big and that is the whole reason I found the bravery to be able to leave my W-2.

Michelle Kesil (06:45)
Yeah, amazing. And now you’re a CEO of GoBundance. How did you go from a member to the CEO?

Mandy McAllister (06:54)
It was a wild ride, right? A lot of imposter syndrome in there, Michelle, for sure. But, you know, I joined as a member and it changed my life. So I was drinking the Kool-Aid, pounding the tables, doing all of the things, and then had all this space in my life because I found that bravery to leave my W-2, that it had the, we had this opportunity to make it for women, by women in 22. So I jumped at the chance to serve in leadership.

Michelle Kesil (07:24)
Amazing. And can you explain what this community is for those that have never heard of it?

Mandy McAllister (07:29)
Sure, Goldbundance Women is the tribe of healthy, wealthy, generous women who choose to lead epic lives. It’s actually the women’s division of the group that the podcast host from BiggerPockets joined and talked all about that that’s what helped them grow faster. The minute the women’s division opened, I joined as a member.

Michelle Kesil (07:53)
Awesome. And how has this community served you? Maybe as you were a member and now as a CEO, like what has made the biggest difference for you?

Mandy McAllister (08:03)
You know, I think you’re given two arms for a reason. It’s a thing I say a lot. know, two arms, one to pull yourself up, but one to pull other people up with you. You know, there’s these ideas of, yes, striving for the next goal. It’s so important. But once you figure out money to a certain extent, you realize that life is about so much more than just the next comma that you get in your net worth.

So a chance to be next to other women that are growing in these big ways, in their relationships, in their businesses, in their motherhood, all of the things that really matter to us. It’s really neat to watch these women’s progressions and then also get really inspired by the women’s that are nine figure net worth women that I get a chance to grow next to.

Michelle Kesil (08:52)
Yeah, that’s awesome. And how are you growing this community now?

Mandy McAllister (08:57)
We want to grow it, but we want to grow in the right way because it’s a high level mastermind that we’re only as strong as our next member. We only accept people who are accredited investors who are really hungry for what’s next. Understand that it’s not some magic pill that if you take it, then your network grows ⁓ to X or 10X. ⁓ Any women who are really hungry for what’s next and don’t want to

Sacrifice as they scale. We say a lot we want to scale without sacrifice. I want to be the mom that volunteers at my kids school and 10x my business. So those are the women that we serve best.

Michelle Kesil (09:41)
Awesome. And is this connected to investing? Are you helping them in that avenue?

Mandy McAllister (09:42)
I’m

You know, so we one of the pillars that we subscribe to is financial freedom. So, you know, there are tons of conversations that happen around either a scaling your business if you’re a business owner or B investing in real estate, because that’s a really heavy lean because bigger pockets is a big reason that our community grew so fast. And, you know, I’m a hammer who sees nails

right and multifamily is my schtick. So we do have tons of conversations about different plays.

within real estate in different ways to scale various businesses.

Michelle Kesil (10:55)
Amazing. And what are you most focused on solving or scaling to next in your business and your life?

Mandy McAllister (11:05)
Sure, you know, having reached a floor of income, that’s what I call it, I hit enough cash flow coming in every single month that I could live my life on it. It was this big, deep breath, this big freedom, this big opportunity to really start asking myself, what do I want that I had never gotten or I had never thought I had the freedom to ask myself, because I just lived by what I was supposed to do up until then. ⁓ After I hit that floor of income,

things stopped penciling because interest rates spiked. There was a lot of changes, you know, post COVID, all of that jazz. So I bought a car wash business and I bought a motel.

and I’m actually listed for sale on that car wash. We made little bets in each kind of real estate heavy operational business. And we recognize that the motel was something that serves us better, that we’re better at running than we are the car wash. So we’re listed for sale on the car wash and we’re really doubling down and digging into the operations around the motel to make sure that that is as profitable as possible.

Michelle Kesil (12:12)
Amazing. What are some of the challenges that you’ve had as you’ve expanded out of multifamily into more of these niches like the car wash and the motel?

Mandy McAllister (12:13)
Hello?

Girl, man, let me tell you. So you hear all of these business influencers talking about like, just go buy a boring business and peace out to the beach. There is so much involved in owning a car wash. I don’t know if you know that a bill validator from Hamilton is $1,200 to buy on Clean Right Court.

Right? Like all of these things, like something is always broken. Actually, there’s the book that I consider the Bible in terms of buying businesses is by then billed by this guy, Walker Dybul. And I had an opportunity to meet and become friends with Walker. And as I was under contract for this car wash, you know, I’m so proud to tell him, Michelle, that I am, under contract for a business. And he’s like, I never owned a car wash. And I’m like, ⁓ no, why? What’s going on? And he’s like, well, something is always broken.

at a car wash and he’s totally right. Something is always broken at a car wash. So understanding how to deal with those things and actually the reframe that something’s always broken meant that it’s not a five alarm fire every time something breaks, right? So the operational piece and the customer service that exists in an operational business, it’s just, it’s so much more high touch than in long-term or even midterm rentals.

Michelle Kesil (13:41)
Yeah, I can imagine that sounds like a whole nother beast.

Mandy McAllister (13:42)
Yeah.

Yes.

Michelle Kesil (13:49)
So you mentioned that cash flow is something that you’ve had a lot of success in. Can you expand on how you got to that place? ⁓

Mandy McAllister (13:57)
Sure, I optimize cash flow above all else. That is the fuel. In GoBundance, we have this call, we call it seven to eight. And so it’s people who’ve taken a seven figure net worth into an eight figure net worth. And that’s amazing. A $10 million net worth, a $100 million net worth, that is incredible. But

thing that I would way rather have than a $100 million net worth is… ⁓

$50,000 coming in every month that is dependable, because that is a lot of breathing room. So the thing that I have optimized for is cash flow above all else, trying to figure out where can I lean into something that is the highest possible cash flow for the lowest amount of

Actually, I’m in the process of writing a book right now called The Forever Money Matrix.

this idea of whatever you spend your time on, it can be really high stress or it can be really low stress and it can be really high reward or it can be really low reward. So I’m really focusing on that quadrant that is the highest possible cashflow with the lowest possible stress.

Michelle Kesil (14:59)
Yeah. And what are some examples of that?

Mandy McAllister (15:43)
I’ll tell you what it ain’t. It ain’t the car wash. So that is actually part of the reason that we’ve chosen to sell because it lives in the high stress realm. ⁓ honestly, the midterm rentals, when you find the right market for a midterm rental where, know, what.

write this down if you’re interested in midterm rentals. Yes, traveling nurses, traveling professionals are incredibly lucrative to go after those people, but there’s also insurance. People are displaced by problems with their home. There’s also traveling tech professionals. So if you look for a market that has a ton of tech.

coming in. I’ve hosted over the last two years, people who came in from France because they’re working on a project in this small area and they’re not going to rent an apartment and go buy furniture if they’re, you know, coming from France. So their contract basically also pays for them to live. So A, make sure you’re looking for a tech area. B, if it’s a kind of a tertiary hospital market, not your really big like Houston hospital markets, they have no problem finding full-time staff.

but in the really small tertiary markets, ⁓ those are ones that they can’t keep good stuff in. ⁓ So that has been really successful for

Michelle Kesil (17:01)
Yeah, that’s great advice. And what if someone like rebuttals that maybe they don’t have the money right now, but they’re so interested in multifamily and they want to start but like the money is in the way. How would you help them like overcome that?

Mandy McAllister (17:16)
You know, I think that the stock answer from anyone in multifamily is never, I’ve other people’s money. Use other people’s money. No, I don’t agree. I don’t agree. I am a person who walks before she runs.

So what I would tell you is you gotta get a lump of cash in order to then go get into something that is this forever money type thing, this larger multifamily that can be on non-recourse debt. That’s another, my master’s is economics. A big reason I love multifamily is the type of debt.

that you can get on it. I really think that my non-recourse loans are the true asset, not even the cash flowing multifamily. So if you are starting from ground zero, you need to start looking at where you live. Every time I go on vacation, my husband’s like, how many fourplexes are you gonna sell to 22 year old girls?

All of them. I’m going to sell every 22 year old that I see on buying a fourplex and living in one and house hacking because that can really help you, you know, a change your life because what happens if you’re not paying for where you live and then B, you’re going to have a heavier cash flow to move forward on or if you’re not going to do that, can you live in a place and make it nicer and after two years, sell it a live in flip?

so that you can have up to $250,000 tax free for a single person or $500,000 tax free if you’re a married person. So you first got to think about that one time lump of cash or a cashflow that you can get into for very low money.

Michelle Kesil (18:48)
Yeah, amazing. Thanks for sharing that. think that’s helpful because you all yeah, like you said, people have different perspectives. Awesome. What are you most excited for for 2026? Are there any goals or opportunities that you’re working on?

Mandy McAllister (18:57)
Totally.

I think I’m just an excited person in general, Michelle, but the book that I’m writing, The Forever Money Matrix and what’s going to come from that, think it’s just such a simple and elegant idea that I want to get in front of more people. Because if you start climbing a ladder and you can get all the way to the top and recognize that it’s been the wrong wall, the ladder’s against the entire time. So how do you plan?

to get into the type of asset, to get into the type of business and really double down and do the boring work in the middle to get to the end that you want, to make sure that it’s the type of asset that’s gonna serve the life you want. That’s the thing I’m most excited about.

Michelle Kesil (19:49)
Absolutely. And how can someone decipher the asset that would serve their life?

Mandy McAllister (19:55)
⁓ girl, well, you’re just going to have to buy a book. I’ll get you links when it comes out. it’s really just an idea. It’s an XY access, right? Like, proportionally across my portfolio, does it bring me a lot of cash flow or does it bring me a little cash flow? And does it bring me a lot of stress or does it bring me a little stress? And the more you can lean into the things that bring you lesser amount of stress, but also bring you in

heavier amounts of cashflow. Those are the things that are going to open up that time freedom that is the thing that everybody’s chasing. If you are a syndicator, I would argue that you’re, you you have to get on that treadmill and go find another asset so that you can get that acquisition fee. Like if you’re a syndicator, I think that you’ve signed up for another job. You don’t have an asset that’s going to pay you every single month. You’re going have pressure to sell it in five years so you can capture that higher IRR. So really lean into the stuff that you’re going to set up once.

and then it’s going to pay you every single month with those systems so that you’re putting in as little brain space as possible.

Michelle Kesil (20:57)
Yeah, definitely. That’s awesome. And I know that you mentioned that mindset is something that you’re passionate about. How does that work ⁓ when it comes to your businesses?

Mandy McAllister (21:12)
You know, especially starting out, because I think a lot of people who listen to podcasts and, you know, just really consume as much media and books and all of the things as possible, like that getting from zero to one is the problem, right? Like if you are not taking action and getting into the thing, and I’ve already talked about that, you know, my God, I got to be perfect.

problem that I had ⁓ up until my 30s, right? Like I really think that there is an easy way. There’s always a little reframe, a little tweak to figure out a way that whatever your thought is can serve you, right? Like ⁓ as an example, as a female multifamily investor, I could either think, my God, I’m the only girl in the room. I couldn’t possibly do anything. It’s just me. I’m the only girl. Or I could choose to think, wait.

I get an opportunity to speak way more than dudes equally as smart as me because I look different. What an opportunity. It’s the exact same circumstance and a little reframe. So I’m going to challenge anybody who’s listening that has something in their way. What is the biggest obstacle you’ve got? And if you could make up a story around it to kind of pivot it in a very small way that would serve you, that’s going to change your life.

Michelle Kesil (22:30)
Absolutely. I love that perspective. Thanks so much.

Mandy McAllister (22:34)
My pleasure.

Michelle Kesil (22:36)
Awesome. Well, before we wrap up here, if someone wants to reach out, connect, learn more, where can people find you and connect with you?

Mandy McAllister (22:46)
So mandymcallister.com

gets you to my website that links you to all of my socials, links you to GoBundanceWomen, links you to a lot of things including the financial freedom calculator, so you gotta know your numbers. That’s where I have everybody start.

Michelle Kesil (23:01)
Perfect. Well, I appreciate your time, your story, your perspective. Thanks for being here.

Mandy McAllister (23:07)
So fun. Thank you, Michelle.

Michelle Kesil (23:09)
Of course. And for the listeners that are tuning in, if you got value, make sure you’ve subscribed. We’ve got more conversations with operators like Mandy who are building real businesses and we will see you on the next episode.

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Cash Flow Over Net Worth: How Mandy McAllister Builds Real Estate Freedom

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